Hell's Population Clock

Gabriel Anton

Exitus Acta Probat Acta Non Verba Deus Vult 11:18
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#133 - Bookmark.

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Breeches of the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God are punishable by curses.

Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.

"cursed is" is grammatically present tense, indicating that curses for breeching the covenant are immediate-- no delay and no waiting period.

One thing that must be emphasized is that curses for breeching the covenant are irrevocable; so it's very important to come to grips with them; and the sooner the better.

Matt 5:18 . . For assuredly, I say to you: till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle will by any means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 39 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,368,470 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

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ClementofA

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Justice is sometimes depicted as a set of scales. That's an important legal principle.

Deut 19:21. . Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

Ex 21:23-25 . .You are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

The terrorists who flew airliners into the World Trade Center caused the unjustified deaths of more than two thousand people. In order for the scales of justice to balance, those men would have to put two thousand of their own lives on the scales. Well; they each had only one life; so according to Deut 19:21 and Ex 21:23-25 each of those men is indebted to justice a minimum of 1,999 lives.

Bottom line: In order to balance the scales of justice for serial sinners, God requires a mode of punishment that's quite a bit more severe than simply stoning.


The fact is, all sinners are "serial sinners". Sinners have the nature of sinning. That's what they do.

Sins and sinners don't get any worse than the kind mentioned in Heb.10:28-29. It speaks of those who blaspheme the Spirit. Their future punishment is compared in Hebrews 10:28-29 to those who were stoned to death under the law. Clearly being stoned to death is nothing like endless torments or annihilation. Therefore those are false teachings.

The Spirit blasphemers (Heb.10:28-29) are even worse than a "serial sinner" such as Saul of Tarsus who was persecuting Spirit filled Christians, even unto death.

Saul may have had it in his heart to murder all Christians. Just because he may not have had the opportunity to murder thousands of Christians would not make him any less guilty than those who did kill thousands (as in, e.g., your World Trade Center example). There are many people in the world who would kill many more than a mere two thousand if given the power & opportunity.

Therefore the WTC argument is flawed. For not only are they assumptions projected into the afterlife regarding laws that never had any such thing in mind, they are also assumptions based on the outer appearances of the OT judicial civil law of Israel, like man's national governmental laws, not on how God judges men, as revealed especially in the New Testament, according to their hearts.

The worst sinners are worthy of recieving what is comparable to stoning (Heb.10:28-29). Others deserve lesser punishments, if any, for their sins in this brief life of a few days, years or decades.

Even then, all of God's punishments are corrective, not merely pointlessly or sadistically meting out justice for justice's sake, but for the good of all, including the offender.

10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or longlasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed the wicked would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death. Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

LK.18:9 To some who trusted in their own righteousness and viewed others with contempt, He also told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.…

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
 
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POSIT: The Old Testament's Yhvh abhors human sacrifices. Therefore, He couldn't possibly approve of the New Testament's cross. For example: Jer 32:33-35 and Deut 12:31.

RESPONSE: Though Yhvh normally frowns upon sacrificing one's underage children-- e.g. Lev 18:21, Lev 20:2-5, Deut 12:31, Deut 18:10, cf. 2Kgs 16:3, 2Kgs 17:31, 2Kgs 23:10, 2Kgs 21:6, Ps 106:34, Ezk 20:31, Ezk 23:37, Jer 7:31, Jer 19:4, Jer 32:35 --to my knowledge He's never frowned upon sacrificing a consenting adult.

The primary reason adult human sacrifices are illegal under the terms and conditions of the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God is simply because they aren't specified; and it's illegal to amend the covenant to include them. (Deut 4:2, Deut 5:29-30)

But Christ wasn't sacrificed as an old covenant atonement; rather, the new.

1Cor 11:25-26 . . He took the cup after supper, saying: This cup is the new covenant in my blood

The Old Testament predicted human sacrifice; with Yhvh's full approval no less.

