God's Love

toLiJC · Aug 7, 2017

SBC said:
I disagree, one who is cleasnsed from all sin ..........still sins.

God Bless,
SBC

there must be no sin, and the spiritual servants/workers must not sin, but this means that human and other (be)souled beings and all souls in general (must) be provided with abundant and eternal life, which is the purpose of faith, because sin is (first of all) spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, or, IOW, the spiritual/religious activity that brings non-salvation/destruction to the world

Blessings

SBC · Aug 7, 2017

Phantasman said:
You teach Orthodoxy. My views are in direct controversy with Orthodoxy. But that doesn't mean we both don't seek Christ and his truth.

I simply seek Gods understanding, then serve Him, by speaking what He reveals.
"orthodox" is simply saying, what is acceptable to men.
I don't consider what other men are saying is acceptable to them. My consideration is what is acceptable to God. And why, I don't fit in with most of the other FORUMS on this site.

I don't see Eden as you do.

I see Eden, as a Good place ON Earth, with a Good man, a Good woman, a Good God teaching them Truths.

I see the Good place, the Good man, the Good woman becoming corrupt and the Good God becoming separated from them.

I see the entirety of Scripture teaching HOW God shall restore the corrupt place, back to being Good, and HOW a corrupt man & woman can be restored back to being Good, and that the GOOD GOD, shall then again BE with such restored Good things.

I used to (Nazarene for 26 years). But through seeking and prayer, I have a different perspective of Eden that helps me see the Gospel message.

Knowledge saved us.

I would not be so simplistic. Knowledge, is simply information, and can be true or false. It is the Knowledge of TRUTH, that is paramount. It is a man who trusts to believe and submit to the Truth, that becomes the moment, the Lord acts, and saves the man.

The Tree of Life was knowledge (of spirit).

Agree - the Tree of Life IS knowledge.....AND.....is Wisdom.....AND....is Understanding.

Adam and Eve gained Knowledge.....as many men do.
Problem is.....ONE bite of a little knowledge.....is not gaining wisdom or understanding.

For a man to be "sustained" By the Tree of Life....He must KEEP eating of it....to gain the wisdom AND understanding "OF" the knowledge.

You can see it HERE, all day long, men agreeing on the KNOWLEDGE, yet disagreeing on the wisdom and understanding of the knowledge.

You can see it HERE, all day long, men giving their BASIS for their "wisdom" and their "understanding"; quoting philosophers, quoting Popes, quoting other men.

When Scripture clearly reveals, it is Christ who is the Wisdom, and Christ the Lord who "gives" a man "understanding".

Man was created flesh with a soul.

I disagree.

A flesh body and a living soul are two separate things, that are the identity of one man.

Gen 2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

Man is a FORM, a Body, made from DUST of the earth.

[7] and

And THEN, something NOT from the Dust of the earth, was given "the man", ie "the body".

[7]... the breath of life;

God IS life. His Breath IS LIFE. Everything that IS God, IS Life.

[7] breathed into his nostrils

God imparting His breath INTO the form (body), He made, Is HOW He imparted LIFE into the Body, ie Form, He made, and He called man.

[7] and

Then something happened to the Form, ie Body, ie Man

[7] man became a living soul.

The man became alive. Called a "living" soul. No longer called a Man? no. No longer called a Form? no Now called a: a man, a form, a alive man, a living man, a living form, a living soul.

It is two different things, from two different sources, called by one identity.

No spirit.

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Well, not exactly. First you have to consider, what is "spirit".
If you believe, God is Spirit, God is Truth; Gods Spirit is Truth.
If you believe, God is Spirit, God is Power; Gods Spirit is Power.

If you believe, man is natural, and man was made in the image and likeness of God.
Natural man has what God has.
Natural man has a Body, God appeared in a Body, that looks like a man's body.
God / called Christ Jesus, left this earth, in His glorious Body.
Natural man has a living soul, given him, by God. God is Life, and has a Living soul.
Natural man has natural truths, which IS his natural spirit. God is TRUTH, which is His supreme untainted Spirit.

WHEN a natural man (who is corrupt) becomes Reconciled unto God.
Several corruptions of the natural man occur.
The natural corrupt flesh becomes DEAD, "with Christ", meaning forgiven, justified, sanctified, and reserved, to become REDEEMED, ie claimed, and changed into a glorified body.

The Heart, or otherwise, the vessel/chamber/place, where the "spirit", ie the natural truth of man IS, becomes "circumcised", or otherwise, called being given a "new heart".

The "spirit" of man, becomes; born again. The first birth, was VIA, a mans "seed", and thus the spirit is natural. The second birth (ie born again), is VIA, Gods "Seed".

