Help! What do I do When Passion Conflicts with Obedience

Dynasty101

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Most people have a life passion. Some cause that puts fire in their veins. Mine is educating people on the immense cruelty that takes place in the food, research, and entertainment industries involving animals. I believe that animals are individuals with emotions and personalities and am fighting to protect them from being forced to forfeit their much wanted lives to human whims (a vegan world is possible in my opinion). Lately, however, I have discovered that the Bible does not support such claims. Because humans are created in the image of God they have the ability to trump even the most basic and longed for animal desires. I have trouble supporting this, and feel trapped by the situation. I feel that God wants my full obedience and is convicting me of my choice to support an unbiblical principle. However, I can't being bring myself to simply support animal welfare and make conditions better for animals, earn their trust, and then just have them killed. I've known too many animals personally to support this view. I'm beginning to feel that time is running out and that I'm simply going to succumb to God's point of view because I really don't see any other option. The seeds of doubt are beginning to take hold, but I'm still fighting to do what's best for animals.
 

Serving Zion

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Lately, however, I have discovered that the Bible does not support such claims. Because humans are created in the image of God they have the ability to trump even the most basic and longed for animal desires.
Hi Dynasty, I would like to help you with this, because I love animals too. Are you able to show me the passages in the bible that are causing you to view God as someone that does not fully support your heart toward animal welfare?
 
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Sarah G

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I have experienced a similar conflict with ideology I am passionate about. I came to understand that I cannot serve two masters. I need to put my own spiritual growth first in everything. Spending my time informing others of their flawed (in my opinion) position or actions is not my job. My job is to come closer to God and know that His hand is at work in everything. When people come to Jesus and are filled with the Holy Spirit they will reform their behaviour and refrain from acts of cruelty. The Holy Spirit convicts people, I am not the Holy Spirit therefore it is not my job to go around convicting people or pricking at their conscience. That is my current position on such matters, subject to change as I develop in spiritual life by serving Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Tolworth John

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I have discovered that the Bible does not support such claims. Because humans are created in the image of God they have the ability to trump even the most basic and longed for animal desires.

The bible charges man with caring for creation. It means that animals can be used for working, but that they have to be cared for.
How they are cared for brings in cultral values and assumptions.
Please continue to fight for better protection/conditions for animals, without Christians and Christian morality involved all that is left to support animal rights is evolution.

That is being used to support late term abortion, intfantcide, uthanasia and mean animals don't need rights its al about cost.

So carry on.
 
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Kit Sigmon

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The Bible supports good treatment /and gives consideration to animals...
Deuteronomy 25:4
Exodus 20:10
Exodus 23:5
Numbers 22:32
Hosea 2:18
Luke 14:5
Proverbs 12:10


Having dominion or rule over the earth and animal doesn't mean mistreating/
being cruel.

There be distinction between human and animal...1 Corinthians 15:39.


We aren't to worship/an or make an idol out of animals or anything else in creation either...Romans 1:25, Colossians 2:18

We are to be the Lord's Ambassadors who share the gospel, make disciples,
uphold biblical teachings and so on and so forth.
Many of us ambassadors also be caring for and providing for animals.
...we also know there must be balance, so we don't go overboard and elevate
animals over people... or God.
 
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Dynasty101

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I thank you all for the advice. My concerns and fear stems from several passages in the bible that describe or show the treatment of animals: Matthew 10:13, Genesis 9:36, and Matthew 8:32. I just find myself a little skeptical. God desires and works towards making all christians into the image of Christ, and it worries me to think that I might forgo helping suffering animals to speak more on how humanity has been given a right to use animals as a means to their own pleasure, and disregard how animals desire their own lives. I could be wrong, but it is far better to be safe than sorry (or worst, to forget that you had anything to be sorry about in the first place.) It really worries me that animals might not go to heaven (Isaiah 31:3) and that all of the damage being done to them is permanent.
 
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Sarah G

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Having read the posts here I think you should disregard my previous post entirely. Animals cannot speak for themselves and they are innocent (and adorable!). I can't see that there is any detriment to your spiritual life in standing up for animal rights.
 
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GandalfTheWise

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Most people have a life passion. Some cause that puts fire in their veins. Mine is educating people on the immense cruelty that takes place in the food, research, and entertainment industries involving animals. I believe that animals are individuals with emotions and personalities and am fighting to protect them from being forced to forfeit their much wanted lives to human whims (a vegan world is possible in my opinion). Lately, however, I have discovered that the Bible does not support such claims. Because humans are created in the image of God they have the ability to trump even the most basic and longed for animal desires. I have trouble supporting this, and feel trapped by the situation. I feel that God wants my full obedience and is convicting me of my choice to support an unbiblical principle. However, I can't being bring myself to simply support animal welfare and make conditions better for animals, earn their trust, and then just have them killed. I've known too many animals personally to support this view. I'm beginning to feel that time is running out and that I'm simply going to succumb to God's point of view because I really don't see any other option. The seeds of doubt are beginning to take hold, but I'm still fighting to do what's best for animals.

