God's Sabbath rest is not a weekly seventh day rest

Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4 said:

Sabbath is created for us , not for God ( Mark 2:27-28) .

Actually God will work on Sabbath , because he need to work another week for second bride , because like Jacob , he got one bride but not the one he wants

God also worked on sabbath during battle of Jericho i believe.

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The Sabbath was not a moral law, it was ritual. Moral laws have to do with how we treat God and our fellow man plus ourselves. Ritual laws dealt with observing days, how the Ark was carried, the temple, sacrifices and things. Ritual laws could be broken when needed. Moral laws have not provision for one to break them. No where in all of scripture can we find that Gentiles were ever instructed to observe any day.

Doveaman said:

"I had not known sin, except through the law: for I had not known what coveting really was, except the law had said, ‘Do not covet.’…But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful." -- (Romans 7:7-13).

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Indeed - that law defines what sin IS - as we already saw in Romans 3:19-20 and again in Romans 7.

Before the letter of the law was given there was no real consciousness of sin among men, everyone was lawless, except for those few individuals who were led by God's Spirit

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total nonsense.

Even Romans 1 rejects that idea telling us that godless no-Bible pagans are aware of sin.

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But in regard to this --

There is no possibility at all of pitting the Holy Spirit against scripture ... since 2 Peter 1:20-21 says it is the Holy Spirit that is the author of scripture.

And we both know it.

"SIN IS transgression against the LAW" 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT.

you said ..

Doveaman said:

Not sure what you are trying to say here.

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I didn't think that was the hard part. what is "not to get"???

Doveaman said:

The law of the Spirit existed before Sinai. Adam, in the garden, was commanded by the Spirit of God, he was not commanded by the letter of the law.

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The "letters" in the Bible are used to compose "words" - the Bible is the "Word of God" because it is authored by the Holy Spirit - who is the third person of the Godhead.

Is this cause you confusion? Why keep trying suppose division between the Holy Spirit and the Bible?

I don't see the point of it.

God "spoke" the Ten Commandments at Sinai and then WROTE the Ten on stone.

You're making a big difference between the time God spoke it - vs wrote it as if writing it puts it at war against His spoken word.

Seems a bit odd.

Doveaman said:

What exactly are you saying here?
I said the law of the Spirit existed before Sinai, not the letter, and you respond by saying "There is no possibility at all of pitting the Holy Spirit against scripture".

How is the Holy Spirit being pitted against scripture?

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"the law of the Spirit" before the written Word of God at Sinai - "as if" the two are not in agreement?

Or was it your intent to say that the Law as known to Abraham in Genesis 26:5 - is in perfect agreement with the written Word of God??

We do not transgress "against" the law, we transgress against God.
.

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You offer division between God and His Law -- where there is none.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

I prefer the Word of God when it comes to doctrine.

Bob S said:

The Sabbath was not a moral law, .

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Until you read the Bible in places like James 2 and in Mark 7:6-13.

"This IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to this obvious Bible detail - such as --

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

Bible details matter.

Doveaman said:

What exactly are you saying here?

I said the law of the Spirit existed before Sinai, not the letter, and you respond by saying "There is no possibility at all of pitting the Holy Spirit against scripture".

How is the Holy Spirit being pitted against scripture?
There you go again putting your own spin on scripture.

We do not transgress "against" the law, we transgress against God.

We do not sin against the law, we sin against God.

The law reveals our transgression/sin against God.

You are correct, the law condemns the whole world because of our inability to obey it. This is why the law had to be made obsolete, because it condemns us all. Those who are now in Christ are no longer under any condemnation of the law or under any obligation to the law:

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free...You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ...But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law...But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such there is no law." -- (Galatians 5).
Do we then make void the righteous requirement of the LAW by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the righteous requirement of the LAW. And the righteous requirement of the LAW is Love: "Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." -- (Romans 13:9-10).
Indeed not - the letter of the law reveals the sin that was already in the world before the letter of the law was given:

“For before the law was given, sin was in the world.” -- (Romans 5:13). "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin." -- (Romans 3:20).
I already responded to this copy-paste in my previous post.
More copy-paste.
The letters in the Bible, which includes historical accounts, is not the same as the letters of the law written on stone. Big difference.

The letters on stone were written on stone perhaps indicating the hardheartedness of those who try to obey those stone-letters.
And the Holy Spirit authored the Bible to also say: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory...will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?" -- (2 Corinthians 3:6-8).
The confusion lies with you, since you are the one who is supposing a division by your insistence that Christians must obey an obsolete law that brought death.
Nor do I.
God also "spoke" and WROTE: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter...for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone" -- (2 Corinthians 3:6-8).
No, I am making a big difference between the old covenant and the new covenant, between the letter of the law and the Spirit of the law, between the ministry that brought death and the ministry that brings life, between a law that is eternal and a law that is obsolete:

"By calling this covenant 'new,' He has made the first one obsolete" -- (Hebrews 8:13).
And therein lies your confusion.

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Great posts brother! Excellent job of defending the truth! You are truly a blessing to Christian Forums!

Doveaman said:

"By the seventh day God had finished the works He had been doing; so on the seventh day He rested from all His works. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all the works of creating that He had done." -- (Genesis 2:2-3).

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Hi friends, I am new here so please forgive me if I am coming here late. I thought this topic was interesting as I have just finished a bible study of Col 2:14-17 and its connection with Gen 2:1-3. I believe God's Word and we should correctly divide the Word of truth line upon line and precept upon precept. Anyhow I would like to share this study with you all

Col 2:14-17,
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; 15, And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath day(s): 17, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The context is verse 14 which is the blotting out of the handwriting of ordinances to the cross. What is the handwriting of ordinances that were nailed to the cross? The Greek work used here is δόγμα dogma dog'-mah From the base of G1380; law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree; V16 Omit “the”not used in the Greek; Sabbath days is plural; Sabbaton meaning cease from secular work; rest)

Scripture points:

· Blotting out or nailing the handwriting of ordinances to the cross (v14)
· The cross triumphing over principalities and powers (v 15)
· No one to Judge you in meat and drink, holy days, new moon of the sabbath day(s) (v16)
· Which are a Shadow of things to come (v17)

ordinance.

So it is clear the context of Col 2:16-17 is the completion of the civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical laws of Moses which the writer says is finished and nailed to the cross.

Here is the actual Greek to English translation of the Col 2:16-17 verses from the interlinear:

16 Not therefore anyone you let judge in regards to food or in regards to drink or in regards to a feast (or festival) or a new moon or a Sabbath (plural). 17 which are a shadow of things coming but body of Christ.

The word rendered "holy-day" - ἑορτὴ heortē - in the Greek means a "feast" or "festival;"
Now, notice the key context within Col 2:16-17; No one is to judge you in regards to meat or drink, a feast (festival), or of the New Moon or of sabbath(s).

The Greek word for sabbath used G4521; σάββατο; sabbaton which means to cease from secular labor, stop work, rest.

Context within Col 2:16-17:
(1) meat or drink
(2) feast or festival
(3) new moons
(4) sabbath(s)

So the overall context of Col 2:14-17 is in judging in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses (v 14)

Col 2 is talking about the ceremonial laws from Moses that referred to the annual festivals of Lev 23; Deut 10; Num 27 and 28. Now let’s have a look at the Old Testament scriptures to see what Col 2 is talking about. Remember the overall context is in regards to meat and drink, feast days (festivals), new moons and sabbath(s) that are a part of the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical laws of Moses that were completed and nailed to the cross. If we can find references to the above context it will help us to understand what Col 2:14-17 is talking about because these are Shadows that pointed to Jesus.

