Men with long hair, woman with no head covering

Catherineanne

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I, as a medial professional here on Maui, have a group of shaven head female Hindu monks whom all love me. I always tell them, "If you grew out your hair, you could get more dates!" :)

'As a medical professional', stop saying that to women. It is beyond unprofessional and well and truly creepy.

Other people's choice of hair style is absolutely none of your business. None.
 
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dqhall

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What ancient society are you talking about?



Again, what ancient society are you talking about? Women have ALWAYS worked just as hard as men. Always. See Proverbs 31.

The whole concept of women sitting around doing nothing but look pretty is a very, very modern phenomenon.



Again, what society are you talking about?



Good grief.
If you look at photos of statues of the Caesars, you might see they had short hair. They were able to afford haircuts.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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And we all disregard entire chunks of Scripture. Unless you happen to have cut off your own right hand or plucked out your own eyes (which I do not recommend).

No we all don't disregard entire chunks. Instead we seek to understand what it means. After a bit of prayer and asking the Lord for understanding you too will find that the Lord does not actually mean for you to literally cut off your hand. But instead he may be saying to cut off the action that that hand is doing....smh
 
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Peter J Barban

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As a Bible teacher, I take Paul's teaching seriously. Over the past couple of years, I have been taking off my hat to pray. I teach what Pauls says about men and women regarding head covering, leadership, etc.

Years ago, I was of the opinion that I could decide which of Paul's teachings were applicable for today and which one's spiritually mature people (like me) could put aside. Then, as I prepared to teach on these "Hot Topics", I realized that it was unsafe to teach my view. And if it was unsafe, it was probably wrong. So I humbled myself and submitted to the word of God.

Since then I have always taught that we should follow everything in the NT. Now, because of the hardness of people's hearts, I don't pressure anyone to follow this Bible teaching. But there is a lost blessing for those who decide their wisdom is greater than Paul's.

I have taught/preached these things 3 times and there has never been any controversy. Most Christians appreciate hearing the word of God proclaimed boldly and clearly, even when it goes against their culture.
 
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Haipule

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'As a medical professional', stop saying that to women. It is beyond unprofessional and well and truly creepy.

Other people's choice of hair style is absolutely none of your business. None.
Relax, I was setting up a joke. I am an optician. They came to me for glasses and their eye care needs, repairs, adjustments, etc.

"Other people's choice of hair style is absolutely none of your business."

I think I established that fact in my post: dispelling all erroneous teaching of hair style and gave a logical interpretation of a difficult passage to translate. I went to Paul's other writing of similar vocabulary and saw that he was talking about shame in a playful manner.

Paul said that men should not speak before an assembly as if having shame. And women should not speak with out a mouth filter. I won't say anymore.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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FWIW, there is a similar thread on the GT board that is still active:

1 Corinthians "Long hair on male is shameful" but Jesus had long hair???
1 Corinthians "Long hair on male is shameful" but Jesus had long hair???

Reve 9:7 mentions this army that hair like women, and coincidentally, Isaiah 3:12 happens to mention women ruling over God's people. Any idea what that is symbolizing and could it be talking about the corrupt Jewish rulers Jesus chastised?

The Dress of the Pharisees (Bible History Online)
Dress, Clothing, and AppearanceIt would have been difficult to proceed far either in Galilee or in Judaea without coming into contact with an altogether peculiar and striking individuality, differing from all around, and which would at once arrest attention. This was the Pharisee. Courted or feared, shunned or flattered, reverently looked up to or laughed at, he was equally a power everywhere, both ecclesiastically and politically, as belonging to the most influential, the most zealous, and the most closely-connected religions fraternity, which in the pursuit of its objects spared neither time nor trouble, feared no danger, and shrunk from no consequences...........

Isaiah 3:12 O My people! Their oppressors are children, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray And confuse the direction of your paths.

Reve 9:
7 And the locusts looked like horses prepared for battle, with something like crowns of gold on their heads, and faces like the faces of men
8 They had hair like that of women, and teeth like those of lions.

........................................................
images
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Actually, Jesus probably DID cover his head every time he prayed. He was a Jew, after all, and Jews do not pray uncovered.
Now I find that very plausible as Paul was Jewish.

I actually prefer to look at commentaries on the topic, and especially ones that can decipher the Greek.