Once a man's spirit is "born again"; That "spirit of man", is now the mans truth, the mans spirit, that is in the mans heart. And it is the same truth, as the Spirit within him, which is Gods Spirit, Gods Truth, feeding the mans spirit, ie feeding; ie teaching, giving.

The living soul, within the man, becomes "forgiven" for being corrupt, and becomes "restored", back to being NOT Corrupt, and is thus, Saved unto God, and Saved from the consequence of being destroyed in hell.

The "bread" of this Tree was not death but life.

Uh huh. And? They did not eat of the Tree of Life. They ate of the Tree of Good and Evil. They gained knowledge of Good AND Evil.

This god lied.

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What "god" are you talking about?

The Apocyphon of John, as well as other none Canon scriptures, explain that the son of God was the light in the Tree.

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Christ Jesus IS the True Light. God is the True Light. It is Gods Tree of Life, that is He that gives a man the Truth, VIA, His Word, His Knowledge, His Wisdom, His Power - BY His Power to do those things.

It was Satan who draped himself across the Tree of Good and Evil and enticed the woman to partake of the fruit. He didn't "give" it to her. She focused her attention on what was forbidden, and then herself "took" what was forbidden.

He wanted to save man (soul) from those who told him to eat only from their fruits.

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Not sure who "He" is you speak of, since introducing, "a lying god".

It is thee Lord God, who forbid they eat of his tree of "good and evil".
It is thee Lord God, who was teaching them "truths".
They were not yet FULL of "truths", mature, wise, to be prepared to recognize what was "not true".

It is Satan who lied to the woman.

God said; (NO eating, NO touching, for in the day you do, you shall die)
Gen 2
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Satan said;
Gen 2
[4] And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Man transgressed, which means to go beyond the limits of.

Yes.

Gen 3
[3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3
[6]... she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
[12] And the man said, ... I did eat.
[13] And ...the woman said, ... I did eat.

He received the spirit that Jesus says makes us alive.

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He who? Adam? No. Adam did not eat of the Tree of Life. Adam ate from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

Adam was then "forgiven" and "sent" away from God, out of the garden, which is separated from God. And a separation from God IS DEATH. Adam's body and soul became separated from God, in the day he ate from the forbidden tree.

This god of Eden was a liar and murderer from the beginning (John 8 ). He is the god of this world (Paul).

No.

The God of Eden IS thee Lord Gods.
Adam was not created IN the garden.
Satan was not cast down TO the garden.

Man or Satan BEING IN Gods Garden, was not prohibited. UNTIL, Satan in the garden, LIED, and Man in the garden Disobeyed. Then BOTH were banished out of the garden, By Gods Power, because it is Gods Garden to keep and do with and allow whom He pleases.

All things created are through the Father but not of the Father.

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I disagree. All things are created "BY", "OF" and "THROUGH" : Lord God Almighty.
BY - the Lord Jesus - WORD
Of - God - HIS IDEA
THROUGH - Almighty Power- HIS SUPREME POWER

Ignorance is not of the Father. Nor is imperfection.

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Correct.

The world, heavens, as well as man is imperfect. It is not of the Father.

Agree.

The only perfect thing in this world is spirit, which the world and the ignorant cannot see.

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Disagree in part.
Perfect/holy ?
Gods Spirit, yes. Mans restored (saved) soul, yes. Mans quickened (born again) spirit, yes. Mans new heart, yes. Mans physical flesh, no. Mans dead flesh, kept with Christ, yes.

And Jesus showed us the spirit, the power it had and has over this world, and that it is a gift for anyone to use, if they only have the knowledge from the Father to use it.

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I would more so say, knowledge, is open and available for anyone. That the "understanding" is reserved for those who believe and submit.

My thoughts aren't orthodox.

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I would say, my thoughts, I seek spiritually, and do not favor philosophies of men.

For both of us there is only faith and hope. No proof. My faith in my belief shows me a better understanding in what Christ says.

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I seek God for His understanding and am trusting and satisfied with what He shows me.

And my view of the Father is not one who physically slaughtered men to make his name known.(OT).

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My view is God created "things", and imparts and departs life from Him, in and out of those "things", as it pleases Him.

A perfect spirit would do such as Jesus showed (his Father).

These are just what I have found from many years of seeking knowledge in the books prevalent in the 1-3 centuries.

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My view is, Knowledge is revealed by hearing, and by reading. Understanding of the knowledge, comes from God Himself.

God Bless,
SBC

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SBC · Aug 8, 2017

ICONO'CLAST said:
SBC,
The word of God describes two kind of people those that are under the Dominion or power of the flesh that's the natural man and then those who are saved by the Spirit of God they're under the power of the Spirit.

