pius463

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I looked at your post a second time. Whereas you are Catholic, I am a Christian. At least for a Christian's life, the only way to get to Heaven is through Christ. The entire Old Testament was about the lead up to Christ being born. The entire New Testament was about Jesus working miracles and when He went back into Heaven, they still talked about His importance on the Earth.

Jesus and God are the exact same, but you have to understand that Jesus came down to die for us, realize you have sinned and will continue to sin, and just believe. Jesus is the only way to Heaven, therefore it is definitely more important to believe in Jesus rather than God. (Even though everyone that believes in Jesus also believes in God).

Thank you. I am with you.
 
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pius463

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Perhaps this will help.
.....

Thank for the good summary. It helps. However it also shows the complexities of knowing God.
(I am Indonesian with Moslem majority) How do you explain these anti-thesis of Jesus deity?

Neutral-thesis:
Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, ‘The first is, “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one;

Pro-thesis:
John 10:30 'The Father and I are one.’
John 12:45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me.

Anti-thesis:
John 14:28 You heard me say to you, “I am going away, and I am coming to you.” If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than I.

Act 2:32-33 This Jesus God raised up, and of that all of us are witnesses. 33 Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you both see and hear.
36 Therefore let the entire house of Israel know with certainty that God has made him both Lord and Messiah, this Jesus whom you crucified.’


This is my way of thinking: God is one. The Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. We need to explain that: (a) the Father is God; (b) the Father and Jesus are one; (c) the Holy Spirit and Jesus are one. It means, we have to explain why the anti-thesis are there and true without disturbing the pro-thesis.
 
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pius463

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Okay. Glad we got that straightened out. So you believe in one diety, what exactly didn't we agree on? :scratch:

It is whether: The LORD God in Genesis 3, Exodus 17:14, Joshua 1:1, Joshua 6:21 is the same with the Father, with the only true God in John 17:3.
 
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RGW00

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It is whether: The LORD God in Genesis 3, Exodus 17:14, Joshua 1:1, Joshua 6:21 is the same with the Father, with the only true God in John 17:3.
Okay, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. One question I have to ask you though is if their was one deity and always one deity that the Bible says specifically has been the same yesterday, today, and forever, what makes you think He's different in the two different testaments of the Bible? I think He is very much the same God now as He was since the beginning of creation. He may interact with us differently but He had prophecies written to explain how and why this would happen.

The way I see it is this: Before Adam and Eve sinned, God walked and talked with them. Later in the Bible you find He stops speaking to people in this way (this is after Adam and Eve sinned). Now, today, He doesn't interact with us directly at all. This is because the more generations that have passed, we have interacted less with God, so He leaves the choice up to us if we really desire to contact Him, He will allow it. We have to be surrendering about it to begin that relationship with Him. We have to use the Holy Spirit to bridge the gap between us and God.

Even though I got off-topic with that, my point was that God may have changed the way He acts but if you look at what He has done today, a lot of the same things going on can be directed back to the Bible.
 
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pius463

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Okay, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. One question I have to ask you though is if their was one deity and always one deity that the Bible says specifically has been the same yesterday, today, and forever, what makes you think He's different in the two different testaments of the Bible? I think He is very much the same God now as He was since the beginning of creation. He may interact with us differently but He had prophecies written to explain how and why this would happen.

The way I see it is this: Before Adam and Eve sinned, God walked and talked with them. Later in the Bible you find He stops speaking to people in this way (this is after Adam and Eve sinned). Now, today, He doesn't interact with us directly at all. This is because the more generations that have passed, we have interacted less with God, so He leaves the choice up to us if we really desire to contact Him, He will allow it. We have to be surrendering about it to begin that relationship with Him. We have to use the Holy Spirit to bridge the gap between us and God.

Even though I got off-topic with that, my point was that God may have changed the way He acts but if you look at what He has done today, a lot of the same things going on can be directed back to the Bible.

Thank you.

Christianity was born when the Earth was flat and the universe was believed to be the ornament to the Earth. Now the Earth is known to be spherical and orbiting the Sun, and the Sun is just a star out of 300 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy, and the Milky Way is just one of around 2 trillion galaxies in the universe.

Now mankind are going to build or are looking for space colony. When the Earth were vanished (by accident, may be), what will happen to the salvation of men who were born and lived in the colonies. I think we here on Earth very possible are living in a colony-like and the soul-of-men could have started long before the Earth ( John 3:18 ).

As 1Peter 1:9 says, “for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.”, it is about salvation of the souls.

Among others, Matthew 11:27 inspired me to come to know the only true God ( John 17:3 ).

I am seriously looking for "eternal life" of John 17:3, because I don't like to "stands condemned" as in John 3:18.
As I listen to John 16:12-15, I believe that the Spirit of truth is to listen to and explain about Jesus's sayings. When there are logically conflicting verses in the Bible, I will hold what Jesus say.
 
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Newlyrestoredgospel777

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Thank you.

Christianity was born when the Earth was flat and the universe was believed to be the ornament to the Earth. Now the Earth is known to be spherical and orbiting the Sun, and the Sun is just a star out of 300 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy, and the Milky Way is just one of around 2 trillion galaxies in the universe.

Now mankind are going to build or are looking for space colony. When the Earth were vanished (by accident, may be), what will happen to the salvation of men who were born and lived in the colonies. I think we here on Earth very possible are living in a colony-like and the soul-of-men could have started long before the Earth ( John 3:18 ).

As 1Peter 1:9 says, “for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.”, it is about salvation of the souls.

Among others, Matthew 11:27 inspired me to come to know the only true God ( John 17:3 ).

I am seriously looking for "eternal life" of John 17:3, because I don't like to "stands condemned" as in John 3:18.
As I listen to John 16:12-15, I believe that the Spirit of truth is to listen to and explain about Jesus's sayings. When there are logically conflicting verses in the Bible, I will hold what Jesus say.

A Christian is not someone who gave his life to Christ!

How can you give your life to the ONE that gave you the life in the first place? (John 1:4 and John 1:9) The ONE who died that you might live?

Therefore, a Christian is not one who gave his life to Christ but one who regained his immortal life of bliss!!! Just like Father Adam (H.E) was a celestial Being in Eden, a terrestrial Being in the fall, but now has regained his immortal life, as He is now in Eden.

A Christian is a Jew (child of the Kingdom), who is genuinely seeking the knowledge of the true GOD and of HIS kingdom, and not a seeker of signs, wonders and miracles.

