If the Bible has errors or discrepancies how am I supposed to believe in Jesus?
- Thread starter Lord'sWarrior
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There are no manuscript variations in 2 Timothy 2:15. The verb in greek, translated "study" in KJV, is "spoudason" . . . meaning to apply yourself. Well within the 1611 meaning of "study".
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But just because 16-17 says that, doesn't mean 15 has to say anything at all. You just make up interpretation "rules" as you go along. Don't count on such arguments to be very persuasive.
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- Jan 2, 2015
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He hasn't solved all of the problems of anyone I know. What now?
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No. I am saying none of the other Modern Bible versions do not say 2 Timothy 2:15 as a command to tell you to study to show yourself approved unto God.
If the Modern Version Bibles were trying to deceive you as a whole (as if it was a different spirit being behind them), then what advantage would that spirit gain?
In my KJV, I know clearly that God wants me to study His Word; But the person who just has Modern Version Bibles is really not going to feel the weight of importance from God in studying His Word as it is commanded in 2 Timothy 2:15. They may think silly things like... Christian living has nothing to do with the Bible, etc.
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- Jul 22, 2014
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Not true at all. Verse 14 says clearly that this is talking about words, which then leads into verse 15. Verse 16 talks about shunning profane babblings (i.e. words). So verse 15 is also dealing with words (i.e. the Word). Study (the Word). For what purpose? So as to rightly divide the WORD of truth as verse 15 says!
2 Tim 2:14 "Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings:..."
(2 Timothy 2:14-16).
2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings:..."
(2 Timothy 2:14-16).
This obviously applies to another part of Scripture that says,
Heb 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
(Hebrews 5:13-14).
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
(Hebrews 5:13-14).
Is there a problem if someone does not know how to discern between good and evil?
Yes. There is, for Scripture says...
1 Tim 6:3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1 Tim 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..."
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
1 Tim 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing,..."
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
For without faith, it is impossible to please Him (Hebrews 11:6);
And faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe." (1 Thessalonians 2:13).
Even our Lord was fed the Word of God by the Spirit as He grew in knowledge and wisdom by the Spirit as a child.
"Butter and honey [i.e. the Word of God] shall he [Jesus] eat, that he [Jesus] may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good." (Isaiah 7:15).
So study (the Word) to show yourself approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of truth!
For Jesus says, "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master." (Luke 6:40).
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Of course its a good idea to study the Bible. Of course the Bible itself teaches us to do that. It's just that in 2 Timothy 2:15 the word "study" isn't the best translation in contemporary English. It was a good translation before, not so much now, due to changes in the English language. And just because we say that about 2 Timothy 2:15 does NOT mean we want to avoid studying the Bible.
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- Jul 22, 2014
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But your defense of the Modern Translations here is not consistent for 2 Timothy 2:15. It says in the last half of the verse something similar to the KJV, "rightly dividing the word of truth."
Yet, the first half of the verse is not about that. Very strange and odd.
Anyways, that is not the only problem with the Modern Translations. The list is almost endless when you compare the Modern Translations vs. the KJV.
In Isaiah 14:12, the devil's name "Lucifer" is replaced with "Day Star" or the "Morning Star."
Yes, I am aware that "morning stars" are angels in the book of Job.
But Modern Translations also say this is the Shining Star or the Son of the Dawn. Why?
Jesus says,
"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." (Revelation 22:16).
So Jesus is the BRIGHT and MORNING star!
Yet, the individual in Isaiah 14:12 in Modern Translations is called the shining (bright) and morning star or the Day Star, etc.
So the devil is trying to be like the most high here. He is taking a similar sounding title of Jesus in Isaiah 14:12.
For where is the bright and morning star up in the sky?
It is the sun.
That is why He is called the bright and morning star because the sun is bright and rises in the morning.
Also, Lucifer means "light bearer."
Scripture tells us this is what it means.
"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Corinthians 11:14).
The word "angel" also means "messenger." So 2 Corinthians 11:14 is saying that Satan is a light messenger or light bearer. In fact, when Satan is described with having all kinds of jewelry on him, it was symbolic of who he was. Certain gemstones refract light. They are not light themselves, but they merely reflect whatever light is in existence. Gemstones are like little light bearers. So how fitting the name "Lucifer" is for the devil. Yet, Modern Translations seek to give the devil a name that is similar to Jesus. This is wrong (of course).
