Genesis 6:1-4 and Jude 6&7 what do these passages mean? Why should we care?

Major1

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Will you point out some specific passages from Enoch that are “OCCULTIC and Satanic”.

Thanking. I will be glad to do so.

Enoch 40:9-10.........
"seen and whose words I have heard and written down?’ And he said to me: ‘This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering: and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael: and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel: and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.’
10 And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices I heard in those days."

The Bible never mentions an angel named Raphael or Phanuel, let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches.

We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against LIARS and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise. 1st John 2:22 clearly indicts all Christ-deniers as LIARS, guilty before God.

Here's chapter 48:1-3...

1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.

Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in Heaven? This is an attack on the deity of Jesus. Jesus Himself claimed in Revelation 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Jesus is Eternal, without beginning or end. Head of Days? Lord of Spirits? These terms are NOT found in the Bible. IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't. Although some people claim that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch over 100 times, this is simply not true. Just as the Qur'an, the Book of Enoch borrows from the Word of God. In sharp contrast to the Book of Enoch, the New Testament often quotes the Book of Genesis.

If that is not enough please ask and I can post some more.
 
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Major1

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I totally get your point about the false religions but if all of those people you list had judged all of those so called revelations as a born again believer using the Holy Spirit and the word of God as a guide there would in my opinion have been a different result.

Just my opinion here many Christians miss out on many blessings of God because of what they have been taught, what they don’t understand and in some case what they do not want to know.



Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

I agree. If they had not used the Word of God and the Holy Spirit, it would have been a total disaster a very long time ago.
 
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Major1

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A very convenient explanation that does not explain:

Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Amos 2:9 Yet destroyed I the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars, and he was strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit from above, and his roots from beneath.



Not exactly a description of people just a little taller than average.


2 Samuel 21:20 And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant.

1 Chronicles 20:6 And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand, and six on each foot and he also was the son of the giant.



Shaquille O'Neil doesn’t have six fingers and toes.


Deuteronomy 2:20 (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;

21 A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the Lord destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead:



Deuteronomy 2:33 And the Lord our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.

34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:



Deuteronomy 3:5 All these cities were fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many.

6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.



1 Samuel 22:19 And Nob, the city of the priests, smote he with the edge of the sword, both men and women, children and sucklings, and oxen, and asses, and sheep, with the edge of the sword.

God always dealt with the giant clans the same, show no mercy, kill them all men women and children sometimes even the animals. Just saying they were wicked people does not answer the question why the children? I believe in the video I posted Chuck Missler said, understanding what happened in Genesis 6 is key to understanding the entire Old Testament. I agree completely.



IMHO this a perfect example of some trying removing the supernatural from scripture because they do not want to deal with the reality of it. Trying to explain all of these issues with human reason and so called common sense does not really face up to the facts we have in scripture.

For the most part on this thread we have stuck just to scriptures but when you add in the reality of megalithic structures found around the world that our technology cannot reproduce or explain today, giant remains and artifacts found in various places around the world, the massive attempt by many to cover up the physical evidence. Even claims by some in the military of encountering actual giants, in our day, with some claiming training specifically to deal with their supernatural strength. There are even legends of the American Indians that speak of a race of giants.

I always find it exciting when science and archeology confirm scripture but many just want to find a way to explain it away or just ignore it.

There is a wealth of information out there for those who seek to understand what this is really all about.

Adam Clark commentary says it better than I can...........
"That there have been giants at different times, in various parts of the earth, there can be no doubt; but that there ever was a nation of men twelve and fourteen feet high, we cannot, should not believe. Goliath appears to have been at least nine feet high: this was very extraordinary. I knew three young men in my own neighborhood, two of them brothers, each of whom was upwards of seven feet, the third was eight feet six inches, and these men were very well proportioned. Others I have seen of extraordinary stature, but they were generally disproportioned, especially in their limbs. These instances serve to prove the possibility of cases of this nature. The Anakim might appear to the Israelites as a very tall, robust nation; and in comparison of the latter it is very probable that they were so, as it is very likely that the growth of the Israelites had been greatly cramped with their long and severe servitude in Egypt. And this may in some measure account for their alarm."

Then also from Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible...........
"there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak — The name is derived from the son of Arba, a great man among the Arabians (Joshua 15:14), who probably obtained his appellation from wearing a splendid collar or chain round his neck, as the word imports. The epithet “giant” evidently refers here to stature. (See on Genesis 6:4). And it is probable the Anakims were a distinguished family, or perhaps a select body of warriors, chosen for their extraordinary size.

we were in our own sight as grasshoppers — a strong Orientalism, by which the treacherous spies gave an exaggerated report of the physical strength of the people of Canaan."
 
