Comparing the visions of Rev. 6 & Dan. 7.

God promised His Son & Heir the nations as His inheritance, (Ps. 2: 8) & said He would bring them to Christ`s footstool, (for His possession) Christ then will deal with these nations plus deliver Israel from its enemies.

`The Lord God (Father) said to my Lord, (Son)
“Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.” (Ps. 110: 1)

When Christ is given the scroll, only He is able to open & read what is written. This is symbolic of Him receiving the authority over the earth & bringing the judgments that have been sealed up by God. This `sealing up,` is represented by the 7 seals, showing that it will be a complete judgment upon the nations. (7 in Heb. means to be complete)

This judgment is upon the rebellious nations of the earth who operate under the control & power of Satan. They consider that they control their own affairs & that they are the sole arbiter of their destiny. But Satan & the nations however, do not have the final say. There is a higher authority controlling the world systems & shaping the nations according to His Divine Will.

As the Lord Jesus Christ opens the scroll we are shown how He is bringing mankind to judgment. He gathers the nations into large confederacies, exposes their motives, and then corrals them into one area for judgement.

The prophet Daniel was given a vision of these great Federations as they formed, while the Apostle John was shown their position at the beginning of the tribulation.

Let us compare the visions of three of them.

REVELATION 6: 2

1. White Horse
   
   Only one crowned - Monarchy
   Conquering to conquer - Imperialistic
   
   
   BY COMPARISON DANIEL 7: 4
   

1. Lion - British Monarchy Imperialistic
   

REVELATION 6: 3 & 4

2. Red Horse

Take away peace
Given executioners sword



BY COMPARISON DANIEL 7: 5
2. Bear - Soviet Communists Red

History of wars, confrontations and invasions.
K.G.B. executions in prisons and concentration camps
Estimated at 40 million people.

REVELATION 6: 5 & 6

3. Black Horse

Pair of balances (Scales) measurement of produce

• denoting a market economy (free trade)
  
  
  3. BY COMPARISON DANIEL 7: 6
  
  Leopard - European Common market. (EU`s philosophy of free trade)
  
  
  

No empire has ever been established on earth without the sanction and authority of God.

John records a visible expression of this principle in operation frequently referred to as the "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" (Revelation 6:1-8). Much conjecture and many theories have been promulgated regarding this subject.

The Bible always provides the interpretation. Zechariah similarly experienced a corresponding vision. Completely intrigued, he enquired the implication of what he saw. God explicitly and succinctly revealed the Divine Purpose:-

`These are the four spirits of the heavens which go forth from the Lord and operate in the realm of the predominant ruling powers of the world.` (Zechariah 6:1-8)

Once God has established a precedent and has specifically designated its meaning, by the principle of first mention, it becomes the rule thereafter. The "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" are thus the earthly images of the "Four Spirits of the Heavens". In this specific instance they bring into existence the four successive power-blocs of the last days.

It presents an extremely significant parallel to Daniel's vision both as to time-slot and content. In fact Daniel prefaces his prediction of the end-time confederacies: -

"The four Spirits (winds-same Hebrew word) of the Heavens Strove on the Mediterranean Sea" (Daniel 7:2)

victorinus said:

why aren't they called beasts? -
chapter 13 calls them beasts -
why don't you compare them to dan 7

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Hi victorinus,

Thank you for your reply.

God reveals the `character` & how the Federations started & developed, in Daniel`s vision, while to John, the Federations were revealed as `horsemen` referring to them being brought to judgment.

I will certainly compare them to Rev. 13. Thank you for being interested. Have to go out now but later today, I will get back to you.

regards, Marilyn.

l_ruth_ said:

Hi Marilyn, Daniel 2:44 and Daniel 7:27 seem to me to harmonise with each other - so for me it would make the most sense for Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 to be directly understood in parallel with each other ... I do not think that kingdoms before the end of the age are ever denoted as being themselves, spirits from God. These are two possible points I would like to raise, from my own perspective, and I would be interested to know whether either of these two points make sense in the context of what you are saying, and what you think about them, if they are clear enough to be understood. X

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Hi I ruth,

Thank you also for coming into this discussion. I do realise that many people have been told that the Dan. 2 Great Image and the 4 beasts of Dan.7 are the same. However I would have you think upon these points -

Dan. 7 beasts are 4 while the Great Image has 5 components.
Dan. 7 beasts continue into the millennium, but with out their power. (except the last one which is judged) (Dan. 7: 11 & 12)
Dan. 7 beasts are contemporaneous - arise one at a time but continue on at the same time, as the last beast treads the others down. (Dan. 7: 7)
Dan. 7 beasts are Great Federations, while the Great Image components are all world Rulers.

Also the kingdoms are not spirits, but controlled, directed by them, towards God`s judgment.

regards, Marilyn.