Every man BEGINS his natural life, under the dominion of the natural flesh.
So yes, that is one condition of mankind.

And yes, every natural man, WHO "becomes" in belief and submitted faithfulness to God, is an other condition of mankind.

But scripture also teaches of the "natural" man WHO, first is learning ABOUT God, and that condition of mankind; is per the individual man; is a necessary part that hopefully leads the man to ELECT TO CHOOSE, a submission unto God.

There is no particular "time-frame" for an individual man to learn ABOUT God. We can read the disciples of Jesus, spent about 3 years DAILY, learning directly from Jesus.
We can also examine general orthodox ways, which is a man going to Church, for two hours, once a week, hearing a sermon, and being good to go 'till a week later.
Sure, some may read at home, but I would lean more to; TV, ballgames and work, being a priority.

The disciples spent nearly 10,000 hours in about 3 years learning about God, before becoming saved and born again.

And an average for a man today, first going to hear, is about 340 hours in 3 continuous years learning about God.

In other words, my point is a mans LEARNING, is the man IN-BETWEEN; not being totally ignorant of God, but not yet being saved and born again.

That Learning stage, is a man being enlightened, BY THE WORD of GOD.
I do not believe that man is saved or born again, but I absolutely believe the Word of God, is God, and is the Word being fed the man, is God, being with the man, because of the willingness and the choice of the man to seek and hear and learn.

I believe that "learning" stage is a huge part of consideration, but someone it seems you have no consideration for that, as you describe only two considerations.

I will agree, that when the end arrives, at Christ's return; or when a mans physical life ends; yep, it will be pretty concrete, with God or against God....and IMO, why it is impressed to not dally and think you have all the time in the world, to get around to learning, and making choices concerning God.

That's the spiritual man there's no such thing as a natural man who understands the things of the Spirit of God because of natural man doesn't have the Spirit of God .

That's the basic thing you need to get right.

You could talk all you want but until you get that right you going to make no progress in this area at all.

Thanks for the lecture; however I have never said a natural man has the understanding of God; so your lecture was without merit or necessary.

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Aug 8, 2017

toLiJC said:
there must be no sin, and the spiritual servants/workers must not sin, but this means that human and other (be)souled beings and all souls in general (must) be provided with abundant and eternal life, which is the purpose of faith, because sin is (first of all) spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, or, IOW, the spiritual/religious activity that brings non-salvation/destruction to the world

Blessings

I am not getting you.

In one respect you say;

but we sin even when we believe the true God

and

there must be no sin,

I don't see how that can apply to the SAME one man.

God Bless,
SBC

toLiJC · Aug 8, 2017

SBC said:
toLiJC said:

there must be no sin, and the spiritual servants/workers must not sin, but this means that human and other (be)souled beings and all souls in general (must) be provided with abundant and eternal life, which is the purpose of faith, because sin is (first of all) spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness, or, IOW, the spiritual/religious activity that brings non-salvation/destruction to the world

Blessings

Click to expand...

I am not getting you.

In one respect you say;

toLiJC said:

but we sin even when we believe the true God

Click to expand...

and

toLiJC said:

there must be no sin,

Click to expand...

I don't see how that can apply to the SAME one man.

God Bless,
SBC

why must you waste my time with lies?!, you quoted a cut of a sentence, not the entire text, but claim the person who wrote it contradicts himself?!

you know that i meant we sin if we make the true God out to be bad/evil or a creator of evil, but you didn't quote the entire text (which is here: God's Love)

Blessings

SBC · Aug 8, 2017

toLiJC said:
why must you waste my time with lies?!, you quoted a cut of a sentence, not the entire text, but claim the person who wrote it contradicts himself?!

Twice, I quoted your full text.
Twice, I said I did not get what you were trying to convey.

toLiJC said: ↑
i don't accuse/judge you, but we sin even when we believe the true God did/created something bad, let alone when we preach such things

I'll stick with my original comment. (I do not agree.) Because that "we", may apply to you, but does not apply to me.

If you think accusing an other of lying, is an appropriate response, for an ongoing conversation, which twice your full text was repeated, that's on you.

you know that i meant we sin if we make the true God out to be bad/evil or a creator of evil, but you didn't quote the entire text (which is here: God's Love)

Twice, I made it clear, I did not get what you were trying to convey.
What you said made NO sense whatsoever, for a person claiming to be saved, to say,
"we" sin.....

What "saved man" would say such nonsense?
And "why", pose your comment, to a believer, saying "we" ?
Doesn't that imply, you? me?

You said;

"i don't accuse/judge you, but we sin even when we believe the true God did/created something bad, let alone when we preach such things"

No clue why you said that to me. Because it looks like, you were trying to imply, I believed or preached "God did/created something bad"; but that you were not going to "judge" me.

