Evening (Sunset) and Morning (Sunrise) = 1 Day

YHWH_will_uplift · Jul 23, 2017

visionary said:
Just think the Sabbath has no daylight according to this presentation... hence it is just a rest at night.

Sorry sister but, there is a day portion for the Sabbath which can only occur on the seventh day. When night comes the day is over as well as the Sabbath: therefore when the seventh day has concluded the seventh night begins; when the seventh night has concluded then the first day begins. Hope that helps.

chunkofcoal · Jul 23, 2017

YHWH_will_uplift said:
I'd love to hear input from others concerning this topic. This new understanding has been a tremendous blessing to me and my family.

How has this "new understanding" been a "tremendous blessing" to you and your family? You seem very excited about it so I'm curious what it means to you.

visionary · Jul 23, 2017

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Sorry sister but, there is a day portion for the Sabbath which can only occur on the seventh day. When night comes the day is over as well as the Sabbath: therefore when the seventh day has concluded the seventh night begins; when the seventh night has concluded then the first day begins. Hope that helps.

I get where the sabbath start for you,,... it is where it ends ??... if you think that the start of the sunrise is the only hour ~~of the sabbath day time??.. then I understand.. if not, please clarify~~

AbbaLove · Jul 23, 2017

YHWH_will_uplift said:
You and others really aren't making the connections are you? The days and years are connected to the motions of the luminaries in heaven:

What has convinced you that Messianics in this forum don't believe the days and years are connected to the motions of the luminaries in heaven? It does seem as if you have been accusing Messianic Judaism for being ignorant of the Word of YHWH. What Messianic in this forum is yet to disagree with your following explanation of the motions of the heavens ...

12 Constellations
12 Months
12 Hours

360 Degrees
360 Days
36 Moments

1 Week = 7 Days
Pleiades = 7 Sisters

4 Winds of Heaven
4 Corners of the Earth
4 Cardinal Directions
4 Seasons

Circle of the earth (see Isaiah)
Compass on the face of the deep (see Proverbs)

YHWH_will_uplift said:
And please stop misquoting me. And your passage from Isaiah only proved that all in heaven will still be observing the Sabbath

I quoted your previous post word for word as follows. If this isn't what you mean you can go back and edit it to express your true intent. It's found in your post #52 within lines 11-13 ...

YHWH_will_uplift said:
I could care less if the whole world observed Sabbath from sunset to sunset: scripture is clear about when the day starts and ends, and the length of its duration.

I've previously indicated that by age 6, it was my understanding that a 12 hr day was from sunrise to sunset. Fortunately my Mother was an excellent teacher that didn't mix light and darkness together as did Babylon and Egypt.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
... our confusion over time is a result of mixing light and darkness together: and this we got from following the footsteps of Babylon and Egypt

My Mother taught her children at an early age to believe what you also believe properly interrupting the Word of God and not disagreeing, but rather agreeing with what you posted in your #1 reply shown below ...

"God tells us plainly through Moses that He separated the Light from the Darkness: this is to indicate that these two periods of time are never to be mixed. In Genesis 1:14-19 we read that the sun rules over the day and the moon and stars rule over the night and, they divide the light from the darkness (cf. Psalms 136:7-9). The sun rules the day meaning that the morning is when the Sun rises from the east to mark the beginning of the day; noon is when the Sun is at its highest point in the sky to mark the middle of the day in the north; and, evening is when the Sun sets in the west to mark the end of the day: therefore Evening and Morning are only part of the time when the Sun is out. By the time the Sun is completely gone then it is no longer evening (i.e. the day time) but, night time."

By the time my sister and i (we are twins) attended the one room rural school house we generally understood what you have shown below. However, as a child i remember during certain months of the year when i could faintly see the moon during the day and sometimes even high in the sky during daytime. I'd assumed that all Messianics also believe the same as what you've previously posted with the exception being your definition of Moonrise as the (Beginning of Night) and Moonset being the (End of Night) as further shown by that link at the bottom of this page post ...