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Will you point out some specific passages from Enoch that are “OCCULTIC and Satanic”.
Some people argue just for the sake of trying to win an argument and not for the sake of gaining knowledge. This thread could teach mysteries that certain denominations have hidden from their congregants. Some believe everything their denomination teaches and do not study for themselves. Like the fact that there were these giants that the Israelites encountered on their way to the promised land.
 
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Major1

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Some people argue just for the sake of trying to win an argument and not for the sake of gaining knowledge. This thread could teach mysteries that certain denominations have hidden from their congregants. Some believe everything their denomination teaches and do not study for themselves. Like the fact that there were these giants that the Israelites encountered on their way to the promised land.

Actually, everyone in my church has a Bible and everyone one of them can look up anything they wanted to.

I do not know of anyone who does not know and accept that there were some very large individual people alive in those days. I also know that there are some very large people alive today so I really at a loss to know what you are saying.
 
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Adam Clark commentary says it better than I can...........
"That there have been giants at different times, in various parts of the earth, there can be no doubt; but that there ever was a nation of men twelve and fourteen feet high, we cannot, should not believe. Goliath appears to have been at least nine feet high: this was very extraordinary. I knew three young men in my own neighborhood, two of them brothers, each of whom was upwards of seven feet, the third was eight feet six inches, and these men were very well proportioned. Others I have seen of extraordinary stature, but they were generally disproportioned, especially in their limbs. These instances serve to prove the possibility of cases of this nature. The Anakim might appear to the Israelites as a very tall, robust nation; and in comparison of the latter it is very probable that they were so, as it is very likely that the growth of the Israelites had been greatly cramped with their long and severe servitude in Egypt. And this may in some measure account for their alarm."

Then also from Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible...........
"there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak — The name is derived from the son of Arba, a great man among the Arabians (Joshua 15:14), who probably obtained his appellation from wearing a splendid collar or chain round his neck, as the word imports. The epithet “giant” evidently refers here to stature. (See on Genesis 6:4). And it is probable the Anakims were a distinguished family, or perhaps a select body of warriors, chosen for their extraordinary size.

we were in our own sight as grasshoppers — a strong Orientalism, by which the treacherous spies gave an exaggerated report of the physical strength of the people of Canaan."

Does Adam Clark explain the six fingers and toes and why God wanted the children killed? There is more going on here than you are willing to deal with. All of the down play of their size and with natural explanations IMHO just skirts the real issue and facts we do have clearly laid out in scripture.
 
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While I have never claimed Enoch was on par with scripture I do believe it is valid reference material, and was familiar in Jesus’s day, quoted in Jude 14. How did Jude quote Enoch’s prophesy if it had not been recorded somewhere?

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

2 Samuel 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

Numbers 21:14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the Lord, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,

There are quite a few other books referred to in scripture but not part of our cannon. Should we just assume these are all satanic or occult?

1 Chronicles 29:29

2 Chronicles 9:29

1 Kings 11:41

2 Chronicles 12:15

2 Chronicles 13:22

2 Chronicles 20:34

1 Chronicles 27:24

Colossians 4:16




The Bible never mentions an angel named Raphael or Phanuel,


I’m sure of the myriads of angels, Gabriel and Michael are not the only ones with names.


let alone an angel who is set over the repentance of those who inherit eternal life. That statement in itself contradicts everything the Word of God teaches.

We read in 1st Timothy 2:5 that Jesus Christ is the ONLY Mediator between God and men, not some angel named Phanuel... "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Repentance is strictly between a man and Jesus Christ alone. Only Jesus died for our sins, and shed His blood to pay for them (1st Peter 1:18-19); therefore, we must be diligent to guard and defend against LIARS and imposters who would lead people to believe otherwise. 1st John 2:22 clearly indicts all Christ-deniers as LIARS, guilty before God.


I see nothing in the passage you quoted from Enoch that contradicts the fact that for one to be be born again it must be through faith in the finished work of Christ.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Do you have full understanding of how God accomplishes the above in all cases. Are you will to say that God cannot use an angel in bringing about situations in the lives of people that may result in repentance and faith in Christ?

Bottom line I do not believe you have even come close to proving your first quote is occult or satanic.
 