The first Christian is Father Adam (H.E).
Christians are of 2 kinds the Jews and Gentiles

The Jews are the legitimate children of the kingdom or descendants of Father Adam (H.E). A Jew is a prince without guile.

Gentiles are the children of the bond woman (religion). A Gentile is a religious vagabond, illegitimate Jew, prostitute kind, who is a bond servant, believing in the good news of a religion.
You do not become a Christian by Believing, but by discovering progressively, The Way, The Truth and The Life; By discovering the LAW, The WORD and the PROPHET, you will then discover the CHRIST.

A Christian is not just a believer or an unbeliever, Neither is he supposed to be called a Believer, as it suggested that you do not have to a choice, to question reasonably for accurate understanding, digestion and assimilation or ask questions on the ones you do not understand, but believe only.

That believer is like a plant without deep roots and this is the root cause of BACKSLIDING!!!

Therefore a Christian is a "KNOWER" by discovery and not by FAITH, searcher out of DIVINE SECRETS and not just a Believer!
Christianity is NOT THE BIG CONFESSION!
Christianity is NOT A RELIGION!!
Christianity is NOT BELONGING TO A CHURCH OR DENOMINATION!!!

Christianity is the declaration of the procreation of a certain superior SECT and GOD-GEM, their FALL, their VENERATION and REMISSION of their SIN, their GLORY PURCHASED by the BLOOD of the LAMB and their TOTAL unhindered DEVOTION to their ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD.
 
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Pastor-Kings

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And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

The above verse also contradicted Genesis 1:26-27 where GOD announced the making of Man to be like HIM, presenting the GOD as though HE lied because GOD is immortal and cannot die, whereas the death nature of the Man was already being acknowledged.

Man Was not made a mortal being!.
GOD knows no evil and cannot afflict any, as in HIM is light and no darkness at all!

When the bible account of the aftereffects of eating the fruit said that the eyes of the man opened, and then GOD said the man had become like HIM, this made what the serpent told Eve true, in other words, there was no deception, as though the one who tried to deceive is the creator, who never wanted man to live forever, just like HIMSELF.

In the fall, the eyes of the Man went dim, and He became alienated from GOD and celestial life, as His nature was thwarted to one that can gradually fade away and die, this is the mortal nature, this is the Fall.

Adam (H.E) is the Son of GOD (Luke 3:38)
JESUS CHRIST (H.P) is GOD the Son, the express image of the invisible GOD. (Hebrews 1:3, John 10:30)

THE TRINITY
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

... even his eternal power and Godhead... Water was made to define this part, like water can be linked to life, also the life giving word of GOD can be likened to dews, which is the same water.

Water can be in 3 different states - Liquid, Solid and Gas. The same water but different characteristics and potentials. This character of water can be likened to the GOD in defining HIS different mode of operations.

The liquid water can be likened to GOD the FATHER who is ever present in heaven, who does not leave HIS absence in the heavens, where HE is the source of light. When HE wants to visit a world and be tangible, HE proceeds from the FATHER as GOD the Son (as the GOD in HIS capital size cannot enter a world, hence HE is indescribable in size), so that HE can fit into the world, appear and interact also with the citizens of that works in a size they can relate to. That is the Melchizedek that Abraham saw, that is Jesus Christ (H.P). This state can be likened to the solid water. Like solid water(ice block), in this state, HE has a limited presence and ability (my Father is greater than I am, referring to HIS Fatherhood state). But when the GOD wants to visit a thousand places at the same time and be fully operational, HE proceeds as the Most Holy Spirit, this state can be likened to the gaseous water. The same GOD, 3 different states of operations, 3 different characteristics, same potency and strength.

So whenever GOD the Son referred to HIS Father, HE is either referring to HIS Fatherhood state, or to HIMSELF, but being in the shoes of the Son of GOD.

GOD CANNOT BE KILLED.
Jesus Christ Our Supreme Lord came to this earth, not as GOD, but in the shoes of mankind. Mankind in this sense points majorly to the principal ancestor of Mankind, Father Adam (H.E), the Son of GOD... to be continued
 
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pius463

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A Christian is not someone who gave his life to Christ!

How can you give your life to the ONE that gave you the life in the first place? (John 1:4 and John 1:9) The ONE who died that you might live?

Therefore, a Christian is not one who gave his life to Christ but one who regained his immortal life of bliss!!! Just like Father Adam (H.E) was a celestial Being in Eden, a terrestrial Being in the fall, but now has regained his immortal life, as He is now in Eden.

A Christian is a Jew (child of the Kingdom), who is genuinely seeking the knowledge of the true GOD and of HIS kingdom, and not a seeker of signs, wonders and miracles.

The first Christian is Father Adam (H.E).
Christians are of 2 kinds the Jews and Gentiles

The Jews are the legitimate children of the kingdom or descendants of Father Adam (H.E). A Jew is a prince without guile.

Gentiles are the children of the bond woman (religion). A Gentile is a religious vagabond, illegitimate Jew, prostitute kind, who is a bond servant, believing in the good news of a religion.
You do not become a Christian by Believing, but by discovering progressively, The Way, The Truth and The Life; By discovering the LAW, The WORD and the PROPHET, you will then discover the CHRIST.

A Christian is not just a believer or an unbeliever, Neither is he supposed to be called a Believer, as it suggested that you do not have to a choice, to question reasonably for accurate understanding, digestion and assimilation or ask questions on the ones you do not understand, but believe only.

That believer is like a plant without deep roots and this is the root cause of BACKSLIDING!!!

Therefore a Christian is a "KNOWER" by discovery and not by FAITH, searcher out of DIVINE SECRETS and not just a Believer!
Christianity is NOT THE BIG CONFESSION!
Christianity is NOT A RELIGION!!
Christianity is NOT BELONGING TO A CHURCH OR DENOMINATION!!!

Christianity is the declaration of the procreation of a certain superior SECT and GOD-GEM, their FALL, their VENERATION and REMISSION of their SIN, their GLORY PURCHASED by the BLOOD of the LAMB and their TOTAL unhindered DEVOTION to their ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD.

Christianity is not a faith or a religion that comes to force or that authorizes judgment.
Christianity is not a miracle cure that brings man to heaven.

On the part of God, Christianity is the guidance for man to come to know the true God ( John 17:3 ).
For humans, Christianity is about the journey of life up the steps of recognition to find God's truth according to God's guidance (Matthew 6:33, John 14: 6, John 16: 12-13).

Jesus is God. I follow Him, I put His words above the others, too many contradictions if I have to follow other wisdom.
 
