Are the OT saints part of the body of Christ?

claninja · Aug 1, 2017

The scriptures never explicitly state that the OT saints are part of the body of Christ. The OT saints received earthly physical promises (i.e. physical promised land of Israel) under the old covenant Hebrews 11:9, but did not receive the heavenly promises: Hebrews 11:13,16,39.

Paul makes it clear that the spiritual promises made by God were intended for Abraham and his offspring (who is Christ), not offsprings Galatians 3:16. As we (the body of Christ) are one flesh with Christ Ephesians 5:19-21, we belong to Christ, and are therefore Abraham's seed and are heirs of the promises Galatians 3:28-29.

If the OT saints cannot be made perfect apart from us (the body of Christ) Hebrews 11:40, how are they to inherit the promises through Christ without being part of the body of Christ?

SkyWriting · Aug 1, 2017

claninja said:
If the OT saints cannot be made perfect apart from us (the body of Christ) Hebrews 11:40, how are they to inherit the promises through Christ?

19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

claninja · Aug 1, 2017

SkyWriting said:
19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

Thank you for the response, although I only see how this gives the OT no excuse not to believe that there is a creator. How are the OT saints made perfect without Christ?

SkyWriting · Aug 1, 2017

claninja said:
Thank you for the response, although I only see how this gives the OT no excuse not to believe that there is a creator. How are the OT saints made perfect without Christ?

Jesus is the Creator. All things were made through Him.
Spirits do not experience time, so there are no "timing"
problems with God.
See also: Answered Prayer

Rigatoni · Aug 1, 2017

I believe that salvation has always been the same way - OT saints had faith in what Jesus was going to do, and we have faith in what Jesus already did. It's interesting though that in the OT, there were many pictures of Jewish men having gentile brides, and maybe that is a clue that the bride of Christ is mainly or completely made up of gentiles / NT saints? Just a theory.

claninja · Aug 1, 2017

Anthony7 said:
I believe that salvation has always been the same way - OT saints had faith in what Jesus was going to do, and we have faith in what Jesus already did. It's interesting though that in the OT, there were many pictures of Jewish men having gentile brides, and maybe that is a clue that the bride of Christ is mainly or completely made up of gentiles / NT saints? Just a theory.

So would that make OT saints part of the body of Christ or are they a separate group that God saves differently?

claninja · Aug 1, 2017

SkyWriting said:
Jesus is the Creator. All things were made through Him.
Spirits do not experience time, so there are no "timing"
problems with God.
See also: Answered Prayer

Although this a very vague response, I none the less appreciate it.

Rigatoni · Aug 1, 2017

claninja said:
So would that make OT saints part of the body of Christ or are they a separate group that God saves differently?

Sorry, I got "body of Christ" mixed up with "bride of Christ" lol. I think OT saints are also part of the body Christ; some people believe in dual-covenant salvation, but I don't think they are part of some separate group. God does deal with mankind in dispensations, but the method of salvation stays the same, and all those who are saved become part of the body of Christ.

1stcenturylady · Aug 1, 2017

Old Testament saints had faith in the coming Messiah, who is Jesus.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Jesus said to the thief on the cross, TODAY you will be with me in Paradise. Remember after the resurrection, they saw many of the OT saints walking around Jerusalem? It is only my opinion, but I believe that Abraham's Bosom was emptied and ascended to heaven with Christ and are there now.

claninja · Aug 1, 2017

Anthony7 said:
Sorry, I got "body of Christ" mixed up with "bride of Christ" lol. I think OT saints are also part of the body Christ; some people believe in dual-covenant salvation, but I don't think they are part of some separate group. God does with mankind in dispensations, but the method of salvation stays the same, and all those who are saved become part of the body of Christ.

I would agree

JESUS=G.O.A.T · Aug 1, 2017

claninja said:
The scriptures never explicitly state that the OT saints are part of the body of Christ. The OT saints received earthly physical promises (i.e. physical promised land of Israel) under the old covenant Hebrews 11:9, but did not receive the heavenly promises: Hebrews 11:13,16,39.

Paul makes it clear that the spiritual promises made by God were intended for Abraham and his offspring (who is Christ), not offsprings Galatians 3:16. As we (the body of Christ) are one flesh with Christ Ephesians 5:19-21, we belong to Christ, and are therefore Abraham's seed and are heirs of the promises Galatians 3:28-29.

If the OT saints cannot be made perfect apart from us (the body of Christ) Hebrews 11:40, how are they to inherit the promises through Christ without being part of the body of Christ?

good question especially considering the fact that salvation in the NT is different then the OT.

the bible indicates they will receive the promise of heaven as we will but will not be part of the 1,000 year reign we see this in revelations 20. The bible mentions how the Holy spirit within those who are saved will be quickened but OT people didn't have the Holy Spirit on the inside.

