Praying to Mary - A Biblical Defense

Notice below in the following verse the words “calls up the dead,” is tied to God saying that this is an abomination in His eyes! When you are attempting to call up the dead, you are attempting to try and directly communicate with them.

“When you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.” (Deuteronomy 18:9).

During Christ’s Earthly ministry – He specifically told his disciples that an example of the Lord’s prayer was to pray to God the Father if we have any specific needs that must be met.

We are also told by John that we can pray to Jesus, for we are told we have an advocate named Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1); And there is one mediator between God the Father and man, who is Christ Jesus.
There is not one verse that I am aware of where He told us that we could also pray direct to dead saints. If God the Father wanted this possibility as an option, then I believe Jesus would have specifically told us so in the New Testament – but He did not!

The fact, that there is Scripture condemning calling up of the dead, it should give us pause that we should not do so!

Scripture continues to say,

Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.” (Leviticus 19:31)

“And the person who turns after mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people.” (Leviticus 20:6).

Familiar spirits are spirits that you would consider as being familiar to you like the spirit of a dead family member, etc. So if a person turns after communing with familiar spirits (dead family members or even dead saints they think they know), they are prostituting themselves according to God’s Word. Because the Lord our God is a jealous God.

“So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance.” (1 Chronicles 10:13).

Saul consulted with a familiar spirit by a witch or medium. He talked with somebody (a spirit) in whom he was familiar with, but this was merely a demon in disguise. This was not really Samuel. The fact, that God condemned Saul for contacting a medium shows that God was not endorsing this particular encounter in any way!

A Hebrew prayer, emphasizing the need to trust solely in Jehovah, declares that “Abraham knows us not” (Isaiah 63:16), i.e., he is unaware of earthly activity, hence, is unable to assist the Israelite people.

It is certain that the dead cannot bring spiritual admonitions from their abode as evidenced by the narrative concerning the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31). Here are the facts: The rich man had died and his spirit was in the hadean (unseen) realm. He remembered that his brothers who survived him on earth were unprepared to meet God; hence, he wanted them warned. It is obvious that he could not get a message to them, otherwise he would not have requested that Lazarus be sent.

God says in Isaiah 8,

19 “When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
20 Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light…” (Isaiah 8:19-20) (NIV).


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Alithis said:

Sly and slippery.
They did not teach it by word or by tradition or their epistles.so you departed from them in order to impose your own.

I don`t worship your fake Godess Mary.

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This is highly insulting and a display of profound ignorance. Are you this rude when you speak about other people's mothers, or just Jesus'?

Symph said:

I think in THAT situation God may actually let her know something like that, but it's not like she's a deity who you could pray to for help or something, I mean I've had times when I just thought "Paul did you ever go through stuff like this?" And wondered if God makes him aware I'm speaking to him or not, but that's really not... it's not the same as asking Paul for help instead of Jesus, that's more of a gray area I don't think we have much of a way to know this side of heaven.

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I like your response. Because though I felt comfortable in the moment to express my guilt to Mary as a person directly, I would never ask for her specific help or even guidance. Not that she's not amazing, but that none of her abilities, trials, or wisdom puts her above me in any way....so I feel like praying to her would be just as successful as praying to you. Or the preacher Harry that died back in the mid 2000s.

Jason0047 said:

Notice below in the following verse the words “calls up the dead,” is tied to God saying that this is an abomination in His eyes! When you are attempting to call up the dead, you are attempting to try and directly communicate with them.

“When you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.” (Deuteronomy 18:9).

During Christ’s Earthly ministry – He specifically told his disciples that an example of the Lord’s prayer was to pray to God the Father if we have any specific needs that must be met.

We are also told by John that we can pray to Jesus, for we are told we have an advocate named Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1); And there is one mediator between God the Father and man, who is Christ Jesus.
There is not one verse that I am aware of where He told us that we could also pray direct to dead saints. If God the Father wanted this possibility as an option, then I believe Jesus would have specifically told us so in the New Testament – but He did not!

The fact, that there is Scripture condemning calling up of the dead, it should give us pause that we should not do so!

Scripture continues to say,

Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.” (Leviticus 19:31)

“And the person who turns after mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people.” (Leviticus 20:6).

Familiar spirits are spirits that you would consider as being familiar to you like the spirit of a dead family member, etc. So if a person turns after communing with familiar spirits (dead family members or even dead saints they think they know), they are prostituting themselves according to God’s Word. Because the Lord our God is a jealous God.

