Is Mary God?

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amariselle

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Show me the verse that says "Queen of Heaven" or I will not believe.

Show me the verse that says "Mediatrix" or I will not believe.

You already know perfectly well that none of those terms are contained in the Scripture. And if someone attempts to show you where the ideas are implicit in Scripture, you will reject them. Nor will you make any earnest attempt to try to understand them. In fact, you have already been provided with explanations numerous times and you have already rejected them numerous times. There is absolutely nothing that anyone could do to get you to budge on your position one inch, and both you and everyone else here knows it.

You simply want to debate on, and on, and on . . .

That is what we call "obsessing".

You are not required to respond to my posts you know (neither is anyone else). As for the ideas being "implicit in Scripture", they are not. If Jesus had wanted us to venerate Mary, He would have told us, we would have such teachings in the Bible. Why would He leave something like that out?

Anyway, as I have said, responding to posts is obviously optional. This is a public forum, meant for discussion, the topic is Mary.

As I said, you've made it abundantly clear what you think of me.

I will not be responding to you further.

God bless
 
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PeaceB

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You are not required to respond to my posts you know (neither is anyone else). As for the ideas being "implicit in Scripture", they are not. If Jesus had wanted us to venerate Mary, He would have told us, we would have such teachings in the Bible. Why would He leave something like that out?

Anyway, as I have said, responding to posts is obviously optional. This is a public forum, meant for discussion, the topic is Mary.

As I said, you've made it abundantly clear what you think of me.

I will not be responding to you further.

God bless
We believe that they are in the Bible. We have already provided you with Scripture and explanations. You disagree with the information that has been provided to you. As I told you before, we interpret the Bible differently than you do. You reject our interpretations, and we reject your interpretations.
 
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Major1

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Show me the verse that says "Queen of Heaven" or I will not believe.

Show me the verse that says "Mediatrix" or I will not believe.

You already know perfectly well that none of those terms are contained in the Scripture. And if someone attempts to show you where the ideas are implicit in Scripture, you will reject them. Nor will you make any earnest attempt to try to understand them. In fact, you have already been provided with explanations numerous times and you have already rejected them numerous times. There is absolutely nothing that anyone could do to get you to budge on your position one inch, and both you and everyone else here knows it.

You simply want to debate on, and on, and on . . .

That is what we call "obsessing".

She is trying to get YOU to face the fact that you are not accepting the Word of God.

You have NOT provided Scriptures to support your religious actions in the faith you are believing in.

You have explained but explinations are not Bible facts my friend.
 
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Goatee

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amariselle, I'll answer these questions for you.

Well that is what we human beings do is it not? Have you ever been to Washington DC? Or for that matter other seats of government? Washington DC has monuments all over the place built to memorialize those giants in our history. We don't worship Abraham Lincoln, or George Washington, or even objects such as the Liberty Bell or the Constitution. We as a nation has memorized them because they are important to who we are as a nation. I should point out that when all of these things were erected the far majority of people in this country were Protestant.

Don't we have cities, counties, villages, etc. named after war heroes, and societal giants?

Quite honestly not often before, as most people pray in their homes; anyway that being said two things: 1) We believe we can pray to Mary and the other Saints because we believe they are alive, and we believe that God gave them the power to hear our prayers. I think the confusion here with non-traditional Christians is that prayer and worship has become synonyms where traditionally they were (and still are) not. We see many instances in Scripture where men and women dialoguing with angels, and we even have an incidence at our Lord's transfiguration where He Himself is dialoguing with Moses and Elijah.

Now concerning before images and statues. Christians have long used images and statue, and other sacred art as focuses in prayer. Praying in a sacred place where not just the mind but also the eyes, ears, nose, etc are engaged makes prayer so much easier for so many of us. This I believe can be proven very easily.

Concerning sacred images and statues, they are held at a higher level of respect and honor than mundane objects because of the very fact that they are seen as tied to God. This isn't unique to Christians, but you also see the same in Judaism. When reading the Old Law, there was a lot of attention given to how to handle sacred objects appropriately.