Isa 53:6 . . Yhvh has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isa 53:10 . . It was Yhvh's will to crush him, and cause him to suffer. Yhvh makes his life a guilt offering

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POSIT: The Bible says that God has never actually desired sacrifices and offerings. For example:

"For I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. But this is what I commanded them, saying: Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you will be My people; and you will walk in all the way which I command you, that it may be well with you." (Jer 7:22-23)

"In sacrifice and offering you have not delighted, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required." (Psalm 40:6)

"For you do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it; you do not delight in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart-- these, O God, you will not despise." (Ps 51:16-17)

"For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings." (Hos 6:6)

RESPONSE: The posit's interpretation of those passages effectively invalidates the entire God-given book of Leviticus; and also makes Christ look pretty stupid because it was his belief that not one jot nor one tittle of Israel's covenanted law would pass away until all is fulfilled. (Matt 5:17-19)

The point is: God prefers that people not sin; but rather, conduct themselves in a manner that needs no atonement. In other words: atonements are a contingency rather than the ideal; viz: an ambulance sent to a train wreck. Well; it's preferred that trains remain on their rails rather than going off.

As for Hos 6:6, the mercy that God desires is not His extended to you, but yours extended to your fellow man; viz: rituals are unacceptable substitutes for things like kindness, charity, lenience, sympathy, courtesy and/or compassion.

Ps 51:16-17 requires an explanation because it's a special case. David penned it as a result of his tryst with Bathsheba and his engineering of the death of her husband Uriah. God allows no atonements for those two sins: both are unforgivable death offenses under the terms and conditions of the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God..

Ex 21:13-14 . . If a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, you shall take him away from my very altar and put him to death.

Num 35:31 . . Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who deserves to die. He must surely be put to death.

Lev 20:10 . . If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-- with the wife of his neighbor --both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Deut 22:22 . . If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die-- both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman --so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

In other words: If the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God specified sacrifices for premeditated murder and adultery; David would have offered them.

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WebersHome

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Q: Can you cite an Old Testament example where God approved sacrificing a consenting adult?

A: Abraham lived a pretty good number of years before Israel's covenanted law was instituted. Therefore, he wasn't obligated to comply with it because biblical law doesn't have ex post facto jurisdiction; viz: it isn't retroactive. (Deut 5:2-3, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17)

So then, Abraham was in a position to offer a human sacrifice without incurring guilt; which he did.

Gen 22:1-2 . . Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him: Abraham! And he said: Here I am. And He said: Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you.

Did Abraham slay Isaac? No, but did Abraham offer Isaac? Yes.

Gen 22:9 . .Then they came to the place of which God had told him. And Abraham built an altar there and placed the wood in order; and he bound Isaac his son and laid him on the altar, upon the wood.

You see, once a gift dedicated to God is placed on an altar, it's a done deal-- whether the offering is dead or alive makes no difference. In point of fact, the letter to Hebrews credits Abraham with offering his son in obedience to God's command.

Heb 11:17 . . By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son

So then, the next question is: was Isaac a consenting adult?

Well; according to Gen 22:6-7, Isaac was old enough to shoulder a load of wood. Plus, he was mature enough to ask an intelligent question based on experience and observation; so he wasn't a little kid in this incident.

And if the narrative is a tight chronology, then the very next thing that happened was Sarah's passing. Her age is given as 127 (Gen 23:1-2). Well, Isaac was born when Sarah was 90 (Gen 17:17). That would make Isaac 37 when he and his dad went up on the mountain together.

I'm pretty sure that Isaac could have easily overpowered his dad and escaped death had he chosen to; but more importantly; had Isaac not consented, the whole affair would have turned into a ritual murder.

Another Old Testament example of a God-approved human sacrifice is located in the 53rd chapter of Isaiah.

POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 42 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,550,660 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

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WebersHome

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Ex 20:5 . . I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me.

Q: How is that fair? holding children responsible for what their parents do?

