JacksBratt

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Repentance makes life a whole lot easier.
Good luck with that.

It's pretty obvious that if you are a christian, and you are not facing trials in you life.... you better take a look at your living style. The closer you walk with God, the more trials people seem to face.

Repentance may give you the clear conscience and lift the burden of guilt from your shoulders but it will not make you life on this earth easy.

Jesus never said that becoming a child of God would give you a clean path to walk. Quite the opposite

As for this being heaven.... not likely.


Check out what life will be like in heaven and compare it to here.

Our eternal life may start as soon as we are saved, but heaven... that's for after death or the rapture.

In the end, eternity will be spent on a new earth, not in heaven. The old heaven and old earth will pass away. The new heaven will descend to the new earth and we will abide with our God, and Him with us forever.
 
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dqhall

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That's another way to look at it and the other view I've been considering myself. It matches certian scriptures such as the one you mentioned where he mentions not everyone who says lord lord, scriptures that clearly point towards heaven being the new Jerusalem
I would not know what this fellow saw in his vision. As far as I know Jesus ascended to heaven and Jerusalem stayed on the ground. Based on archaeology and historical data, the Jerusalem we have today is much larger than anything that could have been imagined 2000 years ago. There are miles of urban sprawl on down the mountain along the highway towards Tel Aviv. People start honking their horns if the traffic is not moving as fast as they like. I do not find much description about this New Jerusalem in the Bible and can't give much credit as not much was revealed.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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I would not know what this fellow saw in his vision. As far as I know Jesus ascended to heaven and Jerusalem stayed on the ground. Based on archaeology and historical data, the Jerusalem we have today is much larger than anything that could have been imagined 2000 years ago. There are miles of urban sprawl on down the mountain along the highway towards Tel Aviv. People start honking their horns if the traffic is not moving as fast as they like. I do not find much description about this New Jerusalem in the Bible and can't give much credit as not much was revealed.
? I guess where I'm confused on is what is your view of new Jerusalem like you don't believe it's heaven is what you're saying? Just trying to understand your view
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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Well, heaven is what our life turns into when we repent of our sin. Heaven is the plan the Lord has for each of us if we'd only do things his way. You might not think you are in heaven but I think you will learn differently.
The bible does not say this in any place. We do not have the right to redefine what God has defined for us...
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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When you have peace of mind, you have heaven. That comes with repentance.
You are using the word "heaven" as a philosophy.

The bible does this instead;
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
 
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dreadnought

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You still didn't answer my question. But I mean the kingdom of God is like being in heaven at least in the spiritual sense. You have the fruit of the spirit when your saved such as peace and joy even though the world itself lacks those things. So for me that verse is referring to the kingdom of God Jesus seems to emphasize how this kingdom is like heaven on Earth he's not saying it is heaven though. In fact the Bible says the location of heaven itself has no pain, that is never stated to be the case with this kingdom that a saved person can walk in on Earth. In fact Jesus even says think not they I am come to bring peace on earth, and the Bible lets us know that they that live godly will suffer persecution, which involves pain and sadness which the Bible says heaven doesn't have. The kingdom of God or heaven on Earth isn't the new heaven those that are saved can go to when he returns.
I didn't answer your question because I didn't know what you were referring to. You said "it [heaven] is measured." What did you mean by that? But I will answer your question anyway. I know by personal experience what happens if I repent of my sin. The transformation in my life is indescribable. Well, not totally indescribable. Matthew 4:17 describes it perfectly: The kingdom of heaven.
 
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JESUS=G.O.A.T

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I didn't answer your question because I didn't know what you were referring to. You said "it [heaven] is measured." What did you mean by that? But I will answer your question anyway. I know by personal experience what happens if I repent of my sin. The transformation in my life is indescribable. Well, not totally indescribable. Matthew 4:17 describes it perfectly: The kingdom of heaven.
I posted the scriptures for you revelations 21:15-17 where new Jerusalem (considered by many to be heaven) is measured
 
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dreadnought

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Jesus did not mean to imply we are already in heaven. The idea He was trying to get across to the people was that the kingdom of heaven was near. In other words, the Day of judgment is closer to you than you think, and you need to get right with God. Time is running out. Stop playing games. Repent.

Matthew 7:21 NKJV: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

Notice how Jesus says, "shall enter the kingdom of heaven". This tells us that this event is yet future, that we aren't there yet. He also says the Father is "in heaven". In other words, heaven is a real place where God is, and if we want to be there with Him, then we must do His will.

