Should Christians support Rebuilding of Jerusalem Third Temple.

Should Christians support Jerusalem Third Temple?

  • Yes... the words of Ezekiel must come to pass.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • No.... it will lead to the rise of the Anti-Christ fellow.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • Yes.... living waters will flow from the restored Third Temple.

    Votes: 2 2.8%
  • No... Christians must not support animal sacrifice.

    Votes: 38 52.8%
  • I am not certain but I will research this question further.

    Votes: 9 12.5%
  • No... this could cause a war to break out.

    Votes: 5 6.9%

  • Total voters
    72

ToBeLoved

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But Men are not...

Scripture teaches that "Jews" that didn't follow the Torah were excommunicated from among the people of God and were considered heathen (Ex 12:14-15,19; Ex 31:14). Such a person was at that point considered a heathen and not a child of Abraham.

That bears repeating:

There is no such thing as "Jews" that didn't follow the Torah. Such "Jews" were excommunicated from among the people of God and were considered heathen (Ex 12:14-15,19; Ex 31:14). Such a person was at that point considered a heathen and not a child of Abraham.

Today's Jews don't follow the mandatory feasts of Moses. Why don't they do what Moses commanded? Because today's "jews" don't follow the Old Covenant whatsoever, as I have been saying. They don't have anything in common with the ancient Hebrews, nor do they even have their bloodlines, so far as anyone knows. The tribal system went extinct in the first century, and it did so precisely because the Jewish Messiah came and made the faith of Abraham universal to all people groups. In contrast with the Covenant of Moses, The Messiah's Covenant detached from race, from animal sacrifices, from the Temple, from the priestly class of Aaron, and from any earthly city--and it delivered this NEW judaism decades before the OLD judaism went extinct at AD 70. This proves that Christianity was of divine origin. They prophetically foresaw that the Old system was about to vanish (Heb 8:13) and history proves they were true prophets.

Acts 3:22-24. The Rock crushed them (1 Pet 2:7-8/Mt 21:43-45), for they rejected the time of God's visitation (Luke 19:40-44). And this is the same pattern that took place in Isaiah's day and in Elijah's day -- i.e., the REMNANT of the jews is true Israel and the rest are destroyed and do not have any heritage (Rom 9:27/Rom 11:2-5).

Genesis 12:3. The true faith was only TEMPORARILY sequestered to one family's kin [i.e., Abraham's blood descendants]. But the Christ came and made it universal for all the families of the earth. And the Christ's NEW covenant with Israel intentionally detached from lineage, Temple, priestly-class of Aaron, and any particular earthly city.

Romans 2:25-29 shows us how God sees true Jewishness. Namely, a genetic jew, if disobedient to God's will, is viewed by God as an uncircumcised pagan (v.25). Meanwhile the genetic gentile, if obedient to God's will, is viewed by God as a circumcised Jew (v.26), despite his lack of family genetics and the outward marks. Paul teaches that true Jewishness, as God counts it, is based on a man's inward disposition of faith and obedience to God (v.28-29). From this passage we see that You and I are true Jews in God's eyes, whereas outward-only jews like the High Priest Caiaphas surrender their status as Jews in God's eyes. Such jewish persons are uncircumcised pagans, in God's eyes.
The Old Covenant was a covenant with a people group. Not individuals.

And please show Biblically that the people who are DNA descendants of the Patriarch's are not held in the Abrahamic Covenant.
 
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miknik5

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who can supply the credentials to support their claim of a pure bloodline?

Because that was the requirement in the time of Ezra for a "priest before GOD" to have any part in the building or workings in the temple

If they couldn't supply the proof, they could do nothing until they could
 
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parousia70

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Your post implying favoritism over the moslems who you claim so show "more honor" to Jesus over the Jewish ignorant unbelieving who said something that I care not to repeat

Not exactly... I mentioned that Islam reveres Jesus as a prophet of God, while modern Judaism deplores Jesus as a punished sinner.

I love the Muslims and the Jews as human beings equally.
 
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parousia70

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If God does not change, then Israel are still God's chosen people.

Right, Obedient believing Israel are still His people... Jesus, Mary< Joseph, the 12, the 70, the 3000 on Pentecost and ALL faithful Jews who followed the Messiah... they along with the Grafted in Gentiles ARE God's Chosen Israel, YES.

And Peter does not call Christians the same thing. God's chosen people is a particular phrase with meaning. The term particular people, is then qualified by the next verse "Which in time past were NOT a people, but are now the people of God".