I talk about the Mediatrix of all graces. First you are right Jesus Christ alone is the mediator between God and man. This we will not disagree with you. The question is what about between Christ and man? Many, many times we Christians are asked by either our fellow Christians or even those who aren't for prayers, to assist a family member that is extremely ill or injured, or going to a job interview, or many other things. Are we in these cases acting as mediators? Of course we are. Mary also acts as a mediator between Christ her Son and man. We have seen her in Scripture mediate between Christ and man at the wedding feast of Cana. We believe Mary is in heaven with her Son, and thus being His mother has a little bit more influence with Him than we do.

Even in St. James we read: 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

So we know that the righteous' prayers are more effective than others, straight from Scripture.

The second part "of all graces", this one requires an understand of who the Blessed Mother is. The question raised is where do all graces come from? From the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ right? But Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ and because of this one can say that "all graces" come from her because Jesus came from her. See the point here? So the title Mediatrix of All Graces actually says more about us human beings sharing in Mary's ministry of mediating for our fellow man before our Lord, and says more about her Son, by whom we receive all grace.

Alright Queen of Heaven. This requires one to understand the offices of the Davidic Kingdom, which Jesus comes from the line of Davidic Kings. In Israel the queen was not the wife of the king, for the king would have multiple wives. Rather the queen (or another title used queen mother) was the mother of the king, and her importance and authority in Israel was second only to the king. The office of queen mother and its establishment is attributed to King Solomon and is found in 1 Kings: 2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.
20 Then she said, I desire one small petition of thee; I pray thee, say me not nay. And the king said unto her, Ask on, my mother: for I will not say thee nay.


So when we say Mary is the Queen of Heaven, we are also saying that Jesus her Son is King of Heaven. For if Mary is not queen of heaven then neither is Jesus king of heaven. Hopefully you see the point. The same applies to the title of Mother of God. If Mary is not the mother of God, then that means that Jesus is not God. They both go hand in hand, and you cannot separate either without falling into heresy.

I can understand. Americans and many modern folks don't bow to no one anymore. This is a custom that has ceased to exist in the modern world. In ancient and even just a few hundred years ago prostrating or bowing down yourself was common practice to display humility. Mankind has lost much of its humility, sadly.

I don't know what you would call how St. Elizabeth attitude toward here in Luke 2.

amariselle, I'll answer these questions for you.

Well that is what we human beings do is it not? Have you ever been to Washington DC? Or for that matter other seats of government? Washington DC has monuments all over the place built to memorialize those giants in our history. We don't worship Abraham Lincoln, or George Washington, or even objects such as the Liberty Bell or the Constitution. We as a nation has memorized them because they are important to who we are as a nation. I should point out that when all of these things were erected the far majority of people in this country were Protestant.

Don't we have cities, counties, villages, etc. named after war heroes, and societal giants?

Quite honestly not often before, as most people pray in their homes; anyway that being said two things: 1) We believe we can pray to Mary and the other Saints because we believe they are alive, and we believe that God gave them the power to hear our prayers. I think the confusion here with non-traditional Christians is that prayer and worship has become synonyms where traditionally they were (and still are) not. We see many instances in Scripture where men and women dialoguing with angels, and we even have an incidence at our Lord's transfiguration where He Himself is dialoguing with Moses and Elijah.

Now concerning before images and statues. Christians have long used images and statue, and other sacred art as focuses in prayer. Praying in a sacred place where not just the mind but also the eyes, ears, nose, etc are engaged makes prayer so much easier for so many of us. This I believe can be proven very easily.

Concerning sacred images and statues, they are held at a higher level of respect and honor than mundane objects because of the very fact that they are seen as tied to God. This isn't unique to Christians, but you also see the same in Judaism. When reading the Old Law, there was a lot of attention given to how to handle sacred objects appropriately.

I talk about the Mediatrix of all graces. First you are right Jesus Christ alone is the mediator between God and man. This we will not disagree with you. The question is what about between Christ and man? Many, many times we Christians are asked by either our fellow Christians or even those who aren't for prayers, to assist a family member that is extremely ill or injured, or going to a job interview, or many other things. Are we in these cases acting as mediators? Of course we are. Mary also acts as a mediator between Christ her Son and man. We have seen her in Scripture mediate between Christ and man at the wedding feast of Cana. We believe Mary is in heaven with her Son, and thus being His mother has a little bit more influence with Him than we do.

