May I write a short book here? Sorry. I don't expect anyone to read through a wall of text like this. It got out of hand...
I like name and concept of "Open Table" a lot. Get across the general idea of not being doctrinaire, closed-minded, stiff-necked. (On any side of a debate or discussion.) Labels like "Progressive Christian" and "Liberal Christian" are confusing to me in so many ways, not the least being that different people who identify with either of those labels often have very different definitions and assumptions from others using the same indicator.
It's even difficult to determine the difference between "politically liberal" and "politically progressive." Again, because different folks using either term will define it differently when I ask them. Some just use the term "progressive" as if it meant "EXTRA liberal." Others insist that "neo-liberalism" is destroying our world and progressivism is the only way forward. Still others use the terms interchangeably. Many political conservatives also think of the terms as equivalent (in a very negative light). Sometimes the only difference I can determine seems to be generational. Younger people tend to use the term "progressive" more often than "liberal." But does this denote a different meaning? Are they just terms indicating opposition to "conservatism?" (Or is it the other way around?)
Now, if we are talking about doctrine, then I am even less certain of the difference between "liberal" and "progressive." Are there specific interpretations of key verses/passages that are labeled "fundamentalist," "conservative," "liberal," and "progressive?" All different depending on the interpretation? (Or the outcome of a particular interpretation?) Does it have to do with "social justice?" Even if one used the most literal (and reasonable) reading of a multitude of passages in Scripture, one cannot help but see the obvious entreaties to social justice, and the duty we have in bringing it about -- or at least mitigating social injustice. How can conservative Christians lambaste other believers by calling them (as an epithet) SJWs; Social Justice Warriors -- unless they do not believe Scripture advocates for the poor, the downtrodden, the dispossessed, the "least among us?"
Things seem to get more tribal as troubles (real or perceived) arise. Black Lives Matter is regularly called a domestic terrorist group by many conservatives. "Illegal aliens" speaking Spanish are among the tribe's favorite targets (and scapegoats for many ills). Feminism is still called out as the cornerstone of the "godless liberals" who they believe are the source of our problems. Conservatives over the decades have used certain passages in Scripture to justify slavery, genocide, the exploitation of women, anti-miscegenation laws, and even things that are quite relevant and in the forefront of current events, yet ChristianForums.com thinks it best to pretend it doesn't exist at all, and that everyone follow suit. "I see nothing! I hear nothing!" Sargent Schultz style.
The whole idea of seeing the cultural changes right before their eyes -- as earlier generations watched the Civil Rights movement change the status quo to such a degree that they either embraced the new paradigm and awareness of justice, or they pined for the "country I once knew, and we must return to" -- and resist every step of the way, to the point of trying to foment backlashes and even instances of attempted incitement on camera and before large crowds. Coming from people who identify as Christian believers, followers of Christ, brandishing their guns and maybe a Confederate Battle Flag in their angry protests about the country they think they've lost to the "enemy." Scary stuff. And this sub-forum is a small corner of one of their largest forum sites, a place where some of us can talk to each other, reason together, think about things that many conservatives believe are so set in stone that they are not to be discussed openly. "Open Table," or some such variation, feels to me an excellent foil for a growing homogeneity of exclusiveness and an increasingly hostile posture to those who harbor some ideas that differ from their claimed orthodoxy. (I do not acknowledge any person's claim that they know the Mind of God, or can speak for God in judgement, or claim they can discern the "tares" from the field of "wheat" and can therefore declare the "true believers" from the rest. There is no authority besides God. Anyone who tries to take on such authority is following the footsteps of the "King of Babylon." (Isaiah 14:12-20) It didn't end well for him.
Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
“Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?” (Isaiah 40:13)
“Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?” (Job 41:11)
For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen. ~ Romans 11:33-36
Who or what is a more accurate "avatar" (example) of God? Nebuchadnezzar, who was a King who could "make the earth shake" with his mighty armies? Laying waste to any who opposed him? Or, say, David, who tended sheep and played the lyre singing praises to the Lord; called "a man after God's own heart." (Acts 13:22) We can see which of the two is more like Christ. But many conservatives are unpersuaded by a depiction of God that is "just" about social justice and love and feeding the poor and feeling good... "Hippies!" They will remind you immediately that just as important as Love is to God, so is Justice. In fact, I have heard many arguments (some more or less twisted like a pretzel) that "God's Love" = "God's Justice" to the point that "Eternal Damnation" = "God's Love" for those who chose the everlasting lake of fire instead of heaven. See? It all makes perfect sense.
Here are my reasons for frequenting this particular sub-forum more than all the others combined:
1) I would be considered a heretic (at the least) by most fundamentalists and conservative Christians.