“So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance.” (1 Chronicles 10:13).

Saul consulted with a familiar spirit by a witch or medium. He talked with somebody (a spirit) in whom he was familiar with, but this was merely a demon in disguise. This was not really Samuel. The fact, that God condemned Saul for contacting a medium shows that God was not endorsing this particular encounter in any way!

A Hebrew prayer, emphasizing the need to trust solely in Jehovah, declares that “Abraham knows us not” (Isaiah 63:16), i.e., he is unaware of earthly activity, hence, is unable to assist the Israelite people.

It is certain that the dead cannot bring spiritual admonitions from their abode as evidenced by the narrative concerning the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31). Here are the facts: The rich man had died and his spirit was in the hadean (unseen) realm. He remembered that his brothers who survived him on earth were unprepared to meet God; hence, he wanted them warned. It is obvious that he could not get a message to them, otherwise he would not have requested that Lazarus be sent.

God says in Isaiah 8,

19 “When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living?
20 Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light…” (Isaiah 8:19-20) (NIV).
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Divination and magic

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The first commandment
Conjuring up the dead is condemned. It has nothing to do with prayers to saints. They just take our prayers to God, and God may or may not answer them. The saint has no power to answer prayers directly, only God does. I don't know why this is so difficult for Protestants to grasp.

I'm so curious.... what are the numbers next to each paragraph?.... that is all....

OrthodoxyUSA said:

2Th 2:15

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Forgive me...

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"Do not worship idols".

Tradition must not go against God

Symph said:

I'm so curious.... what are the numbers next to each paragraph?.... that is all....

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Catholic commandments from their Catechism. Each is numbered. Similar to Sharia law. Religious criminal code. Do this, don't do that.

Instrument150 said:

I like your response. Because though I felt comfortable in the moment to express my guilt to Mary as a person directly, I would never ask for her specific help or even guidance. Not that she's not amazing, but that none of her abilities, trials, or wisdom puts her above me in any way....so I feel like praying to her would be just as successful as praying to you. Or the preacher Harry that died back in the mid 2000s.

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Besides, she simply won't hear you. Shes not God!

Friend-of-Jesus said:

Besides, she simply won't hear you. Shes not God!

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Well he had a moment of emotion toward her and she IS a real person, and whether she heard him or not God did and I doubt God was upset that he was feeling empathy for Mary losing her son.

Symph said:

Well he had a moment of emotion toward her and she IS a real person, and whether she heard him or not God did and I doubt God was upset that he was feeling empathy for Mary losing her son.

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Well, it may all sound good, but it sure is a dangerous territory. Better not venture over there, it's against God. My people are traditionally Shananistic and boy addressing the spirits of the dead brings out demons loose! People think they emphasize with mother Mary or uncle Jerry, but in fact they call upon servants of the evil one... I really don't advise going there. I've seen with my own eyes the results. Not good. God can't support something He has clearly forbidden in His word.

Friend-of-Jesus said:

Well, it may all sound good, but 8t sure us a dangerous territory. Better not venture over there, it's against God. My people are traditionally Shananistic and boy addressing the spirits of the dead brings out demons loose! People think they emphasize with Mary or uncle Jerry, but in fact tgey call upon servants of the evil one... I really don't advise going there. I've seen with my son eyes the results. Not good

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I understand your fears, you just don't wanna take any chances, but I think you can trust in the fact that with God heart intent is everything. There's a difference in trying to make contact with, consult, or even saying little prayers to say.. your dead grandmother, and just kind of hoping God might send a message to them. If you're simply requesting God to make an exception? Who's to say he can't? We have no way of knowing one way or the other but I doubt there's any danger if you're acknowledging it's God's choice.

The bible says the dead are not aware of the things on earth, but that is just telling you their natural state, its not addressing a child making a special request of God. In that situation I guess it would just be up to God. But yeah if you find yourself talking to your dead relative, trying to get in contact with them, acting like they have the power to hear you all their own etc, yea that's just setting yourself up for a demon to answer the call.

kepha31 said:

Divination and magic

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to "unveil" the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The first commandment
Conjuring up the dead is condemned. It has nothing to do with prayers to saints. They just take our prayers to God, and God may or may not answer them. The saint has no power to answer prayers directly, only God does. I don't know why this is so difficult for Protestants to grasp.

