IT REALLY SAYS

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The lie: the 5 unwise virgins are unbelievers...

1. Unbelievers are Never considered virgins brides of Christ
2. They are unwise - which means they were wise at first
3. They become unwise when the master is delayed

Since nothing can delay Christ coming to gather his bride then it has to be the teaching of the pre trib rapture that make believers think he is delayed and not coming. Then they become unwise but still virgins..... and loose faith and when the tribulation Jesus (paul waits for in 2thes 1:7) they are caught by the thief in the night who then takes their inheritance from them and they never get it back.

Lukes good and faithful/faithless servant is the same story with more added,
who is the:
1. Good and faithful servant - one who stays course and Jesus finds him doing Gods will (5 wise virgins were found this way) rewarded with Christ things.
2. But if that believeing servant (same one) decides the master isnt coming and he goes back to his old ways and then tribulation Jesus comes and catches that man not looking for his coming and he's cut to.pieces - same man thats rewarded with all Christs goods.... has 2 outcomes..
1. Rewarded
2. Punnished with unbelievers and gets MORE stripes as he knew Gods will.
3 the unbeliever gets fewer stripes cause he didnt know Gods will
4. The one who is rewarded has his stripes taken by Christ (Is 53:5)

This shows believers can fall away and be left behind.....

These relate's fully to the prodical's son... when it comes to loosing salvation.
the 2 sons are doing Gods will, the one son stays the course and is a wise virgin and a wise servant but, the other son he decides to fall away into the world where like the unwise virgins/servant he looses his inheritance (eternal life) then when he comes back to God the father meets him and says: You were DEAD but you live AGAIN..... now the only difference is that the prodicals son Repents before Christ comes and finds him not doing Gods will.... the virgins and servant did not....

So dont let anyone tell you the 5 unwise virgins are unbelievers, this is what they have to do because they dont believe one can fall away.....
 

IT REALLY SAYS

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2 Peter 2:20

For if AFTER we have Escaped the world how?
through a LORD and a SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST
(Only believers can call Jesus Lord and Savior)
then they are again entangled (drinking and beating servants)
then fully overcome (unwise virgins) then they are worst off than at first - at first they are unbelievers going to lake of fire


Wait..oh yeah the servant got more beatings than he would of gotten as an unbeliever.... he is now worst off....
2:21 it would have been better to not have known the way then to know it and then turn away from it....
He is the dog who returns to his own vomit..
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"

Half of those virgins tell the other half to go buy more oil...Half enter through The Door to the marriage supper.

Luke 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

Luke 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
 
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Ron Gurley

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Is this thread about "APOSTASY"?...A forgivable sin?

Hosea 14:4
I will heal their apostasy,
I will love them freely,
For My anger has turned away from them.

their apostasy...Hebrew 4878...mĕshuwbah...
I.turning away, turning back, ...backsliding

the "apostasy"...Greek 646...apostasia...I.a falling away, defection,

2 Thess. 2:
Let no one in any way deceive you,
for it (Second Coming) will not come unless the "apostasy" comes first,
and the "man of lawlessness" (anti-christ 666) is revealed, the "son of destruction"

Jeremiah 8:4
“You shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord,
“Do men fall and not get up again? Does one turn away and not repent?. (turn toward God)

Matthew 13:21
yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

he "falls away"...Greek 4624...skandalizō...
B.to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey

Matthew 24:10...Jesus' Prophecy of the "end times"
At that time (3.5 YEARS of tribulation) many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another...
14 This "gospel of the kingdom" shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the NATIONS,
and then the end (of 3.5 YEARS of tribulation) will come.(NEXT: GREAT TRIBULATION of 3.5 years...verse 21)

Is "apostasy" / "falling away" by true believers a forgiveable sin??
 
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Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4

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The lie: the 5 unwise virgins are unbelievers...

1. Unbelievers are Never considered virgins brides of Christ
2. They are unwise - which means they were wise at first
3. They become unwise when the master is delayed

Since nothing can delay Christ coming to gather his bride then it has to be the teaching of the pre trib rapture that make believers think he is delayed and not coming. Then they become unwise but still virgins..... and loose faith and when the tribulation Jesus (paul waits for in 2thes 1:7) they are caught by the thief in the night who then takes their inheritance from them and they never get it back.