The one question I would ask is this. Who did God make you to be? I'm not asking what does God want you to do? I'm asking who is that person God created you to be? I think that this is something much larger and more important than a particular cause. If we primarily identify ourselves by an external cause (no matter how noble), I think we run the risk of losing sight of who God wants us to be. We run the risk of wrapping much of our identity into that cause and by how much success or failure we achieve in that cause. We run the risk of starting to view other people and other Christians by whether or not they support the cause. We run the risk of letting anger and frustration and bitterness become the hallmark of our lives as we fight for something. I'm not saying or implying that you are like that right now. It's just been my observation over a few decades of observing people is that some people become spiritually healthy world-changers that accomplish a lot over their lives in a loving passionate manner that glorifies God whereas other people slowly become bitter advocates that attack anyone not supporting them as they become obsessed with their cause. Both types of people can move the needle socially, but it's like building a house with a foundation on rock or on sand. I think key to this is having our identities rooted in Christ rather than a cause that we have strong emotions about.

My sense of scripture is that stewardship and animal welfare seem to be consistent with each other. And I do think it is much more scriptural to think of stewardship of the earth rather than short-term exploitation as the Christian position. Animal rights is different than animal welfare as you noted. I cannot find a directly compelling scriptural case for animal rights.

The question of the place of animals in Christian thinking is a challenge for me. I grew up on dairy farm where every cow was an individual that had its own name. My dad never really made much money because he didn't treat the cows as a commodity and get rid of them as soon as their milk production dropped. I grew up taking care of calves. I was a sensitive kid and cried a few times when they died. But in contrast, how many gnus were eaten by lions today? How many rabbits were eaten by coyotes or foxes? There is a vast system of predators and prey in the world where many prey die cruelly every day or die slowly of starvation. Do we shoot all the lions to prevent them from killing and eating other animals? Or do we cage up all the lions and only feed them animals that die of old age? I'd certainly like to see my current dog in heaven. He's a faithful gentle soul (and a great therapy dog) that will go sit with people when he senses they are feeling bad. These are all things that are not clearly addressed by scripture that we are left to trust God that He'll do it in a good manner.
 
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Serving Zion

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But in contrast, how many gnus were eaten by lions today? How many rabbits were eaten by coyotes or foxes? There is a vast system of predators and prey in the world where many prey die cruelly every day or die slowly of starvation.
It doesn't need to be that way (Isaiah 11:6-9, Romans 8:18-22).
Do we shoot all the lions to prevent them from killing and eating other animals? Or do we cage up all the lions and only feed them animals that die of old age?
That isn't God's desire, nor His way. God's way is that the world becomes full of the knowledge of His love and there becomes peace through the fact that everyone is living in a holy manner. I know this in my own home: all the creatures have such peace, neither the spiders nor the sparrows are afraid and my cat thinks no harm.

Unfortunately, in our present age, the concept of God/Christianity is that everyone needs to believe this and that or they will go to hell, but they never look at what they can do to make life more of paradise in the here and now.

But, there is more power coming upon these ones to stand for what is good and right - praise God!

I thank you all for the advice. My concerns and fear stems from several passages in the bible that describe or show the treatment of animals: Matthew 10:13, Genesis 9:36, and Matthew 8:32. I just find myself a little skeptical.
Hi Dynasty, could you please check these passages? It seems like the locations might not be quite accurate for what you had in mind. Thank you, I do have a useful thought for the Isaiah 31:3, that I will share with you soon :) Keep doing good meanwhile! :oldthumbsup:
 
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It is not wrong to wish to avoid unnecessary cruelty towards animals. But I don't think the secular animal rights movement should be accepted uncritically.

You are free to follow your conscience on this matter, but do not judge others who disagree with you.
 
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Dynasty101

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Sorry about some of the scripture references, I was typing that post out on a cellphone. It's supposed to be Genesis 9:3-6 and the verse in Matthew that speaks about humanity's worth and the worth of a sparrow.