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No. Praying or contacting the dead is akin or likened to the commands in the Old Testament that had forbid contacting familar spirits. So just praying to a dead person is contacting a familar spirit (Which is condemned in OT Scripture). This is a part of God's eternal moral laws given to man and this has not changed. For our God is a jealous God. He does not want you giving your attention to some other kind of spiritual entity, etc. It does not make sense what you believe, too. Why not just pray directly to God? Jesus said we are to pray to the Father as an example of prayer. There is no prayer to the saints example He gave us. Think man.


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kepha31 said:

This is highly insulting and a display of profound ignorance. Are you this rude when you speak about other people's mothers, or just Jesus'?

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The Lord Jesus has catagoricly stated who his mother and brothers are.
So you can take it up with him.

Symph said:

I understand your fears, you just don't wanna take any chances, but I think you can trust in the fact that with God heart intent is everything. There's a difference in trying to make contact with, consult, or even saying little prayers to say.. your dead grandmother, and just kind of hoping God might send a message to them. If you're simply requesting God to make an exception? Who's to say he can't? We have no way of knowing one way or the other but I doubt there's any danger if you're acknowledging it's God's choice.

The bible says the dead are not aware of the things on earth, but that is just telling you their natural state, its not addressing a child making a special request of God. In that situation I guess it would just be up to God. But yeah if you find yourself talking to your dead relative, trying to get in contact with them, acting like they have the power to hear you all their own etc, yea that's just setting yourself up for a demon to answer the call.

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I used to ask God over and over and over and over over.... sinfully, as in Mathew 6:7 .... to take messages to my wife for me. When no response came as to whether or not he would do this for me, I became wrought with anxiety and there I went again and again. Thankfully it didn't take long for me to be rid of that burden

I remember even as a child growing up (in a liberal Christian home) before I accepted Jesus that praying to the dead was wrong. I remember one of my childhood friends who was Catholic said he was going to pray to Mary. Yet, I said to him to pray directly to God instead. It makes no sense. I told him not to do it. But he did not want to pray to God, he wanted to pray to Mary instead. Therein lies the problem. Mary replaced God in his prayers.


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Instrument150 said:

I used to ask God over and over and over and over over.... sinfully, as in Mathew 6:7 .... to take messages to my wife for me. When no response came as to whether or not he would do this for me, I became wrought with anxiety and there I went again and again. Thankfully it didn't take long for me to be rid of that burden

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So this hits a personal place for you, I get that. I dont think you're wrong for being cautious, this is one of those, difficult areas.

Symph said:

So this hits a personal place for you, I get that. I dont think you're wrong for being cautious, this is one of those, difficult areas.

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No. It has nothing to do with being cautious. It is dead wrong to pray or contact the dead for any reason. Even messing around with an Ouija board will cause you problems. The Old Testament is clear in it's condemnation of contacting familar spirits (i.e. dead family members that are familar to you).

The Lord our God is a jealous God. Prayer is something that is spiritual and is exclusively His right alone. Only God can answer millions of prayers. It is illogical to assume that a dead saint can answer millions of prayers, too. When a person prays to a dead saint, these prayers are taking the place of the prayers that they would normally make to God.


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I also used to threaten God when she was sick, and tell Him that if He killed her I was going to use my talents against Him purposefully, in full knowledge of what I'd be doing unlike the many unwitting participants in today's musical fiasco. I say this because I have never said it, among many many many other things to anyone. I have turned into a creature of almost pure solitude. I have had contact with only one person on a regular basis for about three months and before that, it was only a handful for years. And that is also why I came here to this forum. To find some people to help me work out these last 4 -5 months of my time of solitude. Because it is coming to an end soon, and I'm going to need all of the support I can get

PanDeVida said:

Praying to Mary or to any Saint in Heaven

By Tim Staples

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Well, my mail deliverer person brings letters and bills and parcels and post cards (well before email) to hundreds of people. However, they certainly don't open them, read them and then tell the people that they are or were addressed to , what the letters said.....

Nice try..but they are deliverers and they were not who the prayers were addressed to or understood by.

Instrument150 said:

I like your response. Because though I felt comfortable in the moment to express my guilt to Mary as a person directly, I would never ask for her specific help or even guidance. Not that she's not amazing, but that none of her abilities, trials, or wisdom puts her above me in any way....so I feel like praying to her would be just as successful as praying to you. Or the preacher Harry that died back in the mid 2000s.