Day
Morning (Beginning of Day)
Noon (Middle of Day)
Evening (End of Day)
____________________________
Night
Moonrise (Beginning of Night)
Midnight (Middle of Night)
Moonset (End of Night)

Moonrise and Moonset occurs at different times throughout the 12 Months. According to Moonrise (Beginning of Night) on July 30, Night is forecast to begin in Jerusalem at 12:44 pm and Moonset (End of Night) is forecast to occur at 12:17 am on July 31.
Moonrise, Moonset, and Moon Phase in Jerusalem, July 2017

YHWH_will_uplift · Jul 24, 2017

chunkofcoal said:
How has this "new understanding" been a "tremendous blessing" to you and your family? You seem very excited about it so I'm curious what it means to you.

What it means to me is that I am no longer confused about how time is defined according to God as I can now see the clear separation between Light and Darkness. If you read post #91 of this thread then you will see my point illustrated clearly. And I find it funny that though many attempt to impose a 24 Hour Day onto the Bible they do not have a single verse supporting them implicitly or explicitly. On the contrary the Bible mentions quite clearly that there are only 12 Hours of Day Light or 12 Hours in a Day (see Matthew 20:1-9 cf. John 11:9). Time is super important to God as He created it and made holy days to be observed at very specific times throughout the year. It's also exciting because now that I know how a day is correctly defined in scripture I can observe the holy days much more precisely without worrying about not being able to defend myself.

chunkofcoal · Jul 24, 2017

YHWH_will_uplift said:
What it means to me is that I am no longer confused about how time is defined according to God as I can now see the clear separation between Light and Darkness. If you read post #91 of this thread then you will see my point illustrated clearly. And I find it funny that though many attempt to impose a 24 Hour Day onto the Bible they do not have a single verse supporting them implicitly or explicitly. On the contrary the Bible mentions quite clearly that there are only 12 Hours of Day Light or 12 Hours in a Day (see Matthew 20:1-9 cf. John 11:9). Time is super important to God as He created it and made holy days to be observed at very specific times throughout the year. It's also exciting because now that I know how a day is correctly defined in scripture I can observe the holy days much more precisely without worrying about not being able to defend myself.

Ok. Thank you.

YHWH_will_uplift · Jul 24, 2017

chunkofcoal said:
Ok. Thank you.

You're welcome.

AbbaLove · Jul 24, 2017

YHWH_will_uplift said:
What it means to me is that I am no longer confused about how time is defined according to God as I can now see the clear separation between Light and Darkness.

Day
Morning (Beginning of Day)
Noon (Middle of Day)
Evening (End of Day)
____________________________
Night
Moonrise (Beginning of Night)
Midnight (Middle of Night)
Moonset (End of Night)

Night is determined by the absence of sunshine NOT by the phases of the moon as hopefully you now realize. God designed it that way for 12 hours of Day and 12 hours of Night based on the position of the sun in relation to earth NOT the position of a moon phase in relation to earth.

So what all this discussion in the two threads seems to boil down to is that you strongly object to a 24 hr timeline (Day/Night or Night/Day) NOT be referred to as a solar Day. So, what word would you suggest that Messianic Judaism call a 24 hr period of sunshine and darkness?

miknik5 · Mar 18, 2019

I want to understand why this matters if we are children of the light?

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 18, 2019

miknik5 said:
I want to understand why this matters if we are children of the light?

Hello sister. This matters because after finding out the truth about what a day is according to God then that means that what we have been taught as a "day" is actually man made. The other reason is that if my kids ask me what God has to say about a certain subject I want to be prepared to answer them so that they know the truth. Before I got saved there were so many things I learned from the world that I had to let go of after hearing what God has to say about the same subjects.

miknik5 · Mar 18, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Hello sister. This matters because after finding out the truth about what a day is according to God then that means that what we have been taught as a "day" is actually man made. The other reason is that if my kids ask me what God has to say about a certain subject I want to be prepared to answer them so that they know the truth. Before I got saved there were so many things I learned from the world that I had to let go of after hearing what God has to say about the same subjects.

It doesn’t matter. CHRIST already forewarned is to walk while we have the light lest darkness overcome us

And John, through The Spirit, further reiterates this when he reminds us that we are children of The Light

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 18, 2019

miknik5 said:
I want to understand why this matters if we are children of the light?

miknik5 said:
It doesn’t matter. CHRIST already forewarned is to walk while we have the light lest darkness overcome us

And John, through The Spirit, further reiterates this when he reminds us that we are children of The Light

Well...sister...I thought you wanted to understand why it matters? I am confused here...do you want to understand why it matters or just say it doesn't matter?