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Newlyrestoredgospel777

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Christianity is not a faith or a religion that comes to force or that authorizes judgment.
Christianity is not a miracle cure that brings man to heaven.

On the part of God, Christianity is the guidance for man to come to know the true God ( John 17:3 ).
For humans, Christianity is about the journey of life up the steps of recognition to find God's truth according to God's guidance (Matthew 6:33, John 14: 6, John 16: 12-13).

Jesus is God. I follow Him, I put His words above the others, too many contradictions if I have to follow other wisdom.

The gospel has been from the beginning. The introduction of the Mankind race, the image of GOD, in defining the GOD of creation, not to the mankind race, but to the other celestial beings, the Cherubim, Seraphim and Angels, began the gospel.

The good news of the gospel is that the mortal man, who acquired a limited life span in the fall can live without tasting death at all, to defeat the mortal nature and death.

The first person to preach the gospel was the principal ancestor of Mankind, the one defining the GOD, made in HIS image and likeness. He was the one that experienced the fall. He raised and marked the first Angel of the First Church age, Enoch, who preached the gospel while running his race until he became born again and transfigured in life, completing his race, unto salvation, and has to leave the earth to heaven alive, because heaven is a real and physical place, not a ghost world.

Other Angels of different Church ages tried but couldn't complete their race, as many were defeated by ageing and the mortal nature. Elijah of Tishbe was the 2nd person to experience what it means to be born again in life without dying.

Living without dying is the salvation that awaits any mortal man who dares to do what it takes. This is the essence of the glorious command given to man in Genesis 1:26

This was what John 8:51-52 is all about
 
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pius463

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The gospel has been from the beginning. The introduction of the Mankind race, the image of GOD, in defining the GOD of creation, not to the mankind race, but to the other celestial beings, the Cherubim, Seraphim and Angels, began the gospel.

The good news of the gospel is that the mortal man, who acquired a limited life span in the fall can live without tasting death at all, to defeat the mortal nature and death.

The first person to preach the gospel was the principal ancestor of Mankind, the one defining the GOD, made in HIS image and likeness. He was the one that experienced the fall. He raised and marked the first Angel of the First Church age, Enoch, who preached the gospel while running his race until he became born again and transfigured in life, completing his race, unto salvation, and has to leave the earth to heaven alive, because heaven is a real and physical place, not a ghost world.

Other Angels of different Church ages tried but couldn't complete their race, as many were defeated by ageing and the mortal nature. Elijah of Tishbe was the 2nd person to experience what it means to be born again in life without dying.

Living without dying is the salvation that awaits any mortal man who dares to do what it takes. This is the essence of the glorious command given to man in Genesis 1:26

This was what John 8:51-52 is all about

I am sorry, I have a limited English, your sentences are not easy for me to understand.

The "gospel" that you define, I cannot understand the scope.
As of my understanding, Gospel is "Good news of salvation in the Lord Jesus".
Without Jesus and without the good news we already and will be "stands condemned (John 3:18 )",
Isaiah 42:7 "to open eyes that are blind,
to free captives from prison
and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness."


I believe salvation is about soul, 1Peter 1:9 "for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
Without Jesus, our souls is "sitting in the darkness (Isaiah 42:7)", already and will always be there "stands condemned ( John 3:18 )".

"because heaven is a real and physical place, not a ghost world", I don't know if soul need a physical place.
I cannot find any verse explaining what heaven is like, I just believe that Jesus is good and He plans a good thing for me (and all).
I understand the physical world as an "imperfect realm" which always change either evolutionary or revolutionary. I believe the place that Jesus prepares for us is a "perfect realm".

Christianity was born when the Earth was flat and the universe was believed to be the ornament to the Earth. Now the Earth is known to be spherical and orbiting the Sun, and the Sun is just a star out of 300 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy, and the Milky Way is just one of around 2 trillion galaxies in the universe.

I cannot imagine where God is sitting in the fast of the universe. I cannot imagine where will I be as result of I followed Jesus. I just want to go away from this imperfect realm, from this place of miserable. And I believe in and rely on only Jesus, for only He make us know that we are living in a miserable place (John 3:18).
 
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Newlyrestoredgospel777

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I am sorry, I have a limited English, your sentences are not easy for me to understand.

Sorry about this.

The "gospel" that you define, I cannot understand the scope.
As of my understanding, Gospel is "Good news of salvation in the Lord Jesus".
Without Jesus and without the good news we already and will be "stands condemned (John 3:18 )",
Isaiah 42:7 "to open eyes that are blind,
to free captives from prison
and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.

The good news of the gospel is that a mortal man with a limited life span can live ever-lasting, without having to die and be resurrected, before going to heaven.

I believe salvation is about soul, 1Peter 1:9 "for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
Without Jesus, our souls is "sitting in the darkness (Isaiah 42:7)", already and will always be there "stands condemned ( John 3:18 )

The Laws that govern the physical body and the laws that governs the Soul are not the same for example the law of gravity is tied to physical mortal body, a ghost cannot experience that and there is no gravity in the ghost world. A man consist of Spirit, Soul and Body. The man is the Spirit and not the body, but to have an active existence in a physical world, the spirit requires a physical body. Salvation points to your Soul because the spirit is programmed in the Soul, before being baptized into the physical body. Therefore the Soul serves as the intermediary joining the spirit and the body. When the soul in which the spirit is programmed is forcefully separated from the physical body, death occurs. When this happens, that spirit in the Soul becomes a ghost. This state instantly disqualifies the person as a bona fide citizen of a physical world and qualified him as a citizen of the ghost world - hell for the sinners and Abraham's Bosom for the children of the kingdom, where they all await their resurrection and judgement (Luke 16:20-21). While the sinner is in tortures, the child of the kingdom continues the purging of his spirit from the wrong mindsets he acquired while in the earth (spirit of just men made perfect Hebrews 12:23). That system of death that exposes the soul, to give the spirit that unpleasant experience of dying at all is what the salvation of the Soul points to.

because heaven is a real and physical place, not a ghost world", I don't know if soul need a physical place.
I cannot find any verse explaining what heaven is like, I just believe that Jesus is good and He plans a good thing for me (and all).
I understand the physical world as an "imperfect realm" which always change either evolutionary or revolutionary. I believe the place that Jesus prepares for us is a "perfect realm".

Revelation 21 and 22 have a little clue of what heaven is like and could not have been talking about a ghostly place and have details of walls, gates, trees, precious stones and names engraved. The tree of life which was mentioned in Genesis is also mentioned as the one we will eat from during the marriage of the lamb.

