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You came here thirsty from trying to drink out of the shallow wells...
What a joy to see you sieze the bit in your teeth!
Arsenios
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STAGES OF DISCIPLESHIP
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You came here thirsty from trying to drink out of the shallow wells...
What a joy to see you sieze the bit in your teeth!
Arsenios
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So, trying to consolidate St. Paul's writing here with Metropolitan Vlachos'....is there a relationship between "justification" as St. Paul describes, and the "illumination of the nous" referred to by the Metropolitan? If so, what is the nature of that? If not, can you reconcile these different descriptions of the stages of discipleship, both of which would start in the same place and end in a similar place?
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Thank you, good sir.
Yes, I'm thirsty for Him, and long to deepen my, for lack of a better word (but it doesn't come close to describing that for which I long), "understanding" of Him, towards Whom I see the path of discipleship the means to find Him.
Digesting all that has been said here (from many), and discerning that which is true and right...that may take some time.
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Many prayers for God's will in your lifeAnd besides, I love giving Cassia more reasons to pray for me!
Arsenios
may you both find this song inspirational. Peace and grace
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"Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells" by Matthew Gallatin...
https://www.amazon.com/Thirsting-God-Land-Shallow-Wells/dp/1888212284
Arsenios
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God's Call - Repentance unto Purification of the Heart...
Baptism - Illumination of the Nous - Justification before God
Theosis - Glorification
God's Call brings us to our need for repentance - We are convicted in it of our sin, and see our need to turn from it, and we begin the purification of the heart...
Baptism enters us into the Kingdom of Heaven, the Body of Christ, cleansed from all sin, then conjoined with God in the New Creation we have then become via the Holy Unction via the laying on of hands and in this we are established in Right Relationship with God, which IS Justification, which is BY God acting through the hands of His Servants within His Holy Body, the Church, which has the responsibility to disciple all the nations...
After Baptism into Christ, we now have clarity of vision in seeing what needs to be done to overcome our love of sin - eg We run the race set before us - Fighting the war against Powers and Principalities in high places - We confront, as they arise, the Goliaths we now are finding in the Promised Land of the Kingdom of Heaven... And across time, as we overcome these dark forces, God will in His Own Time, as He grants us victory after victory - eg as we proceed from Glory in overcoming to Glory - We will be Glorified by God here on earth... eg We will enter into a totally Personal relationship with Christ the Bridegroom in the Mystery of the Marriage of the Lamb...
Or not...
OUR concern is solely with running the race and overcoming our own passions, and that is what the discipling of the Church is all about... Ouir efforts are to keep the purity of heart, by living repentant lives overcoming temptations, that we received in Baptism, confessing our sins and getting back up in confession and repentance every single time we stumble or fall...
The old people who do this tend to be very bright-eyed and joyful...
Arsenios
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Many prayers for God's will in your life
Consider the cost of building a tower
It's a narrow way that you must come
For to do the will of the Father
Is to follow the Son
We love Him more than father or mother
We love Him more than even your own flesh
To give all that you are,
for all that He is
This is the Gospel
according to Jesus
This is what we disciple...
We have been doing so for 2000 years...
One life at a time...
The narrow way is straited in afflictions...
It is called askesis, and we disciple its ways...
We know how to give all...
We know Jesus...
Lovely song - Inspiring to hear...
This thread is about the 'how to'...
Count the Cost indeed!
It will cost yiou who you think you are...
To become as God desires you to be...
And you will overecome the world...
Arsenios
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Another interesting looking read, if I ever get caught up on the others...
This seems clear enoough, but I need to think on it more.
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Prior to Orthodoxy, I was posting on Carl Conrad's Bible-Greek site as I was working my way through translational issues with the Book of John... And a guy pm'ed me and said, because I liked very literal translations that make English read like Greek whenever remotely possible, he said: "You sound Orthodox..." And I replied: "What's Orthodox?" And he said: "From 33AD Christianity..." And I said: "Cool - Have they written anything?" And I was immediately buried in the avalanch of 2000 years of Christian writings...
He started me out with Father Arseny and the Philokalia and The Way of a Pilgrim... My Baptismal name, Arsenios, came from my response to the first book I read with the Russian version of my name in the title, Fr. Arsenii [eg Father Arseny]...