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Major1 wrote:

Here's chapter 48:1-3...

1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.



? This is an attack on the deity of Jesus. Jesus Himself claimed in Revelation 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

I see this a little than you. Please explain how this is an attack on the deity of Christ He was named “before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of heaven were made”. Is that not in eternity past?




Jesus is Eternal, without beginning or end. Head of Days? Lord of Spirits? These terms are NOT found in the Bible.

These terms do not say occult or satanic at all. Jesus is head of all things and Lord of all things.

IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't.

Are there numerous quotes from Jasher? Two mentions in the OT, I believe.

Although some people claim that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch over 100 times, this is simply not true. Just as the Qur'an, the Book of Enoch borrows from the Word of God. In sharp contrast to the Book of Enoch, the New Testament often quotes the Book of Genesis.

It couldn’t borrow from the New Testament it was written well before Christ came.

If that is not enough please ask and I can post some more.

Please post the occult and satanic ones.

 
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Major1

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While I have never claimed Enoch was on par with scripture I do believe it is valid reference material, and was familiar in Jesus’s day, quoted in Jude 14. How did Jude quote Enoch’s prophesy if it had not been recorded somewhere?

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

2 Samuel 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

Numbers 21:14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the Lord, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,

There are quite a few other books referred to in scripture but not part of our cannon. Should we just assume these are all satanic or occult?

1 Chronicles 29:29

2 Chronicles 9:29

1 Kings 11:41

2 Chronicles 12:15

2 Chronicles 13:22

2 Chronicles 20:34

1 Chronicles 27:24

Colossians 4:16







I’m sure of the myriads of angels, Gabriel and Michael are not the only ones with names.





I see nothing in the passage you quoted from Enoch that contradicts the fact that for one to be be born again it must be through faith in the finished work of Christ.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Do you have full understanding of how God accomplishes the above in all cases. Are you will to say that God cannot use an angel in bringing about situations in the lives of people that may result in repentance and faith in Christ?

Bottom line I do not believe you have even come close to proving your first quote is occult or satanic.

Enoch 48:1-3...

"And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.

Was the Son of Man named? When was Jesus named in Heaven? This is an attack on the deity of Jesus.

Jesus Himself claimed in Revelation 1:8...............
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Jesus is Eternal, without beginning or end. Head of Days? Lord of Spirits? These terms are NOT found in the Bible. IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't. Although some people claim that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch over 100 times, this is simply not true. Just as the Qur'an, the Book of Enoch borrows from the Word of God. In sharp contrast to the Book of Enoch, the New Testament often quotes the Book of Genesis.

Enoch, chapter 69:8-12...
"And the fourth was named Penemue: he taught the
children of men the bitter and the sweet, and he taught them all the secrets of their wisdom. And he instructed mankind in writing with ink and paper, and thereby many sinned from eternity to
eternity and until this day. For men were not created for such a purpose, to give confirmation
to their good faith with pen and ink. For men were created exactly like the angels, to the intent that they should continue pure and righteous, and death, which destroys everything, could not have taken hold of them, but through this their knowledge they are perishing, and through this power
it is consuming me."

What ... man's wisdom came from a demon named Penemue? That's crazy! Did ink and paper cause the fall of the human race? Whoa ... I'd better through all my fine-point pens away immediately! It was Adam's sin that brought sin into the world (Romans 5:12); not evil literature. Mankind is inherently evil of himself, prone to the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21). The Charismatics (Pentecostals) give far too much credit to demons for the sinful actions of men. They believe that every sin a person commits is evidence of demon-possession. That is absurd! Men and women sin because they are sinners! (Romans 3:10,23).

Although demons definitely influence mankind to do evil, the ultimate decision is OURS. The Devil cannot force anyone to sin. People need to stop blaming demons and the Devil for their sins, and start looking into the mirror.

God has promised to help His children live right...1 Corth. 10:13.........
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it".
 
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Major1

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Does Adam Clark explain the six fingers and toes and why God wanted the children killed? There is more going on here than you are willing to deal with. All of the down play of their size and with natural explanations IMHO just skirts the real issue and facts we do have clearly laid out in scripture.

Believe as you wish my friend. I just gave you some information to ponder. But honestly, I do not believe that you will accept anything that contradicts what you have already decided that you want to believe.

So then, believe it!!!
 
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Major1

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Major1 wrote:

Here's chapter 48:1-3...

