Drop your theological errors off here...

amariselle

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How do we become perfect, as Jesus told us to?

Are we made perfect in Christ? In right standing with God because of our faith in Christ's finished sacrifice? Reconciled to God through Jesus? Born again? New creations in Christ?

Yes.
 
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amariselle

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You are saying, in every post, that one is saved then afterwards there's discipleship (or not in the above).
So how is that not salvation apart from discipleship?
The question becomes, is discipleship optional?

Who wouldn't want to be a disciple once they truly grasp what Christ has done for them?

In contrast, can someone be a disciple without actually believing in Christ or accepting His sacrifice for sin?
 
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1stcenturylady

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Are we made perfect in Christ? In right standing with God because of our faith in Christ's finished sacrifice? Reconciled to God through Jesus? Born again? New creations in Christ?

Yes.

No, that is not making us perfect. Jesus has told us the answer. It is something many today overlook.
 
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amariselle

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No, that is not making us perfect. Jesus has told us the answer. It is something many today overlook.

So, you believe we can make ourselves perfect?
 
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1stcenturylady

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So, you believe we can make ourselves perfect?

I can do nothing without Christ. But, justification and even sanctification doesn't make us PERFECT. James said, faith without works is dead. So what "works" should we be doing to become perfect?
 
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amariselle

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I can do nothing without Christ. But, justification and even sanctification doesn't make us PERFECT. James said, faith without works is dead. So what "works" should we be doing to become perfect?

If you are referring to perfection "in the flesh", that does not happen in this life. This "corruption" must put on "incorruption."
 
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1stcenturylady

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If you are referring to perfection "in the flesh", that does not happen in this life. This "corruption" must put on "incorruption."

No, I'm not talking about our bodies. I'll give you some help.

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
 
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pescador

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Yes, we must have faith in Jesus. We must believe.

Will a murderer who believes in Jesus and has 100% faith in Him be saved? If he wants to be saved he also needs to do works. What works? He needs to repent. Seek absolution. He needs to go down on his knees and beg for forgiveness. These are works he has to do!

Faith and Works | Catholic Answers

Just like the criminal (murderer?) on the cross next to Jesus? Nobody is saved by works. Nobody needs to seek absolution. Nobody needs to beg for forgiveness. If you want to do those things, go ahead, but don't require others to do them.
 
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pescador

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Yes, but we have to do our bit too. We need to repent and ask forgiveness when we sin. Jesus sent out His Apostles to forgive sins or retain them.

The OUR FATHER PRAYER asks us to ask God to 'Forgive us our Tresspasses'.

We have to pick up our cross and 'Follow Jesus.

It's time that you got out of the gospels, written to unbelievers to convince them that Jesus was the Messiah and son of God.

Try reading Paul's epistles to understand the Christian life. We do not need to repent and ask forgiveness when we sin. Why ask for something we already have?
 
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Phil 1:21

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No, I'm not talking about our bodies. I'll give you some help.

16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

I love this passage; it’s awesome. In verse 21 we see that Jesus correctly identifies the man’s problem, that he loves money more than God. So Jesus commands him to get his priorities correct; put God ahead of his money. This is the same thing the Lord commands us in Exodus 20:3 “You shall not have other gods beside me.” In this case, the man’s money was his god. In verse 22 we see that the man is sad because he cannot bring himself to put God ahead of his money, so he goes away.

To me, and maybe I’m seeing this incorrectly, this passage is a very poignant reaffirmation of the first commandment. Jesus also drove this point home in Matthew 22:36-38 when he responded to a question about which is the greatest commandment by saying, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment.” To me, putting God first in our lives constitutes faith, not works. Now, naturally, certain works will follow as a result. But in the case of the scripture cited, I believe Jesus asking the man to forsake his wealth was a work that was the result of him first having the faith in God to put him first in his life.
 
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Goatee

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Just like the criminal (murderer?) on the cross next to Jesus? Nobody is saved by works. Nobody needs to seek absolution. Nobody needs to beg for forgiveness. If you want to do those things, go ahead, but don't require others to do them.

Wrong. If I murder someone then I should mot beg God for forgiveness?
 
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Goatee

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It's time that you got out of the gospels, written to unbelievers to convince them that Jesus was the Messiah and son of God.

Try reading Paul's epistles to understand the Christian life. We do not need to repent and ask forgiveness when we sin. Why ask for something we already have?

Waw! You really believe that? That's so sad.

I bow down and ask for God's forgiveness when I sin plus I go to confession.

One cannot have no care that Jesus died for our sins so that one can sin freely!
 
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pescador

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Wrong. If I murder someone then I should mot beg God for forgiveness?

You answered your own question when you wrote, "Will a murderer who believes in Jesus and has 100% faith in Him be saved? If he wants to be saved he also needs to do works." There is nothing here about begging for forgiveness. Instead you said that he must do works. You are wrong in both cases.
 
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Goatee

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You answered your own question when you wrote, "Will a murderer who believes in Jesus and has 100% faith in Him be saved? If he wants to be saved he also needs to do works." There is nothing here about begging for forgiveness. Instead you said that he must do works. You are wrong in both cases.

So, I believe in Jesus but I go and kill 50 people. Am I still saved?
 
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pescador

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Waw! You really believe that? That's so sad.

I bow down and ask for God's forgiveness when I sin plus I go to confession.

One cannot have no care that Jesus died for our sins so that one can sin freely!

Really? The idea that when we're saved we then will sin freely is just plain nonsense. Christians are dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. If you want to sin then you are not paying attention to the Holy Spirit within.

As I said, if it makes you feel better to bow down and beg for forgiveness (that you already have) and go to confession, go ahead. Christians are forgiven in Christ; nothing more needs to be done.
 
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Goatee

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Really? The idea that when we're saved we then will sin freely is just plain nonsense. Christians are dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. If you want to sin then you are not paying attention to the Holy Spirit within.

As I said, if it makes you feel better to bow down and beg for forgiveness (that you already have) and go to confession, go ahead. Christians are forgiven in Christ; nothing more needs to be done.

Oh, so you never sin then? Amazing! :doh:
 
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pescador

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Oh, so you never sin then? Amazing! :doh:

Of course I sin. Everybody sins, since nobody is perfect. God doesn't expect me to be perfect and my sins are forgiven in advance. Why are you so focused on sin? It seems that you are perpetually focused on your sin and not on God.
 
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Goatee

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Of course I sin. Everybody sins, since nobody is perfect. God doesn't expect me to be perfect and my sins are forgiven in advance. Why are you so focused on sin? It seems that you are perpetually focused on your sin and not on God.

So, you believe, that all your future sins are forgiven without you even going down on bender knee and asking God for absolution?
 
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