This Orthodox Faith is the catholic Faith, so that the schema laid out gives a means of understanding the process, with the caveat that things can actually happen in virtually any sequence... And that they normally do! Yet this schema gives a pretty good over-view... What I am trying to say is that the God-Quest, which the Orthodox Faith very much IS, is a REALITY-quest... We don't blink, and we don't duck - For us, a gob-smack is a God-smack, and whichever gob (or glob) it might be is irrelevant - It is all the Providence of God... His Provide-ance... For our benefit... And all of it is to be grasped according to the whole [kata holon, catholic] of the quest, which is freedom from this fallen and evil-permeated world and Union with our Creator...
Arsenios
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I want to comment on a previous post you made that outside of orthodoxy/religion is where you found Christ but now you have given your all to find the teachings within. There is always a Gehazi to claim the spoils. That may just be the easier softer road.
Having the mind (the nous) of Christ is a commandment Romans 12:1-3 the askesis that is commonly taught in the bible. It is indeed the gospel according to Jesus.
If anyone is willing...
after Me to be coming...
let him first deny himself...
then take up his cross...
and follow me...
One has to be willing to follow HIM, pick up the cross, follow after HIM. Why would anyone turn away from Him, to condemn His means of coming to just follow another path? You have tried to explain the boil of filth that it had proceeded from, so in a sence I can relate. Even so I think it wrong to condemn the means. Jus sayin' It was the first step of purification of the soul for you. That was your entry into the Faith which Christ discipled to His Disciples.
I had a somewhat similar experience that found me at the church wanting to declare my allience to Christ in public baptism of my new-found faith. The catharsis... the purged conscience... is maintained at the throne of Grace in daily coming to Him in prayer. Imo you have chosen to seek Him elsewhere because of the rejection of the means and choosing to pay the Gehazi's of the world their dues. I don't believe that the mysteries are held by any but those who have paid the dues of honor and fear to God while the taxes are for the foreignors. But not to cause offense ...
Let me just say that that which is according to the whole the kata-holon .. is the heart of the matter. A darkening of the nous that returns to the ways of the Gentile is forbidden.
Ephesians 4:17-24
This I say therefore, and testify in [the] Lord, that ye should no longer walk as [the rest of] the nations walk in [the] vanity of their mind, (nous)
being darkened in understanding (dianoia), estranged from the life of God by reason of the ignorance which is in them, by reason of the hardness of their hearts,
who having cast off all feeling, have given themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greedy unsatisfied lust.
But *ye* have not thus learnt the Christ,
if ye have heard him and been instructed in him according as [the] truth is in Jesus;
[namely] your having put off according to the former conversation the old man which corrupts itself according to the deceitful lusts;
and being renewed in the spirit of your mind;(nous)
and [your] having put on the new man, which according to God is created in truthful righteousness and holiness.
You wrote
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind 3563,nous
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: (blindness: or, hardness) Strong's Greek: 1271. διάνοια (dianoia) -- the mind, disposition, thought
Romans 13:12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.[
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Romans 13:14
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh to fulfill its lusts.
ETA
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament.
nous the meaning of the term:
1. The original meaning of nous is (inner) sence directed on an object, and from this come such meanings as ``sensation``power of perception, and mode of thought. The main nuances are ``mind, insight, understanding, judgement and meaning``
2. The word is rare in the LXX, since Kardia is there the main organ of understanding. The usual meaning in Apocrypha is mind or disposition.
3. The term is imprecise in postbiblical Jewish works, having such senses as moral nature, mode of thought, and power of spiritual perception.
Having the mind (the nous) of Christ is a commandment Romans 12:1-3 the askesis that is commonly taught in the bible. It is indeed the gospel according to Jesus.
If anyone is willing...
after Me to be coming...
let him first deny himself...
then take up his cross...
and follow me...
One has to be willing to follow HIM, pick up the cross, follow after HIM. Why would anyone turn away from Him, to condemn His means of coming to just follow another path? You have tried to explain the boil of filth that it had proceeded from, so in a sence I can relate. Even so I think it wrong to condemn the means. Jus sayin' It was the first step of purification of the soul for you. That was your entry into the Faith which Christ discipled to His Disciples.
I had a somewhat similar experience that found me at the church wanting to declare my allience to Christ in public baptism of my new-found faith. The catharsis... the purged conscience... is maintained at the throne of Grace in daily coming to Him in prayer. Imo you have chosen to seek Him elsewhere because of the rejection of the means and choosing to pay the Gehazi's of the world their dues. I don't believe that the mysteries are held by any but those who have paid the dues of honor and fear to God while the taxes are for the foreignors. But not to cause offense ...
Let me just say that that which is according to the whole the kata-holon .. is the heart of the matter. A darkening of the nous that returns to the ways of the Gentile is forbidden.
