Is singing + a sermon what church should be?

P92 said:

By and large, church services today across denominational lines generally fit this format.

Is this what the Father wants for worship? Are we honoring Him with this structure?

Surely, we must sing/praise, and surely there must be teaching, but is that the totality of what the assembly should busy itself with?

This is what the protestant church lacks today:

1. Fullness of worship, which includes heartfelt prayer (Acts 4:24-31) and reverence
2. Edification (1 Cor 14:26-33)
3. Equipping of parents to teach their children (Deut 6-9)
4. True fellowship (Titus 2:1-8, Acts 2:42-45)

Instead, we get 30-40 minutes of singing, some banter/jokes/woohoos/announcements, and a 30-40 minute message and beeline for Applebees.

Does this please the Father?

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I would agree with your assessment, but then that's why I became Catholic--to get closer to what God wants from us.

P92 said:

By and large, church services today across denominational lines generally fit this format.

Is this what the Father wants for worship? Are we honoring Him with this structure?

Surely, we must sing/praise, and surely there must be teaching, but is that the totality of what the assembly should busy itself with?

This is what the protestant church lacks today:

1. Fullness of worship, which includes heartfelt prayer (Acts 4:24-31) and reverence
2. Edification (1 Cor 14:26-33)
3. Equipping of parents to teach their children (Deut 6-9)
4. True fellowship (Titus 2:1-8, Acts 2:42-45)

Instead, we get 30-40 minutes of singing, some banter/jokes/woohoos/announcements, and a 30-40 minute message and beeline for Applebees.

Does this please the Father?

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What church are you talking about? Some churches fit the description but most Christianis attend churches that do not.

Near duplicate. See the following post.

P92 said:

Really, which ones?

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Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Reformed, Methodist, for starters.

A church is a Christian communal- it is where sermons are preached, charity is honored, and traditions are performed.
A lot of churches provide family services, often centered around children's upbringings and interests. Others give council to blossoming couples and marriages- there's a range of things that churches do.

But what a church is, before anything else, is a Christian body. That's what it was in 90AD and that's what it still is today.

P92 said:

Albion,

See my question to PDudgeon in post #4. Does the Presbyterian, RC, Orthodox, Lutheran church, for example, allow a time of sharing in its services? (1 Cor 14:26-33)

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The point you started us off with in the title of the thread and in the Original Post concerned what you said was what happens in "the Protestant church" and, also, what happens "across denominational lines."

My reply informed you that neither of those claims is well founded. Most churches, such as the ones named that represent the majority of Christians, emphatically do not fit the description you gave in the OP.

P92 said:

I only see mere assertion in the above.

So, let's restate the question to encompass all denominations (even though I initially had Protestants in mind)

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I would prefer to stay with the topic of this thread.

What makes you doubt that the many liturgical churches, such as the Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Episcopalian, Methodist, Lutheran and others, are more typical than the kinds of churches you were worried about--the ones that only sing and have a sermon? This is rather common knowledge.

P92 said:

Pdudgeon,

Question for you: do you do the following at mass?

1 Cor 14:

26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints

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unfortunately you have shown by your quoted reply to me that you do not have the correct interpretation of the verse you quoted, and therefore most likely do not understand the use of God's gifts aright.

Indeed when we come together at my parish there is excellent instruction in the homily which includes previous words from the Church Doctors, Prophets, Saints, Popes, and Martyrs. Our hymns are seasoned and scriptural and are sung by the whole body with gusto and feeling.
There is not a Sunday that goes by that communal prayers and/or offerings are not lifted up for the welfare of those around us who need them, which is also done by Our Lord's instructions.
And most importantly every single mass we receive the Body and Blood of Our Lord, Jesus Christ in a reverent and dignified fashion, always recalling our sins and offering up penance for them before we receive. In this way we, like the Apostle John before us, lean closer to the Breast of Jesus in our devoted love for Him, and our desire to be close to Him always.