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I agree. It doesn't matter if preacher Harry has a pulse.

Even in the Protestant worldview, there is this notion of “getting a holy man [or the pastor, etc.] to pray for you.” Hence, a person would, e.g., ask Billy Graham to pray for them, because it is thought that somehow his prayer might have more effect. This intuition is actually based on explicit biblical testimony:
James 5:14-18

Note here that the Bible itself recommends asking someone else to pray: “the elders” of the Church, who, like other Church leaders (1 Tim 3:1-13; Titus 1:7), are supposed to be of exemplary character, and “worthy of double honor” (1 Tim 5:17). They have more power, due to their ordination. In fact, this is a text we bring up in relation to the sacrament of anointing (also known as “extreme unction” or “last rites”: when a person is dying). So we ask them to pray due to the greater power they have in terms of a possible miracle occurring, or supernatural grace being imparted through them. They have more than we do ourselves; therefore, we ask them to pray.

To nail down his point, St. James cites the example of the prophet Elijah. When he prayed, it didn’t rain for three-and-a-half years. James says this was the case because (here is the principle he wishes to convey): “The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” We see the same dynamic in the following passage:
1 Kings 13:6

This is the biblical rationale for asking others, of more spiritual stature in the kingdom, or holier (or, best of all, both!) to pray for us. But that is not yet the same as asking a (dead) saint to pray for us. How does one arrive at that conclusion? It takes a little more work, but it is possible to ground it, too, in Scripture by less direct, explicit biblical data.

In Revelation 5:8, the “twenty-four elders” (usually regarded by commentators as dead human beings) “fell down before the Lamb . . . with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” They appear to have other people’s prayers, to present to God. So the obvious question is: what are they doing with them? Why does Revelation present dead saints presenting the prayers of other saints to God?

If they have them, it stands to reason as a rather straightforward deduction, that they heard the initial prayers as well, or at least were granted knowledge of them in some fashion, granted ultimately through the power of God. Revelation 8:3-4 is even more explicit. Rather than equate incense and prayers, it actually distinguishes between them, and presents the scenario that the prayers and incense are presented together:

And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; [4] and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.
So the question, again, is: what is this angel doing with “prayers of the saints” — presenting them to God? It seems clear to me that they have heard the prayers, and are involved as intercessors. Angels are extremely intelligent beings. We know that they rejoice when a sinner repents. They have knowledge in ways that we do not; above our comprehension.This is biblical proof that dead saints and angels both somehow have our prayers and present them to God. They are acting as intercessors and intermediaries. How do they hear our prayers? God gives them the power to do so because they are in heaven and therefore, outside of time. They are aware of earthly events. We know that from Hebrews 12:1 (“we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”), and from Revelation 6:9-10, where dead saints are praying for those on the earth.

We also know of several incidents where dead men (even some from heaven) interact with those on earth: the Transfiguration (Mt 17:1-3 / Mk 9:4 / Lk 9:30-31), the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11:3-13, the prophet Samuel (not just a demon impersonating him: 1 Sam 28:7-20), and “many bodies of the saints” that came out of their graves after Jesus’ Resurrection and went into Jerusalem, appearing to many (Mt 27:50-53). In the deuterocanonical book of 2 Maccabees (15:13-16) the prophet Jeremiah returns to earth.

This is our entire rationale for asking saints to pray to God for us: all from the Bible:

Things like the Trinity, Christology, and original sin develop a lot in the post-biblical period, then it is no more difficult to believe that the Catholic doctrines of the communion of saints, and intercession and invocation of the saints developed too. There is enough in the Bible to show that it is perfectly harmonious with Christianity. And there is a ton of patristic testimony, too...

...If a saint is truly being thought of as a replacement for God, and an end in and of himself, then it is idolatry. If it was thought, for example, that Mary could grant requests in and of herself, without the grace of God, as if she were self-sufficient (in effect, like God), that would clearly be Mariolatry and rank idolatry, since that is a replacement of God Himself. In the Catholic view, saints reflect God’s glory. They are intermediaries; vessels. Mary points inquirers to her Son, Who is God. She doesn’t lift up herself.
Dialogue: "Why pray to a saint rather than to God?"