Ephesians 4:17-24
This I say therefore, and testify in [the] Lord, that ye should no longer walk as [the rest of] the nations walk in [the] vanity of their mind, (nous)
being darkened in understanding (dianoia), estranged from the life of God by reason of the ignorance which is in them, by reason of the hardness of their hearts,
who having cast off all feeling, have given themselves up to lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greedy unsatisfied lust.
But *ye* have not thus learnt the Christ,
if ye have heard him and been instructed in him according as [the] truth is in Jesus;
[namely] your having put off according to the former conversation the old man which corrupts itself according to the deceitful lusts;
and being renewed in the spirit of your mind;(nous)
and [your] having put on the new man, which according to God is created in truthful righteousness and holiness.
You wrote
Keeping an unveiled spirit to live in communion with God. Where there is a closed nous, there is a closed spirit that God cannot shine light into. Darkened in understanding is called dianoia ... having the same root as nous but while nous is a organ the dianoia is the function of the nous.
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind 3563,nous
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: (blindness: or, hardness) Strong's Greek: 1271. διάνοια (dianoia) -- the mind, disposition, thought
Romans 13:12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.[
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Romans 13:14
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh to fulfill its lusts.
ETA
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament.
nous the meaning of the term:
1. The original meaning of nous is (inner) sence directed on an object, and from this come such meanings as ``sensation``power of perception, and mode of thought. The main nuances are ``mind, insight, understanding, judgement and meaning``
2. The word is rare in the LXX, since Kardia is there the main organ of understanding. The usual meaning in Apocrypha is mind or disposition.
3. The term is imprecise in postbiblical Jewish works, having such senses as moral nature, mode of thought, and power of spiritual perception.
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The tears of my sobbing beseeching and drenching your toes have found pity in your soul for me!
Glory to God!
You have decided to post on this thread!
Here is what happened: I spent a 36 year lifetime trying to heal my own soul...
I failed, and looked only to the very near end of my life...
In that broken state, across three Christmasses, I encountered God...
I KNEW, in this encounter, that I had eternal Life, that my previous life had been answered, that I had relief from its symptomatology, and that the God I KNEW was NOT, for an indisputable FACT, the Christian God...
So I spent the next 14 years walking with Him, exploring all the spiritual traditions I could find in the world to discover ANY other people who KNEW God as I did... I found NONE... I found one individual, passing through town - Almost no others, in 14 years of looking... That one was a Christian... He KNEW God as I do... A clue lost on me...
All the while, God had been bugging me to read the Gospel of John, and in my 14th year of knowing Him, I relented, and making no sense whatsoever of "In the beginning was the Word...", I began ..."reading it in Greek, dusting off old college skills, where it 'opened' for me...
And when I got to chapter 12, after the Raising of Lazarus, God came over my left shoulder and 'mentioned': "You know, the same Spirit that caused this Book to be written is the One that brought you forth out of darkness..." And, still focused on a translational issue, I casually turned to my left shoulder and said: "Well, that's crap..." and turned back to the Greek...
And heard a soft "hhhmmmmm..."
And stopped, and said: "Wait a minute! That was God!"
And I turned back and said in a modified whine: "But I don't even LIKE Christians!"
And He said: "Don't attack them..."
And I said: "But Lord! Who will minister to their ministers? These guys are SERIOUSLY messed up?"
And He said again: "Don't attack them..."
I was scandalized!d And I said: "I am a Christian???"
And I paced the living room rug in figure eights for some time...
So that was how I 'found' Christ...
And later, reading vol 2 of the Philokalia, I FINALLY found the guys who are MY guys, who know God as I know God, and more... And then I encountered them in Orthodox Monasteries... There are not many... And they are more advanced than I am, and are able to disciple what I found outside that discipleship, and what I couild not disciple...
If I were to tell people to do what I did, and if they did it, they would end up dead or behind bars or worse...
The Nous of Christ is not something that can be commanded to man, for man cannot decide to choose it... He can only repent... Christ has to GIVE it, because it is HIS to HAVE and to GIVE, and no one else can do so...
If anyone is willing...
after Me to be coming...
let him first deny himself...
then take up his cross...
and follow me...
You liked my translation!
But denial of self comes first...
I hope you understand now that the path I followed is a dangerous one - I am the only one I know who has followed it and survived to know God...
We do a life confession the night prior to Baptism, and I tried to warn my Priest ahead of time, without success... And three days later, at a dinner at his house, his wife said to me: "Arsenios, you have lived an interesting life. Why don't you write a book about how you became Orthodox?"