Even in St. James we read: 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

So we know that the righteous' prayers are more effective than others, straight from Scripture.

The second part "of all graces", this one requires an understand of who the Blessed Mother is. The question raised is where do all graces come from? From the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ right? But Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ and because of this one can say that "all graces" come from her because Jesus came from her. See the point here? So the title Mediatrix of All Graces actually says more about us human beings sharing in Mary's ministry of mediating for our fellow man before our Lord, and says more about her Son, by whom we receive all grace.

Alright Queen of Heaven. This requires one to understand the offices of the Davidic Kingdom, which Jesus comes from the line of Davidic Kings. In Israel the queen was not the wife of the king, for the king would have multiple wives. Rather the queen (or another title used queen mother) was the mother of the king, and her importance and authority in Israel was second only to the king. The office of queen mother and its establishment is attributed to King Solomon and is found in 1 Kings: 2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.
20 Then she said, I desire one small petition of thee; I pray thee, say me not nay. And the king said unto her, Ask on, my mother: for I will not say thee nay.


So when we say Mary is the Queen of Heaven, we are also saying that Jesus her Son is King of Heaven. For if Mary is not queen of heaven then neither is Jesus king of heaven. Hopefully you see the point. The same applies to the title of Mother of God. If Mary is not the mother of God, then that means that Jesus is not God. They both go hand in hand, and you cannot separate either without falling into heresy.

I can understand. Americans and many modern folks don't bow to no one anymore. This is a custom that has ceased to exist in the modern world. In ancient and even just a few hundred years ago prostrating or bowing down yourself was common practice to display humility. Mankind has lost much of its humility, sadly.

I don't know what you would call how St. Elizabeth attitude toward here in Luke 2.

Superb post
 
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Goatee

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I know I said I was done, but I felt that I should at least thank you for your polite responses to my questions. There are many Biblical reasons I do not agree with the claim that anyone who refuses to honour Mary as many Catholics do is actually denying that Jesus is God (or "King of Heaven") Also, with the various titles given to Mary. However, everyone must look into this for themselves and I truly hope that people will read the Bible in regard to much of what is taught about Mary.

God bless.

Jesus has a few titles too
 
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Major1

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We believe that they are in the Bible. We have already provided you with Scripture and explanations. You disagree with the information that has been provided to you. As I told you before, we interpret the Bible differently than you do. You reject our interpretations, and we reject your interpretations.

NOPE, you have not provided Bible Scriptures because there is none to provide.

We disagree with the information you provided because it is only explinations of your religion and are not based on Bible truths.
 
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PeaceB

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She is trying to get YOU to face the fact that you are not accepting the Word of God.

You have NOT provided Scriptures to support your religious actions in the faith you are believing in.

You have explained but explinations are not Bible facts my friend.

NOPE, you have not provided Bible Scriptures because there is none to provide.

We disagree with the information you provided because it is only explinations of your religion and are not based on Bible truths.
Duly noted.

Show me a Bible verse that states "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary" or I will not believe.
 
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Mountainmike

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All I cans say , is read the answer above, then study.

Christ is a davidic King. Mary is his mother. The rest follows. Such as Mary intercedes at Cana.
All follows. Study it.

Preferably BEFORE you repeat the I have shown false (and some of us find offensive) accusation that Mary as "queen" is somehow pagan. Whether or not you like the explanation the roots are biblical , it is certainly not pagan, so the remark was illinformed..

Your questions state either you have not read what I said, or drawn simple logical conclusions from it, or in places you have drawn nonsequiturs from it. Like "where does it say we should"- answer nowhere, but it is not what I said or we believe. There is a huge difference between "should" and "can" so the question is a logical nonsequitur. Nowhere does it say you should ask friends to pray for you, but we accept we can and most of us do.