Again, He most certainly does.
At Mt. Sinai, Yahweh said Israel was the "kingly priesthood," the "holy nation," the "peculiar people of God ONLY IF THEY OBEYED HIM Exodus 19:5-7:

5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”
7 So Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before them all these words which the Lord commanded him.


And St. Peter indeed, plainly claims that the christians are this very people: "Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people...Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God" (1 Peter 2:9-10).

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

Not "one of the" peoples of God, but Christians (Believing Jews with Gentiles grafted in) are indeed THE people of God.
 
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parousia70

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Almost everything before Christ is a shadow to Christ. The true circumcision is faith and not perfect obedience.
So far so good :)

However, you will need to write out those verses that particular refer to them as the circumcism so I can see them.

I did Write them out... did you read my post?

Here it is again:
"Beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus" (Phil 3:2-3).

The Church, the Nazarene sect of Biblical Judaism, is the ONLY entity through which Covenant Israel Continues...
Conversely, you seem to have a very odd idea of Just who IS Israel.

You count the disobedient sons of Abraham as "Israel" while discounting entirely the faithful sons of Abraham!

The mark of faithful obedience was so central to the identity of God's chosen Israel, that most major figures of the New Testament preached concerning who is reckoned as a true Israelite.

St. Paul said that when the nation was in mass apostasy, the TRUE Israel was carried on not through the lineages of the wicked sons but rather through the OBEDIENT FEW (called the "remnant"), such as was true in Isaiah's day (Romans 9:27-29) and Elijah's day (Romans 11:3-5).

Peter says the same thing at Acts 3:22-24, where it is clear that the wicked jews who refuse Christ were to be "cut off from among the People of Israel" while the faithful jews (John the Baptist, Joseph and Mary, the Twelve, the Seventy, the three thousand on Pentecost day, and many other jews) were the True Faithful Israel.

Just as the Jewish church abode with Moses in the wilderness (Acts 7:37-38), so Jesus had HIS jewish church (Mt. 16:18-19). And within a few years after Pentecost, the faithful Israel learned how to start accepting both jewish and also gentile followers from all over the empire to convert into their Nation (1 Peter 2:9-10; Matthew 21:40-45). And so the tiny remnant True Israel grew into a worldwide Judaism living under the promised NEW covenant of Israel's Messiah.

And so it was also in Moses' day, when the countless thousands of wicked sons of Abraham were slain in the wilderness while the faithful sons of Abraham survived and got to enter the Promised Land.

We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

Did you get that?

We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

Scripture makes it clear that any individual can join him/herself to Christ's Israel via obedience to Messiah and His New Covenant. But there is no longer a "natural Israel," for no human on earth today knows if he/she has any genetic link to any Hebrew of bible times. Indeed today the likelyhood that everyone on earth has some Abrahamic DNA in them is 100%. However, The tribal-family system went extinct nearly 2000 years ago, at God's perfect timing when Messiah came. Once Messiah came, there was no longer any need for a racial link to father Abraham, and so the family tribes who were not destroyed at the coming of the lord of the Vineyard in 70AD (Matthew 21:33-45), assimilated into the surrounding populations. Israel of the Messiah didn't require racial preference, and so that ancestral link was completely, forever, dissolved and passed away in human history.

Why, in the face of this mountain of Biblical evidence, you still insist that the wicked, disobedient sons of Abraham are to be counted as True Israel instead of the Faithful obedient ones, remains a mystery.
 
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miknik5

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Not exactly... I mentioned that Islam reveres Jesus as a prophet of God, while modern Judaism deplores Jesus as a punished sinner.

I love the Muslims and the Jews as human beings equally.
Okay
 
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Hethatreadethit

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I am not getting what you are trying to say.

The last paragraph, was not meant to be there. I wrote this reply to discuss this scripture:

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Some people have a problem with this scripture or don't understand it, but I do understand it, but it is quite involved, It would be my pleasure to make known and discuss this great revealing with you,if your an open mind.
Sincerely:
Hethatreadethit
 
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Hethatreadethit

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So far so good :)



I did Write them out... did you read my post?

Here it is again:
"Beware of the false circumcision; for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus" (Phil 3:2-3).

The Church, the Nazarene sect of Biblical Judaism, is the ONLY entity through which Covenant Israel Continues...
Conversely, you seem to have a very odd idea of Just who IS Israel.

You count the disobedient sons of Abraham as "Israel" while discounting entirely the faithful sons of Abraham!

The mark of faithful obedience was so central to the identity of God's chosen Israel, that most major figures of the New Testament preached concerning who is reckoned as a true Israelite.