And he replied to her: "And he would scandalize every person even thinking about approaching this Faith!"
Trust me - IF you knew the means, you would too...
It was the whole path...
It amounted to what monastics spend a lifetime attaining...
I went through my whole soul cleaning it out...
It amounted to a Baptism without a Priest...
"I will be found by those not seeking Me..."
I can only assure you that what I did is NOT what Christ discipled to the Apostles...
I am more like Paul - He was seeing to the binding and killing of the followers of Christ...
He did NOT disciple that path to Christ...
Well God bless your path and its continuance in daily prayer...
For myself, He is just always pretty much present...
I hope Paul's eample above will change that imo...
The son is the inheritor, and all belongs to him, but at the beginning, he is little more than a slave/servant... I can't remember where to find that quote... It came from the Bible...
This darkening is caused by the distractions of the world, which darken it regarding that which is un-worldly - eg God and the Kingdom of Heaven not OF the world...
Remember that the Way of the Lord was Obedience to the Father...
And that the Way He discipled was obedience to Him...
And that the Way He prescribed to the nations was obedience to the Apostles...
"Teaching them to carefully guard ALL that I have COMMANDED you (to be doing)..."
I do not remember writing this...
A totally darkened nous is one totally immersed in the world...
A totally enlightened nous is one totally immersed in God's Light!
We are not our thoughts...
We GENERATE thoughts...
We precede thoughts...
The person that produces thinking is not the thinking he produces...
The nous is not really an organ, but is more a faculty...
Empty your mind of all thinking, and you will know what the nous is...
An incounter with God silences thinking, in a purified heart...
Thank-you for your prayers and for coming to me with matters that you thought were not being encouraged by me... Forgive me for giving you the sense that some things won't wash here...
Your tears-drenched toes are my treasury!
Arsenios
This post is too long!
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I'm sorry but the reading of that went something like this "all I here is the noise of adults from the Charlie Brown comic"The tears of my sobbing beseeching and drenching your toes have found pity in your soul for me!
Glory to God!
You have decided to post on this thread!
Here is what happened: I spent a 36 year lifetime trying to heal my own soul...
I failed, and looked only to the very near end of my life...
In that broken state, across three Christmasses, I encountered God...
I KNEW, in this encounter, that I had eternal Life, that my previous life had been answered, that I had relief from its symptomatology, and that the God I KNEW was NOT, for an indisputable FACT, the Christian God...
So I spent the next 14 years walking with Him, exploring all the spiritual traditions I could find in the world to discover ANY other people who KNEW God as I did... I found NONE... I found one individual, passing through town - Almost no others, in 14 years of looking... That one was a Christian... He KNEW God as I do... A clue lost on me...
All the while, God had been bugging me to read the Gospel of John, and in my 14th year of knowing Him, I relented, and making no sense whatsoever of "In the beginning was the Word...", I began ..."reading it in Greek, dusting off old college skills, where it 'opened' for me...
And when I got to chapter 12, after the Raising of Lazarus, God came over my left shoulder and 'mentioned': "You know, the same Spirit that caused this Book to be written is the One that brought you forth out of darkness..." And, still focused on a translational issue, I casually turned to my left shoulder and said: "Well, that's crap..." and turned back to the Greek...
And heard a soft "hhhmmmmm..."
And stopped, and said: "Wait a minute! That was God!"
And I turned back and said in a modified whine: "But I don't even LIKE Christians!"
And He said: "Don't attack them..."
And I said: "But Lord! Who will minister to their ministers? These guys are SERIOUSLY messed up?"
And He said again: "Don't attack them..."
I was scandalized!d And I said: "I am a Christian???"
And I paced the living room rug in figure eights for some time...
So that was how I 'found' Christ...
And later, reading vol 2 of the Philokalia, I FINALLY found the guys who are MY guys, who know God as I know God, and more... And then I encountered them in Orthodox Monasteries... There are not many... And they are more advanced than I am, and are able to disciple what I found outside that discipleship, and what I couild not disciple...
If I were to tell people to do what I did, and if they did it, they would end up dead or behind bars or worse...
The Nous of Christ is not something that can be commanded to man, for man cannot decide to choose it... He can only repent... Christ has to GIVE it, because it is HIS to HAVE and to GIVE, and no one else can do so...
If anyone is willing...
after Me to be coming...
let him first deny himself...
then take up his cross...
and follow me...
You liked my translation!
But denial of self comes first...