Old Testament references to Col 2:14-17; Line upon Line Precept upon Precept:

Col 2:16-17,
Let no man therefore judge you in (1) meat, or in drink, or in respect of an (2) feast, or of the (3) new moon, or of the (4) sabbath(s): Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Eze 45:17-21,
It shall be the prince’s duty to furnish the (1) burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the (2) feasts, the (3) new moons, and the (4) Sabbaths, at all the appointed (3) feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel. Thus says the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary: And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court. And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erred, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house. In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the Passover, a Feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.

1Ch 23:31
and whenever burnt offerings were presented to the LORD on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moon (2) feasts and at the appointed festivals. They were to serve before the LORD regularly in the proper number and in the way prescribed for them.

2Ch 2:4,
Now I am about to build a temple for the Name of the LORD my God and to dedicate it to him for burning fragrant incense before him, for setting out the consecrated bread regularly, and for making burnt offerings every morning and evening and on the (4) Sabbaths, at the (3) New Moons and at the appointed (2) festivals of the LORD our God. This is a lasting ordinance for Israel.

Hos 2:11,
I will stop all her celebrations: her (2) yearly festivals, her (3) New Moons, her (4) Sabbaths and all her (2) appointed festivals.

It is interesting to note in the Old Testament the word Sabbath (shabbath 7676 from shabath 7673 meaning “rest”) is not only used for the weekly Sabbath but is also applied to the first and last days of the annual Jewish Festivals. The Greek Word used in Col 2:16 is Sabbaton meaning to cease from secular work; rest.

The monthly New Moon Sabbaths in relation to these festivals could fall on any day of the week. These were to start the beginning of the annual Jewish feasts. They were to be rest (Sabbath) days and restricted or no work was to be done. (Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

High Sabbaths, in most Christian and Messianic Jewish usage, are seven annual Biblical festivals and rest days, recorded in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.This is an extension of the term "high day" found in the King James Version at John 19:31-42. The seven festivals do not necessarily occur on weekly Shabbat (seventh-day Sabbath) and are called by the name miqra ("called assembly") in Hebrew (Lev. 23). They are observed by Jews and a minority of Christians. Three of them occur in spring: the first and seventh days of Pesach (Passover), and Shavuot (Pentecost) which occurs in summer. Three occur in fall, in the seventh month, and are also called shabbaton: Rosh Hashanah (Trumpets); Yom Kippur, the "Sabbath of Sabbaths" (Atonement); and the first and eighth days of Sukkoth (Tabernacles). Sometimes the word shabbaton is extended to mean all seven festivals. The Gospel of John says of the night immediately following Christ's burial that "that sabbath day was a high day" (19:31-42). That night was Nisan 15, just after the first day of Passover week (Unleavened Bread) and an annual miqra and rest day, in most chronologies. (In other systems, it was Nisan 14, i.e., weekly but not annual Sabbath.) The King James Version may thus be the origin of naming the annual rest days "High Sabbaths" in English (source: wiki).

All of the above have their origin from the ceremonial laws of Moses found in Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29. All these references are in connection to; (1) Food and Drink offerings, (2) Feast days, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast Sabbath(s)

So in summary, it should be very clear that Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses along with the annual Jewish feast days that all pointed to the coming of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross the Jewish feasts along with the food and drink offerings, festivals and New Moon festival Sabbath(s) which all pointed to Jesus where a shadow of things to come. Many of the feast days in Lev 23 were were none work days in the Greek Col 2:16 were Sabbaton cease from secular work.

Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses in the annual ceremonial Feast days of Lev 23; Deut and Numbers that all pointed to Jesus and were nailed to the Cross including the annual new moon feast Sabbaths that could fall on any day of the week.

Line upon line and Precept upon precept.....

God's 7th Day Sabbath commandment (Ex 20:8-11) and the annual ceremonial Sabbaths for feast days of Col 2:14-17

What is the difference between God’s 4th commandment and the annual feast sabbath(s) of Col 2:16-17? To answer this question you need to understand the difference between God’s Law (10 commandments) and the laws of Moses. Let’s have a look at what that Word of God says. God’s Law (10 commandments) had a similar (not same) role is it did in the Old Testament as it does in the New and that is;

God’s Law (10 commandments) had a similar (not same) role is it did in the Old Testament as it does in the New and that is to

(1) point out what sin is and the punishment of sin which is death (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4). It was never a cure for sin. But it was the work of God which is forever and the foundation of the Old Covenant, the New Covenant and the Judgement to come.

Scripture proof:
Ex 32:16; Ex 31:18; 31:18; Ex 20:1-22; Deut 10:5; Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23; Heb 7:19; Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31; Ps 111:7-8; Rev 12:17; 14:12; 22:14; 1John 3:5-8; 1John 2:3-4; Ecc 3:14

(2) The laws of Moses however were the prescriptive cure for sin with all the Levitical and ceremonial laws, burnt offerings, annual feast days foretelling the plan of salvation which were connected to Feast days with New Moon sabbaths, food and drink offerings and other Holy days. These where all types pointing to Jesus and the plan of salvation.

Scripture proof:
Lev 1:1-13; Lev 23:1-44; Num 28:1-31; 29:1-40; Deut 24:10-11; Ex 24:3; Deut 31:24-26; Col 2:16-16; Heb 10:1; Eph 2:14-15; Lev 4; 5; 6; Heb 4:14; 9;10; John 1:29

Every reference in connection to Col 2:14-17 is in relation to (1) burnt offerings; (2) Sabbaths held at the New Moon feasts and at the appointed festivals and (3) food and drink offerings. The context is referring to the annual ceremonial feast days described in Leviticus Chapter 23; Numbers chapters 28 and 29. As mentioned earlier these were all done away at the cross because they were Shadows of an unfinished word that was completed at the death of Jesus (Col 2:16-17).

Let’s now look at what the 4th commandment actually says?

Exo 20:8-11,
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.

Now please notice some key points;

Where does it say in the 4th commandment of God’s Law that we need to do (1) burnt offerings (2) keep the annual Sabbaths at the New Moons at the appointed festivals and (3) offer food and drink offerings? It does not because it is God’s Law that points out sin. It is the same Law that we have today and is forever because it was made by God himself and represents the character of God and is the knowledge of good and evil. It shows us what sin is (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4; Rom 6:23).

Now notice the last part of the commandment in Ex 20:11 this is the reason the commandment was given. (v11) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.This is a reference back to Gen 2:1-3
What does Genesis 2:1-3 teach us about God’s 4th commandment the 7th Day Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments?

GEN 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Scripture context points:
* God finished all the work of creation on the 7th Day of the week (v1)
* God ended His Work on the 7th Day of the creation week and rested from all His work of creation, it was completed no more work required (v2)
* God blessed the 7th Day and set it apart as a holy day as a memorial of creation

Critical questions and answers:

When was God’s 7th Day Sabbath made, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind?
It was made BEFORE the fall of mankind at the end of the creation week on the 7th Day and was the result of a FINISHED work!

Was God’s work of creation a FINISHED WORK or an UNFUNISHED WORK?
The 7th Day Sabbath was the result of the FINISHED AND COMPLETED WORK of creation!

When were God’s Laws and the laws of Moses given, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind? Obviously AFTER the fall of mankind (Ex 20:1-17, Lev 23:1-44, etc) they were part of God’s plan of salvation.

So in summary the 7th Day Sabbath is a memorial of the FINISHED work of creation and if it is a FINISHED work and a memorial of God’s creation that was given BEFORE the FALL of mankind before SIN had entered the world and before the plan of salvation was given to FALLEN man. If it was a part of a FINISHED work then it cannot be a Shadow of salvation because a Shadow was part of an UNFINISHED work given in the laws of Moses and was given AFTER the fall of mankind where the Sabbath was made before the fall.