So yes, I think that in our love and devotion we do indeed please God our Father.

P92 said:

Albion,

See my question to PDudgeon in post #4. Does the Presbyterian, RC, Orthodox, Lutheran church, for example, allow a time of sharing in its services? (1 Cor 14:26-33)

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Since you have included my name in your response above, I will gladly respond with "Why yes, we certainly do!"

In fact during the weekday morning mass it is very usual for us to bring our prayers and petitions and offer them up to the Lord on an individual basis, speaking as the Spirit leads us. The rest of the parish who are present affirm those same prayers with their own response.

P92 said:

Unfortunately you have shown by your reply to me that you do not have the correct interpretation of the verse you quoted, and therefore most likely do not understand the use of God's gifts aright.

The Apostle says:

"26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification..."

The Scripture could not be any clearer, referring to existing members of the church at the time it was spoken and also therefore, to the church today.

You do NOT do this and therefore fall short of the will of God for His people.

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Of it could be read as Paul giving a description of what is already happening and then saying how it should be instead.

P92 said:

By and large, church services today across denominational lines generally fit this format.

Is this what the Father wants for worship? Are we honoring Him with this structure?

Surely, we must sing/praise, and surely there must be teaching, but is that the totality of what the assembly should busy itself with?

This is what the protestant church lacks today:

1. Fullness of worship, which includes heartfelt prayer (Acts 4:24-31) and reverence
2. Edification (1 Cor 14:26-33)
3. Equipping of parents to teach their children (Deut 6-9)
4. True fellowship (Titus 2:1-8, Acts 2:42-45)

Instead, we get 30-40 minutes of singing, some banter/jokes/woohoos/announcements, and a 30-40 minute message and beeline for Applebees.

Does this please the Father?

Click to expand...

I can't speak to your church services, but ours manages to hit all four points above while also fitting into the "singing, announcements, message" format you describe. They are not mutually exclusive. If a more liturgical service is what you're after, there are many denominations available to provide that. Different people find edification in different ways. If we were all the same, Baskin Robbins could get rid of 30 flavors.

This is just my personal opinion, but Jesus ministry wasn't about teaching people to recite scripts and perform ceremonies. It was about teaching the word of God and how it applies to our lives, so I personally prefer a church service that follows that example. I want to walk out the door with knowledge that I lacked going in, and I never experienced that in my previous denomination.

I generally go to a more liturgical, lutheran church, and I have my reasons for it. I like having a more structured service as well, with clear spaces for different prayers, scriptures, sermon, communion and music. However I do share a concern for the lack of some very crucial elements in the typical church service. In my own church, I quite often wish there were more space for any random churchfgoer to open their mouths and give a testimony or prophesy or prayer or whatever. Right now the liturgical structure is so tight (or people view it that way) that they won't even consider taking it up with the pastor even if they had something to share. All true personal fellowship happens at the coffee hour after church, or, quite sadly, somewhere outside the walls of the church.

I randomly go to a pentecostal church too (like once a year) and they do have some very openhearted people, good fellowship and lots of possibilities for people to join in the services with whatever they have - music, testimonies, prophecies, whatever. But their sermons were often quite bad, with some questionable theology and Bible usage, and little moral support for any everyday life either. Somehow I also found the praywrs hard to agree to as well.

So yes, in my experience both kinds of churches (liturgical or non-liturgical) could have some serious flaws in their weekly sunday services. Compare them to scripture, or early church services, you'll find lots of differences. Many of them would be obvious flaws, some just differences of opinion and culture and what have you. On one hand, today you can always pick the church you want to go to so there's one obvious thing you can do if you're not pleased: go somewhere else. But on the other hand, is the grass greener on the other side? Will you be able to find your perfect match for a church where you live? Somehow I tend to like the idea best that it would be best to start a change for the better where you're at to make your current church a better one, more biblical, and one where you can serve others and expect to be served as well. Don't exoect the change to happen of itself, be the change.