Are all Christian's under a curse for not tithing?

jabattler1976 · Jul 26, 2017

'Sadly, in some acute cases, that mission has little alignment with God's Will and more on the lining of staff members'.....

Which 'acute cases' are you thinking of?
One springs to mind here in the
Downunder that has had a lot of media attention.

The problem is we cannot know the truth unless
we work there or know someone in there.

Everyone gets suspicious if the pastor has a big
house and expensive cars or whatever else.

All the mega churches want to keep expanding...
they are doing a lot of business. The question is
how many of the regular people attending are
fully committed or do they have other reasons
...for example...networking to find a job, find a tenant or tenants, who knows what else....

OzSpen · Jul 27, 2017

iLove said:
Are Christian's who do not make God First with the tenth of their income under a curse. Has that Christian(s) initiated judicial blindness (God sees to it that your spiritual insight gets worse because of your heart hardiness when you reject truth) (Romans 11:7-8).

(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day (refers to a condition that will not correct itself, but will actually grow worse). Romans 11:8

For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest He also spare not thee. Romans 11:21

For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you either. Romans 11:21 NIV

What test is used in the bible to see if you are in faith?
Answer...Luke 16:9-13

Christians are tested with the least in the Kingdom of God which is money.
Considering what Jesus has said here (Luke 16:9-13 NKJV), I think it would be difficult to overstate the significance of this down to earth, practical teaching, that applies to everyone. If a person cannot be trusted with money, and in any capacity, Jesus plainly says, he cannot be trusted with Salvation, i.e., "true riches." In view of the seriousness of what is being said, we would do well to heed carefully.

In these passages (Luke 16:9-13), Jesus is saying that irrespective of how loudly and how often we profess our Godliness, if it does not show up in our practical, every day living, and especially in the matters of money, and our responsibility toward others, our profession is vain. This statement is plain and clear, if we are unfaithful in these things. "Who will commit to our trust the true riches?"

Tithing is a biblical doctrine but not a Christian doctrine.

The OT Israelites were told to tithe (Deut 12:5-6).

Christians are instructed to be voluntary, generous and cheerful givers:

6 Here is something to remember. The one who plants only a little will gather only a little. And the one who plants a lot will gather a lot. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give. You shouldn’t give if you don’t want to. You shouldn’t give because you are forced to. God loves a cheerful giver (2 Cor 9:6-7 NIRV).

Oz

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 27, 2017

Which one of the Apostles, (not counting the betrayer),
or even which one of the followers of Jesus,
in the New Testament,
kept 90%,
or even 85%,
or even 75%,
of their money , property or produce (crops, vegetables, fruits) ,
for themself ?

Why didn't they ?

98cwitr · Jul 28, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Which one of the Apostles, (not counting the betrayer),
or even which one of the followers of Jesus,
in the New Testament,
kept 90%,
or even 85%,
or even 75%,
of their money , property or produce (crops, vegetables, fruits) ,
for themself ?

Why didn't they ?

They left everything to follow Him. Can you imagine a man walking into your place of work and quitting your job right on the spot because you KNEW you couldn't NOT go?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 28, 2017

98cwitr said:
They left everything to follow Him. Can you imagine a man walking into your place of work and quitting your job right on the spot because you KNEW you couldn't NOT go?

Yes. The most important "Choose" anyone ever makes.
I never looked back. No regrets.

nonaeroterraqueous · Jul 28, 2017

98cwitr said:
"Furthering the church's mission" would be the answer I got when asking the question.

Sadly, in some acute cases, that mission has little alignment with God's Will and more on the lining of staff members' pockets.

If the Church is the people of God (and not a building, denomination, what-have-you), then our "tithe" needs to be on helping others (see Acts 2), and not to furnish a building, utilities, and salaries.

I humbly disagree. In the old days the people of the Lord knew exactly what to do with their tithe: they piled it on top of some sticks and set fire to it. The sacrifices of the Old Testament were, for the most part, not done to accomplish anything practical. To be plainly honest, what they did resembled a shameful waste. That, I believe, was by design. You don't give to God with strings attached, under the condition that your money goes toward some beneficial cause. It would be good that pastors not enrich themselves on tithes, and it would be good that churches spend their money on missions. I get that. However, once it is given, it is no longer yours. We can debate what the church organization ought to do with its own money, but if we regard it as a debate as to what ought to happen to your tithe, then it was not money given to God, being that the giver still lays claim to it.

Incidentally, I don't know if Christians would be cursed for not tithing, and I don't know that there's any validity to the ten percent rule. I only know that the hesitancy to tithe is a weakness of faith to be regarded circumspectly. When choosing between God and money in a forced dilemma, what did you choose?

woobadooba · Jul 28, 2017

nonaeroterraqueous said:
To be plainly honest, what they did resembled a shameful waste.

The Levites lived off the tithe. It was not a waste. It was their food. See Malachi 3:10.

nonaeroterraqueous · Jul 29, 2017

woobadooba said:
The Levites lived off the tithe. It was not a waste. It was their food. See Malachi 3:10.

Only a portion of it. The vast majority of it was burned up. I don't mean to sound snide about it, but I assume you must realize it was a burnt offering and not a Hawaiian luau?

HighCherub · Jul 30, 2017

Rightful pastors deserve to be compensated, because they take a lot of time out of their daily lives for God and their church- they have a family as well, an cannot also maintain a full time job.