Overall summary:
* Col 2:14-17 is referring to the ceremonial laws of Moses (v 14)

* The ceremonial laws of Moses included all the (1) food and drink offering, (2) feast days and festivals, (3) New Moons and (4) annual feast sabbaths (v 16)

* These were all Shadows pointing to Jesus and were completed at His death (v14; 17)

* The in text context of Col 2:16 is referring to the Old Testament scriptures word for word in relation to the laws of Moses (Col 2:16-17; Eze 45:17-21; 1Ch 23:31; 2Ch 2:4; Hos 2:11; Lev 23; Num 10; 28; 29)

* God’s Law (10 commandments) was the work of God himself and separate from every other law given to Israel. Its role was to point out sin

* The laws of Moses were to teach Israel the plan of salvation pointing to Jesus which was completed at the death of Jesus. It could not identify sin but its provided a cure for sin in animal sacrificed and burnt offerings and food and drink offerings which all pointed to Jesus (Col 2:14-17)

* Col 2:16 is referring to the annual New Moon ceremonial sabbaths connected to feast days and mean and drink offerings and not the 4th commandment of God’s Law.

* God’s 4th commandment is a reference to Gen 2:1-3 which is the 7th day of the creation week which was part of the FINISHED work creation given BEFORE the fall of mankind so cannot be a part of any Shadow plan of Salvation because its origin is in the FINISHED creation week BEFORE the fall.

Closing remarks:

Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man. He is the God of creation that made it for mankind. God commands us to keep the 7th Day Sabbath as a Holy day because he rested on this day. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. If we love him we must follow Him (Mark 2:27-28; John 14:15)

The 7th Day Sabbath is indeed the rest of the creator which was made a Holy day by God himself for His people. Jesus is the one that commands us to keep it and your OP comes crumbling down in Gen 2:1-3; Mark 2:27-28 because it is a finished work given before sin had entered the world.


Hope this helps the faithful Bereans.

God bless you all line upon line and precept upon precept.....

Danthemailman said:

Great posts brother! Excellent job of defending the truth! You are truly a blessing to Christian Forums!

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Amen! my friend Amen!

LoveGodsWord said:

Hi friends, I am new here so please forgive me if I am coming here late. I thought this topic was interesting as I have just finished a bible study of Col 2:14-17 and its connection with Gen 2:1-3. I believe God's Word and we should correctly divide the Word of truth line upon line and precept upon precept. Anyhow I would like to share this study with you all

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Welcome my friend and thanks for sharing what you believe to be the truth. I was a SDA for forty years. Most of that time I merely accepted that all was the truth. It was not until I started seeing cracks in some of the doctrine that I started studying the Holy Writ to find out if all I had been taught was the truth.

To take the time to go through your presentation would be time consuming and probably would not change our minds as to what Paul meant when he wrote those verses. What I would like to present is a very simple set of verses that if honestly studied will change your mind about the Bible study you just completed.

I am referring to Paul's writings in 2Cor 3:7-11.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

In those verses we find words like "was", "will not", "ministry that brought death" and "transitory" all which were referring to "engraved in letters on stone". "Was" is past tense and should be taken as just that. "Will not" leads to something new "ministry of the Holy Spirit" and that is in comparison with "ministry that brought death". Then we see the word "transitory" used two times in reference to the ministry that brought death which was engraved in letters on stone.

The ministry that brought death, the 10 commandments have past as the guide for the now defunct nation of Israel. Jesus replaced the ten commandments with the Holy Spirit as the guide for all mankind. I am sure you are wondering why I am using these verses from the same author as Col2. Paul in verses 7-11 is telling us that the Ten Commandments are no longer our guide. The fourth commandment WAS part of the ten. Christians are not subject to the defunct Ten Commandments thus making your Bible study completely wrong in its conclusion.

The Sabbath Command in the Ten Commandments was ritual as compared to the other nine commands. Nine dealt with morality or how we deal with God and our fellow man. The Sabbath along with all of the days Israel was to observe were ritual or ceremonial. Anything dealing with how we treat our fellow man is forever. Morality is forever. Ceremonies or ritual events are for as long as there is a need for them. Israel ended at the Cross, but the Jews didn't realize this until the Temple was destroyed and they were scattered like those of Babel. At the Cross the new covenant was ratified with Jesus own blood. This covenant is about eternal life not about remembering events by keeping days.

In conclusion Paul was telling new Christians in Col 2 not to allow Judaizers to tell them that they have to submit themselves to certain foods, new moon celebrations, feasts and Sabbaths because those things were mere shadows and Christ is reality. This conclusion coincides perfectly with the 2Cor account of the Ten Commandments with its weekly Sabbath.

SDAs try so hard to make the rest of the World think we have to observe the Sabbath. Millions upon millions of hard earned dollars have been spent on that message. They truly believe we will not be saved if we do not keep the Sabbath. Scripture has been twisted to try to prove that we must join their ranks in order to be saved. Nothing could be further from the truth. Adventists are so fixed on their prophet that they allow themselves to take verses out of context or even do things like place a 10 where the word commandments appear in scripture. We see the above Bible study as an example of taking a couple of easy understood verses and making them say something to try to prove that the Sabbath is indeed relevant to the Christian life and then try to prove t is indeed salvational. Their theory reeks of salvation by works which is diametrically opposed to the writings of the Apostle Paul.

The fact is, if you study the old covenant, Torah was never meant to be a plan of salvation. Torah was given as the way Israel was to live in the desert and in the land of Canaan. The observance of Sabbath has absolutely nothing to do with Salvation and it ended with the rest of Torah when Jesus uttered the Words "it is finished".
The new covenant is all about salvation. It is about loving others as Jesus loves us. When we accept Jesus as our Savior we accept His plan of salvation and that is the Royal Law of Love. One obligation that we do out of love is Holy Communion, when and where is not stated. No days, months, or years are part of our covenant with Jesus. James admonishes us to serve others and states that without works we have no faith. He was not referring to works of the law, he was telling us about doing good deeds. This, out of love, becomes part of the Christians life. Matt25:
40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters you were doing it to me!’

Bob S said:

Welcome my friend and thanks for sharing what you believe to be the truth. I was a SDA for forty years. Most of that time I merely accepted that all was the truth. It was not until I started seeing cracks in some of the doctrine that I started studying the Holy Writ to find out if all I had been taught was the truth.

To take the time to go through your presentation would be time consuming and probably would not change our minds as to what Paul meant when he wrote those verses. What I would like to present is a very simple set of verses that if honestly studied will change your mind about the Bible study you just completed.

I am referring to Paul's writings in 2Cor 3:7-11.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

In those verses we find words like "was", "will not", "ministry that brought death" and "transitory" all which were referring to "engraved in letters on stone". "Was" is past tense and should be taken as just that. "Will not" leads to something new "ministry of the Holy Spirit" and that is in comparison with "ministry that brought death". Then we see the word "transitory" used two times in reference to the ministry that brought death which was engraved in letters on stone.

The ministry that brought death, the 10 commandments have past as the guide for the now defunct nation of Israel. Jesus replaced the ten commandments with the Holy Spirit as the guide for all mankind. I am sure you are wondering why I am using these verses from the same author as Col2. Paul in verses 7-11 is telling us that the Ten Commandments are no longer our guide. The fourth commandment WAS part of the ten. Christians are not subject to the defunct Ten Commandments thus making your Bible study completely wrong in its conclusion.

The Sabbath Command in the Ten Commandments was ritual as compared to the other nine commands. Nine dealt with morality or how we deal with God and our fellow man. The Sabbath along with all of the days Israel was to observe were ritual or ceremonial. Anything dealing with how we treat our fellow man is forever. Morality is forever. Ceremonies or ritual events are for as long as there is a need for them. Israel ended at the Cross, but the Jews didn't realize this until the Temple was destroyed and they were scattered like those of Babel. At the Cross the new covenant was ratified with Jesus own blood. This covenant is about eternal life not about remembering events by keeping days.