St. Paul said that when the nation was in mass apostasy, the TRUE Israel was carried on not through the lineages of the wicked sons but rather through the OBEDIENT FEW (called the "remnant"), such as was true in Isaiah's day (Romans 9:27-29) and Elijah's day (Romans 11:3-5).

Peter says the same thing at Acts 3:22-24, where it is clear that the wicked jews who refuse Christ were to be "cut off from among the People of Israel" while the faithful jews (John the Baptist, Joseph and Mary, the Twelve, the Seventy, the three thousand on Pentecost day, and many other jews) were the True Faithful Israel.

Just as the Jewish church abode with Moses in the wilderness (Acts 7:37-38), so Jesus had HIS jewish church (Mt. 16:18-19). And within a few years after Pentecost, the faithful Israel learned how to start accepting both jewish and also gentile followers from all over the empire to convert into their Nation (1 Peter 2:9-10; Matthew 21:40-45). And so the tiny remnant True Israel grew into a worldwide Judaism living under the promised NEW covenant of Israel's Messiah.

And so it was also in Moses' day, when the countless thousands of wicked sons of Abraham were slain in the wilderness while the faithful sons of Abraham survived and got to enter the Promised Land.

We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

Did you get that?

We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

Scripture makes it clear that any individual can join him/herself to Christ's Israel via obedience to Messiah and His New Covenant. But there is no longer a "natural Israel," for no human on earth today knows if he/she has any genetic link to any Hebrew of bible times. Indeed today the likelyhood that everyone on earth has some Abrahamic DNA in them is 100%. However, The tribal-family system went extinct nearly 2000 years ago, at God's perfect timing when Messiah came. Once Messiah came, there was no longer any need for a racial link to father Abraham, and so the family tribes who were not destroyed at the coming of the lord of the Vineyard in 70AD (Matthew 21:33-45), assimilated into the surrounding populations. Israel of the Messiah didn't require racial preference, and so that ancestral link was completely, forever, dissolved and passed away in human history.

Why, in the face of this mountain of Biblical evidence, you still insist that the wicked, disobedient sons of Abraham are to be counted as True Israel instead of the Faithful obedient ones, remains a mystery.

You count the disobedient sons of Abraham as "Israel" while discounting entirely the faithful sons of Abraham!

I would like to know who the obedient sons are NOW.
 
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miknik5

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You count the disobedient sons of Abraham as "Israel" while discounting entirely the faithful sons of Abraham!

I would like to know who the obedient sons are NOW.
Those whom GOD will call who will hear HIS VOICE so as to turn and be healed

Do you know who the disobedient tares are from the obedient wheat
 
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Hethatreadethit

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Those whom GOD will call who will hear HIS VOICE so as to turn and be healed

Do you know who the disobedient tares are from the obedient wheat

I do not know of any organized movement or obedient wheat, oats or barley.
This I will say, that when the restoration does come, there will be intense persecution because of the light. That is the revealing light. The light is brought forth when God executes judgment and the manifestation of the truth (the Gospel)

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Zec 8:16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
 
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miknik5

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I do not know of any organized movement or obedient wheat, oats or barley.
This I will say, that when the restoration does come, there will be intense persecution because of the light. That is the revealing light. The light is brought forth when God executes judgment and the manifestation of the truth (the Gospel)

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Zec 8:16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
Preach the Gospel to all men not withholding the TRUTH from any and not being selective in your light/love
 
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ToBeLoved

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Right, Obedient believing Israel are still His people... Jesus, Mary< Joseph, the 12, the 70, the 3000 on Pentecost and ALL faithful Jews who followed the Messiah... they along with the Grafted in Gentiles ARE God's Chosen Israel, YES.



Again, He most certainly does.
At Mt. Sinai, Yahweh said Israel was the "kingly priesthood," the "holy nation," the "peculiar people of God ONLY IF THEY OBEYED HIM Exodus 19:5-7:

5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”
7 So Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before them all these words which the Lord commanded him.


And St. Peter indeed, plainly claims that the christians are this very people: "Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people...Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God" (1 Peter 2:9-10).

9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

Not "one of the" peoples of God, but Christians (Believing Jews with Gentiles grafted in) are indeed THE people of God.

The Gentiles are not God's chosen people.

Gentiles were not chosen by God as a people group to be a chosen people all followers of Christ who are Gentiles are saved.

Also, Gentiles can never take their place. They have that designation forever.
 