Paul explains very plainly that they ought to be supported by laity.

woobadooba · Jul 30, 2017

HighCherub said:
Rightful pastors deserve to be compensated, because they take a lot of time out of their daily lives for God and their church- they have a family as well, an cannot also maintain a full time job.

Paul explains very plainly that they ought to be supported by laity.

I think most believers would agree that godly ministers should receive support. But they don't have the right to tell you how much you ought to give them. 2 Cor. 9:7 is clear on this.

98cwitr · Jul 31, 2017

jabattler1976 said:
'Sadly, in some acute

cases, that mission has little alignment with God's Will and more on the lining of staff members'.....

Which 'acute cases' are you thinking of?
One springs to mind here in the
Downunder that has had a lot of media attention.

The problem is we cannot know the truth unless
we work there or know someone in there.

Everyone gets suspicious if the pastor has a big
house and expensive cars or whatever else.

All the mega churches want to keep expanding...
they are doing a lot of business. The question is
how many of the regular people attending are
fully committed or do they have other reasons
...for example...networking to find a job, find a tenant or tenants, who knows what else....

That's the exact problem I'm referring to: "They're doing a lot of business." The Church is not a business and was never intended to be.

Big house + expensive cars...airplanes? Come on. How are Bible believing Christians not condemning this sort of lavish atrocity?

Huntersville pastor admits role in embezzlement of up to $1.5M from church and school
Former Southlake Christian pastor pleads guilty to embezzlement
http://www.theroot.com/va-pastor-wife-arrested-in-1-200-000-congregation-fr-1790857397
Pastor Creflo Dollar might get his $65 million private jet after all

List of religious leaders convicted of crimes - Wikipedia

Luke 6:24 New International Version (NIV)

24 “But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.

James 5 New International Version (NIV)

Warning to Rich Oppressors
5 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

98cwitr · Jul 31, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Yes. The most important "Choose" anyone ever makes.
I never looked back. No regrets.

Jesus would say it wasn't their choice, but His: John 15:16

woobadooba · Jul 31, 2017

98cwitr said:
That's the exact problem I'm referring to: "They're doing a lot of business." The Church is not a business and was never intended to be.

Big house + expensive cars...airplanes? Come on. How are Bible believing Christians not condemning this sort of lavish atrocity?

Huntersville pastor admits role in embezzlement of up to $1.5M from church and school
Former Southlake Christian pastor pleads guilty to embezzlement
http://www.theroot.com/va-pastor-wife-arrested-in-1-200-000-congregation-fr-1790857397
Pastor Creflo Dollar might get his $65 million private jet after all

List of religious leaders convicted of crimes - Wikipedia

Luke 6:24 New International Version (NIV)

24 “But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.

James 5 New International Version (NIV)

Warning to Rich Oppressors
5 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.[a] 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

1 Timothy 6:10 NKJV "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

98cwitr · Jul 31, 2017

woobadooba said:
1 Timothy 6:10 NKJV "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

How awful will it be for those who love money to the point they see God's people as easy (trusting/gullible) prey in their predatory long cons and rob God in order to fulfill their own greed? Bible never says the devil is kept from the church.

woobadooba · Jul 31, 2017

98cwitr said:
How awful will it be for those who love money to the point they see God's people as easy (trusting/gullible) prey in their predatory long cons and rob God in order to fulfill their own greed?

The irony is they accuse us of robbing God because we don't agree with their false teaching that God requires Christians to give 10% of their gross income to their church organization.

HighCherub · Aug 3, 2017

Paul teaches that pastors deserve compensation.
They can't maintain a full time job as well as keep their church intact. Being a church leader is a mighty responsibility if done right.

Dave-W · Aug 3, 2017

HighCherub said:
Being a church leader is a mighty responsibility if done right.

Indeed. 24/7 and then some.

woobadooba · Aug 3, 2017

HighCherub said:
Paul teaches that pastors deserve compensation.
They can't maintain a full time job as well as keep their church intact. Being a church leader is a mighty responsibility if done right.

Have you seen anyone here say church members shouldn't give to support ministers?

lismore · Sep 21, 2017

iLove said:
Are Christian's who do not make God First with the tenth of their income under a curse.

Hello There. I know a lot of believers who give 10% of their income to the Lord as a principle for putting the Lord first, good for them, sort of like a personal thing for them only. However when someone tries to make this a legalistic requirement for all believers I think that's a false doctrine. If you read Deuteronomy Chapters 12, 14 and 26 you will find some interesting things about 'tithing' under the old covenant:

The tithe is to be eaten (Deuteronomy 12:17)
The tithe is to be eaten in Jerusalem and absolutely nowhere else (Deuteronomy 14:23, 12:17), on a specific day
Every third year the tithing requirement changes (26:12)

In the Old Covenant there are blessing for obedience and curses for disobedience, the three chapters in Deuteronomy throw up a whole range of legalistic conditions, if you don't keep these to the letter then you are disobedient.

God Bless :amen:

lismore · Sep 21, 2017

Dave-W said:
It could be in money:

Deut 14.24 If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the Lord your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the Lord your God blesses you, 25 then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses.

The next verse nails it:

26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. You shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household

Are all Christian's under a curse for not tithing?

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