I hope you understand now that the path I followed is a dangerous one - I am the only one I know who has followed it and survived to know God...
We do a life confession the night prior to Baptism, and I tried to warn my Priest ahead of time, without success... And three days later, at a dinner at his house, his wife said to me: "Arsenios, you have lived an interesting life. Why don't you write a book about how you became Orthodox?"
And he replied to her: "And he would scandalize every person even thinking about approaching this Faith!"
Trust me - IF you knew the means, you would too...
It was the whole path...
It amounted to what monastics spend a lifetime attaining...
I went through my whole soul cleaning it out...
It amounted to a Baptism without a Priest...
"I will be found by those not seeking Me..."
I can only assure you that what I did is NOT what Christ discipled to the Apostles...
I am more like Paul - He was seeing to the binding and killing of the followers of Christ...
He did NOT disciple that path to Christ...
Well God bless your path and its continuance in daily prayer...
For myself, He is just always pretty much present...
I hope Paul's eample above will change that imo...
The son is the inheritor, and all belongs to him, but at the beginning, he is little more than a slave/servant... I can't remember where to find that quote... It came from the Bible...
This darkening is caused by the distractions of the world, which darken it regarding that which is un-worldly - eg God and the Kingdom of Heaven not OF the world...
Remember that the Way of the Lord was Obedience to the Father...
And that the Way He discipled was obedience to Him...
And that the Way He prescribed to the nations was obedience to the Apostles...
"Teaching them to carefully guard ALL that I have COMMANDED you (to be doing)..."
I do not remember writing this...
A totally darkened nous is one totally immersed in the world...
A totally enlightened nous is one totally immersed in God's Light!
We are not our thoughts...
We GENERATE thoughts...
We precede thoughts...
The person that produces thinking is not the thinking he produces...
The nous is not really an organ, but is more a faculty...
Empty your mind of all thinking, and you will know what the nous is...
An incounter with God silences thinking, in a purified heart...
Thank-you for your prayers and for coming to me with matters that you thought were not being encouraged by me... Forgive me for giving you the sense that some things won't wash here...
Your tears-drenched toes are my treasury!
Arsenios
This post is too long!
One of my encounters with God went like this:
I was kicked out onto the dusty road that led to God and told to like the other disciples.
It's a long road and I'm still trying.
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Cassia said:
Arsenios said:
Cassia said:
This (above) I recognize...
But this:
"Keeping an unveiled spirit to live in communion with God."
I do not...
No big!
Arsenios
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Then there is nothing wrong with your hearing...
That would be a good first step...
Hard to do...
But...
Not liking other disciples...
Is, indeed, repentable...
Thank God the road is long...
The good die young!
But not me!
Arsenios
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That's because I wrote that part.
This will probably sound as much like the wha wha of adults to other Charlie Browners but I'll post it anyway.
1 Corinthians 14:19
Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind (nous) in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
Quote from Nous - OrthodoxWiki
For the Apostle Paul reasonable or logical worship takes place by means of the nous (i.e., the reason or the intellect) while noetic prayer occurs through the spirit and is spiritual prayer or prayer of the heart.[4] So when the Apostle Paul says, "I prefer to say five words with my nous in order to instruct others rather than a thousand with my tongue,"[5] he means that he prefers to say five words, in other words to speak a bit, for the instruction of others rather than pray noetically. Some monks interpret what St. Paul says here as a reference to the Prayer of Jesus, which consists of five words,[6] but at this point the Apostle is speaking here about the words he used in instructing others.[7] For how can catechism take place with noetic prayer, since noetic prayer is a person"s inward prayer, and others around him do not hear anything? Catechism, however, takes place with teaching and worship that are cogent and reasonable. We teach and speak by using the reason, which is the usual way that people communicate with each other.[8][/quote]
An inspired message or revealation from God in the 5 words are good from intuition of the nous while a prepared message is from the intellect and not necessarily inspired.For the Apostle Paul reasonable or logical worship takes place by means of the nous (i.e., the reason or the intellect) while noetic prayer occurs through the spirit and is spiritual prayer or prayer of the heart.[4] So when the Apostle Paul says, "I prefer to say five words with my nous in order to instruct others rather than a thousand with my tongue,"[5] he means that he prefers to say five words, in other words to speak a bit, for the instruction of others rather than pray noetically. Some monks interpret what St. Paul says here as a reference to the Prayer of Jesus, which consists of five words,[6] but at this point the Apostle is speaking here about the words he used in instructing others.[7] For how can catechism take place with noetic prayer, since noetic prayer is a person"s inward prayer, and others around him do not hear anything? Catechism, however, takes place with teaching and worship that are cogent and reasonable. We teach and speak by using the reason, which is the usual way that people communicate with each other.[8][/quote]
quote from Philokalia, vol. IV (London: Faber and Faber, 1995), p, 334.