I can only comment that without those Church fathers, and their inspired councils you would have no new testament. That is church history. The enactment of the power to "bind and loose", and that the "foundation of truth is the church which is the household of God"

Enough.
I tire of explaining the same points endlessly. I only hope it inspires others to research it.
As a general heological background to marian doctrines I suggest you read such as "staples" "behold your mother" which covers many of your points.

Study what we think and why. then decide, is a good order!


I don't believe I've discussed any of this with you personally before, and since you quoted my post and have chosen to accuse me of being "illinformed" and have suggested that what I've said is "unbiblical nonsense", here are a few questions for you:

When did Jesus bow down to Mary or give her a throne? (Since you want to compare Mary to king Solomon's mother).

When did Jesus (or any of the inspired Scripture writers) tell us that we should make requests of Mary, because Jesus "can't refuse" her?

Where did Jesus (or any of the Scripture writers) tell us that Mary makes intercession for us?

Where in Scripture is Mary referred to as a "Davidic Queen"?

Where in Scripture is Mary referred to as the "Queen of Heaven"?

Where in Scripture is Mary referred to as the "Mediatrix/Dispenser of All Graces"?

Where in Scripture does it say that Mary is between Christ Jesus and mankind, and that we must go through her to reach Christ?

You mentioned that there is in fact Biblical support for these claims, so surely you would be able to supply it.

And as for the early "Church Fathers", they did not write inspired Scripture. So, I do not consider their writings authoritative as the Bible is.

God bless.
 
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Goatee

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You are not required to respond to my posts you know (neither is anyone else). As for the ideas being "implicit in Scripture", they are not. If Jesus had wanted us to venerate Mary, He would have told us, we would have such teachings in the Bible. Why would He leave something like that out?

Anyway, as I have said, responding to posts is obviously optional. This is a public forum, meant for discussion, the topic is Mary.

As I said, you've made it abundantly clear what you think of me.

I will not be responding to you further.

God bless

Many teachings Jesus taught that, as John said, would need more books than the world could supply!

The Apostles knew these 'teachings and have passed down, through Apostolic Tradition and Sacred Tradition truths that the Catholic Church hold fast to!

It is obvious that these teachings would have included many things not written in the Bible. We are blessed in the CC to have had the world of Jesus and Mary expanded upon in ways that you cannot understand or even accept!
 
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Major1

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Show me the verse that says "Queen of Heaven" or I will not believe.

Show me the verse that says "Mediatrix" or I will not believe.

You already know perfectly well that none of those terms are contained in the Scripture. And if someone attempts to show you where the ideas are implicit in Scripture, you will reject them. Nor will you make any earnest attempt to try to understand them. In fact, you have already been provided with explanations numerous times and you have already rejected them numerous times. There is absolutely nothing that anyone could do to get you to budge on your position one inch, and both you and everyone else here knows it.

You simply want to debate on, and on, and on . . .

That is what we call "obsessing".

Jeremiah 44:19..........
"And the women said, “When we made offerings to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands’ approval that we made cakes for her bearing her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”

That was of course not Mary but was a woman named Semeramis who was the wife on Nimrod by in Genesis 10.

What Does The Bible Say?
Newsweek magazine of August 25, 1997.

That magazine brought to our attention a movement within the Roman Catholic Church to petition the Pope to "exercise the power of papal infallibility to proclaim a new dogma of the Roman Catholic faith: that the Virgin Mary is
'Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces and Advocate for the People of God."' At the heading of the lengthy article is this statement: "A growing movement in the Roman Catholic Church wants the pope to proclaim a new, controversial dogma: that Mary is Co-Redeemer.

According to the article, in the last four years, the pope has received 4,340,429 signatures from 157 countries and continues to receive on average 100,000 a month urging him to do so. The article also tells us that Mother Teresa (now deceased) and nearly 500 bishops and 42 cardinals at the Vatican support such a move by the pope. The petition leader is Prof. Mark Miravalle, lay theologian at Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio. We are also told that if this becomes official dogma, "Catholics are obliged as a matter of faith to accept three extraordinary doctrines: that Mary participates in the redemption achieved by her son, that all graces that flow from the suffering and death of Jesus Christ are granted only through Mary's intercession with her son, and that all prayers and petitions from the faithful on earth must likewise flow through Mary, who then brings them to the attention of Jesus."

