Doctrines of Devils?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 21, 2017

amariselle said:
When it is imposed upon them by others, however, that is another matter.

".. another matter..." "... .a different master...." yes, Light and dark, life and death..., truth and falseness....

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 21, 2017

amariselle said:
What are you referring to here?

Jesus said that to be His, we must renounce, give up, speak against /society/ mankind/ man's religion/ etc etc/
To respect God's Word, it is necessary to "come out of Babylon", never trust Babylon, never respect Babylon as if it is anything....

Soyeong · Jul 21, 2017

amariselle said:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." 1 Timothy 4:1-6

If the Bible says that forbidding to marry and commanding that people "abstain" from meats are "doctrines of devils", why do so many Christians accept these restrictions (often commanded and imposed by church leadership) as actually from God Himself?

Thoughts?

Throughout these verses Paul is referring to man-made teachings, but we don't know the exact details, such as why they were commanded or to what extent they were commanded. We know that in Colossians 2:20-23, Paul was speaking against those who were promoting human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so there were people teaching abstinence from what God said was good to eat in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. However, there conceivably could be good reasons for restricting what God said was good to eat that don't have to do with taking people captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy which depends on human tradition and elemental spiritual forces of the world, such as out of health concerns. Similarly, there could conceivable be good reasons and bad reasons for forbidding marriage.

amariselle · Jul 21, 2017

Soyeong said:
Throughout these verses Paul is referring to man-made teachings, but we don't know the exact details, such as why they were commanded or to what extent they were commanded. We know that in Colossians 2:20-23, Paul was speaking against those who were promoting human teachings and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, so there were people teaching abstinence from what God said was good to eat in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. However, there conceivably could be good reasons for restricting what God said was good to eat that don't have to do with taking people captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy which depends on human tradition and elemental spiritual forces of the world, such as out of health concerns. Similarly, there could conceivable be good reasons and bad reasons for forbidding marriage.

I agree with you. I guess we just need to be careful, because I don't believe we should be imposing or demanding such obligations from others.

If one does abstain from certain foods or does not marry, it needs to be a choice, not a religious demand.

Monk Brendan · Jul 21, 2017

Some interesting notes on this thread.

First, I apologize to Korean-American Christian for labeling him KAH. I have no idea how this was so solidly stuck in my mind.

Second, the only mandates and conditions and doctrines--unmarried clergy, abstaining from meat on Friday, for instance, have only been in place for the Roman Catholic Church. If anyone is interested in starting their own church, then there will have to be some rules put down. I hope that nobody tries to use any unbiblical doctrines to their rules.

Although I do know that several of such "do it yourself" churches have started, which mandate the use of King James Bible ONLY. And then there are the churches that while quoted in Scripture, do not use the quoted verses in context, but make it a demonic doctrine, such as snake handlers and such. Or the "Old Believers" of Russia that will not bury a man unless he has a full beard. Or the churches that forbid women to even speak in a church building, and they must wear skirts down to their ankles. I've been to more than a few churches in my years, and I have seen these things and many more.

Even some of the mainstream churches are using "Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier" as the name of the Holy Trinity, instead of "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," and that baptize adults in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus Christ. Neither of these are Biblically correct. Here is the correct formula:“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” Mat 28:19.

It's not just Roman Catholics have a few (or many) "doctrines of demons"

Monk Brendan · Jul 21, 2017

Soyeong said:
Similarly, there could conceivable be good reasons and bad reasons for forbidding marriage.

For instance, allowing brother and sister--or even first cousins is a good reason to forbid marriage.

amariselle · Jul 21, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
Some interesting notes on this thread.

First, I apologize to Korean-American Christian for labeling him KAH. I have no idea how this was so solidly stuck in my mind.

Second, the only mandates and conditions and doctrines--unmarried clergy, abstaining from meat on Friday, for instance, have only been in place for the Roman Catholic Church. If anyone is interested in starting their own church, then there will have to be some rules put down. I hope that nobody tries to use any unbiblical doctrines to their rules.

Although I do know that several of such "do it yourself" churches have started, which mandate the use of King James Bible ONLY. And then there are the churches that while quoted in Scripture, do not use the quoted verses in context, but make it a demonic doctrine, such as snake handlers and such. Or the "Old Believers" of Russia that will not bury a man unless he has a full beard. Or the churches that forbid women to even speak in a church building, and they must wear skirts down to their ankles. I've been to more than a few churches in my years, and I have seen these things and many more.

Even some of the mainstream churches are using "Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier" as the name of the Holy Trinity, instead of "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit," and that baptize adults in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, the Lord Jesus Christ. Neither of these are Biblically correct. Here is the correct formula:“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” Mat 28:19.

It's not just Roman Catholics have a few (or many) "doctrines of demons"

Again, this is not a thread meant to target Roman Catholicism.

I agree there must be structure in the Church. I think there is much of value to be found in this regard in Acts and the New Testament Epistles.

amariselle · Jul 21, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
For instance, allowing brother and sister--or even first cousins is a good reason to forbid marriage.

Well, yes. It's obvious that circumstances like that make sense.

