COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

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Doveaman

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I am not sure if we are just writing at different times but did you not see post 114 above?

The Holy days you references from Col 2 is talking about the same context and reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days in the book of Leviticus chapter 23 called Holy convocations. Did you know that the reference to Holy Days was in fact referring to other days listed on the Jewish calendar? These days were not weekly Sabbath days. I will write some more on this latter as I am a little busy right now. But no the reference to Holy day is NOT referring to the annual Sabbath days. The "sabbath day(s) plural is in v16. This is referring to the annual Sabbaths and anything connected with the annual feast days including the High Sabbath days referred to in John 19:31. The Holy days in Col 2 are a reference to "Holy convocations" in relation to the different annual feasts of Leviticus which could fall on any day of the week. So is not referring to the weekly Sabbath.
This is why it is confusing.

You say the "holyday" is a reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days, and then you say the "sabbath days" is referring to the annual Sabbaths and anything connected with the annual feast days. :confused:

You are in effect saying that the "holyday" and the "sabbath days" are the same annual Jewish Festivals or feast days, which is not the case.

You are trying to make a distinction between the two without actually making a distinction between the two.

And that's what makes it so confusing. :(
 
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LoveGodsWord

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This is why it is so confusing. You say the "holyday" is a reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days, and then you say the "sabbath days" is referring to the annual Sabbaths and anything connected with the annual feast days.
You are in effect saying that the "holyday" and the "sabbath days" are the same annual Jewish Festivals or feast days, which is not the case. You are trying to make a distinction between the two without actually making a distinction between the two. And that's what makes it so confusing.

I see where you are confused. You are confused with this statement

"The Holy days you referenced from Col 2 is talking about the same context and reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days"

The "context" is the Jewish annual festivals I am really not sure why you are confused about that? I am not saying in that statement that the Holy days and the annual Sabbath(s) are the same thing. Only that the "context" of Col 2 is referring to the Jewish Festivals and the ceremonial laws of Moses in Lev 23.

Hope that helps your confusion

In Christ Always!
 
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stuart lawrence

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This is why it is confusing.

You say the "holyday" is a reference to special annual Jewish Festivals holy days, and then you say the "sabbath days" is referring to the annual Sabbaths and anything connected with the annual feast days. :confused:

You are in effect saying that the "holyday" and the "sabbath days" are the same annual Jewish Festivals or feast days, which is not the case.

You are trying to make a distinction between the two without actually making a distinction between the two.

And that's what makes it so confusing. :(
You have to remember something:

Thou shalt not admit to error

Is the first and most important commandment for many on these websites.
So no matter how clearly you have made your point( and you have), it must be opposed by any means, even if the opposition to it lacks credibility.

IE

I was told rom 14:5 refers to feast days, though feast days are not mentioned in any of the surrounding verses!!
 
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stuart lawrence

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A good example of the greatest commandment for many is.
If you chat to SDA and quote Paul:

As one who is in the Lord Jesus I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean then for him it is unclean
Rom14:14

ALL food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble
Verse20

SDA often tell you the above only refers to vegetables:)

So verse 14 should read:
As one who is in the Lord Jesus I am fully convinced that all vegetables are clean.

Well any Jew outside of the Lord Jesus would be fully convinced of that!!!!

And verse 20 should be read as:
All vegetables are clean. But it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes another to stumble.

How can eating vegetables cause someone else to stumble??

Have fun debating these things, but always bear in mind, any response will be given, however far-fetched it is, rather than an admittance of error. And this from people who say:
The only thing that matters is Gods word( when that word suits them)
 
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stuart lawrence

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Some say they don't believe you are justified by obeying the law.
But if you love Jesus you will obey the TC. So if you don't obey them you can't be saved, for you prove you don't love Jesus.
And they reason( somehow) that in the real world that is not justification of observing the law. Thankfully the majority of SDA just plainly admit justification for heaven is obeying the TC in their view, rather than try and go all round the houses to deflect from that.

The TC are an inflexible law. There is no pass mark of obedience to them that can entitle you to enter heaven. Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them. There is nothing of mercy and forgiveness written in those commands.
The bible terms the TC the letter that kills, the ministry of death and condemnation. So when people tell you:
You must obey the TC

they are preaching what they do not practice.
Even to stress: you must obey the TC is to fail to understand the NC. The law is within you, it is not an external law written on tablets of stone, but an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. It is part of a believers DNA, in their heart and mind.
So I'm afraid to continually repeat:
You must obey the TC
shows a christianity that is nowhere near where it should be, to put it mildly. It is like a light bulb only dimly lighting a room, it is not fully turned on to bring forth true light
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You have to remember something:
Thou shalt not admit to error; Is the first and most important commandment for many on these websites.
So no matter how clearly you have made your point( and you have), it must be opposed by any means, even if the opposition to it lacks credibility. I was told rom 14:5 refers to feast days, though feast days are not mentioned in any of the surrounding verses!!