Christianity was born when the Earth was flat and the universe was believed to be the ornament to the Earth. Now the Earth is known to be spherical and orbiting the Sun, and the Sun is just a star out of 300 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy, and the Milky Way is just one of around 2 trillion galaxies in the universe.

A flat Earth that became spherical suggests that the earth was perfect before the fall. If GOD made the earth to be perfect, nothing could have brought it to a formless and void state of Genesis 1, to then become spherical. The Earth is spherical and will go from being spherical to a 4 square cube shape in the 8th dispensation when all has been perfected by the saviour of the world, the Son of Man. If heaven is not a real and physical world, there would've been no need for resurrection at all. Heaven is a real and physical world and if scientists can design something that can pass through the sun, they will see Eden live (remember that the first thing GOD said during creation was "light be". Which light was this when the Sun and moon were yet to be created on the 4th day? This was the making of Eden and it's light which is not the Sun, see also Revelation 21:23. Eden is our promise land, the city built of GOD's hand, which Abraham looked for). That was where Enoch went to, Elijah, Moses and the Our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ with those HE resurrected (Matthew 27:52), including Virgin Mary.

I cannot imagine where God is sitting in the fast of the universe. I cannot imagine where will I be as result of I followed Jesus. I just want to go away from this imperfect realm, from this place of miserable. And I believe in and rely on only Jesus, for only He make us know that we are living in a miserable place (John 3:18)

Death is not the way out. The reason for the race is because you are being pursued by death, because a mortal man is a dying man. Death leads into a worse kind of misery, and if this earth is bad enough, then trust me, you don't want to visit Abraham's Bosom. If your salvation is your goal (as it ought to be), this is the time to begin the race, as the only favourable way out is through transfiguration in life. There is the way, the truth and the life; finding the way brings you to the truth, the truth leads you to the life and the life leads you to the Christ, that was what the GOD incarnate meant, not that HE will lead you to the way, the truth and the life.
 
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pius463

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Sorry about this.



The good news of the gospel is that a mortal man with a limited life span can live ever-lasting, without having to die and be resurrected, before going to heaven.



The Laws that govern the physical body and the laws that governs the Soul are not the same for example the law of gravity is tied to physical mortal body, a ghost cannot experience that and there is no gravity in the ghost world. A man consist of Spirit, Soul and Body. The man is the Spirit and not the body, but to have an active existence in a physical world, the spirit requires a physical body. Salvation points to your Soul because the spirit is programmed in the Soul, before being baptized into the physical body. Therefore the Soul serves as the intermediary joining the spirit and the body. When the soul in which the spirit is programmed is forcefully separated from the physical body, death occurs. When this happens, that spirit in the Soul becomes a ghost. This state instantly disqualifies the person as a bona fide citizen of a physical world and qualified him as a citizen of the ghost world - hell for the sinners and Abraham's Bosom for the children of the kingdom, where they all await their resurrection and judgement (Luke 16:20-21). While the sinner is in tortures, the child of the kingdom continues the purging of his spirit from the wrong mindsets he acquired while in the earth (spirit of just men made perfect Hebrews 12:23). That system of death that exposes the soul, to give the spirit that unpleasant experience of dying at all is what the salvation of the Soul points to.



Revelation 21 and 22 have a little clue of what heaven is like and could not have been talking about a ghostly place and have details of walls, gates, trees, precious stones and names engraved. The tree of life which was mentioned in Genesis is also mentioned as the one we will eat from during the marriage of the lamb.



A flat Earth that became spherical suggests that the earth was perfect before the fall. If GOD made the earth to be perfect, nothing could have brought it to a formless and void state of Genesis 1, to then become spherical. The Earth is spherical and will go from being spherical to a 4 square cube shape in the 8th dispensation when all has been perfected by the saviour of the world, the Son of Man. If heaven is not a real and physical world, there would've been no need for resurrection at all. Heaven is a real and physical world and if scientists can design something that can pass through the sun, they will see Eden live (remember that the first thing GOD said during creation was "light be". Which light was this when the Sun and moon were yet to be created on the 4th day? This was the making of Eden and it's light which is not the Sun, see also Revelation 21:23. Eden is our promise land, the city built of GOD's hand, which Abraham looked for). That was where Enoch went to, Elijah, Moses and the Our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ with those HE resurrected (Matthew 27:52), including Virgin Mary.



Death is not the way out. The reason for the race is because you are being pursued by death, because a mortal man is a dying man. Death leads into a worse kind of misery, and if this earth is bad enough, then trust me, you don't want to visit Abraham's Bosom. If your salvation is your goal (as it ought to be), this is the time to begin the race, as the only favourable way out is through transfiguration in life. There is the way, the truth and the life; finding the way brings you to the truth, the truth leads you to the life and the life leads you to the Christ, that was what the GOD incarnate meant, not that HE will lead you to the way, the truth and the life.


It's a nice and an in-depth discussion.
Thank you.

I read Journey of Souls (Newton, 1996), Destiny of Souls (Newton, 2006), When We were Gods (Chapman, 2000), Courageous Souls (Schwartz, 2007), I learn a little about Buddhism and Hinduism. Your "system" is a similar to the system described in those books. However, your "system" has merged it with the Bible verses. Anyway, for me, it "was" true when we were outside Jesus' system (means, before we walk with Jesus).

I do not see the role of Jesus in your system, you wrote "If your salvation is your goal (as it ought to be), this is the time to begin the race, as the only favourable way out is through transfiguration in life. .... the truth leads you to the life and the life leads you to the Christ".
I am thinking of two approaches to come to God, they are "bottom up" and "top down".

In my opinion, religions and spirituality are now racing the "bottom up" approach (i.e. good things will bring one to God). They believe in God, they know that they have to differentiate between good and evil and that they have to do the good.
However, based on John 17:3, I believe this "bottom up" approach is hard to succeed because there is no certainty about the God they know, whether He is "the only true God" or else the "perceived God". Jesus come to teach humanity of this error.

The "top down" is an approach based on believe that Jesus is God and so He has the highest authority to teach about the truth. It is not based on human experiences or wisdom, it is not based on gods' teachings or the "perceived God"'s teachings, it is "the only true God" did speak.

The truth, among others, are the extreme "top down" rules revealed,
  1. Without Jesus, our souls is "sitting in the darkness (Isaiah 42:7)", already and will always be there "stands condemned ( John 3:18 )".
  2. John 8:24 - "if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."
  3. John 17:3 - "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."



