Is Conversion the Same as Regeneration?
- Thread starter EmSw
- Start date
The root word for convert is different than
Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)
begotten again.
Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)
But it depends on the context, as some use of converted means the person is born again, born of God.
regeneration
Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)
born again in John 3
John Chapter 3 (KJV)
So various words can describe the same process.
Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)
begotten again.
Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)
But it depends on the context, as some use of converted means the person is born again, born of God.
regeneration
Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)
born again in John 3
John Chapter 3 (KJV)
So various words can describe the same process.
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Thank you Sola. We do know conversion comes after repentance.
Acts 3:19
Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,
We also know this about Peter from Jesus Himself. He was not converted before the last supper.
Luke 22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
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Marvin Knox
Senior Veteran
Is Conversion the Same as Regeneration?
No.
Conversion, like repentance, is an externally manifested event while regeneration is strictly an internally manifested event.
They are both changes. But one is a change in our nature while the other is a change in our conduct of life. The change in nature is hidden and mysterious while the change in conduct is evident.
The occurrence of regeneration is evident only by observing the change in one's life.
We must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. It is debatable theologically whether being born again refers to regeneration itself or the initial entry into the Kingdom - which is the first manifestation of conversion.
Some teach that regeneration and being born again are synonymous terms.
Some teach that being born again is the first visible beginning of our new life in Christ which was started in secret by regeneration itself. Our new spiritual life parallels our physical life and that is why the Lord used that particular illustration.
Regeneration is a change performed by God by his will. Conversion is a change performed by man by his will. Man is made willing only by the occurrence of the first change which is by God's will. "No one can come to Christ unless the Father draw him."
A man does not become a new creature by converting his beliefs and actions. One converts his beliefs and actions by becoming a new creature. "We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto God's works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." "He who began a good work in you will complete in until the day of Christ Jesus."
One cannot be converted in the Biblical sense without regeneration. The natural man does not understand the things of God and has no desire to do them. He must be regenerated to understand God and desire God.
The two changes must be kept in the proper relationship or soteriological error will be manifested in the theology of the person teaching about the two related but distinct subjects.
We have often seen that kind of error displayed here in the forum and the OP is a prime example of one who has done that very thing IMO.
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DeaconDean
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Its a both/and.
At this point, I refer to historic Baptist beliefs:
"At the outset of a discussion of these two subjects we are met by the question, whether they are not one and the same thing. They are unquestionably so intimately associated that it is difficult to separate them and point out the distinctions between them. The Scriptures connect the two under the one idea of the new birth, and teach that not only is regeneration an absolute essential in each conversion, but that in every intelligent responsible soul conversion invariably accompanies regeneration. It is not strange, therefore, that they are often confounded. Yet, after all, the Scriptures also teach that regeneration is the work of God, changing the heart of man by his sovereign will, while conversion is the act of man turning towards God with the new inclination thus given to his heart.
II. From the Scriptural teaching we see that the whole work of Regeneration and Conversion is included under the one term regeneration.
It is true that but few of the passages refer to anything save the work of God; yet these few sufficiently teach the use of the word in regeneration to lead us not to reject, as a part of it, that result of God's act which, in connection with the word, leads to the full union of its subject with Christ through repentance and faith.
The passages in connection with Paul as God's instrument, 1 Cor. 4:15, and Philemon 10, would not be conclusive, but they are made so by others.
However much James 1:18 suggests a different aspect of the work, namely, the bringing forth that which has been begotten, still it so nearly connects that idea with the begetting as to create doubt if the whole work may not be virtually involved.
But 1 Pet. 1:23, by the use of the compound of gennao, shows that all the work of the Spirit, including both the new heart and the leading of it to conscious faith, is properly to be spoken of by the same term as a mere change of heart.
The whole work is thus spoken of, however, because God is operative from the beginning to the end, but this does not prove that he does not operate differently in one part from what he does in the other.
I. This is the result of regeneration. The new heart is prepared to turn to God and does actually so turn. Without regeneration, the sinfulness of man keeps him away from God, causes him to set his affections upon self and his own pleasure, and to find gratification in things which are opposed to God and holiness. The regenerated heart has new affections and desires and is, therefore, fitted to seek after God and holiness.
II. It is both the act of God and of man co-operating with him.
1. It is the act of God. It is thus described in the Scriptures.
1 Kings 18:37. "Thou hast turned their heart back again."
Ps. 80:3. "Turn us again, O God; and cause thy face to shine, and we shall be saved."
Ps. 85:4. "Turn us, O God of our salvation."