A: Ex 20:5-- along with Ex 34:7, Num 14:18, and Deut 5:9 --is often construed to mean that children are held responsible for their parents' sins; but that isn't it. What we're looking at here is collateral damage. It is apparently God's prerogative to get back at people by going after their posterity and/or the people they govern.

There's a horrific example of collateral damage located at Num 16:25-34. Another is the Flood. No doubt quite a few underage children drowned in that event due to their parents' wickedness. The same happened to the children in Sodom and Gomorrah. Ham's punishment for humiliating Noah was a curse upon his son Canaan. And during Moses' face-off with Pharaoh, God moved against the man's firstborn son along with all those of his subjects.

There are times when God chooses to judge people by going after not only themselves; but also the things that pertain to them; including, but not limited to, their progeny. I don't quite understand the logic of that kind of justice; but then again: I don't try; I just go along with it; primarily because it's futile to find fault with God.

Q: Come on now. Does anybody really "hate" God?

A: As a rule; God doesn't measure one's love and/or hatred for Himself in accordance with their feelings, but in accordance to their loyalty and/or disloyalty. In other words: even if somebody doesn't particularly like God as a person; He can deal with that just so long as they do as He says and give Him the respect that His position deserves.

In the Army we called that Military Courtesy. In other words; I saluted officers, got out of their way, spoke to them in a respectful tone of voice, and did what they said not because they were especially likeable as persons, but because they were the ones in command. The same principle applies to Christ.

John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.

John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.


NOTE: There are a number of Christians at large who honestly believe that church attendance is an adequate substitute for compliance with God's wishes. Well; it's not.

1Sam 15:22-23 . . Has Yhvh as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of Yhvh? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry.

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WebersHome

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Q: Doesn't Acts 2:24-33 teach that Christ went to hell at his death?

A: According to Acts 2:24-32 he actually went to haides (a.k.a. hades) which is an ambiguous koiné Greek word for the netherworld-- an afterlife sphere where everybody goes when they pass on; both the good and the bad and the young and the old. Although haides can imply fiery suffering in the afterlife (e.g. Luke 16:23) the specific koiné word for fiery punishment is geena (gheh'-en-nah) for example Matt 5:22, Matt 5:29-30, Matt 23:15, Matt 23:33, and Luke 12:5

The actual netherworld location to which Christ departed was a pleasant situation rather than an incinerator.

Luke 23:39-43 . . One of the criminals hanging beside him scoffed: So you're the Messiah, are you? Prove it by saving yourself-- and us, too, while you're at it! But the other criminal protested: Aren't you afraid of God? Not even when you're dying? We deserve to die for our evil deeds, but this man hasn't done anything wrong. Then he said: Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied: I assure you; today you will be with me in paradise.

The koiné Greek word for "paradise" is paradeisos (par-ad'-i-sos) which means: a park; defined by Webster's as: 1) a tract of land that often includes lawns, woodland, and pasture attached to a country house and is used as a game preserve and for recreation, and/or 2) a piece of ground in or near a city or town kept for ornament and recreation, and/or 3) an area maintained in its natural state as a public property.

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WebersHome

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As if hell isn't bad enough, people are in it as their selves; viz: they are never going to be free from their own personalities-- their phobias, their hang-ups, their inner conflicts, their memories, their anger, their hostility, their rivalries, their prejudice, their bias, their angst, their gender issues, their resentments, their regrets, their disappointments, their bitterness, their animosity, their passions, and their appetites.

Hell is even more of a hell than you might think because, having missed out on the regeneration about which Christ spoke at John 3:3-8, people take who they are right along with them down there.

Thus; suicide is not a good way to relieve depression. Depressed people and/or despondent people, take that low state of mind right along with them to the other side; and their sorrow will be even more intensified in fire when they realize that as bad as things were up here on the surface, their situation up here wasn't nearly as bad as their situation down below.

You can escape poor health via death, you can escape credit card debt, you can escape an abusive spouse, you can escape taxes, you can escape a physical handicap, you can escape pimples, you can escape a bully, you can escape despots and tyrants, you can escape a life of neither promise nor future, you can escape prison, you can escape grinding poverty, and you can escape the Mafioso; but nobody can escape themselves.

POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 45 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,732,850 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

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WebersHome

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Heb 10:26-28 . . If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

If you know the Bible, then you're aware that lies are sins. Yet you continue to lie; don't you? Every time you lie, you commit a deliberate sin because you know full well that lies are sins.

You've probably been taught that sexual fantasies are sins. Yet you continue to have them don't you? Every time you indulge in a sexual fantasy, you commit a deliberate sin because you were taught that sexual fantasies are acts of mental immorality.

If you know the Bible, then you know from Matt 12:36 that thoughtless remarks are sin, yet you continue to make thoughtless remarks.

How about traffic laws? When you exceed the speed limit, fail to come to a complete stop at stop signs, run red lights, pass illegally, and/or J-walk; you are committing deliberate sins because you know from Rom 13:1-7, and 1Pet 2:13-15 it is a sin to break traffic laws; yet you continue to break those laws anyway.

Therefore, performance-oriented Christians who believe there is no pardon of any kind available for deliberate sins; are going to hell. They have to go there because it is their belief that nobody gets off for deliberate sins.

But I am willing to bet money that none of them who believe that way really and truly worry about going to hell. I would like to ask them: Where's your panic? Where's your terror? Where's your anxiety? No, they don't believe their own beliefs; because if they did, they would feel terror, anxiety, worry, and panic; because hell is something to be feared; and it is feared by everybody who truly believes in it.

Luke 12:4-6 . . I tell you, my friends: do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: fear Him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear Him.


NOTE: I've always thought it curious that Christ didn't say that to his opponents, rather; to his disciples. (Luke 12:1)

If the beliefs of performance-oriented Christians were true-- that there is no way to be forgiven for intentional sins under either the old or the new covenant --then let me ask them another question: just what advantage (if any) does your version of Christianity have over Judaism, and what advantage would the new covenant have over the old one if neither Christianity nor Judaism offered a way to escape the guilt of intentional sins? There would be no advantage whatsoever; and the Gospel wouldn't be good news, but rather, it would be old news-- in point of fact, Christianity would be so redundant as to not even be worth the bother.

If, as some interpret Heb 10:26-28, there is no acquittal of any kind available for deliberate sin, then David, one of the holiest men in the Bible, should have gone to hell because he committed adultery and premeditated murder, knowing full well that both of those acts are sins, and knowing full well that the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God mandates the death penalty for both offenses (Ex 21:12-14, Lev 20:10) and also provides no absolution whatsoever for scofflaws. (Num 15:30-31)

Performance-oriented Christians believe in a version of Christianity that nobody can possibly live up to, not even they, because there is not a day goes by that even performance-oriented Christians themselves commit at least one act, think at least one thought, or speak at least one word, that they know in advance is wrong, yet go ahead anyway. I suspect that a fair number of them are fully aware they have no hope of success; and have given up and resigned themselves to hell and eternal suffering because it's just too difficult to qualify for the other place.

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WebersHome

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Q: What sane father would condemn His own children, the work of His creation, to eternal punishment simply because they don't agree with him?

A: According to Matt 5:9, people who quarrel with God, and/or argue and debate with Him, do not qualify to identify themselves as His own children. They're identity thieves.


FYI: While true that the God of Genesis created everybody, that does not eo ipso make everybody His children. For example: just because Eli Whitney is the father of the cotton gin, and Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak are the fathers of the Apple II computer, doesn't make those machines their progeny.

In other words: the God of Genesis is everybody's creator, yes; but He is not everybody's parent. No; by default, everybody is merely an organic creature constructed from dust to become members of Adam's family rather than God's.

It's necessary to undergo a special birth in order to get in God's family. All other claimants are frauds, and have no right whatsoever to say God is their father.

John 1:12-13 . .To all who accepted him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- children not born of natural descent, nor of human decision, nor of a husband's passion, but born of God.