Lukes good and faithful/faithless servant is the same story with more added,
who is the:
1. Good and faithful servant - one who stays course and Jesus finds him doing Gods will (5 wise virgins were found this way) rewarded with Christ things.
2. But if that believeing servant (same one) decides the master isnt coming and he goes back to his old ways and then tribulation Jesus comes and catches that man not looking for his coming and he's cut to.pieces - same man thats rewarded with all Christs goods.... has 2 outcomes..
1. Rewarded
2. Punnished with unbelievers and gets MORE stripes as he knew Gods will.
3 the unbeliever gets fewer stripes cause he didnt know Gods will
4. The one who is rewarded has his stripes taken by Christ (Is 53:5)

This shows believers can fall away and be left behind.....

These relate's fully to the prodical's son... when it comes to loosing salvation.
the 2 sons are doing Gods will, the one son stays the course and is a wise virgin and a wise servant but, the other son he decides to fall away into the world where like the unwise virgins/servant he looses his inheritance (eternal life) then when he comes back to God the father meets him and says: You were DEAD but you live AGAIN..... now the only difference is that the prodicals son Repents before Christ comes and finds him not doing Gods will.... the virgins and servant did not....

So dont let anyone tell you the 5 unwise virgins are unbelievers, this is what they have to do because they dont believe one can fall away.....

3) They didn't become unwise , they 5 were unwise from the start , the other 5 were wise from the start .
Nobody become wise or unwise when master delayed , all of them went to sleep ( it might mean that all of them Died because because when Lazarus is dead Jesus say that he is sleeping ) .

Foolish ones took thier lamps without oil from the beginning , they were empty , no thalf not little but empty .

All Virgins arose , even unbelievers will arose from the dead to be judged at Great Throne Judgement .

The ones who had oil were the ones who had Holy Spirit , so they wen't in , they could not share it because you can't share with somebody Holy Spirit , they must have thier own one .

This is not about works , this is not about waiting for him to come because all were sleeping , this is if you are saved or not .

Same goes with prodigal son , he blow his father inheritance but he never stopped being his son , you can't stop being child of God when you are born again , you may blow your inheritance in heaven , but you yourself shall be saved .

You might want to read Romans , if you need to understand eternal security .
When God give you free gift of eternal life ( 1 Cor 15:1-4) , if you could lose it it's not eternal in first place , moreover if God took it away from you , he would be thief because it was yours after he gave it to you .
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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3) They didn't become unwise , they 5 were unwise from the start , the other 5 were wise from the start .
Nobody become wise or unwise when master delayed , all of them went to sleep ( it might mean that all of them Died because because when Lazarus is dead Jesus say that he is sleeping ) .

Foolish ones took thier lamps without oil from the beginning , they were empty , no thalf not little but empty .

All Virgins arose , even unbelievers will arose from the dead to be judged at Great Throne Judgement .

The ones who had oil were the ones who had Holy Spirit , so they wen't in , they could not share it because you can't share with somebody Holy Spirit , they must have thier own one .

This is not about works , this is not about waiting for him to come because all were sleeping , this is if you are saved or not .

Same goes with prodigal son , he blow his father inheritance but he never stopped being his son , you can't stop being child of God when you are born again , you may blow your inheritance in heaven , but you yourself shall be saved .

You might want to read Romans , if you need to understand eternal security .
When God give you free gift of eternal life ( 1 Cor 15:1-4) , if you could lose it it's not eternal in first place , moreover if God took it away from you , he would be thief because it was yours after he gave it to you .
When Jesus was praying in the garden at Gethsemane, the disciples fell asleep...three times Jesus came back to them and they had fallen back asleep while waiting and watching. "...the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."


Revelation 16:15
Matthew 24:43
1 Thessalonians 5:2-4
2 Peter 3:10

The Day of the Lord can be likened to Jacob's wrestling til Day light and getting a new name. It is not about works, it is about becoming blind to see or single of eye. It all goes back to the garden when Adam was alone and had a change of eyesight...which is all to do with the revelation of the son that we are IN Christ.

We see dimly at first looking into a glass...2 Corinthians 3:18 ...then unveiled face/eye that sees...the image that we truly are IN Christ, "For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit."

Falling short of the glory of God which the first Adam once knew and the Last Adam when truly revealed in fullness of spirit makes us to KNOW is the process of soul taking place within that takes us back to the beginning.

"And to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness." Eph 4:24

And Romans 8:29 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The duality within flesh/spirit and the 10 virgins have to do with what we 'think' in our own mind and what the spirit (and the Bride) says...Revelation 22:16-17 speaks to the Morning Star (Jacob wrestled until...)