Bible hub commentaries is a favorite of mine:

1 Corinthians 11:4 Commentaries: Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head.

κατὰ κεφ. ἔχων] sc[1759] τί. See Fritzsche, Conject. I. p. 36. Buttmann, neut. Gr. p. 127 [E. T. 146]. Having (something) down from the head, i.e. with a head-covering. The Jewish men prayed with the head covered, nay, even with a veil (Tallith) before the face. See Lightfoot, Horae, p. 210 f. Michaelis, Anm. p. 244 f. Hellenic usage again required that the head should be bare on sacred occasions (Grotius on 1 Corinthians 11:2; Hermann, gottesd. Alterth. § 36. 18 f.), while the Romans veiled themselves at sacrifices (Serv. a[1760] Aen. iii. 407; Dougt. Anal. II. p. 116). The Hellenic usage had naturally become the prevalent one in the Hellenic churches, and had also commended itself to the discriminating eye of the apostle of the Gentiles as so entirely in accordance with the divinely appointed position of the man (1 Corinthians 11:3), that for the man to cover his head seemed to him to cast dishonour on that position.................

22. 1 Corinthians 11:1-16 - Its Issues and Implications

WHAT KIND OF HEAD COVERING IS REQUIRED BY PAUL?

The Greek expressions used of the woman’s head covering seem to indicate that something more than a piece of cloth (or a hat) resting on the head is required. Not only should something be on the head, but something should hang down from the head to cover the hair:

… what Paul had in mind is a veil which covers the whole head and in particular conceals all the hair; something worn on top of the head like a present-day cap or hat does not really come within the scope of his argument.156

… it is probable that Paul is speaking of wearing a head covering of some kind, such as a shawl. That a shawl rather than a full veil is in Paul’s mind is indicated by the word covering (peribolaios) in 11:15, which is not the usual word for veil but probably refers to a wrap-around. The evidence in favor of this position is as follows: (1) The verb translated as “cover” in the NIV (katakalypto) occurs three times in verses 6-7, and related cognate words occur in verses 5 and 13. These words most often refer to a covering of some kind. For example, the angels who saw the glory of Yahweh in the temple covered their faces (Isaiah 6:2). Judah thought Tamar, his daughter-in-law, was a harlot because she covered her face (Genesis 38:15). Since the word almost universally means “to cover” or “to hide,” the text is probably referring to a hair covering of some kind. … Esther 6:12 (LXX) employs the same expression found in verse four, kata kephales, of Haman, who hurried home mourning, covering his head in shame. He probably used part of his garment to do this. … To sum up: the custom recommended here is a head covering of some kind, probably a shawl.157

The Error of the Long-haired Jesus

Such a command had been in effect since the time of Moses. Whereas the King James Version translates Leviticus 10:6 as “uncover not your heads,” the Jewish authorities always knew that this should be rendered Let the hair of your heads not grow long (see Rashi on Leviticus 10:6; and it is so translated in The Jerusalem Bible, Koren ed.).

This command of God was given again in the time of Ezekiel. “They shall not shave their heads [that is, to be bald], or let their locks grow LONG they shall only trim the hair of their heads” (Ezekiel 44:20 RSV).
 
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HighCherub

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Again, what ancient society are you talking about? Women have ALWAYS worked just as hard as men. Always.

No more true then as it is now. Women are an extreme minority in agricultural and blue collar work forces because they don't have the strength or endurance.

Some woman toiled hard then, and they were the poor ones who didn't have a choice.

Stop hurling around your feminism, I wasn't even speaking on women specifically. The Bible is patriarchal, stop trying to make it seem different ^_^

Good grief.

No, you. Seriously, your post is just plain unnecessary.
 
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Haipule

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Having (something) down from the head, i.e. with a head-covering.
How can kata kephalEs echOn possibly be translated literally as "[Having something] down from [the] head"? And why would that make any sense to the Corinthians who were not Jewish. And why would he teach them to be Jewish after his scathing rebuke of Peter in Galatians?

I'll work on Paul's metaphors and humor some more and get back to you.
 
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AlexDTX

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Hi Brothers and Sisters,

1 Corinthians 11:3-16
An additional thought on what I told you came to me this morning.

During the time of Paul's writing Corinthians, the believers met in homes. The Greeks did not copy the practice of the Jews, who met in synagogues, until the Greek orators, who made their living talking, became Christians and saw this as a way to generate personal revenue preaching the Gospel to the saints on a weekly basis. This meant that the hosts of the house churches were the natural authorities since it was their home people met in. Naturally the husband should be the host, but, apparently some did not take the mantel, which fell upon the wives. This, then, would be why Paul first begins his discussion of body ministry with the husband and wife in the order of God's creation. The rest of chapter 11 was the agape meal, possibly a pot luck or perhaps the family fed their friends, I don't know, and the rudeness of those rich enough to eat at home who penny pinched by eating the food provided instead.
 
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RDKirk

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As a Bible teacher, I take Paul's teaching seriously. Over the past couple of years, I have been taking off my hat to pray. I teach what Pauls says about men and women regarding head covering, leadership, etc.

Years ago, I was of the opinion that I could decide which of Paul's teachings were applicable for today and which one's spiritually mature people (like me) could put aside. Then, as I prepared to teach on these "Hot Topics", I realized that it was unsafe to teach my view. And if it was unsafe, it was probably wrong. So I humbled myself and submitted to the word of God.