Hmmmm. Where there is smoke there is always a fire.

Further in the article we read, "In many ways, the 20th century has belonged to Mary. From almost every continent, visionaries have reported more than 400 "apparitions" of the Virgin--more than in the previous three centuries combined, Miravalle estimates. Taken together, these visions point to what the Marian movement believes is a millennial "Age of Mary," which will produce the final dogma that confirms her ongoing maternal mediation between God and humankind."
 
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Goatee

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She is trying to get YOU to face the fact that you are not accepting the Word of God.

You have NOT provided Scriptures to support your religious actions in the faith you are believing in.

You have explained but explinations are not Bible facts my friend.

SACRED SCRIPTURE AND SACRED TRADITION. NOT SOLA SCRIPTURE my dear buddy.

You only know Sola Scripture. Nothing else. Only YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPINION / VIEWS / BELIEFS / INTERPRETATIONS / READING.
 
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PeaceB

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Jeremiah 44:19..........
"And the women said, “When we made offerings to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands’ approval that we made cakes for her bearing her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”

That was of course not Mary but was a woman named Semeramis who was the wife on Nimrod by in Genesis 10.

What Does The Bible Say?
Newsweek magazine of August 25, 1997.

That magazine brought to our attention a movement within the Roman Catholic Church to petition the Pope to "exercise the power of papal infallibility to proclaim a new dogma of the Roman Catholic faith: that the Virgin Mary is
'Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces and Advocate for the People of God."' At the heading of the lengthy article is this statement: "A growing movement in the Roman Catholic Church wants the pope to proclaim a new, controversial dogma: that Mary is Co-Redeemer.

According to the article, in the last four years, the pope has received 4,340,429 signatures from 157 countries and continues to receive on average 100,000 a month urging him to do so. The article also tells us that Mother Teresa (now deceased) and nearly 500 bishops and 42 cardinals at the Vatican support such a move by the pope. The petition leader is Prof. Mark Miravalle, lay theologian at Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio. We are also told that if this becomes official dogma, "Catholics are obliged as a matter of faith to accept three extraordinary doctrines: that Mary participates in the redemption achieved by her son, that all graces that flow from the suffering and death of Jesus Christ are granted only through Mary's intercession with her son, and that all prayers and petitions from the faithful on earth must likewise flow through Mary, who then brings them to the attention of Jesus."

Hmmmm. Where there is smoke there is always a fire.

Further in the article we read, "In many ways, the 20th century has belonged to Mary. From almost every continent, visionaries have reported more than 400 "apparitions" of the Virgin--more than in the previous three centuries combined, Miravalle estimates. Taken together, these visions point to what the Marian movement believes is a millennial "Age of Mary," which will produce the final dogma that confirms her ongoing maternal mediation between God and humankind."
None of those Bible verses states "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary". So I am perfectly free to pray in front of a statute of Mary.

Good day.
 
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Major1

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Duly noted.

Show me a Bible verse that states "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary" or I will not believe.

I have personally done just that for you about 12 times now. As YOU have stated, you will not accept what is show to you. The Question really now is WHY?

Here is a better, Where in the Bible are YOU told to bow down to a statue of Mary and Joseph and Jesus?????

Exodus 20:4-5 ...
'Thou shalt not MAKE unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF DOWN TO THEM, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.'


Did you notice that we are not even to make any images. And we are not to bow down to them. Because just bowing down to them is WORSHIP!

How can that be said any clearer?

You and many other Catholic believers have said we do not worship Mary, WE VENERATE her as if that word is some magical potion that releases you from the sin of idolatry.

But the fact is that English word "venerate" comes from the Latin word "veneratus", which means: "worshipped, adored, revered, venerated." So the word "venerate" can also mean to worship.

Now the bottom line is real simple, You do it because YOU want to. Somebody centuries ago started it, they like it and now you do because someone told you to do it.
 
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Major1

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We believe that they are in the Bible. We have already provided you with Scripture and explanations. You disagree with the information that has been provided to you. As I told you before, we interpret the Bible differently than you do. You reject our interpretations, and we reject your interpretations.

