Justification

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 1, 2017

I never look to see what denomination a book is from that I read on whatever particular subject that's being studied and sort from there. Somehow from somewhere I picked up the notion that justification equalled suffering and it became my new pet doctrine for the longest time. Then as time went on I just couldn't support it. But it was a hard one to let go of because it made sense on so many levels. All but that it was justification. And most if not all of my doctrine has to fit into the neat little boxes of sanctification, propitiation, regeneration, etc. Justification equalling suffering ultimately didn't fit altho it is THE example set forth by Christ of a Christian life. Justification is God's climatic act manward that can only be followed by glorification.

~ justification makes right before God, a covering for sin, the sin question is settled.

Romans 3:24-25
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

There's 7 aspects of justification

1) justified by God

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Romans 8:33
Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

2) justified by blood

Romans 3:24-26
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

3) faith as the instrument

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

4) grace as the essence

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

5) justified by the Spirit

(agent of a new birth)
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

6) works as evidence of justification

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

James 2:24-25
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

7) justified in Christ

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

(Position of one crucified)

Thoughts ....

Acts2:38 · Aug 1, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
I never look to see what denomination a book is from that I read on whatever particular subject that's being studied and sort from there. Somehow from somewhere I picked up the notion that justification equalled suffering and it became my new pet doctrine for the longest time. Then as time went on I just couldn't support it. But it was a hard one to let go of because it made sense on so many levels. All but that it was justification. And most if not all of my doctrine has to fit into the neat little boxes of sanctification, propitiation, regeneration, etc. Justification equalling suffering ultimately didn't fit altho it is THE example set forth by Christ of a Christian life. Justification is God's climatic act manward that can only be followed by glorification.

~ justification makes right before God, a covering for sin, the sin question is settled.

Romans 3:24-25
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

There's 7 aspects of justification

1) justified by God

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Romans 8:33
Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

2) justified by blood

Romans 3:24-26
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

3) faith as the instrument

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1
Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have[a] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

4) grace as the essence

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

5) justified by the Spirit

(agent of a new birth)
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

6) works as evidence of justification

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

James 2:24-25
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

7) justified in Christ

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

(Position of one crucified)

Thoughts ....

I feel a little confused, sorry.

Are you arguing against "faith only" or are you stating that you have come to the realization that justification does not mean "ultimate suffering"?

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 1, 2017

Acts2:38 said:
I feel a little confused, sorry.

Are you arguing against "faith only" or are you stating that you have come to the realization that justification does not mean "ultimate suffering"?

I didn't think I was argueing at all. Just stating biblical references to justification and the narrow slot that it fits into.
If I were to argue faith only I would say that it's a product of Abraham minus Sarah, iow, faith w/o grace is not of the promise. But it is a condition of many.
Or if I were to argue ultimate suffering the ultimate suffering is Christ's but sanctification fills in what is missing and not justification.
But mainly I just set forth the scripture and am lurking to see what others can add or subtract from it.

TheSeabass · Aug 1, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
6) works as evidence of justification

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

Obedient works in doing God's will bring about justification. No one is first justified for no known reason then go about obeying God's will.

bling · Aug 1, 2017

I have taught Justification in hour long adult bible classes and not come close to covering the subject you can look over my power point and ask specific questions:

Justification, Justify and Justified

Old Testament (6)

Esther (1), Job (2), Psalm (1), Isaiah (1), Ezekiel (1)

New Testament (27)

Luke (3), Acts (1), Romans (15), 1 Cor. (1), Gal. (6), Titus (1)

Old: Ezekiel 16:52 you have furnished some justification for your sisters (Sodom). Because your sins were more vile than theirs, they appear more righteous than you.

New: Ro. 3: 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Why did Paul see the need for the Roman and Galatian Christians to be taught about “justification”?

The Old Testament never talks about anyone being “Justified”, so were heroes of the Old Testament justified?

What is included with justification?

Being justified is being “set free from every sin” (Acts 13 :39).

Being Justified means you have been raised to life (Ro. 4:25).

The “gift” brings justification. (Ro. 5:16).

“…one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people” (Ro. 5:18).

“…you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God….” (1 Cor. 6:11)

Luke 18:14 “those who humble themselves will be exalted.” ( justified before the Lord) so humility is part of it.