In conclusion Paul was telling new Christians in Col 2 not to allow Judaizers to tell them that they have to submit themselves to certain foods, new moon celebrations, feasts and Sabbaths because those things were mere shadows and Christ is reality. This conclusion coincides perfectly with the 2Cor account of the Ten Commandments with its weekly Sabbath.

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Hi Bob,

So nice to meet you here. I probably have not caught up on every post here. As for me just a few things you may have a misunderstanding about. When I shared my bible study from God's Word above. It was not any churches or other persons bible study. It is my own personal time with Jesus studying His Word for myself. I do not follow any church, man or women to learn God's Word. I ask Jesus and then I study God's Word for myself. It is too bad you did not take the time to read the bible study I shared above in post 325 above.

I think you would get a blessing from reading it because it is scripture, line upon line and precept upon precept. I believe that it is God's Word and it is amazing. Everything in the New Testament scripture comes from the Old Testament. God's Word does not contradict itself. If we find that what we believe contradicts other parts of scripture this should be a warning sign that maybe what we believe is not the correct interpretation of God's Word. Jesus says we are to study to show ourselves approved workman correctly dividing the Word of truth and that our life only comes from every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4; 2Tim 2:15)

I do not have any problem with 2Cor 3:7-11. These scriptures are in harmony with what I believe. They are referring to the New Covenant. God's 10 commandments have the same role today that they had in the Old Covenant. They are the ministration of death because their role was only to point out sin and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). They were never meant to be a cure for sin. In the Old Covenant the laws of Moses taught the plan of salvation and were the cure for sin through burnt offerings and animal sacrifices all the Levitical and ceremonial laws and Feast days.

In the New Covenant God's Law (10 commandments) still gives us a knowledge of what sin is and still points out sin and the wages of sin and it is still has the same purpose as what it was in the Old Covenant to point out sin and the wages of sin (death). The laws of Moses have been nailed to the cross because they were all pointing to Jesus and are no longer needed. The New Covenant is a much better covenant because God's Law shows us that all our righteousness is as filthy rags and that all we can do without Jesus is sin and we are all guilty before God. (Rom 3:19-20; 1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23) God's Law is our school master that brings us to the Cross so we can see Jesus (Gal 3:24). God's Law shows us who we are sinners in need of a Savior so that the only thing we depend on is Jesus and His Word for salvation. By Faith are you saved through grace and not of yourselves it is a gift of God (Eph 2:8). Without God's Law we have no knowledge of SIN. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost.

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

Matt 9:12-13
They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

You cannot know the Gospel of Jesus without God's Law (10 commandments) because it is God's Law that gives us a knowledge of sin and brings us to Jesus.

It is too bad you did not get the chance to read my bible study of Col 2:14-17 and Gen 2:1-3 above. I think you would get a blessing from it

God bless you friend

Bob S said:

The fact is, if you study the old covenant, Torah was never meant to be a plan of salvation. Torah was given as the way Israel was to live in the desert and in the land of Canaan. The observance of Sabbath has absolutely nothing to do with Salvation and it ended with the rest of Torah when Jesus uttered the Words "it is finished". The new covenant is all about salvation. It is about loving others as Jesus loves us. When we accept Jesus as our Savior we accept His plan of salvation and that is the Royal Law of Love. One obligation that we do out of love is Holy Communion, when and where is not stated. No days, months, or years are part of our covenant with Jesus. James admonishes us to serve others and states that without works we have no faith. He was not referring to works of the law, he was telling us about doing good deeds. This, out of love, becomes part of the Christians life. Matt25:40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters you were doing it to me!’

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Hi Bob,

I just wanted to share a different perspective for your consideration. I am not sure if you have a right interpretation of what the Torah is so I was hoping to share with you what I have found in my own personal study of God's Word which may be helpful to you in your own study.

“Torah” (Hebrew) or “Pentateuch” (Greek); the Book of Moses (These are the first 5 books in the bible; (1) Genesis, (2) Exodus, (3) Leviticus, (4) Numbers and (5) Deuteronomy) which were all written by Moses.

The purpose of the Torah or Book of Moses was to;

1. Provide the history of the 7 Day week of the creation of all things and the Creator (Genesis)
2. Provide the history of the fall of mankind into sin and our destruction because of sin with a great flood (Genesis)
3. Provide the history of God’s faithful people that followed God through this period (the minority Genesis and Exodos).
4. Provide the history of God’s covenant to Abraham and his seed because they obeyed God through faith and how God worked through his chosen people (Genesis and Exodos)
5. Provide history of the oppression of Gods people from those that do not follow God (Exodus)
6. Provide history of the deliverance of God’s people from oppression (Exodus)
7. Provide history of how God gave His Law (10 commandments) to his people which was spoken by God, written by God on two tables of stone from Sinai. (Exodus)
8. Provide a description of the plan of salvation from sin revealed through the Priestly Sanctuary service, ceremonial laws and animal sacrificial system that include lessons from feast and holy days, new moons and ceremonial Sabbaths connected to these feasts (e.g. The Passover, Day of Atonement, Feast of Trumpets etc.) that all point to the coming of Jesus as the Saviour of the world. (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy)
9. The rest of the Book of Moses (Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) outlines laws of Moses that are related to (the sanctuary service, ceremonial laws, civil and health laws.

Some people try to say that the Torah is the 10 commandments but it is only a description of them and the background as to why they were given. The Book of Moses “Torah” is based around God’s 10 commandments but is not God’s 10 commandments. It describes what the 10 commandment are, how they were given and provides the background as to why God’s Law was given. Its main focus is in providing the background as to the fall of mankind and to outline God's plan of salvation.

The main purpose of the Torah besides the 9 points above was to provide a prescription if God’s people should sin and break any of his 10 commandments through the Sanctuary service, ceremonial laws and sacrificial animal systems. The Feast days, Holy Days, New Moons and annual ceremonial Sabbaths, were a shadow of things to come and pointed to the coming of the Messiah (Col 2:16-17, Heb 10:1, Eph 2:14). These all pointed to Jesus as our sacrifice for sin and our advocate in heaven as our great high priest. The Torah (Book of Moses) is not the Law of God but a background to WHY it was given and the remedy for sin in the Old covenant. It was always separated from the 10 commandments (tables of Stone) placed in the side of the “Ark of the Covenant” but not inside the Ark of the Covenant with the 10 commandments. The Torah or Book of Moses is complimentary to God’s Law but is not God’s Law. God's Law is forever. The laws of Moses (Sanctuary laws, ceremonial laws, annual feasts etc) on the other hand were all Shadows that pointed to Jesus and were nailed to the cross.

Hope this was helpful

God bless

Doveaman said:

Thanks.

I was a Sabbath-day observer for many years, so I'm fairly familiar with the arguments for and against it.

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Hi Doveaman,

So nice to meet you here. As for me I do not follow any church or man or women. I ask Jesus and study God's Word for myself because I believe that is the only way we can find Jesus and have salvation. I was wondering if you have had the opportunity to look at and respond to my post above # 325?

This is my own personal study of God's Word. I was wondering if you have had the opportunity to read it and consider what the scriptures are saying? I found this thread interesting because my study above is in direct relation to Col 2 and Gen 2:1-3. Ok nice to meet you here. Look forward to your response.

God bless you

LoveGodsWord said:

Hi Bob,

So nice to meet you here. I probably have not caught up on every post here. As for me just a few things you may have a misunderstanding about. When I shared my bible study from God's Word above. It was not any churches or other persons bible study. It is my own personal time with Jesus studying His Word for myself. I do not follow any church, man or women to learn God's Word. I ask Jesus and then I study God's Word for myself. It is too bad you did not take the time to read the bible study I shared above in post 325 above.

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I need to clarify that I read your entire post before engaging my return post.

I do not have any problem with 2Cor 3:7-11. These scriptures are in harmony with what I believe. They are referring to the New Covenant.