Song of Sol. 1:4. "Draw me; we will run after thee."
Jer. 30:21. "I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me."
Jer. 31:18. "Turn thou me, and I shall be turned."
Ezek. 36:27. "And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
John 6:44. "No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him."
2. It is the act of the regenerated heart actively co-operating in thus turning.
Deut. 4:30. "Thou shalt return to the Lord thy God."
Prov. 1:23. "Turn you at my reproof."
Hosea 12:6. "Therefore turn thou to thy God."
Isaiah 55:7. "Let him return unto the Lord."
Joel 2:13. "Rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the Lord your God."
Acts 11:21. "A great number that believed turned unto the Lord."
III. The question naturally arises what is the nature of conversion. In reply it may be said that it consists:
1. Not in mere outward reformation.
2. Not in return from backsliding.
3. But in the turning of the heart to God and holiness. It is a turning of the thoughts, desires and affections of the heart from sinful and carnal lusts and pleasures toward holy things, and God, and Christ, and salvation. It is a turning from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God. [See Gill's Divinity 2:132-4.] It consists "in a man's turning actively to God under the influence of divine grace." [Gill 2:135]"
Abstract of Systematic Theology, James P. Boyce, Chapter 32, Regeneration and Conversion
Also:
"In our natural state we are totally depraved. No inclination to holiness exists in the carnal heart; and no holy act can be performed, or service to God rendered, until the heart is changed. This change, it is the office of the Holy Spirit to effect. Pardon, justification, and adoption, are changes in a man's condition; but if no other change were wrought, the man would remain a slave to sin, and unfit for the service and enjoyment of God. Grace, therefore, does not stop with a mere change of condition, but it effects also that change in the character, without which the individual could not participate in the holy enjoyments of heaven, or be fitted for the society of the blessed.
Various forms of expression are employed in the Scriptures, to denote the change of heart; and they signify it with various shades of meaning.. It is taking away the heart of stone, and giving a heart of flesh; giving a new heart; putting the law in the heart; quickening or making alive; a resurrection from the dead; an illumination; a conversion, or turning back to God. So great is the change produced, that the subject of it is called a new creature, as if proceeding, like Adam, directly from the creating hand of God; and he is said to be renewed, as being restored to the image of God, in which man was originally formed. With reference to the mode in which the descendants of Adam come into the world, the change is denominated regeneration; and the subjects of it are said to be born again.
The change is moral. The body is unchanged; and the identity of the mind is not destroyed. The individual is conscious of being the same person that he was before; but a new direction is given to the active powers of the mind, and new affections are brought into exercise. The love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost. No love to God had previously existed there; for the carnal heart is enmity against God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the principle of all holy obedience; and when love is produced in the heart, the law of God is written there. As a new principle of action, inciting to a new mode of life, it renders the man a new creature. The production of love in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is the regeneration, or the new birth; for "he that loveth, is born of God."
Manual of Theology, John L. Dagg, Book Seventh, Doctrines Concerning Divine Grace, Chapter 3, Blessings of Grace, Section4: Regeneration.
Oh well, my .02 worth.
God Bless
Till all are one.
At this point, I refer to historic Baptist beliefs:
"At the outset of a discussion of these two subjects we are met by the question, whether they are not one and the same thing. They are unquestionably so intimately associated that it is difficult to separate them and point out the distinctions between them. The Scriptures connect the two under the one idea of the new birth, and teach that not only is regeneration an absolute essential in each conversion, but that in every intelligent responsible soul conversion invariably accompanies regeneration. It is not strange, therefore, that they are often confounded. Yet, after all, the Scriptures also teach that regeneration is the work of God, changing the heart of man by his sovereign will, while conversion is the act of man turning towards God with the new inclination thus given to his heart.
II. From the Scriptural teaching we see that the whole work of Regeneration and Conversion is included under the one term regeneration.
It is true that but few of the passages refer to anything save the work of God; yet these few sufficiently teach the use of the word in regeneration to lead us not to reject, as a part of it, that result of God's act which, in connection with the word, leads to the full union of its subject with Christ through repentance and faith.
The passages in connection with Paul as God's instrument, 1 Cor. 4:15, and Philemon 10, would not be conclusive, but they are made so by others.
However much James 1:18 suggests a different aspect of the work, namely, the bringing forth that which has been begotten, still it so nearly connects that idea with the begetting as to create doubt if the whole work may not be virtually involved.
But 1 Pet. 1:23, by the use of the compound of gennao, shows that all the work of the Spirit, including both the new heart and the leading of it to conscious faith, is properly to be spoken of by the same term as a mere change of heart.