Well, that is not the case. I don't believe or preach against God.
And you can make accusations, call me a liar, or judge me if you choose.
And you can claim I know what you meant, after twice I told you otherwise.
And you can keep your time from being wasted, by not posting to me.

God Bless,
SBC

toLiJC · Aug 8, 2017

SBC said:
Twice, I quoted your full text.
Twice, I said I did not get what you were trying to convey.

I'll stick with my original comment. (I do not agree.) Because that "we", may apply to you, but does not apply to me.

If you think accusing an other of lying, is an appropriate response, for an ongoing conversation, which twice your full text was repeated, that's on you.

Twice, I made it clear, I did not get what you were trying to convey.
What you said made NO sense whatsoever, for a person claiming to be saved, to say,
"we" sin.....

What "saved man" would say such nonsense?
And "why", pose your comment, to a believer, saying "we" ?
Doesn't that imply, you? me?

You said;

No clue why you said that to me. Because it looks like, you were trying to imply, I believed or preached "God did/created something bad"; but that you were not going to "judge" me.

Well, that is not the case. I don't believe or preach against God.
And you can make accusations, call me a liar, or judge me if you choose.
And you can claim I know what you meant, after twice I told you otherwise.
And you can keep your time from being wasted, by not posting to me.

God Bless,
SBC

can't i witness to the truth of God without accusing/judging(condemning) anybody?!, why must i do evil when i can overcome evil with good?!, so someone is telling you he doesn't accuse/judge(condemn) you, but you are so hasty to make him out to be your enemy?!

if i said "you sin" instead of "we sin", then there would really be a reason for you to say that i accuse/judge you, but i just clarified what the universal law is as to these things, because that is what is useful/helpful - let's say people that read this thread will be able to know how to practice the faith right if they find therein the truth about how to practice the faith right...

and what do you suggest?!, to believe and preach that the true God is evil/unrighteous/sinful, or what?! (it is like saying that people should trust a relentless/ruthless murderer...) - as for me and this matter, i don't even dare to think that the true God is bad/evil, let alone believe or preach that He is bad/evil, and why?, let us remember what happened to the servant who (for all his spiritual life) had believed God is bad/evil (Matthew 25:14-30)

Blessings

SBC · Aug 8, 2017

toLiJC said:
can't i witness to the truth of God without accusing/judging(condemning) anybody?!, why must i do evil when i can overcome evil with good?!, so someone is telling you he doesn't accuse/judge(condemn) you, but you are so hasty to make him out to be your enemy?!

IF, I had decided you were, or anyone else is my enemy; "I" would be the one to announce that. Not your place to speak for me.

if i said "you sin" instead of "we sin", then there would really be a reason for you to say that i accuse/judge you, but i just clarified what the universal law is as to these things, because that is what is useful/helpful - let's say people that read this thread will be able to know how to practice the faith right if they find therein the truth about how to practice the faith right...

I do not have to include myself with the unforgiven, to teach the unforgiven.
And that is what you appeared to me to be doing, so I disagreed;

and what do you suggest?!, to believe and preach that the true God is evil/unrighteous/sinful, or what?!

I didn't bring up such a thing, you did, and was surprising to me that you did.

(it is like saying that people should trust a relentless/ruthless murderer...) - as for me and this matter, i don't even dare to think that the true God is bad/evil, let alone believe or preach that He is bad/evil,

So, what was your whole point of even saying such a thing? Made no sense to me whatsoever for a believer to bring up such a thing to another believer.

and why?, let us remember what happened to the servant who (for all his spiritual life) had believed God is bad/evil (Matthew 25:14-30)

I don't require a lesson on WHY a believer would reject such notion.
I simply do not know WHY you thought that an appropriate thing to say to a believer.
If you want to teach UNBELIEVERS, address them.

God Bless,
SBC

toLiJC · Aug 8, 2017

SBC said:
IF, I had decided you were, or anyone else is my enemy; "I" would be the one to announce that. Not your place to speak for me.

do you really think that every person in the universe will prefer and choose to waste their time with vain encounter, duel or war only because of your decision?!

SBC said:
I do not have to include myself with the unforgiven, to teach the unforgiven.
And that is what you appeared to me to be doing, so I disagreed;

and why wouldn't the true God forgive people that are unoffending/harmless enough according to Him even if some of them are irreligious and non-occult?!, but if according to Him you are (too) unrighteous to be allowed to enter and live in e.g. the "third heaven"(2 Corinthians 12:1-6), who will manage to prevent Him from excluding you from there?!