2) I believe the Word of God exists in Scripture, but not all of what is called Scripture is the Word of God. Further, I believe that the Word of God can be found in places that are not called Scripture. (IOW, I do not ascribe to Luther's 'Sola Scriptura,' 'Tota Scriptura.' Anymore.)
3) I have serious concerns about the Council of Nicaea's claim of authority to establish canon. Where in Scripture does this authority come from, or is even mentioned? Yet the work of this council has had an immeasurable impact on the organized Christian Religion the world over. I'm not saying I reject it, for how can I know? That alone makes me a heretic.
4) The Book of Revelations is, to me, opaque for the most part. I cannot claim to understand what John was trying to say (I don't think he understood a lot of it), and I would not presume to declare myself a part of any group separated by the various theories regarding details of Christian Eschatology. Premillennialism (Pre-Tribulation/Dispensationalist, Mid-Tribulation/Pre-wrath, Post-Tribulation)? Postmillennialism (Reconstructionist, Revivalist)? Amillennialism? Preterism (full or partial)? Futurism? Historicism? Idealism? I have no clue, so I do not disparage anyone who believes in any of these interpretations. I just have a tiny problem with the "certitude" that some people have about this area of doctrine.
5) I am married to a fellow Christian and we have been together for 22 years, and will be for the duration. However, no matter how much we knew we were going to live our lives together, the marriage itself was a bit of a formality allowed only after a Supreme Court decision in 2014. This makes me anathema to most of CF. Even here in the liberal Christian sub-forum, I was warned by a liberal moderator to never mention the topic. Though it is part of our life, and we do not shy away from it in prayer, God knows us and our hearts, we are aware of the dangers of possibly putting a stumbling block in the way of young Christians so we do not speak of it unless asked. Many people tell me that I am "self-loathing" and in some closet. I could be nothing but self-loathing were it not for the grace of God. (For a large number of reasons.) I do not seek to hide my life behind a lie, honesty is God's way not lies. But as I said, Paul warned about stumbling blocks that can be unintentionally left in front of others for whom Christ has died, often through carelessness. He said it is acceptable to eat meat that had been sacrificed to an idol, just give thanks for it to God, and try not to "get in other people's faces" about it.
6) Facebook pages are filled with trolls. Not to mention it is almost impossible to have a meaningful exchange of ideas on that platform. That is not how it was built nor what it is for.
7) I don't want to leave the fellowship of believers. Not that I feel that CF is the only fellowship, but I have felt a bit uneasy about the pendulum swinging too far the other way for many liberals who have had bad emotional experiences with conservative Christians. To the point that they are happier scrapping the whole thing and just calling themselves atheist. In fact, it is rather in vogue these days to reject and denounce Christianity as a political exercise. I feel personally that this has more to do with many conservative's abuse of their religion, to make it into a bludgeoning weapon to use against those who are coming up and inevitably changing the status quo (as happens with most all generations as they come of age). The "Church" (in this sense) I believe is failing these people. They represent more and more an anachronism to younger people. When they see the rank hypocrisy of so-called Christians in positions of leadership, it doesn't bode well for new converts. Can anyone be more viciously judgemental than Christians? I'm sure, but I don't happen to know anyone. I found that out early on when I started here at CF and posted in some other sub-forums, and boy did I step in it. (And I wasn't talking about anything so controversial as this post.) It almost made me scratch CF off my list and my bookmarks. Then I found this sub-forum and I felt much differently. Still, I need more than just the liberal take on Scripture sometimes. I understand the desire to focus on Christ's words, and simple but profound ideas like "God is Love." But I want to ask: what sacrifices are required for believers here in this world? Every time I've asked a person who says they are a liberal Christian, I get the answer, "none!" I know this is not true, as Christ's own words make clear. Every single time I pass a homeless person on the road, I choose to either keep driving, or stop the car and meet them. I have a choice every time to try and offer help or to ignore the person. But isn't that person among the least of us? The bottom rung of the social ladder? The one whom Christ identifies with more than those who are doing better? Every time I pull over and try to help, I am doing this to Christ. Likewise, every time I choose not to pull over and help, I am passing Christ on the side of the road! This is not what I am called to do! What kind of sinner am I that I know that part of Scripture, yet I do not always try to help? What kind of privilege and grace and love have I been the undeserving recipient of, and yet I cannot find it within my selfish, lazy, gratification-seeking body of death to try and help someone in a position that I used to be in myself. Lord forgive me.
8) I've studied Ecclesiastes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Though the poll is closed, I think, and only a few people even noticed it. I just noticed it today!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------