The whole work is thus spoken of, however, because God is operative from the beginning to the end, but this does not prove that he does not operate differently in one part from what he does in the other.
I. This is the result of regeneration. The new heart is prepared to turn to God and does actually so turn. Without regeneration, the sinfulness of man keeps him away from God, causes him to set his affections upon self and his own pleasure, and to find gratification in things which are opposed to God and holiness. The regenerated heart has new affections and desires and is, therefore, fitted to seek after God and holiness.
II. It is both the act of God and of man co-operating with him.
1. It is the act of God. It is thus described in the Scriptures.
1 Kings 18:37. "Thou hast turned their heart back again."
Ps. 80:3. "Turn us again, O God; and cause thy face to shine, and we shall be saved."
Ps. 85:4. "Turn us, O God of our salvation."
Song of Sol. 1:4. "Draw me; we will run after thee."
Jer. 30:21. "I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me."
Jer. 31:18. "Turn thou me, and I shall be turned."
Ezek. 36:27. "And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
John 6:44. "No man can come to me, except the Father which sent me draw him."
2. It is the act of the regenerated heart actively co-operating in thus turning.
Deut. 4:30. "Thou shalt return to the Lord thy God."
Prov. 1:23. "Turn you at my reproof."
Hosea 12:6. "Therefore turn thou to thy God."
Isaiah 55:7. "Let him return unto the Lord."
Joel 2:13. "Rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the Lord your God."
Acts 11:21. "A great number that believed turned unto the Lord."
III. The question naturally arises what is the nature of conversion. In reply it may be said that it consists:
1. Not in mere outward reformation.
2. Not in return from backsliding.
3. But in the turning of the heart to God and holiness. It is a turning of the thoughts, desires and affections of the heart from sinful and carnal lusts and pleasures toward holy things, and God, and Christ, and salvation. It is a turning from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God. [See Gill's Divinity 2:132-4.] It consists "in a man's turning actively to God under the influence of divine grace." [Gill 2:135]"
Abstract of Systematic Theology, James P. Boyce, Chapter 32, Regeneration and Conversion
Also:
"In our natural state we are totally depraved. No inclination to holiness exists in the carnal heart; and no holy act can be performed, or service to God rendered, until the heart is changed. This change, it is the office of the Holy Spirit to effect. Pardon, justification, and adoption, are changes in a man's condition; but if no other change were wrought, the man would remain a slave to sin, and unfit for the service and enjoyment of God. Grace, therefore, does not stop with a mere change of condition, but it effects also that change in the character, without which the individual could not participate in the holy enjoyments of heaven, or be fitted for the society of the blessed.
Various forms of expression are employed in the Scriptures, to denote the change of heart; and they signify it with various shades of meaning.. It is taking away the heart of stone, and giving a heart of flesh; giving a new heart; putting the law in the heart; quickening or making alive; a resurrection from the dead; an illumination; a conversion, or turning back to God. So great is the change produced, that the subject of it is called a new creature, as if proceeding, like Adam, directly from the creating hand of God; and he is said to be renewed, as being restored to the image of God, in which man was originally formed. With reference to the mode in which the descendants of Adam come into the world, the change is denominated regeneration; and the subjects of it are said to be born again.
The change is moral. The body is unchanged; and the identity of the mind is not destroyed. The individual is conscious of being the same person that he was before; but a new direction is given to the active powers of the mind, and new affections are brought into exercise. The love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost. No love to God had previously existed there; for the carnal heart is enmity against God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the principle of all holy obedience; and when love is produced in the heart, the law of God is written there. As a new principle of action, inciting to a new mode of life, it renders the man a new creature. The production of love in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is the regeneration, or the new birth; for "he that loveth, is born of God."
Manual of Theology, John L. Dagg, Book Seventh, Doctrines Concerning Divine Grace, Chapter 3, Blessings of Grace, Section4: Regeneration.
Oh well, my .02 worth.
God Bless
Till all are one.
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Thank you Marvin. I appreciate your answer. I will think about what you said and get back to you later.
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I would say a possible yes .
Convert means-turn back
Regeneration-may mean to pass from death to life.
So then the question is: once a person turns back do they immediately pass from death to life? And I say that it is possible from the scipture, [If thy people turn from their ways then will I hear from heaven and forgive their sins.] a person knows they have passed from death to life when they love their brothern.
So that means they may have passed but know it when the outcome of their cleansing is Love.
So then we know what we have by What we do....