Eternal means lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning, and yet so many hold to the belief that it means after this body physically dies...and yet the whole of scripture is an unfolding of Truth and the promise of what the end of our faith will bring - "the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:"
 
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tdidymas

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"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"

Half of those virgins tell the other half to go buy more oil...Half enter through The Door to the marriage supper.

Luke 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

Luke 8:16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.

17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

Beware that you don't make a classical interpretive mistake. This is a parable, which means it is simply a story to teach a lesson. In a parable, the details don't correspond to anything in real life. In other words, "virgin" doesn't mean believer. In the OT, the nation Israel is allegorized as either a virgin or a harlot, so "virgin" most likely refers to someone who is actually trying to gain eternal life by attempting to obey God's commands (i.e. not an idolator). Thus, those following and hearing Jesus tell the story would identify themselves as one of the virgins. But Jesus also said "not everyone who calls Me 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven." Therefore, if you are reading this parable and are interested in the eternal life that Christ offers, then you are one of these virgins, as the application of the parable. Other details such as the number 10 have very little meaning; the number could have been 20 and still been as meaningful as it is.

Now, the oil - we get to the real lesson of the story which is preparedness. If we procrastinate about our walk with God, we may have a religious zeal that looks like "lamps with oil." But when the time comes for Christ's 2nd Advent, the "oil" has run out (because fleshly zeal dies), and we are not ready for resurrection to life. If we wait for the last minute to be ready for His coming, we will never be ready. It is a spiritual lesson, which essentially tells us that a fleshly religious zeal may appear like readiness, but it's not. The parable calls us to long-term vision and persevering faith and continual repentance.
TD:)
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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Never said virgin meant 'believer'...and there be many who 'think' they are believers but fail to enter in. Truth cast down becomes a serpent in the garden. Truth high and lifted up is an open Door.

Today is always The Day...if we can SEE.
 
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tdidymas

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Never said virgin meant 'believer'...and there be many who 'think' they are believers but fail to enter in. Truth cast down becomes a serpent in the garden. Truth high and lifted up is an open Door.

Today is always The Day...if we can SEE.

Please at least be intellectually honest:
The lie: the 5 unwise virgins are unbelievers...
Are you trying to tell me this statement is not implying that you are claiming the "virgins" are believers? It is obvious this is exactly what is implied in the statement, as it is in the nature of what you say in your post, regardless of whether or not you consciously intended to imply it.

there be many who 'think' they are believers but fail to enter in
Isn't this essentially what I said in my post? Believers enter, but unbelievers fail to enter. Just because someone wants to go to heaven and makes attempt via religious activity (though it be Christian in appearance) doesn't make them believers who enter. This is what the warning is about in the parable.
TD:)
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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Please at least be intellectually honest:
The lie: the 5 unwise virgins are unbelievers...
I did not make that statement.

I was touching on the part about sleeping and awakening and how it relates to being in the flesh or in spirit. The flesh cannot enter in.

Not disputing the parable...or what you said.
 
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tdidymas

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I did not make that statement.

I was touching on the part about sleeping and awakening and how it relates to being in the flesh or in spirit. The flesh cannot enter in.

Not disputing the parable...or what you said.

Sorry, my mistake, I thought I was answering the OP.
TD:scratch:
 
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3) They didn't become unwise , they 5 were unwise from the start , the other 5 were wise from the start .
Nobody become wise or unwise when master delayed , all of them went to sleep ( it might mean that all of them Died because because when Lazarus is dead Jesus say that he is sleeping ) .

Foolish ones took thier lamps without oil from the beginning , they were empty , no thalf not little but empty .

All Virgins arose , even unbelievers will arose from the dead to be judged at Great Throne Judgement .

The ones who had oil were the ones who had Holy Spirit , so they wen't in , they could not share it because you can't share with somebody Holy Spirit , they must have thier own one .

This is not about works , this is not about waiting for him to come because all were sleeping , this is if you are saved or not .

Same goes with prodigal son , he blow his father inheritance but he never stopped being his son , you can't stop being child of God when you are born again , you may blow your inheritance in heaven , but you yourself shall be saved .

You might want to read Romans , if you need to understand eternal security .
When God give you free gift of eternal life ( 1 Cor 15:1-4) , if you could lose it it's not eternal in first place , moreover if God took it away from you , he would be thief because it was yours after he gave it to you .

Eternal security you say? Tell me then...
2 peter2:20
if after they have escaped the world through a Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.....

Is the PERSON who ecapes the world through a Lord and Savior Jesus Christ saved or not?
 
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IT REALLY SAYS

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Is this thread about "APOSTASY"?...A forgivable sin?