John 14:6 "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Your understanding "finding the way brings you to the truth, the truth leads you to the life and the life leads you to the Christ";
My understanding "Jesus is the way. We have to walk along the way (His teachings), along the way the holy Spirit will guide us to know the truth ( John 16:12-15 ), the truth leads us to the life (to the eternal life, John 17:3).


A man consist of Spirit, Soul and Body.
The man is the Spirit and not the body, but to have an active existence in a physical world, the spirit requires a physical body.

Q: Who holds the rule for the spirit to require a physical body? Referring to John 3:18, does the spirit aware of it?

Salvation points to your Soul because the spirit is programmed in the Soul, before being baptized into the physical body. Therefore the Soul serves as the intermediary joining the spirit and the body.
Q: "the spirit is programmed in the Soul"; Does "HE" do the programming? Does it mean that "HE" also hold the rule for the spirit to require a physical body? If the answer is yes, then "HE" should not be Jesus because Jesus came to do the reverse.

When the soul in which the spirit is programmed is forcefully separated from the physical body, death occurs. When this happens, that spirit in the Soul becomes a ghost.
Q: What happened to the "collaboration" of the spirit and the soul? As "spirit in the Soul becomes a ghost", what happened to the soul?

This state instantly disqualifies the person as a bona fide citizen of a physical world and qualified him as a citizen of the ghost world - hell for the sinners and Abraham's Bosom for the children of the kingdom, where they all await their resurrection and judgement (Luke 16:20-21).
Q: "where they all await their resurrection and judgement"; What judgement will apply? How do they come to John 17:3?

While the sinner is in tortures, the child of the kingdom continues the purging of his spirit from the wrong mindsets he acquired while in the earth (spirit of just men made perfect Hebrews 12:23).
Q: "continues the purging"; Where and how does the purging work?
This is my understanding of how mindsets were made perfect:
John 13:10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean."
John 13:8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”
Taking an analogy of "feet" with "mindsets" (feet are the base for the physical, mindsets are the base for human responsible acts), then, taking "bath" as all the mindsets' effort for holiness before the only true God, while I believe that mindsets will never be perfect and pure, however, it happened, when the time come Jesus will wash the feet (mindsets) and makes one deserved to have part with Him.
 
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Newlyrestoredgospel777

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It's a nice and an in-depth discussion.
Thank you.

I read Journey of Souls (Newton, 1996), Destiny of Souls (Newton, 2006), When We were Gods (Chapman, 2000), Courageous Souls (Schwartz, 2007), I learn a little about Buddhism and Hinduism. Your "system" is a similar to the system described in those books. However, your "system" has merged it with the Bible verses. Anyway, for me, it "was" true when we were outside Jesus' system (means, before we walk with Jesus).

I do not see the role of Jesus in your system, you wrote "If your salvation is your goal (as it ought to be), this is the time to begin the race, as the only favourable way out is through transfiguration in life. .... the truth leads you to the life and the life leads you to the Christ".
I am thinking of two approaches to come to God, they are "bottom up" and "top down".

In my opinion, religions and spirituality are now racing the "bottom up" approach (i.e. good things will bring one to God). They believe in God, they know that they have to differentiate between good and evil and that they have to do the good.
However, based on John 17:3, I believe this "bottom up" approach is hard to succeed because there is no certainty about the God they know, whether He is "the only true God" or else the "perceived God". Jesus come to teach humanity of this error.

The "top down" is an approach based on believe that Jesus is God and so He has the highest authority to teach about the truth. It is not based on human experiences or wisdom, it is not based on gods' teachings or the "perceived God"'s teachings, it is "the only true God" did speak.

The truth, among others, are the extreme "top down" rules revealed,
  1. Without Jesus, our souls is "sitting in the darkness (Isaiah 42:7)", already and will always be there "stands condemned ( John 3:18 )".
  2. John 8:24 - "if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."
  3. John 17:3 - "Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."



John 14:6 "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
Your understanding "finding the way brings you to the truth, the truth leads you to the life and the life leads you to the Christ";
My understanding "Jesus is the way. We have to walk along the way (His teachings), along the way the holy Spirit will guide us to know the truth ( John 16:12-15 ), the truth leads us to the life (to the eternal life, John 17:3).


A man consist of Spirit, Soul and Body.
The man is the Spirit and not the body, but to have an active existence in a physical world, the spirit requires a physical body.

Q: Who holds the rule for the spirit to require a physical body? Referring to John 3:18, does the spirit aware of it?

Salvation points to your Soul because the spirit is programmed in the Soul, before being baptized into the physical body. Therefore the Soul serves as the intermediary joining the spirit and the body.
Q: "the spirit is programmed in the Soul"; Does "HE" do the programming? Does it mean that "HE" also hold the rule for the spirit to require a physical body? If the answer is yes, then "HE" should not be Jesus because Jesus came to do the reverse.

When the soul in which the spirit is programmed is forcefully separated from the physical body, death occurs. When this happens, that spirit in the Soul becomes a ghost.
Q: What happened to the "collaboration" of the spirit and the soul? As "spirit in the Soul becomes a ghost", what happened to the soul?

This state instantly disqualifies the person as a bona fide citizen of a physical world and qualified him as a citizen of the ghost world - hell for the sinners and Abraham's Bosom for the children of the kingdom, where they all await their resurrection and judgement (Luke 16:20-21).
Q: "where they all await their resurrection and judgement"; What judgement will apply? How do they come to John 17:3?

While the sinner is in tortures, the child of the kingdom continues the purging of his spirit from the wrong mindsets he acquired while in the earth (spirit of just men made perfect Hebrews 12:23).
Q: "continues the purging"; Where and how does the purging work?
This is my understanding of how mindsets were made perfect:
John 13:10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean."
John 13:8 “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”
Taking an analogy of "feet" with "mindsets" (feet are the base for the physical, mindsets are the base for human responsible acts), then, taking "bath" as all the mindsets' effort for holiness before the only true God, while I believe that mindsets will never be perfect and pure, however, it happened, when the time come Jesus will wash the feet (mindsets) and makes one deserved to have part with Him.
Thanks for your response.

You touched a lot of things, but I will start by saying that those books you read are not of GOD and cannot reach or lead any to GOD. There is spiritual knowledge and there is spiritism, the knowledge in those books is derived from adulterating spiritual knowledge with mysticism. What I say to you, I didn't read from any book. But hearing from that Elijah who was promised in Malachi 4:5-6 to restitute all things equips me with the right knowledge.