Hello Stuart,

How are you today my friend? What error has been made? Please by all means prove with scripture that Romans 14 is talking about God's 7th Day Sabbath. The only references to food, fasting and Holy days given in God's Word is in reference to the Jewish annual feast days. We no longer need to keep them now because they all pointed to Jesus and were part of the laws of Moses in the Old Covenant.

If you believe that this is referring to God's 7th Day Sabbath commandment then prove it with scripture and make your case. Read the OP of the thread you will see what I am talking about is correct. If you have anything to talk about on the OP I am happy to talk with you further. If not then go make another topic somewhere. You haven't made a case for anything that you have said here in this thread. No one is telling you that you must keep the God's Law to be saved. Only you are saying this to make an argument that is not there. Wish you well :D

In Christ Always
 
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stuart lawrence

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Hello Stuart,

How are you today my friend? What error has been made? Please by all means prove with scripture that Romans 14 is talking about God's 7th Day Sabbath. The only references to food, fasting and Holy days given in God's Word is in reference to the Jewish annual feast days. We no longer need to keep them now because they all pointed to Jesus and were part of the laws of Moses in the Old Covenant.

If you believe that this is referring to God's 7th Day Sabbath commandment then prove it with scripture and make your case. Read the OP of the thread you will see what I am talking about is correct. If you have anything to talk about on the OP I am happy to talk with you further. If not then go make another topic somewhere. You haven't made a case for anything that you have said here in this thread. No one is telling you that you must keep the God's Law to be saved. Only you are saying this to make an argument that is not there. Wish you well :D

In Christ Always
I see you have not been able to supply even one verse of scripture from the entire new testament/ covenant that states gentile converts are required to observe a specific Saturday sabbath. So from the NC p oint of view, you have no scripture at all do you.
As rom ch14 does not mention feast days, and other places do, it is obvious feast days are not being referred to.
As feast days are not mentioned in rom ch14 there is nothing to prove, it is already very plain.
As for you obeying Gods laws to be justified/ righteous, that is already shown to be true

But you carry-on without scriptural support. I will stick with the Bible where the NC is concerned
 
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stuart lawrence

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But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code
Rom7:6

Now how is the above compatible with relentlessly stating:
You must obey the TC.
It isn't is it.

Let's look at the ops belief a bit more closely.
If you love God you will obey the TC. If you don't obey them it proves you don't love God and are unsaved.
Well he is really saying, in order to prove you love God you must obey the letter that the Bible says kills.
So does the op, and SDA members ever have any Impure thoughts? If they do they are not obeying the TC, therefore they must be unsaved in their view for it shows they don't love God. And I know many SDA members who have plenty of impure thoughts!
The second greatest commandment supercedes nine of the TC. And according to that commandment you must love your neighbour as yourself. And Jesus told us what loving others entails. Love your enemies. Therefore you must love those who malign, persecute or mistreat you.
Do the op and SDA. Members faultlessly love people who treat them as described? If they don't, according to their doctrine it proves they don't love God and cannot therefore be saved.

Jesus said:

The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you
Matt7:2

People who glibly QUOTE partial scripture without taking into account the full demands of what they quote should be very careful indeed
 
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stuart lawrence

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I have seen many people, who attend church on Saturday or Sunday state:
You must obey the TC

And the result is always the same.
Among SDA members that I have known, this means, as long as they attend church on a Saturday, don't steal, murder, or commit the physical act of adultery, alongside tithing their money, avoiding the Levitical unclean foods, using foul language or smoking, or drinking they have done enough to be justified for heaven, or to prove their love for God in order to attain to heaven.
Amongst Sunday parishioners it is mostly the same, apart from avoiding the Levitical unclean foods and which day they attend church.
It amazes me, the Pharisees of Jesus day could have passed all those tests with flying colours.
And I have noticed, the more in earnest people are that you must obey the TC in order to attain heaven/ prove you love Jesus so you may attain heaven, the less the higher points of the law according to Christ are reflected in their lives.
Basically, the law of God gets dumbed down from the pristine level it is set at, to a place people believe they can obey it to be justified before God, either directly, or through proving their love for God so they may be saved
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi Friend,

Some friendly comments for you below all from God's Word
As rom ch14 does not mention feast days, and other places do, it is obvious feast days are not being referred to.