In the end I'm beginning to find that it is probably better for me to just trust God with this issue. It's certainly not unbiblical to care for animals. I was just worried that committing to follow whatever the bible has to say about animals would come to have horrific consequences. For example, if I agree that it is alright to test on animals then I am really saying that it is fine to test on one of my own dogs, because there really is not a difference. Another fear is the possibility that I would begin to see animals in a different light: no matter how kind, deserving, or loyal an animal is, humanity is ultimately more deserving than they simply because of our humanity.
 
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Serving Zion

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In the end I'm beginning to find that it is probably better for me to just trust God with this issue. It's certainly not unbiblical to care for animals.
Agreed! :oldthumbsup:


I was just worried that committing to follow whatever the bible has to say about animals would come to have horrific consequences. For example, if I agree that it is alright to test on animals then I am really saying that it is fine to test on one of my own dogs, because there really is not a difference.
It could never be OK to do that according to the scriptures and what you already know about them (Individuals with emotions and personalities - Matthew 7:12).
Another fear is the possibility that I would begin to see animals in a different light: no matter how kind, deserving, or loyal an animal is, humanity is ultimately more deserving than they simply because of our humanity.
In a culture that has developed virtuous morals, there should never be such a routine situation where preference need be given to an animal or a human; but we must say that if such case does occur, the human certainly does have more legal protection (according to present law). But I would never say it is because they "deserve" it for being human - Romans 3:23, Luke 12:47-48.

Keep pressing forward! (Luke 16:16) .. You know deep inside what love is and what it is not, and you don't need to go under the yoke of the wrong ones (Isaiah 5:20). Your faith is between yourself and God and He is with the ones who do what is right in His name! (Matthew 5:20, Matthew 21:43-44) :wave:

 
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GandalfTheWise

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This image puts it all into context for me.
IMG_20170812_183456268-small.jpg

This is our grand daughter hugging our dog. He's highly intelligent, calm, and quite gregarious. Definite working instincts. Hook him up to a cart and he is all business with a tail happily wagging. He wanted to be occupied doing something so we kept teaching him trick after trick. He enjoys being with one of us. Whenever one of us isn't feeling well, he seems to sense it and stays near. We figure his vocabulary is pushing 50 to 60 words some of which we have to spell (e.g. d-o-g p-a-r-k).

He's a therapy dog. He loves meeting people. Whenever something seems out of the ordinary, he wants to investigate and help. One weekend we spent in a hospital waiting room on a family matter, he'd hop up every time someone with a wheelchair or walker came by. By Sunday afternoon, he was exhausted on the floor. But every time someone looked at him, he'd hop up tailing wagging to meet them for about 30 seconds and then plop down next to them. There are several dozen people that he seems to remember because he gets excited and then acts in a particular manner. In one of the senior centers he visits, one lady was out in the hospital for awhile. He sniffed at her usual chair and then tried to pull my wife down toward her room to find her. One older man who petted him a lot had a stroke and lost some vision. He went up to his wheelchair and started nuzzling his hand.

He's the first dog I've seen that actually uses mirrors and does not bark at them. We stayed in a hotel with a floor length mirror when he was a puppy. He mostly ignored it, until he saw me looking at him in it. I then alternated looking directly at him and in the mirror and he kept following the eye contact. We have a few decorative mirrors by our back door. He alternates between looking out the door window and over at the mirror (which gives a different view of the outside) when he knows someone is outside. He sometimes watches parts of nature shows on TV.

He likes to go sit out on our patio, watch the world go by, and take naps. He has no prey drive to speak of and just enjoys watching squirrels and rabbits. I didn't get a picture of it, but one day he was near by the patio fence watching a rabbit about 10 feet away eating clover. They were just looking at each other.

I could go on and on, but I think this makes the point. This is one special dog that has become a big part of our family. It saddens us to see the gray hair starting to come in and realize he's probably over halfway through his life.

This picture is our grand daughter hugging the "puppy". If I had to make the call, I'd sacrifice him in an instant to save her. He's a magnificent noble soul that is a big part of our lives. But for me, my grand daughter is simply that much more valuable.
 
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Dynasty101

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This image puts it all into context for me.
View attachment 204923
This is our grand daughter hugging our dog. He's highly intelligent, calm, and quite gregarious. Definite working instincts. Hook him up to a cart and he is all business with a tail happily wagging. He wanted to be occupied doing something so we kept teaching him trick after trick. He enjoys being with one of us. Whenever one of us isn't feeling well, he seems to sense it and stays near. We figure his vocabulary is pushing 50 to 60 words some of which we have to spell (e.g. d-o-g p-a-r-k).