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Hank77

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Right, Obedient believing Israel are still His people... Jesus, Mary< Joseph, the 12, the 70, the 3000 on Pentecost and ALL faithful Jews who followed the Messiah... they along with the Grafted in Gentiles ARE God's Chosen Israel, YES.
What about the OT saints that obeyed God and looked forward to the coming of their Redeemer, such as Job, Noah, David, Boaz, Ruth, Rahab....
They are also the Israel of God.
 
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parousia70

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parousia70

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The Gentiles are not God's chosen people.

Somebody forgot to tell that to Peter:
"Ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people...Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God" (1 Peter 2:9-10).

Also, Gentiles can never take their place. They have that designation forever.


Well, somebody forgot to tell that to Paul for Paul plainly says "If YOU are Christ's, then YOU are Abraham's seed" (Gal 3:29). As Paul also says elsewhere at Romans 4:16: "For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, to the end that the promise may be sure TO ALL THE SEED, NOT ONLY TO THAT WHICH IS OF THE LAW, BUT ALSO TO THATH WHICH IS OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM, WHO IS THE FATHER OF US ALL."

Gal 3:29 plainly says "If you belong to Christ, then YOU are indeed true descendants of Abraham, and are heirs in fulfilment of the promise."

How can you yourself NOT be counted among Israel when St. Paul calls you "Abraham's seed" (Rom 4:16/Gal 3:29)? How can you NOTbe counted among Israel when St. Peter calls you "the peculiar people, royal priesthood, holy nation" (1 Pet 2:9-10), the name given to Israel at Mt. Sinai (Ex 19:5-6)? How can you NOT be counted among Israel when you are the true "circumcision" (Phil 3:2-3)? How can you NOT be counted among Israel when Paul calls you the circumcision-less Israel of God (Gal 6:15-16)? How can you NOT be counted among Israel when Paul says you are "no longer strangers and sojourners but fellow citizens" (Eph 2:19)? How can you NOT be counted among Israel when Paul calls you "a Jew" (Rom 2:27-29)?

And how can you ascribe to disobedient jews the status as God's beloved people when Jesus says: "I know the blasphemy of them who say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of satan" (Rev 2:9/3:9)?

Read this: "Ye were...aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise...[but Christ] hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us...Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens."(Eph 2:12,19)

Gentile converts to christianity go from being "foreigners of the commonwealth of Israel" to "fellow citizens."

The Israelite apostles of the Jewish Messiah say I am a Jew (Rom 2:27-29), say I am "Abraham's seed" (Rom 4:16/Gal 3:29), say I am "the peculiar people, royal priesthood, holy nation" (1 Pet 2:9-10), say I am the circumcision-less Israel of God (Gal 6:15-16), say I am "no longer a stranger but a fellow citizen of Israel" (Eph 2:19), say I was once not a people but now am the people of God (1 Pet 2:10) and say I am the circumcision (Phil 3:2-3).

Each and every one of these statements takes a key identifier/distinctive of Israel and labels me and you with it. Meanwhile, Christ calls the disobedient genetic sons of Abraham the "sons of satan" and the "synagogue of satan" (Rev 2:9/John 8:39-47), and St. John says that those who deny the Son have no claim whatsoever to the Father (1 Jn 2:23)

Why are you teaching the exact opposite of this?
 
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Hank77

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Having as much Abrahamic DNA in us as any modern Jew, the obedient sons today are You and Me.
For me that has nothing to do with it.
I simply believe the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles.
Jesus said He had two folds that He would bring together as one flock with one Shepard. He fulfilled this prophecy.
Joh 10:15 according as the Father doth know me, and I know the Father, and my life I lay down for the sheep,
Joh 10:16 and other sheep I have that are not of this fold, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock--one shepherd.


There are many Christians who don't even realize that their eschatology denies that this happened. You cannot have Jews living on a physical earth and everyone else in heaven and say that is one flock with one Shepard.

I have a Jewish Christian friend; he asked this question. "Where does that put me, on earth or in heaven?" He said that scripture doesn't teach any such separation, that we are all the Israel of God.
 
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Hank77

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I do not consider myself worthy, but I do hope for the restoration and the power of God.
None of us are worthy. The only human that was ever worthy was Jesus the Christ. All the rest of us are just hanging on to that Jew's garment hem.

Zec 8:23 Thus said Yehovah of Hosts: In those days take hold do ten men of all languages of the nations, Yea, they have taken hold on the skirt of a man, a Jew, saying: We go with you, for we heard God is with you!

Remember the woman with the issue of blood, who knew that if she could just touch the hem of Jesus' garment she would be healed.
 
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