Does God harden human hearts?

The hardening texts have always been fascinating to me. I will be reading Msgr. Pope's article with great interest.

Today as I was studying the schemes of Satan I came to David calling for a census in I Chronicles 21...there it says that Satan enticed David to call for a census. The same story in II Samuel 24 tells us that God stirred up David

It seems to me that what we are really talking about when we talk about God hardening peoples hearts is that He permits Satan and men to have it their way sometimes. Kind of like giving them over to their evil minds.

However, that being said we also know from scripture that God created and ordained Pharoah for the "task" of revealing His power to the people. IOW's a specific instance.

Thus we would have two different issues when talking about God hardening hearts,
1. is there a special purpose
2. is this just permission given as in the case of Job

Just my thoughts for what it's worth.

Another theory I have read is that since God knows all time He knows if that person would have ever come to Him, and ever accepted the Grace to make the right decisions. So knowing that the person would never have used their free will for the good (or never use it for good did based on Gods knowledge of time); God then hardens the heart to make a point or bring about some good, like showing His wonders to free Israel. So it does not abridge the free will of the person but works to take their rejection and bring good out of it for the plan of Salvation.

Michie said:

One of the more difficult biblical themes to understand is that of God hardening the hearts and minds of certain people.

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Why is this difficult to believe or understand ?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Why is this difficult to believe or understand ?

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Because from a certain viewpoint it removes free will, which would contradict other Scripture. So many theologians have talked over 2000 years about how to apply these passages.

Michie said:

@Davidnic

This passage from 1 Samuel 16:14-23 sort of ties in with this thread and God hardening hearts.

An evil spirit from the Lord tormented Saul? I would like to hear only Catholic views on this.

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The general interpretation is that God was giving special peace and strength to the heart of the King and He withdrew that and allowed the devil to distress the heart of Saul. This was so Saul would call for music to calm his heart and then....enter David. A case of God allowing the devil to think he has the upper hand but bringing about God's glory out of evil. Saul still has the free will to try to sooth his anxiety and fear from the evil spirit in other ways. But God knows that he will call for David and great things will happen.

Davidnic said:

Another theory I have read is that since God knows all time He knows if that person would have ever come to Him, and ever accepted the Grace to make the right decisions. So knowing that the person would never have used their free will for the good (or never use it for good did based on Gods knowledge of time); God then hardens the heart to make a point or bring about some good, like showing His wonders to free Israel. So it does not abridge the free will of the person but works to take their rejection and bring good out of it for the plan of Salvation.

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I would agree with this to a point...that point being I don't see anything in scripture to indicate that the hardening that God causes is permanent but rather is always temporary for a purpose. Thus in my way of looking at it, the person does not loss free will for any reason but God works within His knowledge to use that to further the kingdom.....hope that makes sense.

not catholic, sorry...please ignore my comments. My sincere apology

razzelflabben said:

I would agree with this to a point...that point being I don't see anything in scripture to indicate that the hardening that God causes is permanent but rather is always temporary for a purpose. Thus in my way of looking at it, the person does not loss free will for any reason but God works within His knowledge to use that to further the kingdom.....hope that makes sense.

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It makes sense. Essentially that God does not harden when it comes to a case where He prevents the free willed choice to ultimately accept God when it comes to being Saved.

These things are always shrouded in His mystery. All I know for sure is if I had to rely on myself alone to get where God wills in life, I would be lost. So I thank God for even the trials that have brought me closer to Him. He alone knows all.

Michie said:

No please... You are fine. I have enjoyed reading your comments.

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thanks...I have a very bad habit of just looking for interesting discussions and not paying attention to the forum they are in. I was warned for that once and don't want to break that rule again. Again I am sorry and do appreciate your kindness. Again, thanks

razzelflabben said:

Today as I was studying the schemes of Satan I came to David calling for a census in I Chronicles 21...there it says that Satan enticed David to call for a census. The same story in II Samuel 24 tells us that God stirred up David

It seems to me that what we are really talking about when we talk about God hardening peoples hearts is that He permits Satan and men to have it their way sometimes. Kind of like giving them over to their evil minds.

However, that being said we also know from scripture that God created and ordained Pharoah for the "task" of revealing His power to the people. IOW's a specific instance.

Thus we would have two different issues when talking about God hardening hearts,
1. is there a special purpose
2. is this just permission given as in the case of Job

Just my thoughts for what it's worth.

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Agree no satan just your own evil mind.

he-man said:

Agree no satan just your own evil mind.

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I was trying to say it was both...my husband said it this way. David had a thought and Satan used that thought to entice him to sin.

I am printing it out so I can go over it slowly with some tea when the kids go to sleep. Msgr. Pope is always thought provoking.