‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops

redleghunter · Jul 26, 2017

Full title:
‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

FREIBURG, Germany April 21, 2009 (LifeSiteNews) - According to the chairman of the Catholic bishops’ conference of Germany, the death of Jesus Christ was not a redemptive act of God to liberate human beings from the bondage of sin and open the gates of heaven. The Archbishop of Freiburg, Robert Zollitsch, known for his liberal views, publicly denied the fundamental Christian dogma of the sacrificial nature of Christ’s death in a recent interview with a German television station.

Zollitsch said that Christ "did not die for the sins of the people as if God had provided a sacrificial offering, like a scapegoat."

Instead, Jesus had offered only "solidarity" with the poor and suffering. Zollitsch said "that is this great perspective, this tremendous solidarity."

The interviewer asked, "You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?"

Monsignor Zollitsch responded, "No."

More at link:

‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

Mountainmanbob · Jul 26, 2017

Many will be deceived.
Remember -- the narrow road.
And -- the Wide road.

Some even prophesized in his name but yet he told them he never knew them.

M-Bob

Thursday · Jul 26, 2017

redleghunter said:
Full title:
‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

FREIBURG, Germany April 21, 2009 (LifeSiteNews) - According to the chairman of the Catholic bishops’ conference of Germany, the death of Jesus Christ was not a redemptive act of God to liberate human beings from the bondage of sin and open the gates of heaven. The Archbishop of Freiburg, Robert Zollitsch, known for his liberal views, publicly denied the fundamental Christian dogma of the sacrificial nature of Christ’s death in a recent interview with a German television station.

Zollitsch said that Christ "did not die for the sins of the people as if God had provided a sacrificial offering, like a scapegoat."

Instead, Jesus had offered only "solidarity" with the poor and suffering. Zollitsch said "that is this great perspective, this tremendous solidarity."

The interviewer asked, "You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?"

Monsignor Zollitsch responded, "No."

More at link:

‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

The German Church is a mess.

paul1149 · Jul 26, 2017

Surely he won't keep his job, right?

Thursday · Jul 26, 2017

paul1149 said:
Surely he won't keep his job, right?

It's not that simple.

stuart lawrence · Jul 26, 2017

redleghunter said:
Full title:
‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

FREIBURG, Germany April 21, 2009 (LifeSiteNews) - According to the chairman of the Catholic bishops’ conference of Germany, the death of Jesus Christ was not a redemptive act of God to liberate human beings from the bondage of sin and open the gates of heaven. The Archbishop of Freiburg, Robert Zollitsch, known for his liberal views, publicly denied the fundamental Christian dogma of the sacrificial nature of Christ’s death in a recent interview with a German television station.

Zollitsch said that Christ "did not die for the sins of the people as if God had provided a sacrificial offering, like a scapegoat."

Instead, Jesus had offered only "solidarity" with the poor and suffering. Zollitsch said "that is this great perspective, this tremendous solidarity."

The interviewer asked, "You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?"

Monsignor Zollitsch responded, "No."

More at link:

‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile
1cor3:20

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 26, 2017

paul1149 said:
Surely he won't keep his job, right?

Who knows ? It is really unpredictable, unless YHWH reveals it....
The world loves its own, and , well..... there is much more support in the world, encouragement all around the world, for sin,
instead of for Jesus and His Righteousness.
So in government and religious and scientific and all manner of social positions, that is what happens - as the days of NOAH become more exemplified....

redleghunter · Jul 26, 2017

Thursday said:
The German Church is a mess.

I found the article interesting as we have some posters here who deny the substitutionary atonement of Christ and yet label themselves "Christian."

And I'm not talking about Catholics FYI as I know what the CCC teaches.

So found it odd a bishop held this heretical view and no discipline yet.

anna ~ grace · Jul 26, 2017

redleghunter said:
I found the article interesting as we have some posters here who deny the substitutionary atonement of Christ and yet label themselves "Christian."

And I'm not talking about Catholics FYI as I know what the CCC teaches.

So found it odd a bishop held this heretical view and no discipline yet.

It seems that the Catholic hierarchy under Francis can say pretty near anything and face no consequences.

Catherineanne · Jul 27, 2017

redleghunter said:
Full title:
‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

FREIBURG, Germany April 21, 2009 (LifeSiteNews) - According to the chairman of the Catholic bishops’ conference of Germany, the death of Jesus Christ was not a redemptive act of God to liberate human beings from the bondage of sin and open the gates of heaven. The Archbishop of Freiburg, Robert Zollitsch, known for his liberal views, publicly denied the fundamental Christian dogma of the sacrificial nature of Christ’s death in a recent interview with a German television station.

Zollitsch said that Christ "did not die for the sins of the people as if God had provided a sacrificial offering, like a scapegoat."