You need to understand the person of Our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ. HE is the GOD of creation, who must not be compared with or to any. In that incarnate state, HE was not in the earth as GOD, but in the shoes of the Son of GOD, Adam H.E (Luke 3:38). This was the reason HIS crucifixion was possible at all, as no one can kill GOD.

All ways lead to heaven and to GOD, if Jesus Christ H.P is the GOD, how then is HE the way to the GOD? Therefore what you need to do is to look at the one that HE came in His shoes to understand that statement.

There is the plan of salvation (the Logos), Interpreting the scriptures without the accurate knowledge or understanding of this plan ends in grave errors.

Bottom-up or up-bottom, there is only one way to GOD, and that way is through the Son. You cannot know or get to the GOD through any other way.

The GOD is Jesus Christ (H.P) while the Son is Adam (H.E), who happens to be the principal ancestor of the mankind race, whom you and I belong to. Locate your link to Him and find the proof and authenticity of GOD's Fatherhood to you; if you think GOD's Fatherhood is by assumption and discard Him, you will only realize that there is only ONE WAY and that discarding it is discarding also the truth and the life.

Knowledge is superior to belief and faith. GOD wants you to know HIM and not just believe or have faith in HIM.

I will recommend a video that will answer basically your questions. If you are interested, let me know, so that I will forward the link to you. Thanks
 
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pius463

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Thanks for your response.

You touched a lot of things, but I will start by saying that those books you read are not of GOD and cannot reach or lead any to GOD. There is spiritual knowledge and there is spiritism, the knowledge in those books is derived from adulterating spiritual knowledge with mysticism. What I say to you, I didn't read from any book. But hearing from that Elijah who was promised in Malachi 4:5-6 to restitute all things equips me with the right knowledge.

You need to understand the person of Our Supreme Lord Jesus Christ. HE is the GOD of creation, who must not be compared with or to any. In that incarnate state, HE was not in the earth as GOD, but in the shoes of the Son of GOD, Adam H.E (Luke 3:38). This was the reason HIS crucifixion was possible at all, as no one can kill GOD.

All ways lead to heaven and to GOD, if Jesus Christ H.P is the GOD, how then is HE the way to the GOD? Therefore what you need to do is to look at the one that HE came in His shoes to understand that statement.

There is the plan of salvation (the Logos), Interpreting the scriptures without the accurate knowledge or understanding of this plan ends in grave errors.

Bottom-up or up-bottom, there is only one way to GOD, and that way is through the Son. You cannot know or get to the GOD through any other way.

The GOD is Jesus Christ (H.P) while the Son is Adam (H.E), who happens to be the principal ancestor of the mankind race, whom you and I belong to. Locate your link to Him and find the proof and authenticity of GOD's Fatherhood to you; if you think GOD's Fatherhood is by assumption and discard Him, you will only realize that there is only ONE WAY and that discarding it is discarding also the truth and the life.

Knowledge is superior to belief and faith. GOD wants you to know HIM and not just believe or have faith in HIM.

I will recommend a video that will answer basically your questions. If you are interested, let me know, so that I will forward the link to you. Thanks

"those books you read are not of GOD", I agree. However, for me those books explain the real challenges living here in the "imperfect realm".

"Knowledge is superior to belief and faith. GOD wants you to know HIM and not just believe or have faith in HIM." I agree (John 17:3). I grew up from being an atheist to knowledge. If you read again this thread, you will understand if I have knowledge or just rely on faith.

Matthew 11:27 27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 16:12-15 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. (refer, John 10:30) That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”​

It is very likely that we walk on different track. I heard many things but I follow Jesus' track.
 
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Newlyrestoredgospel777

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"those books you read are not of GOD", I agree. However, for me those books explain the real challenges living here in the "imperfect realm".

"Knowledge is superior to belief and faith. GOD wants you to know HIM and not just believe or have faith in HIM." I agree (John 17:3). I grew up from being an atheist to knowledge. If you read again this thread, you will understand if I have knowledge or just rely on faith.

Matthew 11:27 27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 16:12-15 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. (refer, John 10:30) That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”​

It is very likely that we walk on different track. I heard many things but I follow Jesus' track.
If you read well, you will realize that we are exactly on the same path, just that I have a higher definition of the GOD. JESUS Christ (H.P) is the GOD of creation and HIS coming into the earth was not as GOD, but as the Son of GOD, who happens to be Adam (H.E). Therefore most times when you heard HIM talk about the FATHER, HE says that in the position of the Son of GOD and not as GOD.

But that manifestation does not mean that HE came in the spirit and body of Adam (H.E), but rather it is the express image of the invisible GOD, GOD in a size that can enter the earth of man.

So the whole time HE was on earth, HE played the role of that Son of GOD, to remind us of the past we were quick to forget, our root and principal ancestor, who was the one that paid the ultimate price for the entire race.

If you do not make sense of the saying that GOD sent HIS only begotten son to die for you, yet believed it, but cannot give your own beloved son to die for another, that kind of belief is not good for you, as you did not call that justice when it came to you.

Understand the truth, as it only the truth that will set you free. Jesus Christ(H.P) is GOD.
 
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pius463

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If you read well, you will realize that we are exactly on the same path, just that I have a higher definition of the GOD. JESUS Christ (H.P) is the GOD of creation and HIS coming into the earth was not as GOD, but as the Son of GOD, who happens to be Adam (H.E). Therefore most times when you heard HIM talk about the FATHER, HE says that in the position of the Son of GOD and not as GOD.

But that manifestation does not mean that HE came in the spirit and body of Adam (H.E), but rather it is the express image of the invisible GOD, GOD in a size that can enter the earth of man.

So the whole time HE was on earth, HE played the role of that Son of GOD, to remind us of the past we were quick to forget, our root and principal ancestor, who was the one that paid the ultimate price for the entire race.

If you do not make sense of the saying that GOD sent HIS only begotten son to die for you, yet believed it, but cannot give your own beloved son to die for another, that kind of belief is not good for you, as you did not call that justice when it came to you.

Understand the truth, as it only the truth that will set you free. Jesus Christ(H.P) is GOD.


Thank you.
So we are on the same path: Jesus Christ is God.
But, we understand the complexity of explaining the confession to the world. Let's work together to explain it the simple way.
Right now according to my understanding, a thing most unclear explained in Christian faith is the Triune God. We know, Jesus had never taught about the Triune God, there is no teaching about the Triune God in the Bible.

Mark 12:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one."​

Among others, we also have sentences in controversy.
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.”
John 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."​

I am preparing my "long" explanation; hope to finish within two days. If you have any, please share.
 