He's a therapy dog. He loves meeting people. Whenever something seems out of the ordinary, he wants to investigate and help. One weekend we spent in a hospital waiting room on a family matter, he'd hop up every time someone with a wheelchair or walker came by. By Sunday afternoon, he was exhausted on the floor. But every time someone looked at him, he'd hop up tailing wagging to meet them for about 30 seconds and then plop down next to them. There are several dozen people that he seems to remember because he gets excited and then acts in a particular manner. In one of the senior centers he visits, one lady was out in the hospital for awhile. He sniffed at her usual chair and then tried to pull my wife down toward her room to find her. One older man who petted him a lot had a stroke and lost some vision. He went up to his wheelchair and started nuzzling his hand.

He's the first dog I've seen that actually uses mirrors and does not bark at them. We stayed in a hotel with a floor length mirror when he was a puppy. He mostly ignored it, until he saw me looking at him in it. I then alternated looking directly at him and in the mirror and he kept following the eye contact. We have a few decorative mirrors by our back door. He alternates between looking out the door window and over at the mirror (which gives a different view of the outside) when he knows someone is outside. He sometimes watches parts of nature shows on TV.

He likes to go sit out on our patio, watch the world go by, and take naps. He has no prey drive to speak of and just enjoys watching squirrels and rabbits. I didn't get a picture of it, but one day he was near by the patio fence watching a rabbit about 10 feet away eating clover. They were just looking at each other.

I could go on and on, but I think this makes the point. This is one special dog that has become a big part of our family. It saddens us to see the gray hair starting to come in and realize he's probably over halfway through his life.

This picture is our grand daughter hugging the "puppy". If I had to make the call, I'd sacrifice him in an instant to save her. He's a magnificent noble soul that is a big part of our lives. But for me, my grand daughter is simply that much more valuable.
I respect your position, Gandalf, but I cannot say that say that I agree with you (I'm not saying that I don't view your granddaughter as a previous soul). My opinion has been shown throughout the ages in history when people would likely sacrifice an innocent, goodhearted poor person for the sake of the rich, or a benevolent person of a different skin color for the sake of a person of a more accepted race. This way of thinking does not make any sense to me. If a pig sees that I am severely ill and runs to get me help, would I then slaughter them to feed my hungry child? There is definitely an Us vs. Them mentality at play here, and it is definitely a danger to "them".
 
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Serving Zion

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Dear Heavenly Father, I just see that our sister here has such a tender heart and that she is being hurt so much by the selfish, harmful taunts of the arrogant ones. Heavenly Father, I just thank you Lord for having brought sister Dynasty here for me to see - there is hope for humanity when there is beautiful souls like this who hunger and thirst for righteousness. Lord, please grant some relief to our sister Dynasty for the way her frustration consumes her.. lead her to a new attitude that empowers her to convict and humble the wrong ones in her presence while guarding her from the torment of being forced to see injustice by those who use their position of power to do harm, and who casually lie in order to deceive themselves and bystanders to think well of their character. Father God, make those wrong ones be ashamed of themselves in the presence of your holy ones, so that life becomes unbearable for them until they repent and do good. We pray this so that earth may again rejoice in life, and give thanks to you as it was purposed to do. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

Sister Dynasty, I just see that you're being beaten up by those who make fun of vegans. I knew a girl who was treated this way on a Facebook group too. It's not that you're wrong or that they are stronger in numbers, but (if you may graciously permit me to say) that you are coming from a position of weakness when you speak. Whereas I am vegetarian too and I don't get treated that way.

Everyone knows I am vegetarian and when they eat meat in my presence or even talk about it, there is a natural shame in them.. why? Because in my heart I hold severe condemnation for such irreverent regard for life, and yet I do not express it as a personal judgement. They dare not provoke me to speak words to that effect, because they recognise that there is a ferocious potential and they would not like that. So there is conviction for meat eaters around me, but there is no opportunity to condescend me because I am not making a judgement against them that they do not accept. Their conscience already condemns them and because I do not contradict their conscience nor encroach on their freedom, they tend to look at the floor instead of looking me in the eye on the matter.

But we still need to love them too. Meat is actually very hard for them to give up, and they just do not have a concept of how immoral it is because society has trained them to think it is normal! .. and if we do not love the sinner, then we actually push them away and affix them in their error. At least through our strength of perseverance there is conviction and a good example, and an occasional opportunity for them to really hear us with respect and in that way (even if it is only a word or two) there is an opportunity for them to understand their error :angel::angel::angel:

Anyhow, it is something more to consider, and an attitude of support for you that hopefully you have found encouraging! .. Welcome to CF :wave: I hope you will prosper and enjoy being part of the community and sharing more of the goodness that is in your heart, to represent Jesus Christ in a righteous way!
 
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