SBC said:
I didn't bring up such a thing, you did, and was surprising to me that you did.

but you still don't say what exactly you propose?! - it even seems as if you just try to impose or domineer

SBC said:
So, what was your whole point of even saying such a thing? Made no sense to me whatsoever for a believer to bring up such a thing to another believer.

one true doctor would know that people who are not professional enough doctors should not be involved or included as doctors in professional medical activities, or, to put it anther way, would you prefer your personal doctor to be someone who is not experienced enough to cure you of all possible diseases?!, so why must we involve or include irreligious and non-occult people as spiritual servants in [sacramental works requiring high insight or skills] especially if they are not serious enough to do that job?!

SBC said:
I don't require a lesson on WHY a believer would reject such notion.
I simply do not know WHY you thought that an appropriate thing to say to a believer.
If you want to teach UNBELIEVERS, address them.

God Bless,
SBC

it has already become too obvious that you oppose for no good reason, but i am here to witness to the truth of the true God, not to shirk from responsibility

and know that the good doctor doesn't need the consent or approval of anyone to know that his patients need a true treatment/healing, so neither you nor i can best tell the true God what He should do - if He is strong and powerful enough to save all souls and provide them with abundant and eternal life, and if He has intended to do it since the very beginning, believe me, no one and nothing will be able to stop/prevent Him from doing and accomplishing it... - but what will happen to people that oppose Him and hamper His mission, i cannot guarantee..., i only know that there may be a very great punishment for such people...

Blessings

ToBeLoved · Aug 8, 2017

Who and which text are you replying to?

ICONO'CLAST · Aug 8, 2017

SBC,

[Every man BEGINS his natural life, under the dominion of the natural flesh.
So yes, that is one condition of mankind.]
ok
[And yes, every natural man, WHO "becomes" in belief and submitted faithfulness to God, is an other condition of mankind.]
no natural man...becomes, God turns natural men into Spiritual men by new birth
But scripture also teaches of the "natural" man WHO, first is learning ABOUT God, and that condition of mankind;
God has ordained all the means needed to turn a natural man , into a Spiritual man.

[is per the individual man; is a necessary part that hopefully leads the man to ELECT TO CHOOSE, a submission unto God.]

Man does not as you say...ELECT TO CHOOSE A SUBMISSION TO GOD....
NATURAL MAN ELECTS SIN AND REBELLION TO GOD

[In other words, my point is a mans LEARNING, is the man IN-BETWEEN; not being totally ignorant of God, but not yet being saved and born again.

That Learning stage, is a man being enlightened, BY THE WORD of GOD.
I do not believe that man is saved or born again, but I absolutely believe the Word of God, is God, and is the Word being fed the man, is God, being with the man, because of the willingness and the choice of the man to seek and hear and learn.

I believe that "learning" stage is a huge part of consideration, but someone it seems you have no consideration for that, as you describe only two considerations.]

Everyone knows that events take place between an unsaved person in sin, being effectually drawn by God to Jesus. It is not however that he just needs a l;ittle more information, it is a supernatural work of God.

I will agree, that when the end arrives, at Christ's return; or when a mans physical life ends; yep, it will be pretty concrete, with God or against God....and IMO, why it is impressed to not dally and think you have all the time in the world, to get around to learning, and making choices concerning God.
Glad we agree on this

[Thanks for the lecture; however I have never said a natural man has the understanding of God; so your lecture was without merit or necessary]
There was no lecture...but let the readers decide.

SBC · Aug 8, 2017

toLiJC said:
do you really think that every person in the universe will prefer and choose to waste their time with vain encounter, duel or war only because of your decision?!

I teach to learn about God;
To trust, believe, in the Word of God;
To choose to submit to Him, by the truth in your heart, to be faithful to Him.
That, those who do submit to Him, are blessed with opportunity to be given His Wisdom, and Understanding of Scriptures, by God Himself.

You have called me a liar, a waste of your time and a vain encounter.

Why do you continue to bother speaking to me?

and why wouldn't the true God forgive people that are unoffending/harmless enough according to Him even if some of them are irreligious and non-occult?!,

Go ask someone whom you think is not a liar, a waste of your time, whom you do not think is a vain encounter.

but if according to Him you are (too) unrighteous to be allowed to enter and live in e.g. the "third heaven"(2 Corinthians 12:1-6), who will manage to prevent Him from excluding you from there?!

Go ask someone whom you think is not a liar, a waste of your time, whom you do not think is a vain encounter.

but you still don't say what exactly you propose?! - it even seems as if you just try to impose or domineer

Trust God.

one true doctor would know that people who are not professional enough doctors should not be involved or included as doctors in professional medical activities, or, to put it anther way, would you prefer your personal doctor to be someone who is not experienced enough to cure you of all possible diseases?!,

I don't have a doctor, so can not consider your scenario.

so why must we involve or include irreligious and non-occult people as spiritual servants in [sacramental works requiring high insight or skills] especially if they are not serious enough to do that job?!