Hosea 14:4
I will heal their apostasy,
I will love them freely,
For My anger has turned away from them.

their apostasy...Hebrew 4878...mĕshuwbah...
I.turning away, turning back, ...backsliding

the "apostasy"...Greek 646...apostasia...I.a falling away, defection,

2 Thess. 2:
Let no one in any way deceive you,
for it (Second Coming) will not come unless the "apostasy" comes first,
and the "man of lawlessness" (anti-christ 666) is revealed, the "son of destruction"

Jeremiah 8:4
“You shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord,
“Do men fall and not get up again? Does one turn away and not repent?. (turn toward God)

Matthew 13:21
yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

he "falls away"...Greek 4624...skandalizō...
B.to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey

Matthew 24:10...Jesus' Prophecy of the "end times"
At that time (3.5 YEARS of tribulation) many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another...
14 This "gospel of the kingdom" shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the NATIONS,
and then the end (of 3.5 YEARS of tribulation) will come.(NEXT: GREAT TRIBULATION of 3.5 years...verse 21)

Is "apostasy" / "falling away" by true believers a forgiveable sin??
Hello Ron,

In 2peter 2:20 the sinner becomes a believer through a lord and savior Jesus Christ, we know this is a believer. Then this person kinda gets back to the old sinning ways and then completely goes back to the way he was before Christ, and Now he is WORST off than at the beginning when he was an unbeliever going to the lake of fire.....
 
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IT REALLY SAYS

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A dog returns to his own vomit follows this because the dog had vomited up the pollutions of the world and then went back to the old ways....

This is what is meant by - it is better to never have known Jesus as savior than to have known and fallen away... why cause your worst off..... these all say No to eternal security thats why their grouped together
 
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tdidymas

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A dog returns to his own vomit follows this because the dog had vomited up the pollutions of the world and then went back to the old ways....

This is what is meant by - it is better to never have known Jesus as savior than to have known and fallen away... why cause your worst off..... these all say No to eternal security thats why their grouped together

There is no eternal security for the fool who is a dog or a sow, who doesn't have the wisdom to stay out of the vomit or the cess pool. Is this you?

But Jesus said "My sheep hear My voice, and they follow Me."

The problem with using 2 Pet. 2:20 as a proof text for losing salvation is that you are making the assumption that just because a person "believes" in Christ (or has escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ) that such a person is "saved". Yet Jesus said "not everyone who calls me 'Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven". If we examine the context of Mat. 7:21 and other related passages, we find that such people are workers of iniquity and have not done the will of the Father. Workers of iniquity despite the fact that they appear righteous to others (escaped the pollutions of the world), and have not done the will of the Father though they appear to believe in Christ (say 'Lord, Lord'), even if they "do miraculous signs"!

Knowledge of the Lord and savior Jesus Christ does not automatically mean a person is saved, although we rightly assume it so, because we are relatively blind and don't know who is really being saved and who isn't, therefore we treat everyone in the church as having been saved. The surety of salvation is only between the individual being saved and God, therefore the encouragement to that surety is only to the individual (Ps. 91 "...I will show him my salvation"). It is not between you and others that you potentially judge, it is between you and God only. You don't have enough knowledge to discern who else is going to endure in faith to the end and who isn't. This is why apostasy is forgivable, because it is repentable.

If we read the NT carefully, we discover that there is an underlying assumption that not everyone in church is saved (has saving faith). The NT is chock full of warnings for those people, thus "not everyone...." And just as not everyone in the churches were true believers then, so it is now. And the warnings are just as much for true believers as they are for the false. The difference is that true believers are wise enough to take heed to the warnings and remember them for future crises. The difference is that true believers have the mighty forceful influence of the Holy Spirit to drive them in the right direction even though such a person in all appearance (according to the flesh) might look spiritually weak. The difference is that in the greatest test of each man's faith, true believers will be changed more into the likeness of Christ, and false believers won't. The difference is that true believers actually believe they are "kept by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Pet. 1:5).

Therefore, the 2 Pet. 2:20 passage is a hypothetical proposition that is presented as a warning to people who are tempted to use the mercy of God for evil (false ideas). If they do so, then it simply proves they were that fool Peter is talking about. But sheep of Christ are not fools; they hear His voice, because they have the wisdom it takes to listen. The idea of eternal security will always be misused by those who are licentious (religious, but not saved). The idea of eternal security is only for the comfort of those with saving faith. Jn. 10:28 "...they will never perish."
TD:)

p.s. related link on the interpretation of the parable of the virgins:
10 virgins
 
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There is no eternal security for the fool who is a dog or a sow, who doesn't have the wisdom to stay out of the vomit or the cess pool. Is this you?