While it is true what Christ said about walking in the light lest darkness overtake us knowing the truth is part of walking in the light as God and Jesus are in the light.

gadar perets · Mar 22, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
360° ÷ 12 Months = 30° per Month
360° ÷ 04 Seasons = 90° per Season

Each degree therefore equals one day:

360 Days ÷ 12 Months = 30 Days per Month
360 Days ÷ 04 Seasons = 90 Days per Season

As I understand it, astronomical seasons can vary from 89-93 days each. Does the calendar you use allow for these variations or is it strictly 90 says person season?

gadar perets · Mar 22, 2019

Mark 1:32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.

The sun set ending the Sabbath Day, at which time it was acceptable to bring people to be healed since they were taught healing was forbidden on the Sabbath.

This also suggests that "even" (evening) was not part of the Sabbath. Otherwise, healing would have been forbidden at even as well until the night began.

gadar perets · Mar 22, 2019

Mark 14:30 And Yeshua saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.

This seems to suggest that "day" can refer to the "night" as well. It would not be the "day" of the daylight period, but of the "day" from sunset to sunset.

gadar perets · Mar 22, 2019

Mark 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

How do you understand this verse? It seems to refer to an evening prior to sunset. However, if the evening starts after sunset, then it seems Joseph would not have enough time to request Yeshua's body, bring it somewhere, wrap it and apply the burial spices, transport it to the tomb, and seal the tomb, within the twilight period.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 22, 2019

gadar perets said:
As I understand it, astronomical seasons can vary from 89-93 days each. Does the calendar you use allow for these variations or is it strictly 90 says person season?

Well from the information I have gathered the math plays out strictly to 90 Days per Season with one intercalary day at the end of each season. The math would be as follows:

52 Weeks / 4 Seasons = 13 Weeks per Season
13 Weeks x 7 Days = 91 Days per Season

Finally we divide the year into quarters...

360 Days / 4 Seasons = 90 Days per Season

The above is proof that there is always one intercalary day at the end of each season.

gadar perets said:
Mark 1:32 And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased, and them that were possessed with devils.

The sun set ending the Sabbath Day, at which time it was acceptable to bring people to be healed since they were taught healing was forbidden on the Sabbath.

This also suggests that "even" (evening) was not part of the Sabbath. Otherwise, healing would have been forbidden at even as well until the night began.

Slight correction here brother, the beginning of the passage says: "And at even, when the sun did set[...]" this is clear that when the sun has set the day is truly over. After this point there would be twilight (i.e. neither day nor night), and this would be followed by night. And let us not forget that Moses writes that evening and morning are part of the day (Genesis 1:1-5 ff.) and, that the waxing of light signals the morning while the waning of the light signals evening.

gadar perets said:
Mark 14:30 And Yeshua saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.

This seems to suggest that "day" can refer to the "night" as well. It would not be the "day" of the daylight period, but of the "day" from sunset to sunset.

The phrase: "[...]That this day, even in this night, before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow twice[...]" is clearly speaking of the early morning periods, which is twilight (i.e. the time between the mornings or the time between the evenings); and, furthermore the rooster never crows to signal the end of the day (i.e. evening) but, the beginning of the day (i.e. morning).

gadar perets said:
Mark 15:42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

How do you understand this verse? It seems to refer to an evening prior to sunset. However, if the evening starts after sunset, then it seems Joseph would not have enough time to request Yeshua's body, bring it somewhere, wrap it and apply the burial spices, transport it to the tomb, and seal the tomb, within the twilight period.

When God created the heavens and the earth, and the light and the darkness what did Moses write?

"And God called the light Day and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day".
Genesis 1:5

And on the fourth day of the week God created the Sun, Moon and stars: therefore sunset follows the evening but, does not precede it.

visionary · Mar 22, 2019

AbbaLove said:
What has convinced you that Messianics in this forum don't believe the days and years are connected to the motions of the luminaries in heaven? It does seem as if you have been accusing Messianic Judaism for being ignorant of the Word of YHWH. What Messianic in this forum is yet to disagree with your following explanation of the motions of the heavens ...

12 Constellations
12 Months
12 Hours

360 Degrees
360 Days
36 Moments

1 Week = 7 Days
Pleiades = 7 Sisters

4 Winds of Heaven
4 Corners of the Earth
4 Cardinal Directions
4 Seasons

Circle of the earth (see Isaiah)
Compass on the face of the deep (see Proverbs)

I quoted your previous post word for word as follows. If this isn't what you mean you can go back and edit it to express your true intent. It's found in your post #52 within lines 11-13 ...