You speaking for yourself, has nothing to do with me.

it has already become too obvious that you oppose for no good reason, but i am here to witness to the truth of the true God, not to shirk from responsibility

Your lack of understanding, has no baring on me.

and know that the good doctor doesn't need the consent or approval of anyone to know that his patients need a true treatment/healing, so neither you nor i can best tell the true God what He should do - if He is strong and powerful enough to save all souls and provide them with abundant and eternal life, and if He has intended to do it since the very beginning, believe me, no one and nothing will be able to stop/prevent Him from doing and accomplishing it... - but what will happen to people that oppose Him and hamper His mission, i cannot guarantee..., i only know that there may be a very great punishment for such people...

Guarantee's are not made by you. God's WORD is true. That is His guarantee.

Perhaps you should spend more time in consideration of your name-calling, and not worry about what I am doing.

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Aug 8, 2017

ICONO'CLAST said:
SBC,

[is per the individual man; is a necessary part that hopefully leads the man to ELECT TO CHOOSE, a submission unto God.]

Man does not as you say..

Click to expand...

Scripture says. Man has the option to choose, call on, elect to submit to God.

ELECT TO CHOOSE A SUBMISSION TO GOD....

Click to expand...

NATURAL MAN ELECTS SIN AND REBELLION TO GOD

Click to expand...

Natural man IS sin.
Some men remain and continue in sin.
Some elect to submit to God and be washed of their sins.

Roman 10
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Thes 1
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Pet 1
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

God Bless,
SBC

ICONO'CLAST · Aug 8, 2017

"SBC, said;
[1 Thes 1
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Pet 1
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:]

man does NOT...ELECT GOD....
you have this horribly wrong and backwards...it is speaking of God electing man.

your election means they were chosen by God...
I posted this in post 142...read it this time-
ylt;4 having known, brethren beloved, by God, your election,

1 Thessalonians 1:4New King James Version (NKJV)
4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.

1 Thessalonians 1:4Living Bible (TLB)
4 We know that God has chosen you, dear brothers, much beloved of God.

1 Thessalonians 1:4Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
4 Brothers and sisters, God loves you. And we know that he has chosen you to be his people.

1 Thessalonians 1:4International Children’s Bible (ICB)
4 Brothers, God loves you. And we know that he has chosen you to be his.

1 Thessalonians 1:4New American Standard Bible (NASB)
4 knowing, brethren beloved by God, >His choice of you;

SBC · Aug 9, 2017

ICONO'CLAST said:
man does NOT...ELECT GOD....

Yes man does.

you have this horribly wrong and backwards...

Click to expand...

it is speaking of God electing man.

No. You simply do not understand, as I do.

Lest you forget. God is all knowing. Man is not. God provides His WORD to the WORLD, to be heard, repeated, written, read, repeated, copied, distributed, rehearsed in the ears of others.

God is all knowing. Man is not. Man waits to hear; learns to trust; learns to believe; learns to be faithful, chooses to submit; or not.

God is all knowing. God knows (before the man knows) who WILL choose to believe. God "calls" - "puts in a mans path"; a way, a means for the man to hear, read, have access to His WORD.

2 Pet 1
[3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Just as God has LOVED US FIRST - WE HAVE TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO LOVE HIM.

God is ALL knowing. He knows before the man, WHO WILL choose to LOVE HIM!

You are pretending man has NO CHOICE. Not true.

Scripture notifies us MAN does choose. You simply do not consider, GOD already KNOWS mans choice BEFORE THE MAN DOES.

Jer
1 [5] Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

God does not WAIT to see, "IF" a man will choose to LOVE HIM ; "IF" a man will BELIEVE IN HIM; "IF" a man will be FAITHFUL to HIM.

It is the man WHO WAITS TO SEE.

It is the man WHO learns the knowledge, ponders it over, and decides to submit to God.

And absolutely scripture teaches for a man to give it great thought BEFORE electing to submit unto God.

2 Pet 1
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Jesus Himself, chose / called, 12 men.
12 men followed Him;
12 men.....through the power of God, learned the knowledge of things that pertain to life and godliness.

2 Pet 1
[3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him

Yet while 12 were called / ONLY 11, of the 12, trusted and believed to CHOOSE Jesus.

You think that a SURPRISE to God? No. It is a lesson for US. We are supposed to learn the KNOWLEDGE given us, and choose to TRUST the KNOWLEDGE, and BE SURE before we elect to SUBMIT to Him.

You think ALL who present themselves as having submitted to Him, and are truly submitted unto Him? They aren't. And HOW another knows, is by verifying what one does/says, by what the knowledge of God revealed in His WORD.