1 And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness Which was inexhaustible: And around it were many fountains of wisdom: And all the thirsty drank of them, And were filled with wisdom, And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect. 2 And at that hour that Son of Man was named In the presence of the Lord of Spirits, And his name before the Head of Days. 3 Yea, before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of the heaven were made, His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.



? This is an attack on the deity of Jesus. Jesus Himself claimed in Revelation 1:8, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

I see this a little than you. Please explain how this is an attack on the deity of Christ He was named “before the sun and the signs were created, Before the stars of heaven were made”. Is that not in eternity past?




Jesus is Eternal, without beginning or end. Head of Days? Lord of Spirits? These terms are NOT found in the Bible.

These terms do not say occult or satanic at all. Jesus is head of all things and Lord of all things.

IF the Book of Enoch were valid, composing well over 100 chapters, there should be numerous New Testament references to it; but there aren't.

Are there numerous quotes from Jasher? Two mentions in the OT, I believe.

Although some people claim that the Bible quotes the Book of Enoch over 100 times, this is simply not true. Just as the Qur'an, the Book of Enoch borrows from the Word of God. In sharp contrast to the Book of Enoch, the New Testament often quotes the Book of Genesis.

It couldn’t borrow from the New Testament it was written well before Christ came.

If that is not enough please ask and I can post some more.

Please post the occult and satanic ones.


God bless you my friend. I really do not see you as being able to grasp the importance of rightly dividing the Word of God. It seems to me that you are going to believe every thing that backs up your belief and nothing which is different.

So, it is your choice.
 
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Believe as you wish my friend. I just gave you some information to ponder. But honestly, I do not believe that you will accept anything that contradicts what you have already decided that you want to believe.

So then, believe it!!!
At least for yourself you really should answer the six fingers and toes question, also why did God want the children killed. It really is most relevant. As you said it is your choice. I believe the answer actually contradicts what you believe.
 
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God bless you my friend. I really do not see you as being able to grasp the importance of rightly dividing the Word of God. It seems to me that you are going to believe every thing that backs up your belief and nothing which is different.

So, it is your choice.
This really is no different than any other topic on this forum, we all believe we are right and in 3 years on this forum I just recently saw the first person I am aware of change their position on a subject. I have done that in the past, it is just not easy for anyone to say they are wrong about much of anything in scripture. I really think your rightly dividing comment was unfair. I do not take this lightly and I do understand why some just can't accept it. God bless you as well my friend.
 
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This really is no different than any other topic on this forum, we all believe we are right and in 3 years on this forum I just recently saw the first person I am aware of change their position on a subject. I have done that in the past, it is just not easy for anyone to say they are wrong about much of anything in scripture. I really think your rightly dividing comment was unfair. I do not take this lightly and I do understand why some just can't accept it. God bless you as well my friend.

You are correct. When anyone is entrenched in their thoughts, it does not matter one little bit what the Scriptures actually do say.
 
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Major1

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At least for yourself you really should answer the six fingers and toes question, also why did God want the children killed. It really is most relevant. As you said it is your choice. I believe the answer actually contradicts what you believe.

You are focused on the mundane my friend. What does it matter if a man had 6 fingers or not. IT DOES NOT mean anything at all.

Today, right now.........
Antonio Alfonseca is a retired relief pitcher who last pitched for Philadelphia Phillies, Awas born with extra digits in both hands and feet.

Theodore Roosevelt “Hound Dog” Taylor was born with six fingers on his left hand; perhaps one of the reasons for him being an excellent American and singer.

Gemma Arterton is a British actress who was born with an extra finger on each hand.

I have a personal friend in Culman Al. who was born with four fingers.

What does it matter?????? It is irrelvent!!!!
 
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You are focused on the mundane my friend. What does it matter if a man had 6 fingers or not. IT DOES NOT mean anything at all.

Today, right now.........
Antonio Alfonseca is a retired relief pitcher who last pitched for Philadelphia Phillies, Awas born with extra digits in both hands and feet.

Theodore Roosevelt “Hound Dog” Taylor was born with six fingers on his left hand; perhaps one of the reasons for him being an excellent American and singer.

Gemma Arterton is a British actress who was born with an extra finger on each hand.

I have a personal friend in Culman Al. who was born with four fingers.

What does it matter?????? It is irrelvent!!!!
2 down 1 to go. Why did God want the children killed?
 
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Major1

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2 down 1 to go. Why did God want the children killed?

Good question. Lets see what we can do for you.