Since then I have always taught that we should follow everything in the NT. Now, because of the hardness of people's hearts, I don't pressure anyone to follow this Bible teaching. But there is a lost blessing for those who decide their wisdom is greater than Paul's.

I have taught/preached these things 3 times and there has never been any controversy. Most Christians appreciate hearing the word of God proclaimed boldly and clearly, even when it goes against their culture.

More important, I think, is to make sure one understands what Paul was actually teaching. Paul was not instructing hair length, Paul was instructing that there must be order and propriety in worship.

So even if all the women in the congregation have long hair and all the men in the congregation have short hair, if they're all standing on the pews and howling like wolves, they missed Paul's point.

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
 
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Peter J Barban

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More important, I think, is to make sure one understands what Paul was actually teaching. Paul was not instructing hair length, Paul was instructing that there must be order and propriety in worship.

So even if all the women in the congregation have long hair and all the men in the congregation have short hair, if they're all standing on the pews and howling like wolves, they missed Paul's point.
I certainly agree with you on the importance of order and propriety in worship. Unfortunately, a lot of people's "deeper understanding" is just a rebellious excuse to disregard the word of God. And in my experience, this happens much more often than people howling on the pews.

Based on the word of God, Abraham offered his son in sacrifice on a mountain and God said, "Now I know that you fear God". If instead, Abraham stayed at home content with a healthy son and deeper understanding of the meaning of sacrifice, he would not be righteous.
 
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Haipule

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I certainly agree with you on the importance of order and propriety in worship. Unfortunately, a lot of people's "deeper understanding" is just a rebellious excuse to disregard the word of God. And in my experience, this happens much more often than people howling on the pews.

Based on the word of God, Abraham offered his son in sacrifice on a mountain and God said, "Now I know that you fear God". If instead, Abraham stayed at home content with a healthy son and deeper understanding of the meaning of sacrifice, he would not be righteous.
Like the post, but disagree with the final point. The trust of Abraham, given to us in Genesis 15:6, was that he(Abraham) trusted what God had said to him, that he(Abraham) would have a son, according to context: which God equated as righteousness. All "faith"(trust): God will always equate as righteousness. As well as, all of the righteousness(perfection of God; seen or, unseen) of God we pursuit: God will always equate as "faith". That passage had nothing to do with his son Isaac.
 
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Peter J Barban

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Like the post, but disagree with the final point. The trust of Abraham, given to us in Genesis 15:6, was that he(Abraham) trusted what God had said to him, that he(Abraham) would have a son, according to context: which God equated as righteousness. All "faith"(trust): God will always equate as righteousness. As well as, all of the righteousness(perfection of God; seen or, unseen) of God we pursuit: God will always equate as "faith". That passage had nothing to do with his son Isaac.
Thanks for pointing that out. I agree with your understanding of scripture. My use of righteousness was more in the context of James 2:17-19
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."

It is my fault for not expressly referring to James' passage on faith and deeds in my earlier post. So with all that now openly said, "Higher understanding" without obedience = dead faith.
 
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Haipule

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Thanks for pointing that out. I agree with your understanding of scripture. My use of righteousness was more in the context of James 2:17-19
17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."

It is my fault for not expressly referring to James' passage on faith and deeds in my earlier post. So with all that now openly said, "Higher understanding" without obedience = dead faith.
We will get there my GOOD friend! No matter what! And no matter what anyone says, be it God's loving laymen like me(maybe you: I don't know) and many others(you will know them by their love). Or, in spite of/because of, some clergy genius(never happened before). Nothing, no one, and absolute NOTHING stands before you and our God! NOTHING, NO ONE!

YOU, your life, is the MOST important thing to all of us Christians! And, all of us, should be the most important thing to each other, "all", and you!

One body, one Lord, one faith, one baptism-effect, one God in all, of-all, and through all!

IT IS COMING! Keep standing tall!

John said, "What is that which conquers the world?" Your faith, your faith, your faith, OUR FAITH! Which is the sum total of what we have breathed in of the God-breathed Scripture which we have learned though study, through life-lessons(revelation), through trials, through hardships, through glories into trusting Him--our Good Shepherd!

Absolutely nothing trumps our life in Him--NOTHING! Not even Scripture! And that, whether known, or unknown, misunderstood, taught as nonsense! Anyone can read Scripture! Yet, how many have lived, like Moses, like many, before, during and after Scripture independent of down stream theologies that dissipate us into an ocean of nothingness! I'm not just taking to you! But, everyone here whom is sick to death of downstream mentality!

Yes my good friend--dead, useless, meaningless, unloving words which could NEVER be--God's Faith which is God's Word!

By the way, before you ask: I am from earth and my leader is Jesus! :)
 
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