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pius463

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Let’s begin with:

Mark 12:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one."

Mark 12:29 means, if Jesus Christ is God then we have to find in the Gospels that (1) the Father is God, (2) that Jesus and the Father are one, (3) that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one.

(1) To know that the Father is God

Jesus taught the disciples to pray “our Father”.
What is the meaning of a prayer? To whom is a prayer addressed?
I define a prayer is always and is only meant and addressed to God.
Jesus could not be wrong in His teachings, those lead to first conclusion: The Father is God.

(2) To know the oneness of Jesus and the Father

a) An introduction:

(Luke 8:43-48) And a woman afflicted with hemorrhages for twelve years, who had spent her whole livelihood on doctors and was unable to be cured by anyone, came up behind him and touched the tassel on his cloak. Immediately her bleeding stopped. .... When the woman realized that she had not escaped notice, she came forward trembling. Falling down before him, she explained in the presence of all the people why she had touched him and how she had been healed immediately. (48) He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has saved you; go in peace."​

Jesus addressed the woman, “Daughter”.
Now, what was the age of Jesus and what was the age of that woman? In the social community, was it upright that Jesus addressed the woman with the title “Daughter”?
Who is proper to address one with “Daughter”? It is a greeting by a father. Here indirectly, Jesus was introducing Himself, that He is our Father.

b) Jesus introduced that He and the Father are one

I quote the sentences:

(John 10:30) The Father and I are one."

(John 12:45) "and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me."

(John 14:9) .... Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father'?​

(John 14:10) Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works.​

(John 14:11) Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.​

Those five sentences are taught in plain words, we need only to accept, I mean no explanation is needed.

With the acceptance, we may conclude that: Jesus Christ and the Father are one.

Then, we may also conclude that: The Father is God. Jesus Christ and the Father are one. Jesus Christ is God.


(3) To know the oneness of Jesus and the Holy Spirit
What does the Gospels say?

a) In the beginning, about the birth of Jesus Christ,

(Luke 1:35) “.... The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. ....”​

The sentence declares that the Holy Spirit came upon the Virgin Mary.
With that in mind, I like to say: Mary conceived the Holy Spirit and Mary delivered a baby named Jesus; therefore, it might be concluded: The Holy Spirit and Jesus are one.

b) In the end of the story, near by the time for Jesus to leave the disciples,

(John 14:18) I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.​

Jesus promised that He would not leave the disciples (and us) as orphans, and Jesus promised to come back.
Look to what Jesus said: “I will come to you”. Jesus did not say that He will send others. Look also to the sentence that follows, Jesus repeated His promise,

(John 14:28) ... I am going away and I will come back to you. .…​

What is the meaning of “will come back to you” in John 14:28? Are the words addressed to His disciples as the hearers or to the Church's members in the coming age? If it were addressed either to the disciples or to the Church's members, it means till now Jesus has not come back, because until now neither the disciples nor the Church's members witnessed Jesus has come back.

Or, shall we conclude that Jesus has come back based on John 20:11-29, Luke 24:13-49, Mark 16:9-18, Matthew 28:16-20 (after resurrection, Jesus appeared to His disciples)?

I don’t think so. Because, Jesus did ascend to the place He came from (Mark 16:19, Luke 24:50-51), and, since the time He has never come back.

Is it possible that Jesus does not keep His promise?
Is it possible that Jesus has come back, but we make mistake to understand?

If Jesus has not come back, it significantly shows that Jesus left the disciples as orphans, and it is unmatched to His promise.

I believe Jesus always keeps His promise. It means, Jesus has come back. We will try to find the supporting statement for this.

Luke 1:35 - Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one.
Acts 2:1-40 - the coming of the Holy Spirit.
John 14:17 ".... the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you."

Our thought likely are biased by an expectation to see the returning of Jesus in a figure as seen every day by the disciples. (We are biased by the perceived second coming of Jesus.) So, we failed to recognize that Jesus has come back, not in the appearance like the one usually seen by the disciples, but, He has come back as the Holy Spirit. We’ll see.

What Jesus means by the world in John 14:17?
As are the many words of Jesus, the word “world” here may have multiple interpretations. I take two. The first meaning, “world” in the meaning of people in general. The second meaning, “world” in the meaning with physical eyes.

The second meaning means that with our naked physical eyes we cannot see Him.

We are expected to change over from the level of physical eyes to the level of soul’s eye.
At the soul level, we may see and recognize Him. At the soul level, we may believe that Jesus has come back. What we do not realize is, Jesus has come back as the Holy Spirit.

Now, it is the moment for us to come to the next recognition: The Father is God; The Father and Jesus are one, Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit and Jesus are one, the Holy Spirit is God.

Further, let’s consider the validity of the following three sentences carefully:

(John 14:14) If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.
(John 16:23) .... I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.
(John 16:26) On that day you will ask in my name, and I do not tell you that I will ask the Father for you.​

A teaching like John 16:26 is to be spoken out only by the One to whom a prayer is addressed.
We know that a prayer is always addressed to God.
Look carefully how John 16:26 strengthens John 16:23 and John 14:14.

I’d like to say, the “that day (John 16:26)” has come to me; I hope it has come to you, too.

As a closing, I want to put here John 20:28, ‘Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and my God!"‘
Look Jesus did not refuse to be respected as the “Lord and God”. It confirms Jesus is God.

It is common to say that “Jesus is God and man.”
Now, since Jesus had return to His glory - to the glory of the true God and does not stand a man, in my understanding,
Jesus Christ is God,
and, Jesus Christ was God and man,
but, Jesus Christ is no more a man.​
He taught us to address Him “Father”, and He taught us to call His name “Jesus (my name)” as He said in John 16:26, “On that day you will ask in my name, and I do not tell you that I will ask the Father for you.”


Final conclusion:
Now, from the quotations and the narrations, I may not make a mistake to conclude and to believe that,
• The Father is God;
• The Father and Jesus Christ are one;
• The Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ are one;
• Jesus Christ and the Father and the Holy Spirit are one;
• Jesus Christ is the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit;
• Jesus Christ is God.

The doubting verses
To the believer those conclusions might be easily accepted.
However, the doubting ones might bring to us the sentences in controversy with the above conlusion, for example:

John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”

John 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.​

(Matthew 28:18) Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”​

Based on my believe that Jesus Christ is God, I will gave my answer.
Slowly.