Stuart you do know you are just making an argument that defeats your own argument right? You say because the word "feast" is not used in Rom 14 therefore it cannot be referring to feast day. Now using your same logic I can say to you where does it say in Rom 14 that the day is referring to God's 7th Day Sabbath? There is no mention of it so you have defeated your own argument. o_O

Now if you look at all the scripture in the Old and New Testament nearly every scripture that is referring to food, drink and holy days is in reference to Lev 23 which is talking about the annual Jewish festivals. If you read the OP in this thread you will learn something. I am only sharing nothing but scripture with you. You on the other hand only share your opinion. We must believe God's Word over the opinion of man (Acts 5:29)
I see you have not been able to supply even one verse of scripture from the entire new testament/ covenant that states gentile converts are required to observe a specific Saturday sabbath.
Stuart, did you know that all the New Testament come from the Old Testament? Now if the New Testament comes from the Old Testament then how can you say that the Old Testament does not apply to the New? You contradict the teachings of scripture. Man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4) All scripture is given by inspiration of God is is profitable for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2Ti 3:16). Why would God need to give His Law again in the New Testament when He already gave it in the Old Testament to His people?

Since you are restricting my answer to only the New Testament (which is not biblical as shown above, but I will indulge you) your question should rather be; What does the New Testament say about God's Law (10 commandments) and the 7th Day Sabbath? Is God's Law (10 commandments) spoken about in the New Testament? If it is then it includes the 7th Day Sabbath as this is one of the 10 commandments spoken by God himself as a memorial of creation (Ex 20:8-11)

Jesus is our example (John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22 )

Did Jesus and the Apostles keep the Sabbath?

(1) Jesus taught us that the Sabbath was made for mankind (Mark 2:27).
(2) Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and that this is the Lord's Day (Mark 2:28).
(3) Jesus taught us that it is ok to enjoy the Sabbath and to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56).
(4) The apostles kept the 7th Day Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

What does the New Testament say about God's Law (10 commandments)?

* God's commandments are Holy, Just and Good (Rom 7:12)
* If we break one of God's 10 commandments we are guilty of sin (James 2:8-12)
* God's 10 commandments give a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20)
* Sin is breaking any of God's 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
* The penalty of known and willful sin is death (Rom 6:23)
* Those that know God keep his commandments (1 John 2:3)
* If you say you know God and do not keep His commandments you are a liar (1 John 2:4)
* God's true followers keep them (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:2-3; Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14)
* If we love Jesus we will keep them (John 14:15)
* If we keep them we will abide in God's Love (John 15:10)
* We can break God's commandments by keeping man made traditions we are not following God (Mark 7:3-13; Matt 15:3-9)

Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man over the Word of God that has no basis in God's Word
If you knowingly and willfully break God's Law you commit sin because sin is the transgression of God's Law. If we break one commandment we stand before God as guilty of breaking all. If we do not seek God in repentance we are in danger of the Judgment (Heb 10:26-27). Who do we believe and follow God or man? I love Jesus so I choose to follow God's Word. Do you love Jesus Stuart? One of the many questions I ask you that you never answer.

Ok Good night my time friend, If you want to chat further lets discuss the OP? So far you seem to be very side tracked with some agenda that I do not understand. What is clear to me however is that you do not know God's Word otherwise you would share it.

In Christ Always!
 
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stuart lawrence

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Hi Friend,



Stuart you do know you are just making an argument that defeats your own argument right? You say because the word "feast" is not used in Rom 14 therefore it cannot be referring to feast day. Now using your same logic I can say to you where does it say in Rom 14 that the day is referring to God's 7th Day Sabbath? There is no mention of it so you have defeated your own argument. o_O

Now if you look at all the scripture in the Old and New Testament nearly every scripture that is referring to food, drink and holy days is in reference to Lev 23 which is talking about the annual Jewish festivals. If you read the OP in this thread you will learn something. I am only sharing nothing but scripture with you. You on the other hand only share your opinion. We must believe God's Word over the opinion of man (Acts 5:29)



Stuart, did you know that all the New Testament come from the Old Testament? Now if the New Testament comes from the Old Testament then how can you say that the Old Testament does not apply to the New? You contradict the teachings of scripture. Man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4) All scripture is given by inspiration of God is is profitable for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2Ti 3:16. Why would God need to give His Law again in the New Testament when He already gave it in the Old.

