Sin is...

sdowney717 · Aug 10, 2017

TheSeabass said:
Sin causes any person at any time to be lost period. Eternal security does not get rid of sin and its effect, it remains.

v25
Christ's intercession is worthless ??

Those who come to God through Him are saved to the uttermost, there is no loss of salvation for a believer in Christ.

Hebrews 7:24-26New King James Version (NKJV)
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;

JIMINZ · Aug 11, 2017

I tell you what, I'm going to move my part of this discussion to a new Thread called

DEAD TO SIN in the Controversial Christian Theology section.

If you want to continue, I'll be there from now on

SkyWriting · Aug 11, 2017

Mr. O said:
...to miss the mark.

The standard of perfection established by God and evidenced by Jesus. Viewed in that light, it is clear that we are all sinners.

If you are walking beside God in Paradise in a Garden, then you have no sin.
Once that constant communion is broken, that is sin. Life without God in communion.

Si_monfaith · Sep 6, 2017

TheSeabass said:
Sin causes any person at any time to be lost period. Eternal security does not get rid of sin and its effect, it remains.

Romans 5:13

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Jesus has set us free from the law (Romans 7: 6) and so sin is not imputed.

That is eternal security.

Si_monfaith · Sep 6, 2017

SkyWriting said:
If you are walking beside God in Paradise in a Garden, then you have no sin.
Once that constant communion is broken, that is sin. Life without God in communion.

For whom God elected by His will, the communion is never broken. No cause for worry.

Aseyesee · Sep 6, 2017

Jesus didn't become a sinner, he became sin.

Just a thought ...

Si_monfaith · Sep 6, 2017

TheSeabass said:
If the Christian can impenitently sin yet not be lost, then that effectively gets rid of sin. If a law of 55 mph is passed yet no one is pulled over and penalized for driving over 55 mph, i.e., the law is not enforced but ignored, then that effectively means there is no law of 55 mph speed limit where one will be punished if he violates it. Therefore one has been given a "license" to drive over 55 mph with no penalty no consequence. Likewise if the Christian can impenitently sin without the penalty, without the consequence of sin [which is spiritual death - Romans 6:23], then that effectively did away with sin where one has been given a 'license" to do as he pleases with no consequence, no penalty of sin to face.

If a Christian can impenitently engaged in adultery and die in that state, and if he does not face the penalty/consequence of sin, spiritual death, then there is no sin. For sin to exist, its consequence must also exist else it is not really sin but something else.

God does not declare the disobedient, impenitent righteous.

If adam & eve had not chosen the knowledge of good and evil, no one would know what an act of sin is.

Si_monfaith · Sep 6, 2017

Aseyesee said:
Jesus didn't become a sinner, he became sin.

Just a thought ...

Jesus took all the penalty for our sins and also abolished the law so sinning is no more possible.

Si_monfaith · Sep 6, 2017

GingerBeer said:
It cannot mean that in the case of infants who die in infancy or infants who die before they are born. Such infants have done nothing either good or bad and hence have not sinned in word or deed.

I am curious, do you know what original sin is?

Original sin is forsaking the grace of God given through His Son and choosing the knowledge of good and evil (kge) which in turn made nakedness to be seen as an evil.

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Si_monfaith said:
Romans 5:13

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Jesus has set us free from the law (Romans 7: 6) and so sin is not imputed.

That is eternal security.

Christ did NOT do away with ALL law for if there were no law at all then there would be no sin, yet people sin so there is a law we are under today that being Christ's NT law.

The "law" Christ freed us from is the OT law of Moses for under that law the only way one could be completely justified was by flawless keeping of all that law perfectly. Yet men sin making totally justification under that OT law virtually impossible. Therefore under Christ's NT law man has been freed from the requirement of perfect sinlessness in order to be justified but needs a simple obedient faith in being justified for God will forgive those that obediently repent.

For man to be saved, he is accountable to obeying the NT law, the gospel of Christ 2 Thessalonians 1:8 so there is no unconditional eternal security under Christ's NT law.

Aseyesee · Sep 6, 2017

Si_monfaith said:
If adam & eve had not chosen the knowledge of good and evil, no one would know what an act of sin is.

and without Judas ...

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Si_monfaith said:
If adam & eve had not chosen the knowledge of good and evil, no one would know what an act of sin is.

But they did sin and God's perfect justice does not allow sin to go unpunished...no unconditional eternal security for the Christian that will not repent of his sins...and the wages of sin is (spiritual) death.

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

sdowney717 said:
v25
Christ's intercession is worthless ??

Those who come to God through Him are saved to the uttermost, there is no loss of salvation for a believer in Christ.

Hebrews 7:24-26New King James Version (NKJV)
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens;

Christ intercession is profitable for those that obey Christ, Hebrews 5:9. Those that will not have an obedient faith fail to take advantage of what Christ did for them on the cross. Christ did not die so man can live unconditionally, impenitently in sin yet still be saved. No cheap grace.

Aseyesee · Sep 6, 2017

Si_monfaith said:
Jesus took all the penalty for our sins and also abolished the law so sinning is no more possible.

There's a vast difference between loving, and being love ...

Aseyesee · Sep 6, 2017

TheSeabass said:
But they did sin and God's perfect justice does not allow sin to go unpunished...no unconditional eternal security for the Christian that will not repent of his sins...and the wages of sin is (spiritual) death.

Why did God knowingly plant a tree that would incure this unless it was his intention from before the beginning ...

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Hammster said:
Christ took the consequences of sin.

Romans 2:6-10
2 Corinthians 5:10
Man will face the consequence for his deeds, good or bad.

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Si_monfaith said:
For whom God elected by His will, the communion is never broken. No cause for worry.

Romans 11 fleshly Israel was God's elect but they were cast off, lost.

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Aseyesee said:
Why did God knowingly plant a tree that would incure this unless it was his intention from before the beginning ...

God gave man free will and allows man to use that gift. Therefore God did not cause man to do anything against man's will. So God is not the author of sin nor culpable for man's choices/actions.

Hammster · Sep 6, 2017

TheSeabass said:
Romans 2:6-10
2 Corinthians 5:10
Man will face the consequence for his deeds, good or bad.

So Christ wasn't made sin? Our debt wasn't really cancelled, having been nailed to the cross?

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Hammster said:
So Christ wasn't made sin? Our debt wasn't really cancelled, having been nailed to the cross?

No sin was UNCONDITIONALLY forgiven by Christ on the cross. If such were the case, then every single individual would unconditionally be saved. Yet those who CONDITIONALLY, continually obey Christ [Hebrews 5:9] sins have been 'nailed to the cross'

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