Some questions, by their very nature are difficult topics to take up. The things discussed make us queasy. However the Scriptures tell us to..............

I Peter 3:15 - "Need to be able to explain."

Jude 3 - "Need to be able to contend for the faith."

So then, since God was planning to place His holy nation in Canaan this would require the clearing out of anyone who was corrupt and evil. Unfortunately, the people who were already inhabiting Canaan were among the most corrupt and evil to have ever lived.

It is interesting to note that this action was not due to the Israelites' righteousness, no, instead it was due to the Canaanites' depravity which caused God to choose this method.

Consider what some of the things these people actually did.

Deuteronomy 12:31 tells us that these Canaanite religions practiced burnt live-child sacrifices to their idols.
Children were being burned alive in sacrifice to suffer the pain of their skin burning away into shreds, the fat under the skin melting, the pain of their blood coming to a bubbling boil, and the pain of breathing the fire into the lungs while trying to scream -- the desperation! Such actions must have sickened God; burning people alive was never ordained by Him nor ever came into His heart!

And these weren't unhealthy, sickly or deformed babies that were offered for live sacrifice, for such an offering would be viewed as offensive to the god. No, instead a parent was required to give a healthy and robust baby to be put through the fire! A culture in which parents accept such torturous murders against their own children is influenced by no one other than the destroyer of men himself, Satan.

But the Canaanites' depravity didn't stop with burnt child sacrifice; some of the inhabitants also practiced perverse sexual activities such as incest and inappropriate behavior with animals which is seen in Leviticus 18:6-27.

They also worshiped idols which were based on demons as listed in Leviticus 20:6, 23, Deuteronomy 32:17.

Archaeologists have documented much evidence regarding the tortuous sacrificial burning of children, the rape of children, the forced prostitution of women, filthy inappropriate behavior with animals, demon worship, and many other disgusting actions based on the worship of the Canaanites' false gods. Because these peoples were committing horrific, violent, and perverse deeds in the name of worship, and because the land was overrun with this assortment of Satanic thinking, God's Holiness required an extermination of these things and they were judged and found guilty.

What then is the wages of sin...........DEATH!
 
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You are focused on the mundane my friend. What does it matter if a man had 6 fingers or not. IT DOES NOT mean anything at all.

Today, right now.........
Antonio Alfonseca is a retired relief pitcher who last pitched for Philadelphia Phillies, Awas born with extra digits in both hands and feet.

Theodore Roosevelt “Hound Dog” Taylor was born with six fingers on his left hand; perhaps one of the reasons for him being an excellent American and singer.

Gemma Arterton is a British actress who was born with an extra finger on each hand.

I have a personal friend in Culman Al. who was born with four fingers.

What does it matter?????? It is irrelvent!!!!

It was mundane enough for the Holy Spirit to include this information about a man of great stature that was born of a giant. Unless there is some significance this could be considered useless information. A man born of a Giant with six fingers and toes who along with all of his kind God wanted exterminated. We should all ask why.


I’m sorry to disagree, but there is nothing normal, natural or mundane about this subject. The comparison to Antonio Alfonseca and the others you referred to were not giants and God did not have their families exterminated? You are comparing apples to oranges and ignoring the big picture. IMHO another attempt to make something supernatural and very significant in the workings God throughout the OT mundane and of no value.
 
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Major1

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It was mundane enough for the Holy Spirit to include this information about a man of great stature that was born of a giant. Unless there is some significance this could be considered useless information. A man born of a Giant with six fingers and toes who along with all of his kind God wanted exterminated. We should all ask why.


I’m sorry to disagree, but there is nothing normal, natural or mundane about this subject. The comparison to Antonio Alfonseca and the others you referred to were not giants and God did not have their families exterminated? You are comparing apples to oranges and ignoring the big picture. IMHO another attempt to make something supernatural and very significant in the workings God throughout the OT mundane and of no value.

I just do not see why you are so focused on "giants with 6 fingers". There were some in ancient days and there are some today. I just do not understand why it is important to you. I do not see any significance to the idea.

It is a known fact that children who are raped and sexually abused by adults have an enormously high rate of becoming sexual abusers when they themselves become adults. In His great wisdom God could not unleash those broken children upon His people.

These sexually abused children became disease carriers; and many sexually transmitted diseases can lay dormant for years, even decades! (Chlamydia, Gonorrhea, Hepatitis, Herpes, Syphillis, etc.). If these children were to be allowed to grow up and be assimilated into the Israelites they would unwittingly spread these diseases to their Israelite spouses and their unborn children. In God's great wisdom He could not unleash these plagues of disease upon His Holy People either.