Many claim submission, claiming SAVED AND BORN AGAIN, WASHED with Jesus' BLOOD; WHILE continuing to PREACH, nothing changed; that they are STILL the same SINNER as they always was. That IS NOT according to SCRIPTURE. That IS according to themselves!

Matt 7
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It is NOT the will of the Father, that a man USE JESUS' NAME, to do their own bidding and preaching, according to themselves.

I do not speak according to myself. It is Gods word that teaches, He is all knowing. He Loves man first. He calls men. He knows who will call on His Name; call to Him. He puts in a mans path a way for men to hear and learn and choose to follow Him and submit unto Him.

And for a man to be diligent in his choosing. Know whose teaching you are following. The Lords Word, or mans Word. Is one following after a snake charmer, or the Lord.
Is one calling on the Lord, because he believes, or because his mama wants him to call on the Lord.

It is not a one-way street. The Lord is FIRST, He loves FIRST, His knowledge is FIRST, He chooses us FIRST.....man also has to reciprocate, choose, ELECT, pick, submit, TO the Lord. It is not news; God has been giving His Word to mankind since the beginning. It is not news; God waits for the man to ELECT to submit unto God.
To pretend otherwise is not according to what Scripture teaches.

Gen.47

- [30] But I will lie with my fathers, and thou shalt carry me out of Egypt, and bury me in their buryingplace. And he said, I will do as thou hast said.

Exod.19

- [8] And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

If you review history - Inasmuch as the Lord speaks, and His declaration is truth - so too does God expect a mans declaration and submission TO HIM to be truth. When it ISN'T. There is a consequence. Read the history of the Jews, who gave their word, then defaulted. It is no different for anyone else who gives their word, then defaults. It is a LIE man has given to God. (and precisely why man is warned, to BE SURE, before he submits unto God).

Acts 5:1 - 11 (lying to God)

...man does NOT...ELECT GOD....

You can teach your way, your understanding, and wag your finger at me all day long.
But then you also have to honestly DENY, you ever elected to call on the Lords name and submit in faithfulness to Him.

God Bless,
SBC

toLiJC · Aug 9, 2017

SBC said:
I teach to learn about God;
To trust, believe, in the Word of God;
To choose to submit to Him, by the truth in your heart, to be faithful to Him.
That, those who do submit to Him, are blessed with opportunity to be given His Wisdom, and Understanding of Scriptures, by God Himself.

You have called me a liar, a waste of your time and a vain encounter.

Why do you continue to bother speaking to me?

Go ask someone whom you think is not a liar, a waste of your time, whom you do not think is a vain encounter.

Go ask someone whom you think is not a liar, a waste of your time, whom you do not think is a vain encounter.

Trust God.

I don't have a doctor, so can not consider your scenario.

You speaking for yourself, has nothing to do with me.

Your lack of understanding, has no baring on me.

Guarantee's are not made by you. God's WORD is true. That is His guarantee.

Perhaps you should spend more time in consideration of your name-calling, and not worry about what I am doing.

God Bless,
SBC

what you demonstrate to me is visibly not an attempt at conducting civilized dialogue on your part, but it is some kind of mockery, or as if some parrot speaks nonsense and repeats one and the same - see how i speak to you (with respect, attention, understanding, solicitude, informativeness, clarity, intelligibility, simplicity, determination, resolution), and then see how you treat me (as if i am some garbage/trash), so you violate at least the commandment:

Matthew 5:21-24 "You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause(i.e. unfoundedly/for no (good) reason - and so by the end of the paragraph) shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has ought against you; Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."

so where is your attempt at reconciliation?!, what if it turns out that, God forbid, you kill someone with that your attitude, treatment and behavior?! - are you sure that no one dies or will die as a result of that your attitude, treatment and behavior?!

so you just come and horn in on my posts and then tell me to mind my own business?!?!

let's say you condemn irreligious and non-occult people that cause no evil to anybody/any soul - who will be guilty of wrongdoing before/in the eyes of God?!

Blessings

CrystalDragon · Aug 9, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
In the scriptures, I see God's love revealed toward all humanity as He desires everyone to see that the heavens declare His glory, nature speaks of Him, and Jesus personally demonstrated the love of God by paying for the sins of the world and calls all to respond to Him according to the revelation they have been given. Yet, some teach that God's love is not for everyone...

Share your thoughts.

With the existence of hell I can't accept that premise as factual, or accurate, or "loving".