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Hold on there my friend, I have heard many excuses from Messianics and SDAs concerning those verses, but I have never heard your theory. I need some clarification to understand how you would come t your conclusion. You didn't really expect me to roll over and agree did you? Those verses are referring to the 10 commandments being temporary laws given only to the nation of Israel and ended with the demise of Israel. Deut 5:2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

God's 10 commandments have the same role today that they had in the Old Covenant.

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Not according to Gal 3:19 and 2Cor3:7-11

They are the ministration of death because their role was only to point out sin and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).

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Now you have it.

They were never meant to be a cure for sin. In the Old Covenant the laws of Moses taught the plan of salvation and were the cure for sin through burnt offerings and animal sacrifices all the Levitical and ceremonial laws and Feast days.

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The plan of salvation was known by Moses and it was not part of Torah. Mses wrote how Abraham was saved and of course it was not because he kept any laws. He was saved the same way Christians are saved, He believed. The law had nothing to say about salvation. The law did have a temporary fix for every Israelite when they sinned, but it was never about salvation. If I am wrong I challenge you to come up with scripture that proves me wrong. Just remember one thing, I, too, study the Holy Writ. I took others word for too many years.

In the New Covenant God's Law (10 commandments) still gives us a knowledge of what sin is and still points out sin and the wages of sin and it is still has the same purpose as what it was in the Old Covenant to point out sin and the wages of sin (death).

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Question, would you go to a doctor that only had a 101 course in medicine? The 10 commandments were like a 101 course. I have heard from well intentioned folks like you parroting accolades about the 10 commandments being the eternal standard of morality because God used His finger to write them on stone. I do not diminish God in any way, but the ten commandments did not even contain the law of love, the greatest commandment. I could go on and on about all the things we can and are being done to hurt our fellow man that were not mentioned in the 10. They were just the tip of the iceberg concerning morality. Think about it. Please do not come back that the 10 were about love. That too has been parroted down through the ages and is not fortified by any scripture. If they had been about love they would not have been written the way they were.

The laws of Moses have been nailed to the cross because they were all pointing to Jesus and are no longer needed. The New Covenant is a much better covenant because God's Law shows us that all our righteousness is as filthy rags and that all we can do without Jesus is sin and we are all guilty before God. (Rom 3:19-20; 1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23)

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Hold on there partner. It appears that you have taken the liberty to split God's laws to Israel into two parts. The book of the law contains the 10 commandments. The stones are gone and now you tell us the book is gone too. Jesus in Matt 5 didn't tell us that He only fulfilled part of the law. Not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law until all is fulfilled. All the law would be fulfilled when the time came. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

God's Law is our school master that brings us to the Cross so we can see Jesus (Gal 3:24). God's Law shows us who we are sinners in need of a Savior so that the only thing we depend on is Jesus and His Word for salvation. By Faith are you saved through grace and not of yourselves it is a gift of God (Eph 2:8). Without God's Law we have no knowledge of SIN. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost.

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Did you study 2Cor 3:7-11 where Paul tells us that the 10 have been replaced by the Holy Spirit. The 10 were the the guide for Israel. The Holy Spirit is our guide. God gave each one of us a brain and He placed in our brains something we should be very grateful for and that is the power to know right from wrong. Being fortified with the Holy Spirit we know the hundreds of ways we can harm God and our fellow man plus ourselves. We certainly do not need two old cold stones with only nine ways to dishonor God and our fellow man. If we follow John's admonition in 1Jn3:19-24 we know for sure we are doing right.
19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth, and reassure our hearts before him 20 whenever our hearts condemn us; for God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and we receive from him whatever we ask, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 All who keep his commandments abide in him, and he in them. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit which he has given us. That is the code that I live by and it is my most favorite verse in scripture. It is all about love my friend. We will do no wrong if we live by those verses. John doesn't tell us to keep days, eat only certain foods and don''t forget to turn in your tithe for fear you will not get your eternal inheritance. All that stuff comes from your prophet Ellen White.

You need to read all of Galatians 3 if you want to know the real truth. Over and over he tells us we are not under the law and he didn't mean just part of the law.

Rom 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.

Matt 9:12-13
They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

You cannot know the Gospel of Jesus without God's Law (10 commandments) because it is God's Law that gives us a knowledge of sin and brings us to Jesus.

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I truly hope and pray that you will consider my response to you. Your highly 10 acclaimed commandments were just the start of all the harm we can do to our fellow man. As I indicated the 10 don't even include the greatest command.

It is too bad you did not get the chance to read my bible study of Col 2:14-17 and Gen 2:1-3 above. I think you would get a blessing from it

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How could I receive a blessing from something totally wrong. You have taken Paul's plain writings and twisted them to mean something altogether different from what he wrote just to justify the observance of the Sabbath which is not an issue for Christians. Jesus is our rest. Sabbath was given to only one nation on this Earth. There is no record of any other nation or people ever observing it. It all started after the Red Sea. How many days did it take for the Israelites to get to the Red Sea. God didn't stop them and tell them they had to rest on one of those days. Sabbath was never a requirement until after they were safe on the other side of the sea.

Hi Bob,

Thanks very much for your post. Some comments below for consideration. I have left sections in red that you commented on for context and easy discussion. I am just wondering however why you have only commented on certain sections of my post and left others out but that is fine.

Bob S said:

Hi Bob,
So nice to meet you here. I probably have not caught up on every post here. As for me just a few things you may have a misunderstanding about. When I shared my bible study from God's Word above. It was not any churches or other persons bible study. It is my own personal time with Jesus studying His Word for myself. I do not follow any church, man or women to learn God's Word. I ask Jesus and then I study God's Word for myself. It is too bad you did not take the time to read the bible study I shared above in post 325 above.

I need to clarify that I read your entire post before engaging my return post.

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I was just wondering if you took the time to red my post why you have not responded to my post in 325 above. I would love for you to go through that post and for you to show me why you think the post is wrong rather than just saying it is wrong. This only leads me to ask the question who should I believe you or God? Post 325 is God's Word not mine and it is line upon line following the theme of Col 2 and Gen 2:1-3 which is the OP. We must believe God's Word over the teachings of man. If we do not then we are an "Unbeliever" and unbelievers have no place in God's Kingdom.

Bob S said:

I do not have any problem with 2Cor 3:7-11. These scriptures are in harmony with what I believe. They are referring to the New Covenant.

Hold on there my friend, I have heard many excuses from Messianics and SDAs concerning those verses, but I have never heard your theory. I need some clarification to understand how you would come t your conclusion. You didn't really expect me to roll over and agree did you? Those verses are referring to the 10 commandments being temporary laws given only to the nation of Israel and ended with the demise of Israel. Deut 5:2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

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It seems as though you have left out the two paragraphs that go with my comment above explaining why I do not have any problems with 2Cor 3:7-11. Maybe you did this by accident or were tired. I will post them in here again so you can understand why I do not have a problem with the verses (included here below) They are referring to the New Covenant. God's 10 commandments have the same role today that they had in the Old Covenant. They are the ministration of death because their role was only to point out sin and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). They were never meant to be a cure for sin. In the Old Covenant the laws of Moses taught the plan of salvation and were the cure for sin through burnt offerings and animal sacrifices all the Levitical and ceremonial laws and Feast days.

In the New Covenant God's Law (10 commandments) still gives us a knowledge of what sin is and still points out sin and the wages of sin and it is still has the same purpose as what it was in the Old Covenant to point out sin and the wages of sin (death). The laws of Moses have been nailed to the cross because they were all pointing to Jesus and are no longer needed. The New Covenant is a much better covenant because God's Law shows us that all our righteousness is as filthy rags and that all we can do without Jesus is sin and we are all guilty before God. (Rom 3:19-20; 1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23) God's Law is our school master that brings us to the Cross so we can see Jesus (Gal 3:24). God's Law shows us who we are sinners in need of a Savior so that the only thing we depend on is Jesus and His Word for salvation. By Faith are you saved through grace and not of yourselves it is a gift of God (Eph 2:8). Without God's Law we have no knowledge of SIN. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost.