Since you are restricting my answer to only the New Testament (which is not biblical as shown above, but I will indulge you) your question should rather be; What does the New Testament say about God's Law (10 commandments) and the 7th Day Sabbath? Is God's Law (10 commandments) spoken about in the New Testament? If it is then it includes the 7th Day Sabbath as this is one of the 10 commandments spoken by God himself as a memorial of creation (Ex 20:8-11)

What does the New Testament say about God's Law (10 commandments)?

* God's commandments are Holy, Just and Good (Rom 7:12)
* If we break one of God's 10 commandments we are guilty of sin (James 2:8-12)
* God's 10 commandments give a knowledge of what sin is (Rom 3:20)
* Sin is breaking any of God's 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
* The penalty of known and willful sin is death (Rom 6:23)
* Those that know God keep his commandments (1 John 2:3)
* If you say you know God and do not keep His commandments you are a liar (1 John 2:4)
* God's true followers keep them (1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:2-3; Rev 14:12; Rev 22:14)
* If we love Jesus we will keep them (John 14:15)
* If we keep them we will abide in God's Love (John 15:10)
* We can break God's commandments by keeping man made traditions we are not following God (Mark 7:3-13; Matt 15:3-9)

Jesus is our example (John 2:6; Matt 16:24; 1 Cor 11:1; Eph 5:1-21; Pet 2:20-22 )

Did Jesus and the Apostles keep the Sabbath?

(1) Jesus taught us that the Sabbath was made for mankind (Mark 2:27).
(2) Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and that this is the Lord's Day (Mark 2:28).
(3) Jesus taught us that it is ok to enjoy the Sabbath and to do good on the Sabbath (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56).
(4) The apostles kept the 7th Day Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

Sunday Worship is a teaching and tradition of man over the Word of God that has no basis in God's Word
If you knowingly and willfully break God's Law you commit sin because sin is the transgression of God's Law. If we break one commandment we stand before God as guilty of breaking all. If we do not seek God in repentance we are in danger of the Judgment (Heb 10:26-27). Who do we believe and follow God or man? I love Jesus so I choose to follow God's Word. Do you love Jesus Stuart? One of the many questions I ask you that you never answer.

Ok Good night my time friend, If you want to chat further lets discuss the OP? So far you seem to be very side tracked with some agenda that I do not understand. What is clear to me however is that you do not know God's Word otherwise you would share it.

In Christ Always!
I'm afraid, as you have no scripture from the new testament/ covenant to support your view that gentile converts must observe a specific Saturday sabbath there isn't really anything to discuss is there.
I gave you scripture, as requested from the NC, you have supplied none.
Of course you had to try and insert what was not written into the verse to try and support your errant demands, that is understandable I guess.
If you find, even one verse from the new testament to support your position, I would of course then debate this subject further with you.
God bless
 
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LoveGodsWord

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One man considers one day more sacred/ holy than another. Another man considers everyday alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind Rom14:5 Nothing mentioned about feast days!

Nothing mentioned of the 7th Day Sabbath too :D I Have provided you with plenty of Scripture above but you close your eyes to it because you want to follow your traditions. Good night my friend.
 
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Good morning Friend (my time):D

I will not reply to your posts that are off topic now and you seem to have made a lot of them with accusations over night when I was sleeping. Please I am not interested in your opinions and arguing with you. I have just made a thread to talk about the OP. If you would like to start another thread with any of your opinions then I am happy to comment and share the Word of God with you there but will no longer do so here as much of what you have to share is your own personal opinion, off topic and not scriptural. I am replying to this post because you have mentioned Col 2 but have not read the OP. So I encourage you to read all of it. I think you will get a blessing from reading it. Once you have read it share your thoughts from God's Word. If you do not believe it tell us why you do not believe it from God's Word. Our opinions do not matter. Only God's Word is true. (Acts 5:29)

In Christ Always!
How is my post off topic? Is it because I posted something you don't want to hear. I read your OP. Commented on your opening Scripture quote.

Evidently you claim the sabbath isn't a holy day. You talk about festival(s). A festival is defined as: a day or period of celebration, typically a religious commemoration. That doesn't fit the sabbath? really?

You're not the slightest bit interested in talking about the Scripture. You're here promoting the false doctrines of a church.

