Date and age you left Christianity?

Nihilist Virus

Infectious idea
Oct 24, 2015
4,940
1,251
40
California
✟156,979.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I have no idea what you are talking about. I had hoped to have a conversation with you as a human being but I see now that is impossible for you.

You mentioned hard parts of the Old Testament. I asked for clarification on that. You then said that salvation is an issue of both testaments. I said that was a dodge and for some reason your head popped off.
 
Upvote 0

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
If someone considers atheism to indicate nothing besides that, that would be the opposite of dogma. That statement limits it to its basic meaning and says that nothing else is inherently a part of atheism.
I think if you move beyond a shallow parsing of the word, you might see that it doesn't work.

Think of the human brain like software. Unless we have never heard of Christianity, we have some code in our brains to react to it.
A typical atheist's code says "ignore Christian dogma for decisions".
A typical Christian's code says "try to follow Christian dogma for decisions"
A typical Martian's code says "investigate Christianity and form opinion"

We can imagine similar chunks of code for most of the popular religions. Furthermore there are weights attached. Like I don't dismiss Wicca as thoroughly as a I dismiss Christian fundamentalism, but I don't care enough about Wicca to waste energy or money on it.

Anyway, this is one of those things that is pointless to argue. I think the typical atheist definition of atheism is grossly oversimplified, but most of them cling to it like a religious person clings to dogma.

I think the best definition of atheism is metaphysical naturalism, but I know from past experience that most atheists reject my definition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Yes, you're right! I'm not Gandalf!
Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
21,124
9,946
The Void!
✟1,125,860.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Well, I had a theory that the usability of the internet in the late 1990s and early 2000s was the key factor in the exodus of Christians into apostasy in the US. I suspected that there was an avalanche of people from all age groups losing faith in that time period as they were suddenly connected to skeptical information and groups. I expected this avalanche to be finished, so that now it would be only a trickle of young adults losing faith.

My theory doesn't seem to work. That is what I learned. :) (Of course this isn't a scientific survey.)

I don't think you're so off on this conclusion, but rather we might say the internet plays 'one part' in the ongoing growth of unbelief in the West. You might find the following M.I.T. related article interesting, Cloudy:

How the Internet Is Taking Away America’s Religion
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cloudyday2
Upvote 0

Cearbhall

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2013
15,118
5,741
United States
✟122,284.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
Anyway, this is one of those things that is pointless to argue. I think the typical atheist definition of atheism is grossly oversimplified
Yes, it is. That's because it's the greatest common denominator. Sure, most atheists might think X, but if that's not part of atheism itself, it shouldn't be part of the definition.
but most of them cling to it like a religious person clings to dogma.
I'm still not sure why you're choosing to use the word "dogma" here. Most people cling to the idea that atheism is "the lack of belief in gods" because that's what it is and that's what it means. Simple use of language is not dogma.
 
Upvote 0

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
I don't think you're so off on this conclusion, but rather we might say the internet plays 'one part' in the ongoing growth of unbelief in the West. You might find the following M.I.T. related article interesting, Cloudy:

How the Internet Is Taking Away America’s Religion
Very interesting...
25% decrease due to reduced religion in upbringing
25% decrease due to internet
50% decrease due to recent date of birth for unknown reasons

I wonder if the 50% unknown is simply that the 25% numbers didn't measure indirect effects? For example, I might spend many hours on the internet and become an atheist. Then I buy an Invisible Pink Unicorn t-shirt to wear to the next church picnic. People ask me about my shirt, and I begin telling them what I learned through the internet. So then some of my friends from the picnic become atheists as an indirect effect of my internet usage. They themselves didn't use the internet that much - they just went to a church picnic and saw my atheist t-shirt.

EDIT: New atheism is another factor. In the past, atheists were content to keep their disbelief private out of respect for the religious. 9/11 convinced some atheists to become more evangelistic.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0

TheOldWays

Candidate
May 28, 2014
825
745
✟125,030.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I left a Calvinistic denomination for one that is considered mainline. For some folks of my former denomination I imagine it seems like a step toward apostasy, but I believe it was the right thing to do.

Good for you for following what you believe to be a better path for you.

And of course, when you leave one group, who puts alot of importance on their beliefs, they will see anyone who 'deviates' from that belief as 'going astray'.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: cloudyday2
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,790
✟322,365.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Well, I had a theory that the usability of the internet in the late 1990s and early 2000s was the key factor in the exodus of Christians into apostasy in the US. I suspected that there was an avalanche of people from all age groups losing faith in that time period as they were suddenly connected to skeptical information and groups. I expected this avalanche to be finished, so that now it would be only a trickle of young adults losing faith.

My theory doesn't seem to work. That is what I learned. :) (Of course this isn't a scientific survey.)
My theory is that it started with evolution being taught as science in schools. One of the things I hear the most is that younger people struggle with is Genesis and the creation account.
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,790
✟322,365.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Very interesting...
25% decrease due to reduced religion in upbringing
25% decrease due to internet
50% decrease due to recent date of birth for unknown reasons

I wonder if the 50% unknown is simply that the 25% numbers didn't measure indirect effects? For example, I might spend many hours on the internet and become an atheist. Then I buy an Invisible Pink Unicorn t-shirt to wear to the next church picnic. People ask me about my shirt, and I begin telling them what I learned through the internet. So then some of my friends from the picnic become atheists as an indirect effect of my internet usage. They themselves didn't use the internet that much - they just went to a church picnic and saw my atheist t-shirt.