Bob S said:

God's 10 commandments have the same role today that they had in the Old Covenant.
Not according to Gal 3:19 and 2Cor3:7-11

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Absolutely they do according to Gal 3:19-25. This is talking about the role of God's Law as our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by Faith v24. You may wish to re-read the section again in context to the whole chapter. 2Cor3:7-11 as mentioned earlier is talking about the New Covenant and the role of the Law of God. It is the ministration of death because their role was only to point out sin and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). So as you can see God's Law (10 commandments) do indeed have the same role in the New Covenant as they had in the Old. There role was to point out sin they were never a cure for sin. They are the schoolmaster to bring us to Jesus.

Bob S said:

They were never meant to be a cure for sin. In the Old Covenant the laws of Moses taught the plan of salvation and were the cure for sin through burnt offerings and animal sacrifices all the Levitical and ceremonial laws and Feast days.
The plan of salvation was known by Moses and it was not part of Torah. Mses wrote how Abraham was saved and of course it was not because he kept any laws. He was saved the same way Christians are saved, He believed. The law had nothing to say about salvation. The law did have a temporary fix for every Israelite when they sinned, but it was never about salvation. If I am wrong I challenge you to come up with scripture that proves me wrong. Just remember one thing, I, too, study the Holy Writ. I took others word for too many years.

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This is where I will have to disagree with you I guess and I will tell you why. Your problem here is in your interpretation of what you think the Torah is. I posted on this in another post so maybe you did not get to that post yet. Here is the meaning of “Torah” (Hebrew) or “Pentateuch” (Greek); the Book of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy). The Torah is all first 5 books of the Bible. So yes the plan of salvation is written in the Torah. Post 332 above goes through this in a little more detail so don't need to talk about this here.

Bob S said:

In the New Covenant God's Law (10 commandments) still gives us a knowledge of what sin is and still points out sin and the wages of sin and it is still has the same purpose as what it was in the Old Covenant to point out sin and the wages of sin (death)
Question, would you go to a doctor that only had a 101 course in medicine? The 10 commandments were like a 101 course. I have heard from well intentioned folks like you parroting accolades about the 10 commandments being the eternal standard of morality because God used His finger to write them on stone. I do not diminish God in any way, but the ten commandments did not even contain the law of love, the greatest commandment. I could go on and on about all the things we can and are being done to hurt our fellow man that were not mentioned in the 10. They were just the tip of the iceberg concerning morality. Think about it. Please do not come back that the 10 were about love. That too has been parroted down through the ages and is not fortified by any scripture. If they had been about love they would not have been written the way they were.

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It is interesting when you study God's word everything in the New Testament come from the Old Testament scriptures. Did you know what the two great commandments that we are to follow in the New Covenant are? You would be correct in saying like Jesus did (Matt 22:37-40); 1. Love God with all your heart... 2. Love your neighbor ... Jesus says on these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets. Did you know that Jesus was quoting from the Old Testament? Go and look it up for yourself (Deut 6:4; 11:13; 11:22; Lev 19:34). You are correct it is indeed all about love because love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. God's wants to write His Law of love in our hearts and this is the New Covenant (Rom 8:1-4; Heb 8:10-12)

Bob S said:

The laws of Moses have been nailed to the cross because they were all pointing to Jesus and are no longer needed. The New Covenant is a much better covenant because God's Law shows us that all our righteousness is as filthy rags and that all we can do without Jesus is sin and we are all guilty before God. (Rom 3:19-20; 1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23)
Hold on there partner. It appears that you have taken the liberty to split God's laws to Israel into two parts. The book of the law contains the 10 commandments. The stones are gone and now you tell us the book is gone too. Jesus in Matt 5 didn't tell us that He only fulfilled part of the law. Not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law until all is fulfilled. All the law would be fulfilled when the time came. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

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There is no liberty taken my friend. The New Covenant is to spiritual Israel and that is everyone professing Jesus today (see Heb 8:10-12; Rom 2:28-29; Rom 1:16; Gal 3:28-29; Col 3:11; Rom 10:11-13; Rom 2:12)

LESSONS FROM MATT 5: AND THE NEW COVENANT

16, Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

17, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18, For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matt 5:17-18)

19, Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20, For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21, You have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22, But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
27, Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28,But I say unto you, that whosoever looks on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The Law of God (10 commandments) is the work of God (Ex 32:16) whatsoever God does is forever nothing can be added to it or taken away (Ecc 3:14). God's Law is perfect converting the soul (Ps 19:7). It is the very foundation of the Old and New Covenants (Ex 20:1:17, Heb 8:10-12). God's Law was spoken by God himself to His people (Ex 20:1-22). Jesus says Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away (Matt 25:35). Gods Law is still in force today (Ps 111:7-8, Rev 12:17, 14:12, 22:14, 1John 3:5-8, 1John 2:3-4 etc.). The Law of God reveals sin to us so we can see ourselves as we truly are sinners in need of a Saviour (Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4). It is the great standard of the judgement (Ecc 12:13-14, James 2:10-12, 1John 3:4, Acts 17:31). God's Law is our teacher revealing sin and the character of God and brings us to Christ at the foot of the cross that we might be saved by faith by Him who loves us and washed us in His own blood (Gal 3:24; Rev 1:5). God writes His Law in our hearts so that we become like him and we follow him because we love him (Heb 8:10-12) LOVE is the fulfilling (doing) of God's Law (Rom 13:10). This is why Jesus says to those that love him If you love me keep my commandments (John 14:15).

HEB 8: (new covenant)

10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11, And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12, for I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

God Fulfilling His Law (10 commandments) IN US through Faith?

The fulfilling of the God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal mind = sin) but after the Spirit (new mind with God's Law written on the heart) (Rom 8:1). That the righteousness of the Law might be fulfilled IN US who walk not after the flesh (carnal mind = sin) but after the spirit (Rom 8:4; 6). Salvation is God fulfilling his Law in us saving us from sin. Finally the result of God's salvation can be seen as " Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus (Rev 14:12). God's people with the character of Jesus saved by faith through love. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (John 8:34-36)

If you are partaking of the New Covenant and you have been born again and are walking in the Spirit. You will not steal right and murder? Great let’s look at what you have just said. These are part of God’s Law right (the 10 commandments). You have just agreed that if you are following God under the New Covenant then you will not murder and steal. So let’s look at all of God’s Law applying the same thinking (Ex 20:1-17).

This indeed is the new covenant experience spoken of in Jer 31:31-34; Eze 36:26-27; Heb 8:10-12; 10:16-17.

“33 I will put my law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. No more shall every man teach his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” This is the law of love to God and to our neighbour.

So now under the new covenant when God changes our heart; we will love God and our neighbour.

if we love God we will not steal
if we love God we will not murder
if we love God we will not commit adultery
if we love God we will not lie
if we love God we will honour our parents
if we love God we will not covet
if we love God we will have no other gods except our God who loves us
if we love God we will not make unto any idols
if we love God we will not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
if we love God we will Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy as he asked us to!

God’s Law has always been central to both the Old and the New Covenant and also the Judgement to come. It is only by the operation of God as we have Faith in His Word that God changes our hearts so that we can love him and love our neighbor that we can walk in his ways. This is why Jesus says its only if you love him that we can keep his commandments (John 14:15)

Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Love is the fulfilling of the God’s Law. I love Jesus and want to follow Him how about you? I am looking forward to you commenting on my post in my post in 325 above
if you feel you have a problem with it show me? If you cannot could it be because you are holding on to man made traditions over the Word of God in order to justify keeping the tradition of Sunday Worship over the Word of God? My prayer is that you may consider God's Word (please see Matt 15:3-9)

In Christ

LGW

BobRyan said:

Indeed - that law defines what sin IS - as we already saw in Romans 3:19-20 and again in Romans 7.



total nonsense.