I've previously indicated that by age 6, it was my understanding that a 12 hr day was from sunrise to sunset. Fortunately my Mother was an excellent teacher that didn't mix light and darkness together as did Babylon and Egypt.

My Mother taught her children at an early age to believe what you also believe properly interrupting the Word of God and not disagreeing, but rather agreeing with what you posted in your #1 reply shown below ...

"God tells us plainly through Moses that He separated the Light from the Darkness: this is to indicate that these two periods of time are never to be mixed. In Genesis 1:14-19 we read that the sun rules over the day and the moon and stars rule over the night and, they divide the light from the darkness (cf. Psalms 136:7-9). The sun rules the day meaning that the morning is when the Sun rises from the east to mark the beginning of the day; noon is when the Sun is at its highest point in the sky to mark the middle of the day in the north; and, evening is when the Sun sets in the west to mark the end of the day: therefore Evening and Morning are only part of the time when the Sun is out. By the time the Sun is completely gone then it is no longer evening (i.e. the day time) but, night time."

By the time my sister and i (we are twins) attended the one room rural school house we generally understood what you have shown below. However, as a child i remember during certain months of the year when i could faintly see the moon during the day and sometimes even high in the sky during daytime. I'd assumed that all Messianics also believe the same as what you've previously posted with the exception being your definition of Moonrise as the (Beginning of Night) and Moonset being the (End of Night) as further shown by that link at the bottom of this page post ...

Day
Morning (Beginning of Day)
Noon (Middle of Day)
Evening (End of Day)
____________________________
Night
Moonrise (Beginning of Night)
Midnight (Middle of Night)
Moonset (End of Night)

Moonrise and Moonset occurs at different times throughout the 12 Months. According to Moonrise (Beginning of Night) on July 30, Night is forecast to begin in Jerusalem at 12:44 pm and Moonset (End of Night) is forecast to occur at 12:17 am on July 31.
Moonrise, Moonset, and Moon Phase in Jerusalem, July 2017

What do you do with the times that the moon rises and sets while the sun is up?

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 22, 2019

visionary said:
What do you do with the times that the moon rises and sets while the sun is up?

I will explain that in that post I was looking for a way to explain the beginning, middle, and end of the night. In response to what you asked though, this observation will simply prove that the Moon at times wanders from it's course and, this would most likely help us understand why the Moon falls behind the Sun ten days each year.

gadar perets · Mar 22, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Well from the information I have gathered the math plays out strictly to 90 Days per Season with one intercalary day at the end of each season. The math would be as follows:

52 Weeks / 4 Seasons = 13 Weeks per Season
13 Weeks x 7 Days = 91 Days per Season

Finally we divide the year into quarters...

360 Days / 4 Seasons = 90 Days per Season

The above is proof that there is always one intercalary day at the end of each season.

"Professor Jay Pasachoff of Williams College has made very precise calculations. Spring, he says, lasts 92 days, 19 hours; summer 93 days, 15 hours; autumn, 89 days, 20 hours; winter, 89 days, zero hours." Not All Seasons Are Created Equal

Slight correction here brother, the beginning of the passage says: "And at even, when the sun did set[...]" this is clear that when the sun has set the day is truly over. After this point there would be twilight (i.e. neither day nor night), and this would be followed by night. And let us not forget that Moses writes that evening and morning are part of the day (Genesis 1:1-5 ff.) and, that the waxing of light signals the morning while the waning of the light signals evening.

Sorry, I misunderstood your OP to say a day ended when evening ended and night began.

The phrase: "[...]That this day, even in this night, before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow twice[...]" is clearly speaking of the early morning periods, which is twilight (i.e. the time between the mornings or the time between the evenings); and, furthermore the rooster never crows to signal the end of the day (i.e. evening) but, the beginning of the day (i.e. morning).

Here you say the morning is twilight, but your OP says morning is at sunrise. Does morning start before or after sunrise? Does evening start before or after sunset? Or are both moments in time occurring at both sunrise and/or sunset?

As I understand it, roosters crow prior to sunrise. Therefore, Yeshua is calling the time before sunrise both "night" and "day".

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