Also, there was no such thing as "closed" adoptions at that time. These Canaanite children would grow up and eventually become aware of, and curious about, their family roots and culture. As happens even in modern day adoptees these children would be drawn to their roots and begin slipping into some of the original practices of their forefathers. Since many of these Canaanite practices were vile, abhorrent, and perverse God couldn't let those influences of perversion, idolatry, and Satanic thinking take root within His Holy Nation.

Although these situations weren't the fault of the children God already knew that those children were irreversibly corrupted by the wickedness they had been raised in. Therefore, the Canaanite children who posed such dangers to the Israelites had to be slated for destruction, while the Canaanite children who weren't corrupted by these things were allowed to live according to Numbers 31:18, Deuteronomy 20:14.

 
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Good question. Lets see what we can do for you.

Some questions, by their very nature are difficult topics to take up. The things discussed make us queasy. However the Scriptures tell us to..............

I Peter 3:15 - "Need to be able to explain."

Jude 3 - "Need to be able to contend for the faith."

So then, since God was planning to place His holy nation in Canaan this would require the clearing out of anyone who was corrupt and evil. Unfortunately, the people who were already inhabiting Canaan were among the most corrupt and evil to have ever lived.

It is interesting to note that this action was not due to the Israelites' righteousness, no, instead it was due to the Canaanites' depravity which caused God to choose this method.

Consider what some of the things these people actually did.

Deuteronomy 12:31 tells us that these Canaanite religions practiced burnt live-child sacrifices to their idols.
Children were being burned alive in sacrifice to suffer the pain of their skin burning away into shreds, the fat under the skin melting, the pain of their blood coming to a bubbling boil, and the pain of breathing the fire into the lungs while trying to scream -- the desperation! Such actions must have sickened God; burning people alive was never ordained by Him nor ever came into His heart!

And these weren't unhealthy, sickly or deformed babies that were offered for live sacrifice, for such an offering would be viewed as offensive to the god. No, instead a parent was required to give a healthy and robust baby to be put through the fire! A culture in which parents accept such torturous murders against their own children is influenced by no one other than the destroyer of men himself, Satan.

But the Canaanites' depravity didn't stop with burnt child sacrifice; some of the inhabitants also practiced perverse sexual activities such as incest and inappropriate behavior with animals which is seen in Leviticus 18:6-27.

They also worshiped idols which were based on demons as listed in Leviticus 20:6, 23, Deuteronomy 32:17.

Archaeologists have documented much evidence regarding the tortuous sacrificial burning of children, the rape of children, the forced prostitution of women, filthy inappropriate behavior with animals, demon worship, and many other disgusting actions based on the worship of the Canaanites' false gods. Because these peoples were committing horrific, violent, and perverse deeds in the name of worship, and because the land was overrun with this assortment of Satanic thinking, God's Holiness required an extermination of these things and they were judged and found guilty.

What then is the wages of sin...........DEATH!

I appreciate you at least addressing the issue. No surprise I disagree and here is why.

1. First, all of the groups God said to exterminated were Giant clans.

2. I do not dispute the idolatry and evil practices you outlined. What I do disagree with is the notion that God’s solution for mistreated children is to kill them.

3. Sometimes the animals were killed sometimes they were taken as spoils of war. Why then could not the children be spared? God is a merciful God, right?

4. Children were not “corrupt and evil” spiritually, it is my contention there were corrupt by this unholy union you reject as having happened.

Genesis 6: 11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

Were all of the children before the flood corrupt and evil spiritually when some of them had no concept of evil or how to be corrupt before God, yet God declared all flesh was corrupt save Noah and his family?

Genesis 6: 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Noah had not been corrupted (DNA) I believe that is backed up by:

Genesis 6: 9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Scripture plainly tells us in this context “generations” refers to Noah’s blood line (his sons). So explain to me why when I say “perfect in his generation” refers to Noah’s blood line (DNA) I am not on sound scriptural ground.

It makes no sense in this context to say “perfect in his generations” refers to Noah’s spiritual standing before God. The passage already said he was just before God.

You are right I probably will not change my mind on this, but it is not because I have not “rightly divided the word of God” I have come to my conclusions through much study.

I understand you probably will not change your mind either. You’ve made your case and I have made mine it is up to everyone who reads this thread to decide where they come down on this.
 
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