Even Romans 1 rejects that idea telling us that godless no-Bible pagans are aware of sin.

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You forgot about Pharaoh. Genesis 12:12-20

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But in regard to this --

There is no possibility at all of pitting the Holy Spirit against scripture ... since 2 Peter 1:20-21 says it is the Holy Spirit that is the author of scripture.

And we both know it.

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Why is it that you pretend Paul is wrong? Are not his writings Scripture? You just referenced Peter saying they're at least on the same level as Scripture.

"SIN IS transgression against the LAW" 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT.

you said ..


I didn't think that was the hard part. what is "not to get"???

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What is hard to get is your implied meaning that sin is only against the law when the law was given because of it (Galatians 3:19).

The "letters" in the Bible are used to compose "words" - the Bible is the "Word of God" because it is authored by the Holy Spirit - who is the third person of the Godhead.

Is this cause you confusion? Why keep trying suppose division between the Holy Spirit and the Bible?

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Do you do this very thing by refusing to accept anything found in Scripture you don't want to hear?

I don't see the point of it.

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To bad.

God "spoke" the Ten Commandments at Sinai and then WROTE the Ten on stone.

You're making a big difference between the time God spoke it - vs wrote it as if writing it puts it at war against His spoken word.

Seems a bit odd.

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Accusatory filler.

"the law of the Spirit" before the written Word of God at Sinai - "as if" the two are not in agreement?

Or was it your intent to say that the Law as known to Abraham in Genesis 26:5 - is in perfect agreement with the written Word of God??

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Trying to counter God's word denying Deuteronomy 5:3.

You offer division between God and His Law -- where there is none.

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No she doesn't. Nice try to put what you do on another. You'd say that is a false accusation. This statement is about her words, not you or your words.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

I prefer the Word of God when it comes to doctrine.

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But you're not in compliance with Exodus 20:8-11. By you own quote you condemn yourself as an unrepentant willful sinner.

LoveGodsWord said:

Hi Bob,
It seems as though you have left out the two paragraphs that go with my comment above explaining why I do not have any problems with 2Cor 3:7-11. Maybe you did this by accident or were tired. I will post them in here again so you can understand why I do not have a problem with the verses (included here below) They are referring to the New Covenant. God's 10 commandments have the same role today that they had in the Old Covenant. They are the ministration of death because their role was only to point out sin and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). They were never meant to be a cure for sin. In the Old Covenant the laws of Moses taught the plan of salvation and were the cure for sin through burnt offerings and animal sacrifices all the Levitical and ceremonial laws and Feast days.

In the New Covenant God's Law (10 commandments) still gives us a knowledge of what sin is and still points out sin and the wages of sin and it is still has the same purpose as what it was in the Old Covenant to point out sin and the wages of sin (death). The laws of Moses have been nailed to the cross because they were all pointing to Jesus and are no longer needed. The New Covenant is a much better covenant because God's Law shows us that all our righteousness is as filthy rags and that all we can do without Jesus is sin and we are all guilty before God. (Rom 3:19-20; 1 John 3:4; Rom 6:23) God's Law is our school master that brings us to the Cross so we can see Jesus (Gal 3:24). God's Law shows us who we are sinners in need of a Savior so that the only thing we depend on is Jesus and His Word for salvation. By Faith are you saved through grace and not of yourselves it is a gift of God (Eph 2:8). Without God's Law we have no knowledge of SIN. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a Savior. If we have no need of a Savior then we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost.

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Hi LGW, I asked you to explain how you have come to the conclusion as to why you believe 2Cor:37-11 is referring to the new covenant. Please give me a straight forward answer that I can understand.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Before I can go any further in our discussion I need answers to all the past tense "was", the word "transitory" and "no Glory now". These words do not indicate that the 10 are part of the new covenant. They indicate just the opposite. Knowing the real truth about all that Paul wrote about not being under the law has to be brought out in the open before we can conclude that your theory is correct. If and when you prove to me Paul is not referring to the 10 being temporary laws then I will gladly delve into your post on Col 2.

Absolutely they do according to Gal 3:19-25. This is talking about the role of God's Law as our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ that we might be justified by Faith v24. You may wish to re-read the section again in context to the whole chapter. 2Cor3:7-11 as mentioned earlier is talking about the New Covenant and the role of the Law of God. It is the ministration of death because their role was only to point out sin and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). So as you can see God's Law (10 commandments) do indeed have the same role in the New Covenant as they had in the Old. There role was to point out sin they were never a cure for sin. They are the schoolmaster to bring us to Jesus.

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The 10cs pointed out some sins for the nation of Israel and them alone. God didn't give those commands to any other nation. The scope of sin is much wider that the 10cs gave. Like I said the 10cs didn't even contain the law of love, the greatest command. The 10 didn't name blasphemy as a sin, how about pride, sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. Gal5. Why didn't Paul say the 10 commandments, God's complete moral law as SDAs describe them, instead of using other sins to describe his point?

As far as finding the plan of eternal salvation in the old covenant is concerned, I will have to say that if it is there it is hidden so that I have not seen it. You tell us in #8 of the #332 post that the Sanctuary service provides us with the plan of salvation, but you didn't go into any detail as how. All of this exercise you are presenting is this just to prove that we must observe the Sabbath. God gave Israel the Sabbath exclusively. He didn't ever ask any other nation to observe any day. It was not given for salvational reasons, it was given for Israel to remember their flight out of Egypt and creation. It was not an issue of morality. It was a ritual (ceremonial) law just like all the other special days given to Israel only. Morality laws are forever. Ritual laws are for as long as the covenant where they are found exists. The old covenant where the ritual laws are found does not exist, it is history. I pray this helps. I know where you get the bases for your posts and I also know that she was a false prophet. I have taken the time to study her writings and they come up short of being authentic.

Hi Bob,

So nice to see you again. I hope your day is a great one in the Lord

Bob S said:

Hi LGW, I asked you to explain how you have come to the conclusion as to why you believe 2Cor:37-11 is referring to the new covenant. 2.

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Bob, most of post 335 above is explaining how I have come to the understanding that 2Cor 3:7-11 is referring to the New Covenant but I am happy to discuss it further if you like? The New Covenant promise from God has it's origin from the Old Testament scriptures quoted in the New (see, Eze 36:26-27; Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10-12; Heb 10:16-17).

Eze 36:26-27,
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This is what is being referenced in 2Cor 3:3 which is the context of 2Cor 3:7-11

2Co 3:3,
For as much as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Further context is outlined in v6 the word "new testament" in the Greek is διαθήκη; diathēkē ; dee-ath-ay'-kay From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament. So the context you can see the chapter is talking about the "New Covenant"

2Co 3:6,
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament <COVENANT>; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.

The Old Testament dispensation was the ministration of death, but the New Testament of life. The law made known sin, and the wrath and curse of God just like it does in the New Testament (Rom 6:23; Rom 3:20; 1John 3:4); it showed us a God above us, and a God against us; but the gospel makes known grace, and Emmanuel, God with us. Therein the righteousness of God by faith is revealed; and this shows us that the just shall live by his faith; this makes known the grace and mercy of God through Jesus Christ, for obtaining the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. The gospel so much exceeds the law in glory, that it eclipses the glory of the legal dispensation. But even the New Testament will be a killing letter, if shown as a mere system or form, and without dependence on God Word and the Holy Spirit, to give it a quickening power.

So if you take the above context of the chapter and combine it with the post 335 you have a pretty good understanding of how 2Cor 3:7-11 is referring to the "New Covenant" Hope this is helpful.

Bob S said:

The 10cs pointed out some sins for the nation of Israel and them alone. God didn't give those commands to any other nation.