By the way........where can we find Jesus or any disciple or aposle bowing down to Mary.

I mean, you do it today and you accept traditions over Scripture, so then there should be some kind of record even outside of the Bible that says Jesus and the disciples and Apostles bowed down to Mary.

Would you please post that for me?
 
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Goatee

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I have personally done just that for you about 12 times now. As YOU have stated, you will not accept what is show to you. The Question really now is WHY?

Here is a better, Where in the Bible are YOU told to bow down to a statue of Mary and Joseph and Jesus?????

Exodus 20:4-5 ...
'Thou shalt not MAKE unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF DOWN TO THEM, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.'


Did you notice that we are not even to make any images. And we are not to bow down to them. Because just bowing down to them is WORSHIP!

How can that be said any clearer?

You and many other Catholic believers have said we do not worship Mary, WE VENERATE her as if that word is some magical potion that releases you from the sin of idolatry.

But the fact is that English word "venerate" comes from the Latin word "veneratus", which means: "worshipped, adored, revered, venerated." So the word "venerate" can also mean to worship.

Now the bottom line is real simple, You do it because YOU want to. Somebody centuries ago started it, they like it and now you do because someone told you to do it.

Graven image referring to the many gods that the Jews used to worship in those days.

God knows who we worship. Christians can't and don't make any graven images etc. It's impossible as we only worship the one true God!
 
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Goatee

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.
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By the way........where can we find Jesus or any disciple or aposle bowing down to Mary.

I mean, you do it today and you accept traditions over Scripture, so then there should be some kind of record even outside of the Bible that says Jesus and the disciples and Apostles bowed down to Mary.

Would you please post that for me?

YOU, are a 'SOLA SCRIPTURE person.

CATHOLICS ARE NOT!
 
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PeaceB

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I have personally done just that for you about 12 times now. As YOU have stated, you will not accept what is show to you. The Question really now is WHY?

Here is a better, Where in the Bible are YOU told to bow down to a statue of Mary and Joseph and Jesus?????

Exodus 20:4-5 ...
'Thou shalt not MAKE unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF DOWN TO THEM, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.'


Did you notice that we are not even to make any images. And we are not to bow down to them. Because just bowing down to them is WORSHIP!

How can that be said any clearer?

You and many other Catholic believers have said we do not worship Mary, WE VENERATE her as if that word is some magical potion that releases you from the sin of idolatry.

But the fact is that English word "venerate" comes from the Latin word "veneratus", which means: "worshipped, adored, revered, venerated." So the word "venerate" can also mean to worship.

Now the bottom line is real simple, You do it because YOU want to. Somebody centuries ago started it, they like it and now you do because someone told you to do it.
None of the Bible verses that you cited state "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary". I reject your man made interpretations that add to the word of God.
 
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PeaceB

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By the way........where can we find Jesus or any disciple or aposle bowing down to Mary.

I mean, you do it today and you accept traditions over Scripture, so then there should be some kind of record even outside of the Bible that says Jesus and the disciples and Apostles bowed down to Mary.

Would you please post that for me?
None of us bow down to Mary. We kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray. None of the Bible verses you cited states "Thou shalt not kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray." You are adding your man made interpretations to the word of God.
 
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Major1

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None of us bow down to Mary. We kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray. None of the Bible verses you cited states "Thou shalt not kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray." You are adding your man made interpretations to the word of God.

That is exactly what I knew you would say. What else can you say????????

What is actually funny to me is that you speak to us like none of us (Protestants) have ever been in a Catholic church service.

My dear friend, many of whom you have talked with are x-Catholic believers and many have attended church services in the Catholic church.

We have SEEN the bowing down to statues. We have SEEN the adoration/worship/veneration given.

We are not talking about opinions or accepting what you are spinning. We (I) have been there and seen what takes place. So you are going to have to come up with another routine to explain why you do what you do other than......You just want to do it.
 
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Major1

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None of the Bible verses that you cited state "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary". I reject your man made interpretations that add to the word of God.

Where is the Bible verse telling to you pray in front of MAry?
 
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