ICONO'CLAST · Aug 9, 2017

ICONO'CLAST said:
"SBC, said;
[1 Thes 1
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Pet 1
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:]

man does NOT...ELECT GOD....
you have this horribly wrong and backwards...it is speaking of God electing man.

your election means they were chosen by God...
I posted this in post 142...read it this time-
ylt;4 having known, brethren beloved, by God, your election,

1 Thessalonians 1:4New King James Version (NKJV)
4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.

1 Thessalonians 1:4Living Bible (TLB)
4 We know that God has chosen you, dear brothers, much beloved of God.

1 Thessalonians 1:4Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
4 Brothers and sisters, God loves you. And we know that he has chosen you to be his people.

1 Thessalonians 1:4International Children’s Bible (ICB)
4 Brothers, God loves you. And we know that he has chosen you to be his.

1 Thessalonians 1:4New American Standard Bible (NASB)
4 knowing, brethren beloved by God, >His choice of you;

Notice that SBC did not answer these verses and admit he has it wrong. Many times we notice that people who turn from truth,invent their own ideas...which they substitute for truth....

SBC · Aug 9, 2017

toLiJC said:
what you demonstrate to me is visibly not an attempt at conducting civilized dialogue on your part, but it is some kind of mockery, or as if some parrot speaks nonsense and repeats one and the same - see how i speak to you (with respect, attention, understanding, solicitude, informativeness, clarity, intelligibility, simplicity, determination, resolution),

Examples:

you demonstrate to me is visibly not an attempt at conducting civilized dialogue
mockery
nonsense
vain encounter
you just try to impose or domineer
you waste my time with lies
i don't accuse/judge you
you violate at least the commandment

and then see how you treat me (as if i am some garbage/trash), so you violate at least the commandment:

Matthew 5:21-24 "You have heard that it was said of them of old time, You shall not kill; and whoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause(i.e. unfoundedly/for no (good) reason - and so by the end of the paragraph) shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has ought against you; Leave there your gift before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."

so where is your attempt at reconciliation?!, what if it turns out that, God forbid, you kill someone with that your attitude, treatment and behavior?! - are you sure that no one dies or will die as a result of that your attitude, treatment and behavior?!

so you just come and horn in on my posts and then tell me to mind my own business?!?!

let's say you condemn irreligious and non-occult people that cause no evil to anybody/any soul - who will be guilty of wrongdoing before/in the eyes of God?!

Blessings

God Bless,
SBC

SBC · Aug 9, 2017

ICONO'CLAST said:
Notice that SBC did not answer these verses and admit he has it wrong. Many times we notice that people who turn from truth,invent their own ideas...which they substitute for truth....

Have you NOTICED our dialogue?
I was speaking of Men choosing / electing God.

You responded:

man does NOT...ELECT GOD....

I don't agree with you.

Your argument is:

you have this horribly wrong and backwards...it is speaking of God electing man.

The point is. I was not speaking of God electing man. I NEVER ONCE SAID GOD DOES NOT ELECT MAN.

It IS A NON-ISSUE. God electing man is a BASIC TENET of knowledge taught from the OT to the NT to the present.

Deut 7
[6] For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

1 John 4
[19] We love him, because he first loved us.

Col 1
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

I was speaking of MANS choice, MANS election to reciprocate, and DO AS THE LORD DOES....choose Him, elect Him.

Apparently you are UNAWARE HOW a man elects, chooses, or reveals He chooses God.

Rom 10

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Since you DENY MAN chooses God, elects God.... I would have NO REASON to believe YOU called on His name, to confess YOU choose Him, YOU elected Him, YOU submit to Him. Since you have repeatedly claimed;

man does NOT...ELECT GOD....

Now since YOU seem to want to keep pointing out ~ God chooses/elects man ~ and I have never said ANYTHING to the contrary about God's own action of choosing and electing man....AND FURTHER explicitly said to you....;

"It is not a one-way street. The Lord is FIRST, He loves FIRST, His knowledge is FIRST, He chooses us FIRST.....man also has to reciprocate, choose, ELECT, pick, submit, TO the Lord." post # 195

If you want to continue with your half truth argument - I am not interested. I was not interested in your half truth argument to begin with, and mostly ignored your ranting on about ONLY God making an election of men. And you adamantly carrying on saying....

man does NOT...ELECT GOD....

You can either KEEP with your half truth, of what God DOES, and ignore MAN also has to make an elective choice to CHOOSE God (or not)...and that, is what I will believe is "your standing". However IT IS NOT "my standing". Because I believe God first chooses us, and thereafter we have to decide to choose Him, and OUR OWN election is what determines "our standing with or without God".

Matt 12: He that is not with me is against me;

If you do not know a MAN has to choose/elect to BE WITH God; then what? What is the alternative?
God FORCES everyone to love Him, be with Him eternally? eh ~ sorry, Scripture teaches no such thing.

God Bless,
SBC

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