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Bob, "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. It has its origin from Gen 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel. This is God's people and today and represents anyone that is following Jesus. If we are a christian today we are part of God's spiritual Israel according to God's Word. The same New Covenant is written for God's people today who are now spiritual Israel. Scripture support;

Gal 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Col 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Rom 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Jer 31:33-4,
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:10-12,
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb 10:14-17,
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, this is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

So you can see if the New Covenant is for us (Spiritual Israel) so is God's Law (10 commandments) as it is the foundation of all the covenants and also the Judgement to come.

Bob S said:

As far as finding the plan of eternal salvation in the old covenant is concerned, I will have to say that if it is there it is hidden so that I have not seen it. You tell us in #8 of the #332 post that the Sanctuary service provides us with the plan of salvation, but you didn't go into any detail as how.

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Please forgive me Bob as I assumed you already know that the laws of Moses were generally prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus. This is why they are called Shadows. They were to teach the Children of Israel under the Old Covenant about God's Plan of salvation and the role of Jesus as our Saviour. The ceremonial laws of Moses through the animal sacrifices, burnt offerings, food and drink offerings and annual feast days and Holy days where all prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus as the true Saviour from sin, our great High Priest and the true heavenly Sanctuary (see 2 Cor 5:1-4; John 1:29;36; 1Cor 5:7; Heb 2:17; 5:5;10; 6:20; 7:26; 8:2-5; 9:1-28;13:10-13 etc) . Hope this is helpful the laws of Moses are the laws that were fulfilled (Shadows) at the death of Jesus.

Bob S said:

It was not an issue of morality. It was a ritual (ceremonial) law just like all the other special days given to Israel only. Morality laws are forever. Ritual laws are for as long as the covenant where they are found exists. The old covenant where the ritual laws are found does not exist, it is history. I pray this helps. I know where you get the bases for your posts and I also know that she was a false prophet. I have taken the time to study her writings and they come up short of being authentic.

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What is a "moral law"? I am not sure what dictionary you wish you use but I think most of them from what I saw say the same thing. "moral "ˈmɒr(ə)l/ 1. adjective: moral concerned with the principles of right and wrong behavior; to do with right and wrong. 2. noun: moral standards of behaviour; principles of right and wrong. So the "Moral Law" is a law of "right and wrong behavior". This is what God's Law (10 commandments) is. It is God's Law of right and wrong behavior. God says to His people this is His Law of right and wrong behavior.

The 4th commandment is listed in God's Law as one of God's commandments that are part of His Law that describes right and wrong behavior for God's people. It is right behavior for God's people because the God of creation the creator of all things in heaven and earth rested on the 7th Day and made this Day a Holy day (Gen 2:1-3). It was made a Holy day for mankind (Mark 2:27). It is a Holy day that God has made for his people and it is a sign that we worship the true God and creator of all things (Eze 20:20). Jesus is the creator of all things in heaven and earth. It was Jesus that made the Sabbath day a Holy day at the end of the finished work of the creation week. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath day and has commanded us to keep this day Holy as a memorial of creation and that we as his people worship the true creator.

Is the Sabbath commandment a Shadow of things to come?

This has been clearly answered in post 325 above. The 4th commandment in God's Law (10 commandments) has never been a Shadow. Why? Because it was part of the FINISHED work of creation and part of the creation week in Gen 2. It was made BEFORE the fall of mankind so not part of the ceremonial laws of Moses.

GEN 2
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Scripture context points:
* God finished all the work of creation on the 7th Day of the week (v1)
* God ended His Work on the 7th Day of the creation week and rested from all His work of creation, it was completed no more work required (v2)
* God blessed the 7th Day and set it apart as a holy day as a memorial of creation

Critical questions and answers:

When was God’s 7th Day Sabbath made, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind?
It was made BEFORE the fall of mankind at the end of the creation week on the 7th Day and was the result of a FINISHED work!

Was God’s work of creation a FINISHED WORK or an UNFUNISHED WORK?
The 7th Day Sabbath was the result of the FINISHED AND COMPLETED WORK of creation!

When were God’s Laws and the laws of Moses given, before the fall of mankind or after the fall of mankind? Obviously AFTER the fall of mankind (Ex 20:1-17, Lev 23:1-44, etc) they were part of God’s plan of salvation.

So in summary the 7th Day Sabbath is a memorial of the FINISHED work of creation and if it is a FINISHED work and a memorial of God’s creation that was given BEFORE the FALL of mankind before SIN had entered the world and before the plan of salvation was given to FALLEN man. If it was a part of a FINISHED work then it cannot be a Shadow of salvation because a Shadow was part of an UNFINISHED work given in the laws of Moses and was given AFTER the fall of mankind where the Sabbath was made before the fall.

My bible study with Jesus is my own study and not the study of any church, man or woman. I study God's Word for myself only asking Jesus to be my teacher (John 14:26; 16:13; 7:17; Heb 8:10-12). I only share God's Word. I believe God's Word how about you? I pray that this may be helpful for you and may lead you to Jesus like the faithful Bereans to see if these things be so.

God bless you

LoveGodsWord said:

Hi Bob,

So nice to see you again. I hope your day is a great one in the Lord

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Thank you my friend, every day is a great day and every day is a great day to rest in our Lord Jesus.

To go through each point of your post is a tedious task. I have chosen to discuss the points I either do not understand or have differences with your answers.

I do not understand why you have not addressed the verses in 2Cor that tell us that the 10 commandments were temporary commands and those verses are written in past tense. Yes, the chapter is about the new covenant, but the verses I need for you to discuss are the ones that are telling us that followers of Jesus are not under the 10 commandments because they were a temporary guide for one nation, Israel which no longer exists. Why are you not willing to get to the point?

I believe the verses you are using to tell me that we are still under all the laws given to Israel, old covenant, are not telling the whole story. For instance you Quote Heb 8 and 10 concerning the new covenant, but you didn't tell me: 6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said: ......

Jesus is mediator of the new covenant and he is the one who wrote that He kept His Father' commands and we are to keep His commands. Since Jesus is the mediator and His command is for us to love one another as He loves us, that is what the new covenant is about. That is what is written on new covenant believers hearts. If law that brought death is written on our hearts, 613 laws of the old covenant, then You SDAs need to revamp your doctrines to include a bunch of rules.

If you are correct in that the new covenant is the same as the 613 rules of the old one then how could you tell me in one of your posts that the law of Moses was fulfilled at the Cross. If you believe the old covenant was just the 10 commandments then you need to be advised that it really is the book of the law which contained the 10 commandments. Without the book of the law the ten could not have had any teeth as how to deal with the commands.

I know you believe you have an air tight theory concerning Col 2, but you have to come to grips with the facts I have presented. So far you have glossed over what I present and I will not take the time to evaluate your Col2 theory until I get some straight answers from the straight forward texts I have presented.

Now to address the thought you presented that we Christians are part of Israel is pure nonsense. You quoted the following:
Gal 3:28-29,
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Col 3:11,
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Rom 10:11-13,
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rom 2:28-29,
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So you can see if the New Covenant is for us (Spiritual Israel) so is God's Law (10 commandments) as it is the foundation of all the covenants and also the Judgement to come.

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Some of the verses you quoted tell us we are all the same. If there is no Jew in Christ then why would you try to make gentiles Jews. That is completely not Biblical. Gentiles are grafted into Jesus not some group of people that failed to obey God.

The laws you refer to as "God's laws" were for one nation and that was Israel. We read in Ex 19:5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

God didn't say by keeping those laws He would save them eternally, He said He would make them a great nation. The old covenant was not about salvation, The new covenant is all about salvation. Keeping old covenant ritual laws have no bearing on our salvation. the ritual Sabbath of Israel has no bearing on our salvation. To try to prove that it has with your theory is not Biblical.