Contemporary Historcisist said:

I believe than Daniel 7 and Psalms 2 and Daniel 2 all speak of the prophesied end of rule by king. We know from 1 Samuel that God did not want an earthly Monarchy (sole rule, rule by king). Psalms 2 and Daniel 2 are tied together by the heavenly mountain, iron (scepter) and clay (pottery). In order to prepare the way for the earthly kingdom of Christ the Monarchial system had to come to an end.
Daniel 2
1. Statue=System of Rule By King (Human Monarchy, Sole Rule)
2. Mountain in Heaven= Zion That Heavenly Kingdom of Christ Which All Christians Are Part Of
3. Hands That Were Not Human= God the Son or Possibly God the Father
4. Feet of Iron & Clay That Were Trying To Intermarry For Peace=European Monarchies That Came After Iron Legs Of Rome
5. Rock That Landed At The Statue's Feet= The Establishment of Plymouth Plantation By Our Pilgrim Forefathers.

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Hi Contemporary Historcisist,

Glad to have you in the conversation also. I agree with some of what you say, however there are a few points you may need to consider.

- All the components of the Great Image are Gentile World Rulers, 4 have come & gone as God has judged them. One Gentile World Ruler is still to come and that is what we see forming quickly in our day.

- The times of the Gentiles ruling the world will come to an end when the Lord comes in power and great glory to deliver Israel and judge the nations of the world.

`And Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.` (Luke 21: 24)

As that has not happened yet we know that the `rock,` Christ, has yet to deal with the last Gentile Global Government.

regards, Marilyn.

victorinus said:

why aren't they called beasts? -
chapter 13 calls them beasts -
why don't you compare them to dan 7

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Hi victorinus,




The `Beast.`

The composite `beast` is made up of the `lion, the leopard & the bear,` powers. These reveal its beastly character & represent the different confederacies that come together to form the Global Government.

`Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard,
his feet were like the feet of a bear, & his mouth like the mouth of a lion. `
(Rev. 13: 2)

Daniel Ch. 7 reveals the origin of these power blocs. They formed one at a time & came up from the peoples of the world. In the book of Revelation Ch. 13 we see that they have come together to form a Global Government. Each have their part which is operating in the world today.

The Mouth – This is the confederacy that speaks forth `Peace & Safety,` to the world.

It is the British Commonwealth & American powers. They work together & dominate the world`s Political affairs. The `Lion,` is the heraldic emblem of Britain & the `Eagle,` America, who originally came from this country.

`his mouth was like the mouth of a lion,` (Rev. 13: 2)

The Body – This confederacy `s philosophy gradually dominates & controls the world`s economies. It started in the European Union & was called the `Common Market.` Today it reaches out across the world drawing all into its economic system involving – finance, multi-nationals & commerce, till eventually no-one can buy or sell without their authority.

`the beast ....was like a leopard...` (Rev. 13: 2)


The Feet – This confederation has always been quick to tread down & dominate by force. It is the Russian confederation of nations, (from the Slavic countries of Eastern Europe to various republics along Russia`s southern border). Its part in the Global Government, this `beast,` is reduced, as most of its army was destroyed on the mountains of Israel in WW3. (Ez. 38 & 39)

`his feet were like the feet of a bear,....` (Rev. 13: 2)


These main confederations make up the Global Government with Islam eventually ruling over them. The various institutions that are being set up Politically & Economically will be brought together to dominate & control the peoples of the world.

victorinus said:

their best effort was the ottoman empire which ended a hundred years ago -
they have been struggling ever since

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Hi victorinus,

It may seem like that to you at the moment however......I will post a thread on Islam. Be interested to hear what you say.

regards, Marilyn.

l_ruth_ said:

I do not know if this applies to this thread, and if not, I understand, but my question, from what you've said, would then be: what do you say are the components of the Great Image in Daniel 12?

The reason why those two verses, Daniel 2:44 and Daniel 7:27 seem to me to refer to the same event, is because they seem to refer to the inheritance of the saints, which comes in its fullness at the end of the age with the Parousia of Jesus Christ

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Hi I ruth,

I agree that those two verses refer to the same event.

1. Dan. 2. The Great Image of the times of the Gentiles ruling the world - 5 World Rulers.

2. Dan. 7. Four great beastly Federations that lead to the final Global Government.

regards, Marilyn.

l_ruth_ said:

Hi Marilyn,

I think I did not understand what you meant, before - because I assumed that, as the Great Image in Daniel 2 and the beasts in Daniel 7 were not referring to the same things, then they were not from the same time in history, but I think what you are saying is, although they are not referring to the same things, they are nevertheless from the same time in history, including fulfilment right now, and that is how those two verses are able to refer to the same event, because even though, the Great Image in Daniel 2 and the beasts in Daniel 7 do not refer to the same things, the timelines of both do overlap? I hope this does indeed reflect a corrected version of what I misunderstood, before

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Hi I ruth,

If you would like more information I go into more detail on my other thread ISLAM, (the 4th beast). There you will see that I talk about the `10 horns` and the `10 toes,` which you so rightly see are referring to the same power, before the Lord comes in power and great glory.

regards, Marilyn.