EDIT: New atheism is another factor. In the past, atheists were content to keep their disbelief private out of respect for the religious. 9/11 convinced some atheists to become more evangelistic.
Some of us who are not atheists are not counted at all? Why not?

Also, can you explain a little further the 'recent date of birth' category?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,790
✟322,365.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Good for you for following what you believe to be a better path for you.

And of course, when you leave one group, who puts alot of importance on their beliefs, they will see anyone who 'deviates' from that belief as 'going astray'.
Which is why we must remain strong in our relationship with God and not put anything others think or say to us in front of Him.

I think that has been one of my best decisions to date. To work out my feelings and actions with God and then not give a care what anyone else thinks.

I highly recommend it for Christians because others will always be in your ear and we need to be true to God and ourselves first.

This is what I have found works and I'm happy I did it and continue to do it.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: TheOldWays
Upvote 0

TheOldWays

Candidate
May 28, 2014
825
745
✟125,030.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I think that has been one of my best decisions to date. To work out my feelings and actions with God and then not give a care what anyone else thinks.

Right on! I have a similar view in a don't really care what others think and follow the path I think best leads me to my goal.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: dlamberth
Upvote 0

cloudyday2

Generic Theist
Supporter
Jul 10, 2012
7,381
2,352
✟568,802.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Some of us who are not atheists are not counted at all? Why not?

Also, can you explain a little further the 'recent date of birth' category?
Here is the link to the article referenced by @2PhiloVoid
How the Internet Is Taking Away America’s Religion

The percentages measure the estimated role of various factors in the decline in Christianity in the US (25% due to less religion in homes, 25% due to internet use, 50% due to being born more recently for unexplained reasons)
 
Upvote 0

ToBeLoved

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 3, 2014
18,705
5,790
✟322,365.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

Robert76

Robert
Jul 19, 2017
135
110
Central Ohio
✟7,841.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Have you considered the verses you supplied may not be referring those who left, but to those who are still within?

Philippians 3:18-19 was where Paul was addressing the Judaizing teachers of that day, which were those who insisted that their co-religionists should follow the Law of Moses rather than the New Testament that had been brought about and fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Robban

-----------
Supporter
Dec 27, 2009
11,311
3,057
✟626,034.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Divorced
Philippians 3:18-19 was where Paul was addressing the Judaizing teachers of that day, which were those who insisted that their co-religionists should follow the Law of Moses rather than the New Testament that had been brought about and fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Co-religionist, new one on me.
 
Upvote 0

Robert76

Robert
Jul 19, 2017
135
110
Central Ohio
✟7,841.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yeah new one on me too, the term "co-religionists" came from Wikipedia, so I don't consider it a 'scholarly' source in the truest sense, but reference to whom Paul was addressing came from Bible commentary I found. I interpreted "co-religionists" to mean "fellow Christians."
 
Upvote 0

Robban

-----------
Supporter
Dec 27, 2009
11,311
3,057
✟626,034.00
Country
Sweden
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Divorced
Yeah new one on me too, the term "co-religionists" came from Wikipedia, so I don't consider it a 'scholarly' source in the truest sense, but reference to whom Paul was addressing came from Bible commentary I found. I interpreted "co-religionists" to mean "fellow Christians."

OK, I get it.
 
Upvote 0

Quid est Veritas?

In Memoriam to CS Lewis
Feb 27, 2016
7,319
9,272
South Africa
✟316,433.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
I don't think the internet resulted in more people turning atheist. There have always been people with atheistic tendencies. The Internet probably just helped them to contact one another in an anonymous space, thus giving the idea of a 'group', which made it more acceptable to declare it openly. Earlier generations grew up in a culture that assumed religion and where it was a cultural institution, so you would in essence alienate yourself from society by atheism. As it became better known and more openly acknowledged, people would be more likely to label themselves by it, creating a subculture. In addition, modern 'atheism', by a casuistic reinterpretation of the term into merely not-believing, artificially inflates its numbers even further. No shockingly new information has come to light to account for it, and all the information on the internet was readily available in libraries and books. If the internet played any part, it is likely due to community that it has done so. Religious affiliation has been on the decline long before the internet, so it is likely a socio-cultural phenomenon at play here. History is full of pendulum swings between libertine and conservative periods, and I think we just entered another such a phase. Voltaire or Robespierre or Marx all declared the death of religion, but here we all are still talking about it. The difference is that statistics is merely confusing the issue nowadays. Some periods appear culturally more devout and some culturally more irreverent.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TheOldWays

Candidate
May 28, 2014
825
745
✟125,030.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The internet simply gave people access to more information outside their 'worlds' as well as communication with other people of different mind sets. So I have no doubt the internet has resulted in mass change in people across many spectrum's. Atheists and agnostics to theists, theist to atheist, Christians to druids, druids to Buddhists.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0