Instead, Jesus had offered only "solidarity" with the poor and suffering. Zollitsch said "that is this great perspective, this tremendous solidarity."

The interviewer asked, "You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?"

Monsignor Zollitsch responded, "No."

More at link:

‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

This is not new thinking. There are plenty of Christians who do not emphasise substitutionary atonement as the primary reason for Christ's death.

There is an alternative interpretation which is every bit as Christian; that of reconciliation.

Thursday · Jul 27, 2017

redleghunter said:
I found the article interesting as we have some posters here who deny the substitutionary atonement of Christ and yet label themselves "Christian."

And I'm not talking about Catholics FYI as I know what the CCC teaches.

So found it odd a bishop held this heretical view and no discipline yet.

Yes, it is very frustrating for most Catholics, but the Church is very, very, very slow to discipline renegade bishops.

paul1149 · Jul 27, 2017

Thursday said:
Yes, it is very frustrating for most Catholics, but the Church is very, very, very slow to discipline renegade bishops.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Doesn't the RCC attach anathemas to its dogmas, such as it did with the Immaculate Conception ("Ineffulabis Deus", 1848, I believe, spelling aside). And didn't Francis functionally banish a high-level official (to Malta), not for doctrine, but reportedly for being conservative? Then couldn't this guy at least be removed from any position regarding shepherding and defending RCC doctrine? It seems odd, because to this non-RC, one thing the RCC has is an in-place system for church discipline.

SBC · Jul 27, 2017

redleghunter said:
Full title:
‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

FREIBURG, Germany April 21, 2009 (LifeSiteNews) - According to the chairman of the Catholic bishops’ conference of Germany, the death of Jesus Christ was not a redemptive act of God to liberate human beings from the bondage of sin and open the gates of heaven. The Archbishop of Freiburg, Robert Zollitsch, known for his liberal views, publicly denied the fundamental Christian dogma of the sacrificial nature of Christ’s death in a recent interview with a German television station.

Zollitsch said that Christ "did not die for the sins of the people as if God had provided a sacrificial offering, like a scapegoat."

Instead, Jesus had offered only "solidarity" with the poor and suffering. Zollitsch said "that is this great perspective, this tremendous solidarity."

The interviewer asked, "You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?"

Monsignor Zollitsch responded, "No."

More at link:

‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops Conference on TV

Pfft!

John.6

[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Eph 1

[7] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Heb 10

[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

God Bless,
SBC

Waggles · Jul 27, 2017

redleghunter said:
The interviewer asked, "You would now no longer describe it in such a way that God gave his own son, because we humans were so sinful? You would no longer describe it like this?"
Monsignor Zollitsch responded, "No."

No wonder this world is gonna burn.

Thursday · Jul 27, 2017

paul1149 said:
I'm not sure I'm understanding this. Doesn't the RCC attach anathemas to its dogmas, such as it did with the Immaculate Conception ("Ineffulabis Deus", 1848, I believe, spelling aside). And didn't Francis functionally banish a high-level official (to Malta), not for doctrine, but reportedly for being conservative? Then couldn't this guy at least be removed from any position regarding shepherding and defending RCC doctrine? It seems odd, because to this non-RC, one thing the RCC has is an in-place system for church discipline.

They do, it's just a slow process. They give someone like this a long time to come around.

redleghunter · Jul 27, 2017

Catherineanne said:
This is not new thinking. There are plenty of Christians who do not emphasise substitutionary atonement as the primary reason for Christ's death.

There is an alternative interpretation which is every bit as Christian; that of reconciliation.

Reconciled in what way?

PeaceB · Jul 27, 2017

Hmm. It is not entirely clear what he was getting at. We would probably need the full interview, if anyone has a link to a transcript.

The "scapegoat" reference leads me to believe that he meant to reject the Reformed doctrine of penal substitution, and that would be fine, because the Catholic Church has not accepted that theory of the atonement as viable.

redleghunter · Jul 28, 2017

PeaceB said:
Hmm. It is not entirely clear what he was getting at. We would probably need the full interview, if anyone has a link to a transcript.

Perhaps some prominent Catholics here on CF could call the bishop's office and ask how he responds to the following :

Isaiah 53:6 - "the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all."
Isaiah 53:12 - "yet he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressors."
Romans 3:25
2 Corinthians 5:21 - "For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."
Galatians 3:13 - "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us -- for it is written, Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree."
Hebrews 10:1-4

I will note the source of this article is a Catholic run site.

Catherineanne · Jul 28, 2017

redleghunter said:
Reconciled in what way?

Any way you like.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 28, 2017

SBC said:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Amein.

‘Christ did not die for the sins of the people’: Head of German Catholic Bishops

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