Could Cardinal Sarah bring an end to the liturgy wars?

Michie · Jul 23, 2017

Pope Benedict XVI explained that he permitted the two missals to coexist not merely to satisfy the wishes of certain groups of the faithful, but also to allow for the mutual enrichment of the two firms of the Roman rite.

Continued below.
Could Cardinal Sarah Bring an End to the Liturgy Wars?

eastcoast_bsc · Jul 23, 2017

I wonder how Pope Francis will react to these suggestions. His past remarks regarding youth who liked the Traditional Mass was scathing.

Asked about the liturgy, Pope Francis insisted the Mass reformed after the Second Vatican Council is here to stay and “to speak of a ‘reform of the reform’ is an error.

In authorizing regular use of the older Mass, now referred to as the “extraordinary form,” now-retired Pope Benedict XVI was “magnanimous” toward those attached to the old liturgy, he said. “But it is an exception.”

Pope Francis told Father Spadaro he wonders why some young people, who were not raised with the old Latin Mass, nevertheless prefer it.

“And I ask myself: Why so much rigidity? Dig, dig, this rigidity always hides something, insecurity or even something else. Rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid.”

pdudgeon · Jul 24, 2017

I like several of Cardinal Sera's points from the article.

Stabat Mater dolorosa · Jul 24, 2017

eastcoast_bsc said:
I wonder how Pope Francis will react to these suggestions. His past remarks regarding youth who liked the Traditional Mass was scathing.

Not scathing as much as out of touch.
How is it even possible for a person of my age to be RIGID and still love a mass that one hasn't been used to since childhood?

Wouldn't rigidity for such person to be to love and adore the NO mass?

Davidnic · Jul 24, 2017

I love both masses. The NO formed my love for God. I can not dispute the beauty of a reverently done NO. It is amazing.

But my family (me included) does love the beauty of the Tridentine. My little girl loves when it is offered locally and watches old videos of it. She calls Latin "the beautiful language"

And we evidenced no preference for her to imitate except reverence and love for both forms when attending. She is the least ridged person and is a whirlwind of noise, joy and motion each day. But she prefers TLM if available.

Stabat Mater dolorosa · Jul 24, 2017

Davidnic said:
I love both masses. The NO formed my love for God. I can not dispute the beauty of a reverently done NO. It is amazing.

But my family (me included) does love the beauty of the Tridentine. My little girl loves when it is offered locally and watches old videos of it. She calls Latin "the beautiful language"

And we evidenced no preference for her to imitate except reverence and love for both forms when attending. She is the least ridged person and is a whirlwind of noise, joy and motion each day. But she prefers TLM if available.

And yet, according to pope Francis she is one of the rigid ones.
It's just plain nonsense to describe your daughter as so.

Vere dignum et iustum est, invisibilem Deum Patrem omnipotentem

Very rigid and not at all beautiful and godly or devoted...(sarcasm")

Davidnic · Jul 24, 2017

And I can see why he would describe toxic traditionalism that way. It, just like, liberal theology, gazes inward.

But the Pope, I think, has been hardened by encounters with some and I pray he gets to see the young, devoted Catholics, steeped in Charity and beauty who draw that from TLM and Traditionalism. There are many...many of them at each World Youth Day.

pdudgeon · Jul 24, 2017

Davidnic said:
And I can see why he would describe toxic traditionalism that way. It, just like, liberal theology, gazes inward.

But the Pope, I think, has been hardened by encounters with some and I pray he gets to see the young, devoted Catholics, steeped in Charity and beauty who draw that from TLM and Traditionalism. There are many...many of them at each World Youth Day.

I would beg to differ with your assessment in the first paragraph. If that were true, Christians from the beginning would have rejected the OT in favor of the NT, while not understanding that each mirrors the other from a different perspective.

It is the same with the masses.

Davidnic · Jul 24, 2017

Toxic Traditionalism is different from Traditionalism. Toxic Traditionalism and the liberal theology growing out of Schleiermacher and others are just two sides of a self concerned cafeteria who make God in their image.

Stabat Mater dolorosa · Jul 24, 2017

Davidnic said:
Toxic Traditionalism is different from Traditionalism. Toxic Traditionalism and the liberal theology growing out of Schleiermacher and others are just two sides of a self concerned cafeteria who make God in their image.

Schleiermacher, perhaps the 19th century's worst heretic regardless of denomination. Not my cup of tea.
I'm more found of the works of Karl Barth, a great theologian.

Davidnic · Jul 24, 2017

Schleiermacher is responsible for a very heretical Christology. Father Barron has said that most of the problems coming out of post-modernism come from all the people who rushed down the Schleiermacher autobaun.

Stabat Mater dolorosa · Jul 24, 2017

Davidnic said:
Schleiermacher is responsible for a very heretical Christology. Father Barron has said that most of the problems coming out of post-modernism come from all the people who rushed down the Schleiermacher autobaun.

A interesting similarity between the two of them is the broad influence they've enjoyed in Christianity as a whole.

Both men became loved and embraced across denominational lines one for his orthodoxy and the other for his heterodoxy.

But I digress.
I agree that the works of Schleiermacher has had a big impact and is sadly still alive today.

eastcoast_bsc · Jul 24, 2017

Davidnic said:
And I can see why he would describe toxic traditionalism that way. It, just like, liberal theology, gazes inward.

But the Pope, I think, has been hardened by encounters with some and I pray he gets to see the young, devoted Catholics, steeped in Charity and beauty who draw that from TLM and Traditionalism. There are many...many of them at each World Youth Day.

And that was my point. The young guys and girls should be applauded. They live in a time when it is increasingly more difficult to be young, faithful and chaste.

My early years in the church were steeped in Latin. The Latin high Mass particularly stood out. I loved how that sang the mass almost as if it was chant.

This should never be discouraged.

Michie · Jul 26, 2017

Cardinal Sarah: One holy Catholic liturgy, one holy Catholic Church.

https://adoremus.org/2017/07/05/cardinal-sarah-one-holy-catholic-liturgy-one-holy-catholic-church/

Could Cardinal Sarah bring an end to the liturgy wars?

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