Justification comes through the redemption by Christ Jesus. (Ro. 3:24)

God is shown as being just and thus can justify. (Ro. 3:26)

We have been justified by his blood (Ro. 5:9)

those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (Ro.8:30)

We believe by our heart and are thus justified. (Ro.10:10)

“…having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.” (Titus 3:7)

Old Testament: Justified Individuals

Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. (Paul’s “Pisidian Antioch sermon in the synagogue”)

If you went back in time and stood before an Old Testament hero and asked them if they felt justified before God, what would you expect their answer to be?

Does saying: “I am justified before the Lord” sound like I am “deserving” of salvation?

Would being a Jew after the Law was given automatically exclude you from being justified?

Who in the Old Testament do you feel stood “justified” before the Lord and why?

Justification by Faith

The New Testament talks about being Justified by faith, but people under the law had faith also and could not be justified by the law, so describe this “faith” that justifies?

In the “Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector in the Temple” did the Pharisee have faith? (Faith in self, but was there also faith in God?)

Jesus talked about not being able to do miracles in his home town because of their lack of “faith”, but they knew a lot about Jesus and his miracles, so what “faith” are they lacking?

Luke 4: 22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. …29 They got up, drove him out of the town…, in order to throw him off the cliff.

Matt. 13: 57 And they took offense at him….58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith. Mark 6: 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.

Is. 53:11 “…by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many…” Is this our knowledge of Christ or Christ’s knowledge of the many?

Isaiah suggests “knowledge” is the route to justification, so where is the “faith” and is it “faith and knowledge” and knowledge of what?

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

Luke 18: 9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Questions about Tax Collector

If on leaving the temple you asked the tax collector: “do you now feel justified before God or how do you feel”, what would be his answer?

What is the relationship between being humble and being justified before God?

What “knowledge” was needed by the tax collector to be justified? (Sin, forgiveness, Christ, the huge debt of sin, pain and sorrow over sin)

Did the tax collector have to physically do anything to be justified?

Is Christ trying to show us a sincere, remorseful, repentant sinner, hurt by his sins and in pain? And is that what it takes to be justified?

Did Abraham experience some disciplining pain through his life that might have helped with his justification?

Isaiah 53:11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.

Are we trying to be “justified” in some super high court ruled by some all-powerful Judge, who really cannot empathize with man?

Are we trying to be justified before our Loving Father?

What did you go through to be and feel “justified” before your parents (satisfying their justice) or did they think: “it is too late” and disowned you ?

You have been rebelliously disobedient, so can you fairly/justly be lovingly disciplined or do you have to have the same severe punishment of the non-accepting person to be justified?

What do we need to really “know” about Christ to obtain justification?

Our being Justified

We all do not like the idea of being “self-justified”, being like the Pharisee who went to the temple, proud of his status before God, but how are we to respond to being asked: “Do you stand justified before God”?

We want to be justified before God, but how do we know we are justified before God?

Christ said we are justified, but Christ also said we could drink poison and live, so are we?

Do you feel justified before God and what “knowledge” of Christ allows you to feel justified?

When did you come to the realization of being justified before God?

sdowney717 · Aug 1, 2017

We are also justified by His blood.
Here Paul is writing to believers, the saints in Rome, not the world.
Only us for whom Christ died are justified by His blood, because we believe.
The world is not justified by His blood and is not saved from the wrath of God.

Romans 5:8-10New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 2, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
....6) works as evidence of justification
James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

TheSeabass said:
Obedient works in doing God's will bring about justification. No one is first justified for no known reason then go about obeying God's will.

That kinda brings it into the longsuffering of santification because OT means of work were outward while NT works are inward.... so Abraham being justified in laying Isaac on the altar is the laying down of reasonable service of Romans 12:1-3 for people of the promise. hmn[/QUOTE] If it's not a onetime thing does that mean it's a daily laying down?

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 2, 2017

bling said:
I have taught Justification in hour long adult bible classes and not come close to covering the subject you can look over my power point and ask specific questions:

Justification, Justify and Justified

Old Testament (6)

Esther (1), Job (2), Psalm (1), Isaiah (1), Ezekiel (1)

New Testament (27)

Luke (3), Acts (1), Romans (15), 1 Cor. (1), Gal. (6), Titus (1)

Old: Ezekiel 16:52 you have furnished some justification for your sisters (Sodom). Because your sins were more vile than theirs, they appear more righteous than you.

New: Ro. 3: 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Why did Paul see the need for the Roman and Galatian Christians to be taught about “justification”?

The Old Testament never talks about anyone being “Justified”, so were heroes of the Old Testament justified?

What is included with justification?

Being justified is being “set free from every sin” (Acts 13 :39).

Being Justified means you have been raised to life (Ro. 4:25).