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Then there is Daniel 3. The Babylonian king says there is one like the "Son of God" in the fiery furnace along with Daniel's three friends. This is Jesus! Yet, in the Modern Translations it says the "son of the gods." In many false religions we can see how certain gods had mated with human females and created a hybrid. This is popular even in Greek mythology. So who saved Daniel's friends? Jesus or some hybrid like Hercules?
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I don't think that Nebuchadnezzar had read any Isaiah.
And I'd argue as well that the centurion in Matthew 27:54 had something like Hercules in mind (although there is a possibility he'd had an opportunity to hear a little Isiaiah).
Sometimes a blind squirrel does happen upon an acorn, but that doesn't mean it actually saw the acorn.
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- Oct 17, 2015
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Isaiah 14:12 ”How you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!” There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in this verse refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. I think that this misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14:4 “You will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous references to his human nature like Isaiah 14:16 “Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. That anyone would draw that conclusion is, to me, somewhat naive.
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I suspect they aren't taking his advice. Tell them to do what the Lord tells them to do.
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You're not addressing the issue at all. Just more misrepresentations and straw men. I never said you can have Christian living without the Bible. I never said you can do your own thing. I never said you can follow Christ without it being according to God's Word. I never said to follow another Christ.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I suspected your answer would boil down to - "it's correct because the KJV says so."
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Multiple calendars are used at that time under Roman rules. 2 sets of calendars are used by different group of Jews and 1 set of Roman calendar is in official use. Mark and John wrote the contents independently so different set of calendars make have been used.
That said, the gospels are different accounts of human witnessing similar to history. History (any of them in any nation, especially older than 2000 years) can seldom have trackable records down to days and times. History is usually event centered. So a double standard is not necessary for you to understand what the Bible is trying to say in terms of human witnessing.
To put it another way, it's generally out of human capability to write history down to the accuracy of dates or hours. Still the dates or hours in the Bible can be accurate if we can have a better understanding of how the different sets of calendars are used in the different areas inside the Roman empire and different times between Jesus' death till AD70.
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Modern translations say "a son of the gods" because that is EXACTLY what the Aramaic text says.
Daniel 3:25. Was the fourth person in the fire an angel, a visible manifestation of God (theophany), or the Son of God?
"A son of the gods," was spoken by Nebuchadnezzar, a pagan. He's not going to make a reference to Jesus, he's going to make a reference according to HIS OWN religious beliefs.
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Not strange or odd at all. Its a perfectly normal verse that way.
Sorry, you method of judging all other translations against the KJV and then declaring that proves the KJV is superior is a complete failure of elementary logic.
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Where there are perceived discrepancies, you need to humble yourselves to the FACT that God conveyed to us what he wanted us to know, and where there appear to be discrepancies, that they are from two different points of view. The audience of Matthew was the Jews, the audience of Mark was the Romans, the audience of Luke was the Greeks, and John wrote a theological treatise.
Just like there are two accounts of creation which convey the same truth-that God created everything in the universe-but tell the story in two different ways.
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No, my friend. You have to read the context to see what is happening here.
Nebuchadnezzar thought this was an angel of God.
"Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God." (Daniel 3:28).
This was not the "son of the gods (plural) (little "g")!!!
No way Hosea! I mean, "No way José!"
Nebuchadnezzar clearly was referencing the most high God.
The Bible says (even something similar in your Modern Version),
"Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, and spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come hither. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire." (Daniel 3:26).
Angels are called the: "sons of God" in Job.
The fourth person in the fire was still Jesus! The son of God. The Scriptures were still correct in their inspiration by God when they say, "and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." While Nebuchadnezzar did not know it was the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity, the Lord our God who inspired Scripture surely would have glorified the name of the Son of God (Jesus) in this instance. For it was Jesus who was in the fire with Daniel's three friends!
Also, please check out this thread here, as well. It will help to explain this situation a little better, too.
Jesus is the Messenger of the Lord in the Old Testament.
You said:
What verses makes you think that is what the centurion thought?
You said:
I love squirrels. If you like furry little guys like that, I highly recommend checking out the Documentary called, "Tiny Giants." It is one of my all time favorite documentaries. Granted, it is about the "chipmunk" and the "grasshopper mouse", but is is really entertaining.
It definitely will make you appreciate God's creation all the more, that's for sure.
Anyways, may God bless you;
And may you please be well this day in the Lord.
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