So yeah they will be up ion heaven with us...just their route will be slightly different, not to mention OT people will be judged off works and devotion while those who are saved in the NT will not be judjged the same way we see this in revelations 21.

claninja · Aug 1, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Old Testament saints had faith in the coming Messiah, who is Jesus.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Jesus said to the thief on the cross, TODAY you will be with me in Paradise. Remember after the resurrection, they saw many of the OT saints walking around Jerusalem? It is only my opinion, but I believe that Abraham's Bosom was emptied and ascended to heaven with Christ and are there now.

So would that make OT saints part of the body of Christ, or are they a different group?

Phantasman · Aug 1, 2017

If you listen to Hebrews, they are. If you listen to Christ (Gospel) they weren't. No one knows who wrote Hebrews, but the early catholics incorporated it into their belief system.

The OT saints could only rely on faith, since truth had not yet come. Their faith saved them when they slept in Hades and Jesus appeared to them as light at the resurrection.

Matthew:
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

It is only through Christ the dead can be resurrected. And they were dead.

The early Christian scriptures say:
And I entered into the midst of their prison, which is the prison of the body. And I said, 'He who hears, let him get up from the deep sleep.' And he wept and shed tears. Bitter tears he wiped from himself and he said, 'Who is it that calls my name, and from where has this hope come to me, while I am in the chains of the prison?' And I said, 'I am the Pronoia of the pure light; I am the thinking of the virginal Spirit, who raised you up to the honored place. Arise and remember that it is you who hearkened, and follow your root, which is I, the merciful one,- Apocryphon of John

I can see that vision as probably close to what happened.

The Jews believed that the tree of Knowledge brought them death. But it was the accepting of the spirit. And through the spirit, they were saved.

1stcenturylady · Aug 1, 2017

claninja said:
So would that make OT saints part of the body of Christ, or are they a different group?

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I don't think it really says, but they are already there. But when we die, our spirit also goes to the Father. Whether both groups comes back to earth to be reunited with our new bodies, or whether they already have their new bodies, and Christ's resurrection was theirs too, I don't know. But, I believe we will ALL sit down at the marriage supper of the lamb, including the Jews that will be saved during their last week (7 years) that were prophesied in Daniel 9.

HereIStand · Aug 1, 2017

One verse that stood out today is Exodus 12:49, "One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you" (KJV). If we look at the blood of the Passover as a type of Christ's sacrifice, then both Jew and Gentile were saved by it. Not by Passover observance, but by faith in Christ to come.

com7fy8 · Aug 1, 2017

claninja said:
The scriptures never explicitly state that the OT saints are part of the body of Christ.

Hi, claninja

You might feed on Hebrews chapter eleven which is called the faith chapter. Here, we are given examples of faith, which people had before Jesus came to earth. I consider that if these people are an example for us, this can support that they are saved and our brothers and sisters.

Also > Galatians 3:5-9 > our Apostle Paul says faithful Abraham is the father of us who believe. If Abraham is not saved, then how could he be our spiritual father?

claninja · Aug 1, 2017

com7fy8 said:
Hi, claninja

You might feed on Hebrews chapter eleven which is called the faith chapter. Here, we are given examples of faith, which people had before Jesus came to earth. I consider that if these people are an example for us, this can support that they are saved and our brothers and sisters.

Also > Galatians 3:5-9 > our Apostle Paul says faithful Abraham is the father of us who believe. If Abraham is not saved, then how could he be our spiritual father?

That is a very good point, thank you! I absolutely agree. I started this thread as I have encountered some who don't believe the OT saints are part of the body of Christ. This in turn made me curious as to how they thought the OT saints could be perfected/heirs without being part of us(body of Christ).

com7fy8 · Aug 1, 2017

claninja said:
This in turn made me curious as to how they thought the OT saints could be perfected/heirs without being part of us(body of Christ).

I consider how they could have been truly saved people of godly character, but they have not been perfected by being bodily resurrected.

claninja · Aug 1, 2017

com7fy8 said:
If Abraham is not saved, then how could he be our spiritual father?

Also, if we, by faith, are sons of Abraham, then So would the OT saints be.

Soyeong · Aug 1, 2017

claninja said:
The scriptures never explicitly state that the OT saints are part of the body of Christ. The OT saints received earthly physical promises (i.e. physical promised land of Israel) under the old covenant Hebrews 11:9, but did not receive the heavenly promises: Hebrews 11:13,16,39.

Paul makes it clear that the spiritual promises made by God were intended for Abraham and his offspring (who is Christ), not offsprings Galatians 3:16. As we (the body of Christ) are one flesh with Christ Ephesians 5:19-21, we belong to Christ, and are therefore Abraham's seed and are heirs of the promises Galatians 3:28-29.

If the OT saints cannot be made perfect apart from us (the body of Christ) Hebrews 11:40, how are they to inherit the promises through Christ without being part of the body of Christ?

According to John 8:56, Abraham saw Messiah's day and was glad, and he is the father of our faith, so all who have faith in the promise are part of the body of Christ regardless of being born before or after him.

Are the OT saints part of the body of Christ?

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