Monk Brendan · Jul 21, 2017

PropheticTimes said:
Most of my family is of a certain denomination, which I will not mention here in order to avoid any type of finger-pointing. Church attendance was a must, but they were never taught to read the Bible. What they were taught in church was what was to be considered "Biblical truth".

My mother is 74 and has just now picked up a Bible to read for herself, and it is difficult for her, but she is sticking with it (I'm so proud of her). What caused her to do this was my niece and I having conversations on Scripture and what she was hearing was NOT what she was taught.

I'm so glad she wasn't brought up in any of the Pre-Reformation Churches!

Albion · Jul 21, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
For instance, allowing brother and sister--or even first cousins is a good reason to forbid marriage.

That doesn't represent a prohibition against marrying, however. It just means you cannot marry THAT particular person.

Walter and Deborah · Jul 21, 2017

amariselle said:
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained." 1 Timothy 4:1-6

If the Bible says that forbidding to marry and commanding that people "abstain" from meats are "doctrines of devils", why do so many Christians accept these restrictions (often commanded and imposed by church leadership) as actually from God Himself?

Thoughts?

The above is full of good scripture, but as I have read the above statement, that I also thought of the below:

We are supposed to do whatever the scripture said, esp. Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 1 Timothy 6:5

Or they have forgotten God and his commandments. That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:
Psalm 78:7, The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. Psalm 9:17 , but the above is to me as warnings. Except they Repent that do such things.

claninja · Jul 21, 2017

amariselle said:
Ummm.....no. I think you have misunderstood the point of those Scriptures and this thread entirely.

Specifically, what those Scriptures are dealing with regards the forbidding marriage and demanding that people abstain from certain foods.

Whether someone personally chooses and/or is convicted by God to do such things is between them and the Lord. When it is imposed upon them by others, however, that is another matter.

So if the American cancer association starts telling people to abstain from meat, as processed meat is a group 1 carcinogen, than they would be of the devil?

PropheticTimes · Jul 21, 2017

Monk Brendan said:
I'm so glad she wasn't brought up in any of the Pre-Reformation Churches!

Soyeong · Jul 21, 2017

amariselle said:
I agree with you. I guess we just need to be careful, because I don't believe we should be imposing or demanding such obligations from others.

If one does abstains from certain foods or does not marry, it needs to be a choice, not a religious demand.

I think it is very clear that teaching obedience to God's commands to abstain from eating certain meats in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 is teaching the doctrines of God rather than the doctrines of devils. As stated in Leviticus 11:44-45 and 1 Peter 1:13-16, it is about acting according to the holiness of our God. So while there are bad reasons to teach abstinence from eating certain meats, there are nevertheless good reasons to teach abstinence from certain meats, which are part of a religious demand and our relationship with God by grace through faith.

Monk Brendan · Jul 21, 2017

Dkh587 said:
Yes, according to God, eating unclean animals defiles you. I don't think you can be defiled by not washing your hands before you eat, as Jesus taught, but eating unclean animals defiles us.

Forgive me, but the first lesson to be learned in Biblical study is to take what the face value of the text says, and if it says, "thou shalt not" then you're not supposed to twist it around to "you must!" Peter was told 3 times to slaughter and eat the "unclean" animals. You can make all the back flips you want to get around it, but slaughter and eat can't be made into "don't eat."

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 21, 2017

claninja said:
So if the American cancer association starts telling people to abstain from meat, as processed meat is a group 1 carcinogen, than they would be of the devil?

Close but no cigar.
Look into it, if you want to know the truth.
Don't bother, if you don't care.

amariselle · Jul 21, 2017

claninja said:
So if the American cancer association starts telling people to abstain from meat, as processed meat is a group 1 carcinogen, than they would be of the devil?

Sigh....you are still missing the point.

Monk Brendan · Jul 21, 2017

amariselle said:
Again, this is not a thread meant to target Roman Catholicism.

Nor did I say it was. It is just that a lot of anti-Catholicism has crept in to the conversation.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 21, 2017

Soyeong said:
I think it is very clear that teaching obedience to God's commands to abstain from eating certain meats in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 is teaching the doctrines of God rather than the doctrines of devils. As stated in Leviticus 11:44-45 and 1 Peter 1:13-16, it is about acting according to the holiness of our God. So there are nevertheless good reasons to teach abstinence from eating certain meats that are part of a religious demand and our relationship with God by grace through faith.

I think this just confuses most of the world.
So few ever get to the point of caring to obey God,
they have no idea what His instructions are,
and to hear them without seeking Him means nothing to them.

amariselle · Jul 21, 2017

Soyeong said:
I think it is very clear that teaching obedience to God's commands to abstain from eating certain meats in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 is teaching the doctrines of God rather than the doctrines of devils. As stated in Leviticus 11:44-45 and 1 Peter 1:13-16, it is about acting according to the holiness of our God. So while there are bad reasons to teach abstinence from eating certain meats, there are nevertheless good reasons to teach that, which are part of a religious demand and our relationship with God by grace through faith.

Are we still under the Law?

Doctrines of Devils?

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