An Introduction
In the Gospels, Jesus did not immediately introduce His divinity, nor did He introduce himself as the Messiah. First, Luke 1:35 introduced Jesus as the Son of God. He then taught. His teachings and miracles attracted many people. He was then honored as a teacher, then as a prophet, and later some honored Him as the Messiah. But it did not stop there, sometime later, Jesus was secretly introducing His divinity (John 10:30). "I and the Father are one." (The divinity of Jesus only appears in the Gospel by John, it does not appear in the three synoptic Gospels.)

Q: Why didn’t Jesus plainly and directly say that He is God?
A: The Work of Salvation is addressed to all regardless of their level of awareness. God knows that humanity still have to grow. Knowing the only true God is not something dictated, it is something that humanity must step up the staircase of recognition.

We see, there’s ascending recognition by people about who Jesus is.

We know, nowadays and in that days many people accepted Jesus as a man, and stop.
We know, nowadays and in that days many people accepted Jesus as a teacher, and stop.
We know, nowadays and in that days many people accepted Jesus as a prophet, and stop.
We know, nowadays and in that days many people accepted Jesus as the Messiah, the Christ, the Savior, and stop.
We know, nowadays and in that days many people accepted Jesus as the Son of God, the Son of the living God, and stop.
We know, nowadays and in that days some people accepted Jesus as God, and they have come to John 17:3.

Q: What differentiates one and the other recognition of Jesus?

Matthew 10:41 Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward.​

A: What will be the reward for welcoming the only true God as God?


Giving answer to the likely controversies
What I heard so far, the common answers to the likely controversies are based on positioning Jesus as being a human, that Jesus at that time were acting not as that He is God.

I believe Jesus had never been a mere man. He is God whenever and eternally is God. Making conclusion that Jesus had ever a mere man, or a mere Messiah, or a mere the Son of God, those brought complications.

Now, the answers below will be based on Jesus is God. Jesus was a good teacher to mankind of all level; a good teacher would not dictate but would guide the disciples to grow to understand. Jesus knew that mankind is growing in its knowledge and awareness, so it is a matter of time to understand.


The Father is greater than Jesus

John 14:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.​

Anti-thesis or controversy:
Jesus said that "the Father is greater than I", it is an evidence that Jesus is not God, because Jesus is smaller than the Father.

Pro-thesis or interpretation of Jesus' divine support:
Jesus is God. God is Unlimited Greatness. Jesus we can see is not all the Unlimited Greatness.

Jesus said “I am going to the Father” means Jesus is going back to His unlimited greatness; “for the Father is greater than I” means: “Do not imagine the Father is limited as you all see Me.”

Can the disciples imagine Jesus? Yes, they saw Him, they were able to picture Jesus.
Can the disciples imagine God? No. If they can, it must be a mistake. There is no creation capable of exploring the greatness of God. No creation can picture God.
Based on the words of Jesus, "I and the Father are one. (John 10:30) ", the disciples may imagine that God is like Jesus; the imagination is not true, Jesus they see is not the whole greatness of God.

Within the context of God's unfathomable greatness, Jesus said "for the Father is greater than I. (John 10:28) "; Jesus did not say “I am smaller than the Father.”

John 10:30 is true in the sense that Jesus and the Father are one.
John 10:28 is true in the sense of teaching to the disciples not to imagine the Father in the same limits as the visible Jesus.
Jesus goes to the Father has the meaning that, Jesus who seems limited is returning to His unlimited glory. That is the hidden meaning of "for the Father is greater than I."

It is not wrong to stay on the conclusion: Jesus Christ is God.
John 14:28 doesn’t have the meaning that Jesus is smaller than the Father. The anti-thesis has interpreted John 14:28 in the wrong way.


All Power Were Given to Jesus

(Matthew 28:18) Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”​

Anti-thesis.
If Jesus is God the almighty, from where again He needed to receive the power?

Pro-thesis.
To get the answer, we shall try to answer this question: Who is the powerful before the power was given to Jesus?
It is common to say God is almighty, there is no power above.

This is not an easy thing to understand or to explain. This is related to the grain that is plucked out in the parable of the wheat and the reeds (Matthew 13: 24-30); This is related to the stone (the corners) which the builders throw away (Luke 20:17); This is related to the teaching of Jesus that John did not write in his Gospel (John 21:25); It is related to "hallowed be your name (NIV)" "let your name be kept holy (GW)" in the prayer "our Father" (Matthew 6: 9).

Shortly, contemplating on the meaning "let your name be kept holy", holy means without spot. So: Why do we put spots in God’s name?

Unconsciously man attributed the unworthiness in God’s name, such as: God punishes, God is testing or tempting, God must be feared, God records and counts our sins, etc.

God is good, God is holy, God does not deserve the unworthiness.
Should there be any unworthiness attribute, it must be removed. We must keep God's name holy (without any spot of negative attribute). Any negative attribute is a misconception by man about God. In other words, when a man cannot remove the negative attributes, the man is really acquainted to his or her “perceived God” and not to “the only true God”.

Back to the question, "If Jesus is God the almighty, from where again He needed to receive the power?"

Q: Who is in charge the ruler of this world before it is given to Lord Jesus?
A: Before that power is given to Lord Jesus, the one in charge the ruler is “the ruler of this world”.

(John 12:31) “Now is the judgement of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out.”​

The ruler was not Lord Jesus, the ruler was not the true God.

Before Lord Jesus came, man were unaware of "the only true God (John 17: 3)". Man knew the "shadow of God" but unaware of "the only true God". Notice how mankind grew up from animism to polytheism to monotheism and still now continue to come to know "the true God."

By being present in the flesh, through His teaching, His example, passion, death, and resurrection from the death, Jesus conquered the "shadow of God" and introduced "the only true God"; Jesus conquered the wrong mindset about God and bring knowledge about “the only true of God”.

With John 12:31, Lord Jesus says that the ruler of the world has submitted to Him, that all power has been given to Him. Now, the true God is not only has the power in heaven but also in power over the earth. Now the kingdom of God has come.
This gives answer to the anti-thesis.

What is the definition of God's kingdom? The kingdom of God is the kingdom where God (the only true God) reigns.
Before, mankind unknowingly glorified "the ruler of the world" who is not "the only true God", now mankind are introduced and guided to glorify “the only true God".

The kingdom of God comes not through a violent conquest. The kingdom of God comes through the awakening of consciousness of wrong mindsets and actions. Man is not forced to become a member of the Kingdom of God, man enters into the Kingdom of God through knowing the truth ( John 17:3 ).

Lord Jesus has defeated the ruler of the world, and man has the opportunity to end his suffering ( John 3:18). Because, Lord Jesus is God.
 
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