The Difference Between Conservatives and Liberals

OldWiseGuy said:

Kinda like a 'red herring'.

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Sorry - I am hard of herring.

Dave-W said:

Sorry - I am hard of herring.

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I'll venture a guess that you don't understand my meaning?

Me being a 'red herring' in this case is that I am so far from the ordinary that I stick out like a sore thumb, detracts from the norm, and am quickly discarded. In other words to emulated my behavior regarding the shopping carts is, well, unthinkable.

I love to use the shopping cart example as typical human behavior. It's so simple yet so revealing.

It was a pun, son .....

Dave-W said:

It was a pun, son .....

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Sorry, I seized upon the opportunity (Paul said, "Be apt to teach").

OldWiseGuy said:

My very liberal sister used to toss that into the conversation when it wasn't going too well for her.

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When that happened with my extremely conservative father he would "Harumph! Where ignorance is bliss, t'is folly to be wise" and then stomp off.

JackRT said:

When that happened with my extremely conservative father he would "Harumph! Where ignorance is bliss, t'is folly to be wise" and then stomp off.

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My dad would say, with a twinkle in his eye, "Never argue with someone that you have to educate first."

OldWiseGuy said:

My dad would say, with a twinkle in his eye, "Never argue with someone that you have to educate first."

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My nephew once said: "Never argue with someone who thinks of himself as your teacher."

Or "never argue with a fool. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

quatona said:

My nephew once said: "Never argue with someone who thinks of himself as your teacher."

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Com'on, you just made that up.

OldWiseGuy said:

Com'on, you just made that up.

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I don´t even have a nephew, to begin with.

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jayem said:

You'll like hearing the expanded version. Which is even more accurate:

"Opinions are like a$$h***s. Everybody has one. And most of them stink."

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That's harsh man ( but I sorta agree).

You might want to change that as the mods are not very forgiving when it comes to the swear filter.

OldWiseGuy said:

Exactly. But it's hard to follow Jesus's teachings if you don't know what they are. Too many preachers preach the 'hereafter' and ignore the 'here and now'. The visible church seems to be more involved in politics and materialism than in spiritual things.

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It really isn't difficult to find out what Jesus' teachings are. Pick up a Red Letter edition of the Bible and read the red words. You are right, however, about the preachers. And that dovetails right into my assessment of the religion.

Jesus taught a Way of Life and not a Belief System. My understanding of what Jesus was trying to convey is that loving behavior in the physical realm is how people create their 'treasury' in the Kingdom. The money people acquire in this realm stays in this realm when one dies. If that is all one has accumulated in this life, one arrives at the Kingdom dirt poor.

And that dovetails into why Jesus said in Mark 9 that he who wants to be the greatest has to be the servant of all.

The religion and its preachers simply do not teach the message of Jesus. They teach the message of 'salvation' demanded of them by the religion. And it is that message of salvation which makes people slaves to the religion and not messengers of Jesus.

People spend their lives trying to 'save' people and not being a living example of Jesus' teachings. And they are not putting treasure in the Kingdom by behaving in a loving manner to everyone they come across.

Remember the Second Great Commandment??? We all want to be loved and have others treat us like we are loved. Jesus people do that.

Dave-W said:

Sorry - I am hard of herring.

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I think that you said that on porpoise just for the halibut.

JackRT said:

I think that you said that on porpoise just for the halibut.

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Groan (funny tho').

OldWiseGuy said:

Generally speaking,

Conservatism emphasizes the individual.
Liberalism emphasizes the group.

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I'd say that's not generally true. I'd say that centre-left liberalism focus' on the individual on social issues, but is about everyone economically.
Centre-right conservatism is about enforcing the collective morals, but economic survival of the fittest.

jayem said:

A fair assessment. And it translates into how they approach issues. When liberals see a problem, they want to spend money on it. When conservatives see a problem, they want to make it against the law.

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You could also say the liberal wants to allow if an act directly does no harm. (Individual)

But a conservative wants to ban because the act in general might be negative. (Group)

Foxfyre said:

Most modern day American conservatives are actually classical liberals of the Founders' variety. They most value individual liberty, responsibility, and accountability in matters of religion, politics, and social justice. The common good is most honorably accomplished via social contract decided by a free people and not by government dictate. The only rules, regulations, and expectations that are enforced are those necessary to maintain order and to prevent people from doing physical, economical, or environmental violence to each other. Otherwise people are allowed to believe, think, speak, and live their lives as they choose.

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That's only with regard to economics. With regard to morality, conservatives are all in everyone's bedroom.

jayem said:

Conservatives and liberals both want to impose rules on society. They just differ on what those rules should be.

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Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

As one pastor has said, Conservatives want to use government to force people to obey the first law; Liberals want to use government to force people to obey the second law.