The “gift” brings justification. (Ro. 5:16).

“…one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people” (Ro. 5:18).

“…you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God….” (1 Cor. 6:11)

Luke 18:14 “those who humble themselves will be exalted.” ( justified before the Lord) so humility is part of it.

Justification comes through the redemption by Christ Jesus. (Ro. 3:24)

God is shown as being just and thus can justify. (Ro. 3:26)

We have been justified by his blood (Ro. 5:9)

those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. (Ro.8:30)

We believe by our heart and are thus justified. (Ro.10:10)

“…having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.” (Titus 3:7)

Old Testament: Justified Individuals

Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. (Paul’s “Pisidian Antioch sermon in the synagogue”)

If you went back in time and stood before an Old Testament hero and asked them if they felt justified before God, what would you expect their answer to be?

Does saying: “I am justified before the Lord” sound like I am “deserving” of salvation?

Would being a Jew after the Law was given automatically exclude you from being justified?

Who in the Old Testament do you feel stood “justified” before the Lord and why?

Justification by Faith

The New Testament talks about being Justified by faith, but people under the law had faith also and could not be justified by the law, so describe this “faith” that justifies?

In the “Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector in the Temple” did the Pharisee have faith? (Faith in self, but was there also faith in God?)

Jesus talked about not being able to do miracles in his home town because of their lack of “faith”, but they knew a lot about Jesus and his miracles, so what “faith” are they lacking?

Luke 4: 22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. …29 They got up, drove him out of the town…, in order to throw him off the cliff.

Matt. 13: 57 And they took offense at him….58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith. Mark 6: 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith.

Is. 53:11 “…by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many…” Is this our knowledge of Christ or Christ’s knowledge of the many?

Isaiah suggests “knowledge” is the route to justification, so where is the “faith” and is it “faith and knowledge” and knowledge of what?

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

Luke 18: 9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Questions about Tax Collector

If on leaving the temple you asked the tax collector: “do you now feel justified before God or how do you feel”, what would be his answer?

What is the relationship between being humble and being justified before God?

What “knowledge” was needed by the tax collector to be justified? (Sin, forgiveness, Christ, the huge debt of sin, pain and sorrow over sin)

Did the tax collector have to physically do anything to be justified?

Is Christ trying to show us a sincere, remorseful, repentant sinner, hurt by his sins and in pain? And is that what it takes to be justified?

Did Abraham experience some disciplining pain through his life that might have helped with his justification?

Isaiah 53:11 After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.

Are we trying to be “justified” in some super high court ruled by some all-powerful Judge, who really cannot empathize with man?

Are we trying to be justified before our Loving Father?

What did you go through to be and feel “justified” before your parents (satisfying their justice) or did they think: “it is too late” and disowned you ?

You have been rebelliously disobedient, so can you fairly/justly be lovingly disciplined or do you have to have the same severe punishment of the non-accepting person to be justified?

What do we need to really “know” about Christ to obtain justification?

Our being Justified

We all do not like the idea of being “self-justified”, being like the Pharisee who went to the temple, proud of his status before God, but how are we to respond to being asked: “Do you stand justified before God”?

We want to be justified before God, but how do we know we are justified before God?

Christ said we are justified, but Christ also said we could drink poison and live, so are we?

Do you feel justified before God and what “knowledge” of Christ allows you to feel justified?

When did you come to the realization of being justified before God?

So many cool studies. This one really caught my eye.
Can you elaborate

Would being a Jew after the Law was given automatically exclude you from being justified?

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 2, 2017

sdowney717 said:
We are also justified by His blood.
Here Paul is writing to believers, the saints in Rome, not the world.
Only us for whom Christ died are justified by His blood, because we believe.
The world is not justified by His blood and is not saved from the wrath of God.

Romans 5:8-10New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

That's more from God's pov as the giver than from our pov as the ones justified isn't it. God sees the justification in Christ's suffering death. Something else that makes you wanna go hmn.

bling · Aug 3, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
So many cool studies. This one really caught my eye.
Can you elaborate

As Paul reaps many times you cannot be justified under the law, so Jews trying to follow the Law could not be justified, but that would not “exclude” the Jew from being justified. Jesus gives us one parable example that makes this clear and without this example you could easily conclude Jews could never be justified. The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector:

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

This Jewish Tax collect went home justified before God, but how and why?

This is prior to the cross and there is nothing to suggest Christ’s crucifixion was involved.