So that then makes part of salvation, or what accompanies salvation what we do..For to know what you have is to know abundance of Life.
To not know what you have brings that peace or Joy. That is why when we walk in the spirit the blood cleanses us from all unrighteousness.
That may mean that we First turn to God in Christ[repentance] and then we must remain in His Love to continually be cleansed where we know we have salvation because the continually cleansing keeps us continually walking or living by that same spirit.
Therefore the outcome of continually being cleansed is setting our mind to things of the Spirit.
So it seems man may be regenerated by hearing the word and when He believes He Knows He has life. And Now that He has life He must now walk in that Life.
And maybe that is why the scriptures: the words I speak to you are spirit and life, or you are clean by the word I speak.
And, It is the spirit that gives life.
So now when we see the scripture: we are not saved by any works of righteousness we have done but through the washing "of" regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.....then we may see, it is Christ's Spirit we we're given..after we believed the word of truth. And we are washed continually when we depend on Him.
So we are given His Spirit to live through it.
As they in First Peter 3:21 were given the ark to remain in it unto their new beginning.
So I'd say there are 2 parts to regeneration as there is to conversion.
Where, regeneration proceeds conversion [ where we are given Christ's Spirit by the words He spoke, and belief is acceptance]
But now we must continue on by remaining in His Love[that great sacrifice and God who raised Him from the dead...
And as we grow we may fall, and may fall into a sin. And we are saved again because we turn to the son[He is the regenerated source that conquered death]. What are we saved from now? Sin...that separates us from the knowledge of God. And How? We have a clear conscience before God...which is found by looking to the one who was raised. And this too is our regeneration because...knowledge of God is Life.
So there is initial conversion recognizing God ....for who He is. And by that initial conversion you are becoming converted....Because of you looking to God every time you sin...He is the constant source of Life that causes growth.
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If one is not saved by any works of righteousness that they have done.
And they are saved by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the spirit...then what is regeneration?
Regeneration has to be seen in what Christ has done.
Therefore regeneration was and is in the action of Jesus.
Jesus is the word of God
God created everything through His word.
His word is Living and active.
What is it Christ did to conquer spiritual death ? He died taking on the punishments of the whole world, and What did God do? He raised Him...
So regeneration is uncovering or rediscovering Life [and who is the source of Life?]God
Regeneration: uncovered life by God
So one must be washed or clean by uncovered life by God
So the above is what God does through Christ
But when is This done for us by God?
When we accept what we hear by the power of the Gospel .
Therefore while acceptance(believing something mentallly) may not be all of faith it is a factor of Faith. The only way we will know it is true faith is when we act on What we accept....
To be continued
And they are saved by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the spirit...then what is regeneration?
Regeneration has to be seen in what Christ has done.
Therefore regeneration was and is in the action of Jesus.
Jesus is the word of God
God created everything through His word.
His word is Living and active.
What is it Christ did to conquer spiritual death ? He died taking on the punishments of the whole world, and What did God do? He raised Him...
So regeneration is uncovering or rediscovering Life [and who is the source of Life?]God
Regeneration: uncovered life by God
So one must be washed or clean by uncovered life by God
So the above is what God does through Christ
But when is This done for us by God?
When we accept what we hear by the power of the Gospel .
Therefore while acceptance(believing something mentallly) may not be all of faith it is a factor of Faith. The only way we will know it is true faith is when we act on What we accept....
To be continued
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Think about plant life
When does glucose convert into energy for a plant. When it gets light energy from the Sun. So if the plant gets energy immediately At receiving light energy from the sun..then regeneration and conversion
Are the same.
Maybe here is the test question:
Can one turn back without passing from death to life?
And can one pass from death to life without turning back?
If the answer are both the same
Then they are the same thing.
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TheSeabass
Well-Known Member
Regeneration, being born again, occurs when one is water baptized.
Comparing two verses:
Acts 2:38-------repent+++++++++++be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins
Acts 3:19-------repent+++++++++++be converted>>>>>>>>>>sins blotted out
So conversion occurs at water baptism where God does the work of removing the body of sin thereby converting the sinner into a Christian.
Comparing two verses:
Acts 2:38-------repent+++++++++++be baptized>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins
Acts 3:19-------repent+++++++++++be converted>>>>>>>>>>sins blotted out
So conversion occurs at water baptism where God does the work of removing the body of sin thereby converting the sinner into a Christian.
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Marvin Knox
Senior Veteran
Would you please explain for us the meaning of this silly tag you include each time along with your identification?
Thanks.
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