The heart is the place of man's spirit.
This means that the Spirit of God speaks to our spirit. In other words, God speaks within our heart by the grace of the Holy Spirit. St. Gregory Palamas in his second discourse from "In Behalf of the Sacred Hesychasts" notes that "the heart rules over the whole human organism". For the nous and all the thoughts (logismoi) of the soul are located there." From the context of grace-filled prayer, it is clear that the term "heart" does not refer to the physical heart, but to the deep heart, while the term nous does not refer to the intellect (dianoia), but to the energy/activity of the heart, the noetic activity which wells forth from the essence of the nous (i.e., the heart). For this reason, St. Gregory adds that it is necessary for the hesychasts "to bring their nous back and enclose it within their body and particularly within that innermost body, within the body that we call the heart." The term "spirit" is also identical with the terms nous and "heart."
I prefer to think that intellect and intuition are separate functions. Intellect is of the soulish intellect and intuition as being a function of the human spirit.The heart is the place of man's spirit.
This means that the Spirit of God speaks to our spirit. In other words, God speaks within our heart by the grace of the Holy Spirit. St. Gregory Palamas in his second discourse from "In Behalf of the Sacred Hesychasts" notes that "the heart rules over the whole human organism". For the nous and all the thoughts (logismoi) of the soul are located there." From the context of grace-filled prayer, it is clear that the term "heart" does not refer to the physical heart, but to the deep heart, while the term nous does not refer to the intellect (dianoia), but to the energy/activity of the heart, the noetic activity which wells forth from the essence of the nous (i.e., the heart). For this reason, St. Gregory adds that it is necessary for the hesychasts "to bring their nous back and enclose it within their body and particularly within that innermost body, within the body that we call the heart." The term "spirit" is also identical with the terms nous and "heart."
It's important to know at every moment from what area of nous one is working from. Sometimes it could from direct revelation, other times it could be from those things that have been pondered upon in the heart and other times it could be from a darkened mind. In reflecting upon these things there is no problem in discerning one's actions at all times. The bible's example is to the revelation, followed by the pondering in the heart, giving forth to rightly dividing the Word of God, and speaking forth with knowledge.
A believer hasn't the same mind of the darkened intellect referred to in Romans 1:28 where it says reprobate nous. or Ephesians 4:17 vain nous. or Colossians 2:18 fleshly nous. or 2 Timothy 3:8 corrupt nous. or Titus 1:15 defiled nous.
The believer 'knows' God and in 'knowing' Him they 'know' they are saved. In hearing they have believed, being reborn into the new heart and spirit. They have a renewed nous that they can understand spiritual things. That 'knowing' is the work of the regenerated nous. John 17:3 The place where Christ dwells within is where we KNOW that He hears our prayer, where the peace beyond understanding dwells because it is NOT associated with conditions pertaining to the outer condition of the soul.
The author of the book of Hebrews advised believers not to stagger in the wandering of their souls, the souls they had to deny, but to press on in their spirit so as to enjoy the heavenly Christ so that they could participate in the king's rest.
If they staggered in that soul wandering, they would miss out on God's goal by suffering the loss of the enjoyment of Christ and also the kingdom's rest in this age.
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Oh good grief!It was even worse at the time because it was actually the 12 companions of Jesus that I was complaining to God about
So was He all that sympathetic?
Arsenios
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I can't tell you how much I like seeing you quote vol 4 of the Philokalia and St. Gregory Palamas...
Reasoning and free and memory will pretty much die with the brain at death...
The nous is dependent on neither reasoning, memory, or free will...
Nor is it dependent on the brain or body...
In this fallen life, the nous is the exerciser of free will...
How did you approach your understanding of the nous?
Arsenios
Reasoning and free and memory will pretty much die with the brain at death...
The nous is dependent on neither reasoning, memory, or free will...
Nor is it dependent on the brain or body...
In this fallen life, the nous is the exerciser of free will...
How did you approach your understanding of the nous?
Arsenios
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I guess He didn't seem that sympathetic. I've been privilege to much of spirituality that sees too much of the dark side. Kinda one of those worth a million experiences that one wouldn't give 2c to relive.
But you are a great listener so thank you for that. God bless!
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