First off: Standing “justified” before anyone also conveys the idea of what position you want to be justified at in front of that person. If you want to be seen as being great (like the Pharisee) even before other people, your actions would have to support that position to be justified in that position. If you want to be seen as being very humble and lowly before another, that might be easier to justify with your actions. The tax collector felt like dirt before God and was just looking for a very low position in God’s presence, which God can except of this person in that position.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 3, 2017

bling said:
As Paul reaps many times you cannot be justified under the law, so Jews trying to follow the Law could not be justified, but that would not “exclude” the Jew from being justified. Jesus gives us one parable example that makes this clear and without this example you could easily conclude Jews could never be justified. The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector:

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

This Jewish Tax collect went home justified before God, but how and why?

This is prior to the cross and there is nothing to suggest Christ’s crucifixion was involved.

First off: Standing “justified” before anyone also conveys the idea of what position you want to be justified at in front of that person. If you want to be seen as being great (like the Pharisee) even before other people, your actions would have to support that position to be justified in that position. If you want to be seen as being very humble and lowly before another, that might be easier to justify with your actions. The tax collector felt like dirt before God and was just looking for a very low position in God’s presence, which God can except of this person in that position.

There is nothing so practical as a good theory. So here's one as to the time of actual justification. Was the eye of God looking forward to the time of Jesus to justify those in the Old Testament?

From the above post it seems that in both the old and new testament what is being conveyed is God's righteousness. Romans 3:21-22; Luke 18:14; Romans 5:9 because the witness is from both the law and the prophets thru faith both in God the Father and Jesus Christ with no distinction. And the rightousness that is revealed is from faith so therefore His people shall live by faith Romans 1:17
That would bring it to the propitiation and the timeframe of God's acceptance. You have pointed out that in OT times one could be justified in the eyes of God thru humility of character rather than one who exalts oneselves.

Taking the whole of Luke 18 as the context there is first the parable of not losing hope, secondly of not trusting in oneself, thirdly the child not being forbidden to come to Him, forthly the difficulty and necessity of following Him, fifthly the account of His upcoming betrayal death and resurrection according to the writings of the prophets and lastly the blind man that called out to the 'son of David' to heal him of his blindness which Jesus did because 'his faith had healed him'.

I'm setting that forth as what I believe to be the process of propitiation when we see the law as the beginning of understanding Godward to us from old to the new testament.

Romans 3:24-26
Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Whom God set forth as a propitiation place through faith in His blood, for the demonstrating of His righteousness, in that in His forbearance God passed over the sins that had previously occurred,
With a view to the demonstrating of His righteousness in the present time, so that He might be righteous and the One who justifies him who is of the faith of Jesus.

The Feast of Unleavened Bread in Leviticus 23:6-8 shows a small amount was very important because no one was to eat anything from this first harvest until the sheaf of the first-fruits had been waved before the Lord, Leviticus 23:14
Once this sheaf had been accepted by the Lord, the nation could be sustained by the new grain.

Leviticus 23:14
You shall eat no bread or parched grain or fresh ears until that very day, until you have brought the offering of your God: it is a statute forever throughout your generations in all your settlements.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23
But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died. For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

That could be the reason Paul says you cannot be justified under the law ...

Adstar · Aug 3, 2017

Justification is a Gift from God to those who accept his will and trust in the Atonement He secured for the forgiveness of their sins..

No one justifies themselves before God by their deeds..

TheSeabass · Aug 3, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
That kinda brings it into the longsuffering of santification because OT means of work were outward while NT works are inward.... so Abraham being justified in laying Isaac on the altar is the laying down of reasonable service of Romans 12:1-3 for people of the promise. hmn If it's not a onetime thing does that mean it's a daily laying down?

Abraham was justified by obedient works in doing the will of God in the OT and likewise we today are justified by obedient works in doing the will of God. The works God gave Abraham are different from the works we are given under the NT gospel, but obedient works are still obedient works.

Justification is a process, as it was for Abraham. No one is totally, unconditionally justified at one moment in time and have an unconditional guarantee he/she will remain justified regardless of what they do.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 3, 2017

TheSeabass said:
Abraham was justified by obedient works in doing the will of God in the OT and likewise we today are justified by obedient works in doing the will of God. The works God gave Abraham are different from the works we are given under the NT gospel, but obedient works are still obedient works.

Justification is a process, as it was for Abraham. No one is totally, unconditionally justified at one moment in time and have an unconditional guarantee he/she will remain justified regardless of what they do.

Hence the need of a mediator. Even Job recognized that.

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