You seem to think I've not read the OP because
  1. I only commented on the opening verse.
  2. I didn't mention anything else in your OP.
  3. I didn't provide the response you wanted.
I don't do long post often. Very few will read them. I gather from your OP you're promoting the sabbath as a requirement for Christians. There's no such obligation mentioned in the complete Scripture. You intend others to throw out the rules of English. The word "you" is always qualified and specific. In the case of the 7th day sabbath this limits the sabbath requirement to Israel. Exodus 19 & 20; 31; Deuteronomy 5.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Jesus
 
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stuart lawrence

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Nothing mentioned of the 7th Day Sabbath too :D Good night my friend.
Goodnight, sleep well.
An understandable response from you sadly. Of course, if you had any scripture yourself from the NC, you wouldn't have to reason so desperately would you
 
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stuart lawrence

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In the Chur h I went to where they worshipped on Saturdays. One woman, who had multiple affairs, called out enthusiastically AMEN during the sermon if the minister said something she heartily approved of. One of the women who often took the service before the minister spoke slept with her boyfriend. Many took the Lord's name in vain, apparently oblivious to the fact they were doing so. And yet they were adamant. You must obey the TC to attain to heaven.
It was an eye opener.
Of course, if one understands Pauls core message one is not surprised.
Live under the law and sin shall be your master, for:

The power of sin is the law 1cor15:56
 
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Hi again Doveaman,

I know we are currently having this same discussion in another thread. I thought it would be a good separate discussion in a new thread here. I appreciate your thought and sharing and it is always nice to share God's Word with you in the Spirit of Love and friendship in Christ. Some comments that we can go over again for others is beneficial so please feel free to share what we have already discussed elsewhere.
Some comments adding on to yours below.



I appreciate your thoughts and sharing above. Nice to see someone reading their bible and knowing some scripture. I also am familiar with Hebrews 9. But I do not agree that it applies to the OP. Why? Because yes Hebrews 9 is talking about the Heavenly copy of the earthly Sanctuary including all the items and the 10 commandments and the new ministration of Jesus our great High Priest and Lamb of God. But what was the earthly Sanctuary service with all it's burnt offerings and all the ceremonial and Levitical laws and festivals for? They were for a cure for sin should someone sin. God's Law only ever pointed out what sin was the Sanctuary service and all of it's laws were however the cure for sin and included all the animal sacrifices, food and drink offerings that where to cleanse the sinner from their sins. There is many scriptures on this let me know if you want them (e.g. most of Lev; Numb; Deut). It was also to teach the children of Israel about God's plan of salvation and pointed to Jesus as the Messiah and our true sacrifice for sin and offering, the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the World (John 1:29; 1Cor 5:7). So what we are talking about in Hebrews 9 is the real copy of the early plan of salvation.

Where your interpretation falls apart is that when we are talking about God's Law and the laws of Moses we are talking about two different things. 1. God's Law (10 commandments) only points out what sin is. It is not a cure for sin. 2. The laws of Moses (ceremonial, sacrificial, Levitical, Sanctuary, civil, annual festivals, ordinances etc) are the prescription for sin. The wages of sin is death so the penalty must be paid (animal sacrifices under the laws of Moses)

So getting back to Hebrews 9 and why this does not apply to the OP? I cannot apply to the OP for these reasons;

The Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God (Ex 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecc 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul it is our schoolmaster and the standard of righteousness (Ps 19:7; Ps 119:172). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants (Ex 20:1:17, Heb 8:10-12; Ex 36:26-27; Jer 31:33-34). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Ex 20:1-22). God’s 10 commandments are the spoken word of God (Ex 20:1-22). God’s Word does not pass away (Matt 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Ps 111:7-8, Rev 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1 John 3:5-8, 1 John 2:3-4 etc.). God’s Law reveals sin to us and the penalty of sin so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Rom 6:23; Rom 3:20; 1 John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Heb 10:26-28; Rom 1:29-32;2:-9;2Cor 5:10; Heb 9:27; Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1 John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood as we have faith (Gal 3:24; Rev 1:5). God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Heb 8:10-12) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Rom 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15).

What has not been addressed in the OP is that of the time in which the 7th Day Sabbath was made.

The time in which the 7th day Sabbath was given is absolutely important! Why? Because it proves the 7th Day Sabbath cannot be a shadow of the plan of salvation. Why? Because it was made BEFORE the fall of mankind and before the plan of salvation was made! So it cannot be a Shadow of anything! It cannot be a shadow because it was part of a FINISHED work made before sin had entered the world. You cannot deny this because it is the Word of God (Gen 2:1-3). This alone shows you that your interpretation of Hebrews 9 is not correct because this is talking about the plan of salvation and the heavenly Sanctuary and the Ministration of Christ our high priest over sin and the investigative Judgment. Yes the standard is God’s Law because it is the standard of righteousness which points out what sin is. But your shadow theory disappears because the Sabbath was given before the fall of mankind and before sin entered the world and is part of the finished work of creation.

In Christ always!
When it comes to judgment the christian has already passed it. Jesus said: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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stuart lawrence

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