Matthew 7:22-23 NKJV "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'"

Jesus is making it clear that not all who say they are His followers are speaking the truth. In other words, there are fakes out there. They look religious, and use the name of Jesus; yet, they don't have a relationship with Him.

Jesus also speaks of a coming day when this will happen. Which day is He referring to? The day of the harvest when the wheat will be separated from the tares—the Day of judgment.

Matthew 13:30 NKJV "Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 NKJV "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

John 5:28-29 NKJV "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."

This has not yet happened; therefore, we are not in heaven. But we should prepare our hearts for heaven by getting right with God; for the day of God's wrath is drawing nearer day by day.
We cannot know what Jesus meant until we do what he told us to do.
 
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dreadnought

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I posted the scriptures for you revelations 21:15-17 where new Jerusalem (considered by many to be heaven) is measured
I believe the measurements you are referring to are for Jerusalem, the city that comes down out of the sky from heaven. And the resurrection will be a real place, indeed. But I think you will find some symbolism in Revelation.
 
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JohnRabbit

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read the article you referenced but still don't think it expresses what Jesus was saying.

here's the deal on what Jesus was saying, (this is a repost of mine) :oldthumbsup:

**REPOST**

most have misunderstood luke 17:21 by reading it out of context!

let's see what the verse really says!



Luke 17:20-21(NKJV)
20
Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
21nor will they say, See here! or ‘See there! For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.

the article was correct in focusing on the fact that Jesus was answering the pharisees (verse 20). so, for those who believe that the kingdom of God is "within you", would have to believe that Jesus was saying, that the people He called hypocrites, had the kingdom of God within them!

that simply wouldn't make sense!

the word "within" in the verse is "entos" in the greek (strong's G1787) which means "inside" or "within".

"entos" comes from the root "en" (strong's G1722), which can have the meaning "among".

here's where the article and my understanding of the verse differ:

Jesus is part of the kingdom of God, just like a rose is part of the plant kingdom. so, Jesus was telling the pharisees that the "kingdom of God" was standing there "within" their midst or standing there "among" them!

notice the next verse:


Luke 17:22(NKJV)
22
Then He said to the disciples,The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

notice He references Himself in verse 22, He was standing right there for them to see!

now notice, the kindom doesn't enter us, we are to enter into it! (see matt 19:34, mark 10:15, 23-25)

we are to inherit the kingdom, matt 25:34.
 
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woobadooba

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We cannot know what Jesus meant until we do what he told us to do.
We can know what Jesus meant by saying, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand," by doing proper biblical exegesis. You aren't doing that here. Instead, you are reading meaning into the Scriptures that isn't there, misrepresenting the words of Jesus. What you have done here falls under the category of false teaching. Several people, including myself, have tried to help you see your error, but you won't listen.
 
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dreadnought

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We can know what Jesus meant by saying, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand," by doing proper biblical exegesis. You aren't doing that here. Instead, you are reading meaning into the Scriptures that isn't there, misrepresenting the words of Jesus. What you have done here falls under the category of false teaching. Several people, including myself, have tried to help you see your error, but you won't listen.
No, we can know what Jesus meant by saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand," by repenting.
 
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dreadnought

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My advice to you is to take a course on biblical exegesis. It will be helpful to you.
No. Obedience is the straightest path to knowledge. In fact, it is the only path.
 
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woobadooba

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No. Obedience is the straightest path to knowledge. In fact, it is the only path.
God wants us to speak the truth. If we speak falsehood, then we are not being obedient to God. So you better make sure you have the truth before attempting to teach others, for if you are teaching what is false, then you are not being obedient to God. I am trying to help you, but you don't seem to be open to correction. An unteachable spirit is a prideful spirit, and being prideful also goes against what God wants.
 
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dreadnought

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God wants us to speak the truth. If we speak falsehood, then we are not being obedient to God. So you better make sure you have the truth before attempting to teach others, for if you are teaching what is false, then you are not being obedient to God. I am trying to help you, but you don't seem to be open to correction. An unteachable spirit is a prideful spirit, and being prideful also goes against what God wants.
You need to understand that you can't understand Jesus until you obey him.
 
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JohnRabbit

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God wants us to speak the truth. If we speak falsehood, then we are not being obedient to God. So you better make sure you have the truth before attempting to teach others, for if you are teaching what is false, then you are not being obedient to God. I am trying to help you, but you don't seem to be open to correction. An unteachable spirit is a prideful spirit, and being prideful also goes against what God wants.
i thought psalms 111:10 was clear!
 
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