But Jesus said "My sheep hear My voice, and they follow Me."

The problem with using 2 Pet. 2:20 as a proof text for losing salvation is that you are making the assumption that just because a person "believes" in Christ (or has escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ) that such a person is "saved". Yet Jesus said "not everyone who calls me 'Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven". If we examine the context of Mat. 7:21 and other related passages, we find that such people are workers of iniquity and have not done the will of the Father. Workers of iniquity despite the fact that they appear righteous to others (escaped the pollutions of the world), and have not done the will of the Father though they appear to believe in Christ (say 'Lord, Lord'), even if they "do miraculous signs"!

Knowledge of the Lord and savior Jesus Christ does not automatically mean a person is saved, although we rightly assume it so, because we are relatively blind and don't know who is really being saved and who isn't, therefore we treat everyone in the church as having been saved. The surety of salvation is only between the individual being saved and God, therefore the encouragement to that surety is only to the individual (Ps. 91 "...I will show him my salvation"). It is not between you and others that you potentially judge, it is between you and God only. You don't have enough knowledge to discern who else is going to endure in faith to the end and who isn't. This is why apostasy is forgivable, because it is repentable.

If we read the NT carefully, we discover that there is an underlying assumption that not everyone in church is saved (has saving faith). The NT is chock full of warnings for those people, thus "not everyone...." And just as not everyone in the churches were true believers then, so it is now. And the warnings are just as much for true believers as they are for the false. The difference is that true believers are wise enough to take heed to the warnings and remember them for future crises. The difference is that true believers have the mighty forceful influence of the Holy Spirit to drive them in the right direction even though such a person in all appearance (according to the flesh) might look spiritually weak. The difference is that in the greatest test of each man's faith, true believers will be changed more into the likeness of Christ, and false believers won't. The difference is that true believers actually believe they are "kept by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Pet. 1:5).

Therefore, the 2 Pet. 2:20 passage is a hypothetical proposition that is presented as a warning to people who are tempted to use the mercy of God for evil (false ideas). If they do so, then it simply proves they were that fool Peter is talking about. But sheep of Christ are not fools; they hear His voice, because they have the wisdom it takes to listen. The idea of eternal security will always be misused by those who are licentious (religious, but not saved). The idea of eternal security is only for the comfort of those with saving faith. Jn. 10:28 "...they will never perish."
TD:)

p.s. related link on the interpretation of the parable of the virgins:
10 virgins

Sorry the church has taught you traditions of men on this but to try and say the man who escapes the world Through - which means by or how he does the escaping is by a Lord and a Savior named Jesus Christ and just plain foolish to let your false knowledge get in the way of what anyone who can sign onto a computer can tell this is a believer who attains salvation through a Lord and Savior which ONLY a believer can achieve...... I will not debate this or other scriptures with you when something is clear.... if you would of known nothing of oncesavedalwayssaved and read this verse you would not see anything but a believer through Christ......
 
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So it shows a believer escape the world and you all know what that means...
then it shows the man escape through a lord and savior named Jesus Christ
Then he gets entangled in his old ways
then he is overcome by those ways
Now he is worst off than at first when he was an unbeliever going to the lake of fire.

You can all deny it it but you know what it says

The dog is the sinner in those pollutions and he vomits those out, which is to say through a lord and savior but then he returns to that vomit (his old ways) and is overcome with them...

What do you all think is meant: its better to not have ever known Jesus as savior Than To know Him as savior and fallen away.... and this echos above where the fallen believer is worst off now, better to have staayed an unbeliever than become a believer and then fall away....
 
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IT REALLY SAYS

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Look at lukes good and faithful/faithless servant,

Who is the faithful servant? One doing Gods will when Jesus comes to gather his elect...
blessed is that servant (believer) he wil get to rule over Jesus whole house...
but if that servant (same man that will get rewarded above) decides that because the (pre trib) master is delayed he beats the servants and drinking (he has been overcome) and when the master comes (tribulation rapture) and finds his servant fallen away, he is cut to pieces.... and NOW will appointed his portion with the unbelievers... ajd now he gets many beatings while the unbeliever gets few - so again this man is WORST off than at First... same as above....
it all works this way and not once saved always saved yet christians will just say they have promises of eternal security yet both cant be true as this for sure along with the prodicals son and the 10 virgins all.say te same thing.... deny it if you wish but I use to believe as you all do until I found veerse that said thats not true.....
 
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