Bottom line: God doesn't condemn His own children to eternal punishment; but He won't hesitate to condemn yours if they neglect to follow Christ's instructions.

John 3:3 . . I assure you: unless you are born again, you can never see the Kingdom of God.

John 3:6 . . Don't be surprised at my statement that you must be born again.

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WebersHome

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Q: Ever consider the fact that the Bible nowhere mentions that people go to heaven or hell at the moment of death?

A: I am unaware of that "fact" which in reality, is not a fact at all, but rather, simply a deficiency in someone's own personal knowledge of the Bible.

The apostle Paul was confident that at his departure, he would be with Christ.

Php 1:23 . . I desire to depart and be with Christ

To "be with Christ" is to be in heaven because according to Acts 2:32-36, Acts 7:55, Col 3:1, and 1Pet 3:22, etc; that is where Christ currently resides at his Father's right hand.

For believers such as myself, to be absent from the body; is to be present with The Lord.

2Cor 5:6-8 . .Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with The Lord.

When the rich man and the beggar Lazarus died in Luke 16:19-31, the angels carried Lazarus to Abraham's section of the netherworld.

Luke 16:22 . .The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side.

It's obvious from the text that Abraham wasn't in the fiery section of the netherworld at the time. It could be argued he wasn't in heaven at the time either; but that would certainly not be true today. If Paul expected to be with The Lord at his passing; then I have no doubt Abraham and Lazarus are now with The Lord too.

Christ promised a fellow prisoner word that they would both enter a paradise the very day of their crucifixions.

Luke 23:43 . . Jesus answered him; I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.

If Christ and his fellow prisoner went to a paradise the very day of their deaths, then can there be any doubt that the rich man went to the fiery section of the netherworld the very day of his own death, and Lazarus went to Abraham's section on the very day of his death?

Upon comparing texts, it becomes clear that nobody went to heaven prior to Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. Old Testament saints went to comfortable accommodations in the netherworld where Abraham was at the time of the events narrated in Luke 16:19-31. And the lost went to you know where; and they are still there to this very day yearning for a damp swab to soothe their parched tongues.


POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 48 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 2,915,040 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

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Q: According to Luke 23:39-43, Jesus went to paradise on the day of his death. If that's true, then why did he tell Mary Magdalene at John 20:17 that he had not yet ascended to his Father?

A: In point of fact; Ps 16:8-10, Matt 12:40 and Acts 2:25:31 all testify that when Christ died, he didn't go up, but instead, went down. However, paradise is structured.

The Pacific Crest Trail (a.k.a. PCT) traverses the north/south length of three states-- California, Oregon, and Washington. No matter which of the three sates trekkers might be located on the trail at any given moment; it's all the very same PCT.

Paradise is sort of like that. There's a section of it in the netherworld (Matt 12:40, Luke 16:19-31) another in a celestial region that Paul labeled the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4) and yet another is located with God up in very heaven itself. (Rev 2:7).

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I was once challenged by an Atheist that if I believed so strongly in the existence of a hell; then what was I doing for people down there.

Well; I had to tell the Atheist that although it isn't God's wishes that people end up suffering in hell, it is His wishes that they suffer once they're there. So that even if it were in my power to do something to make their situation a bit more tolerable and/or a bit more comfortable-- which it isn't --I wouldn't dare attempt to circumvent God's wishes; and neither would Christ.

John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of Him that sent me.

John 8:29 . . And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 10:30 . . I and my Father are unified.

This means that Christ wouldn't have protested, nor interfered, in either Noah's Flood or the fiery destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah; even though a number of infants and underage children went to their deaths in both events.

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"Hell" is never mentioned in the Bible. Sheol, Gehenna and Hades are mentioned but none are synonymous with hell. The present day Christian concept of hell derives mostly from Dante's medieval novel "The Divine Comedy".

-Hell is deduced from Scripture, it doesn't need to be specifically stated

-Hell is a doctrine of the 3rd Century, long before Dante or even the Christian state formally existed.

-Dante lived in the Late Ages, and his work was a work of poetry that mirrored his conviction against hypocrites in the world he lived in. It was never considered to have any theological significance by any church.
 
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Jonah said that he spent some of his nautical adventure in a location called sheol; which he sited at the bottoms of the mountains. (Jonah 2:1 and Jonah 2:6)

Sheol turns up again in Ps 16:10, which Peter spoke of as haides in the New Testament at Acts 2:27.

So then, by combining those passages, it's easy to conclude that sheol = haides= sheol.

Luke 16:19-31 tells of a man in sheol/haides. Well; we know from Ps 16:10 and Acts 2:25-31 that Christ spent some time in sheol/haides too. But Christ labeled his section Paradise. (Luke 23:43)

So then, I think it's safe to conclude that sheol/haides is divided into two sections: a heavenly zone and a hellish zone. Luke 16:26 says that the two zones are distinctly separated from one another.

John 20:17 says that Jesus' return to heaven was pending after his resurrection; which tells me that the paradise to which he went wasn't up, rather, it was down. Well; in my minds eye, down is somewhere in the vicinity of the core of the earth, i.e. the heart of the earth, i.e. the bottoms of the mountains just as Jonah said.

POPULATION CLOCK UPDATE: 51 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 3,097,230 new arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since June 19, 2017.

/
 
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JackRT

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Or in the original "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate" --- this is taken from Dante's Inferno. Far more than the Bible itself Dante's lurid medieval imaginings have formed the basis of the way Christians today think about hell.
 
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JoeP222w

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According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of June 19, 2017 @ 07:02 pm New York Time, the resident population in the United States was approximately 325,271,936 with a death rate of approximately one every 12 seconds; which translates to an average of 7,200 American deaths of all ages, races, and genders during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths are under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 5,234 of the current daily death rate per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage to 51%, would indicate a minimum of 2,670 American adults transferring to perdition every day: which translates to roughly 111 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think: by the time CBS completes its half hour evening news report, a bare-bones minimum of 55 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld.

Using the ratio of 2,670 condemned souls per 325,271,936 population: computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated global population of 7,398,439,461 people, would suggest something like 60,730 new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours; which translates to approximately 2,530 souls every sixty minutes on the clock.

That rate would fill the 51,800 seats of the new Yankee Stadium to capacity in roughly 20 hours and 47 minutes. In other words: if the world's daily number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this morning, then by 02:47 am tomorrow, the stadium would be full to capacity.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2% higher.

Christianity's hell never closes; no, not at all: it's open for business 24/7/365 nonstop and indifferent to global warming, Wall Street crashes, massive layoffs, outsourcing, high school shootings, terrorism, tsunamis, earthquakes, nuclear meltdowns, air, water, and soil pollution, freeway pile-ups, brown-outs, threatened species, the price of oil, student debt, GMO, trade deficits, protests, Federal debt, factory recalls, overpopulation, desertification, genocides, revolutions, civil wars, acid rain, road rage, oil spills, conscious decoupling, ISIS, LGBT marriage, Obamacare, blood diamonds, fracking, twerking, and/or President Donald Trump's wall.

If Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in an endless procession like the unbelievable millions of poultry broilers passing annually through Tyson chicken-processing plants on their way to Wendy's, McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Chic-fil-A, KFC, A&W, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and restaurants all over the USA and wherever else Tyson vends its meats. The slaughtering and the butchering never stop.

/

Which is why Christians should proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ far more boldly than we have been.

As a side note, God does not reveal to us who the elect are.
 
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God does not reveal to us who the elect are.

Rom 8:16 . .The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.

When people are not sure in their own minds whether they are one of the elect, then I must conclude that they aren't because the Spirit has yet to personally corroborate their selection.

This is a private matter between God and the individual elect, i.e. I'm not privy to the other chosen ones; I'm only privy to my own selection. In the long run, mine is the only one that really matters; at least to me anyway.

/
 
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