OSAS? What do you believe?

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i do not believe once saved always saved.

ok,
Jesus' death was enough and if we can lose it then his death was not enough?

good theory but sorry galations 5.4
says CHRIST IS BECOME OF NO EFFECT UNTO YOU...

yes Christs death was enough, but it is possible for Christians to live their lives in such a way that Christ is no longer effectual to them. the whole book of galations is talking about a church
that once believed and ran well (christians)

5.7
"ye did run well..."

but they FELL FROM GRACE becuase they went back to trusting in the old law and circumcision and were removed from Christ.

1.6
"i marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you..."
5.1-4
"...be not entangled again with the yoke of bondadge...christ shall profit you nothing...Christ is become of no effect unto you...ye are fallen from Grace..."

so, it is possible for us to live in such a way that Christs death no longer is beneficial to us, even though were once christians, we can fall out of grace.

it is possible to take this faith and cast it off whether you think it is foolish or not, whether you would or not it is possible.

1 tim 5.12
having damnation, becuase they have cast off their first faith.

people say we cant lose our salvation becuase its not by works but by faith. well i ask this, if you cast off your faith, how will you be saved?

i really dont think this confusion is excusable,
becuase i ask questions to people and give statements, that are often left without reply, not to boast in myself, but im just saying, you really cannot shout "THE TRUTH, THE TRUTH" when you refuse to or cannot answer your critics reply.
i think the biggest reasons for this are a lack of skill with the word, and lack of honesty.

When Jesus spoke, some heard and some did not hear. He said "My lambs know my voice". Where His lambs acting like Christians to some standard that we have made? We don't know, all we know is: They heard His voice because they were His lambs.

praise God for that eldermike, but it doesnt change what the church of galatia did.

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i understand, i have often felt like all the things ive posted have simply been ignored. becuase i simply cannot find a reasonable excuse to say the evidence i have given doesnt prove that you can lose your salvation.

yeah ive heard people say that those in context werent ever really saved, but if you really look at scripture and what it says about their lives that really cant be true.
it would be foolish to say a person who was never in the faith fell from the faith.

"The fact that we cannot understand how all these things can be true at one and the same time does not prove that some of them are false. It proves that our small, fallen minds cannot fully grasp the wonder of the mind of God. We should accept what He says, and bow and worship as we recognize his greatness." Dr. John Pretlove

I believe OSAS.  I believe a man filled, saved, and sealed by the Holy Spirit is not able to continue in sin. I believe a saved individual out of control in sin will be taken home by God.  I do not believe we have the ability to do good works apart from the empowering of the Holy Spirit.  I do not believe that we are saved by grace prior to accepting Christ and then by works after we are saved.  I believe the works spoken of by James are regarding.

1. Jn 1:13 Jn 6:37,39,40,44 Jn 10:28,29 Jn 3:36

"All that the Father give Me shall come to Me; and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out" "And I give eternal life to them; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand"

2. Mt 13:1-23 teaches us that not every one who professes to know Christ really has a saving relationship.  We know that in Revelations some will come to God and say, "we healed the sick and cast out demons in your name" and Jesus will say "away from me evil doers, I never knew you".

 

 

well,
just to say this, 
i dont believe the bible was written to not be understood, no book is written that isnt meant to be understood. God wrote this stuff so wed hear it and know what it means, if there is any confusion, its satan. and if God cannot write an understandable book then who can?

yes a man in Christ will not be taken from him, but how do you explain the book of galations? im sorry if i ramble about galations but is just much easy to repeat the simple rather than trying to find new areguments with each person.
the book of galations is about a church that was once saved, yet went back to circumsision and stopped using faith to be saved, if you read chapter 5 it says that these people fell from grace and God was no longer of any effect to them.
if we are saved by faith, how will we be saved if we cast off the faith? as they did.
and it doesnt say that God still saved them, becuase it says that now Christ was of NO EFFECT to them. ch 5 also.

and in romans ch 6. v 15 i think,

it says that even under grace, sins still reap death. in order to not be destroyed, one must stop sinning. as Jesus paid the price, and the holyspirit came so we could do that.

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good Word of God and the powers of the world to come, and who have fallen away; it is impossible, I say, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify the Son of God afresh to themselves and put Him to an open shame. "
(Hebrews 6:4-6 MKJV)

FOC:

I dont believe we have to "work" to get salvation, but anone who thinks that no matter what they do after salvation that they are eternally in grace need to get their bibles opened up and start reading again from the beginning.

It all works into the "elect" and those who God foreknew, for sure, but since we ourselves do not have this knowledge, we dare not become comfortable that our actions do not pose any threat to our eternity.

There is no threat for the righteous man to believe in "always in grace" as he is always perservering and trying to be pleasing to God.
The danger is in when this man convinces a brother that he is always in grace and that brother is not as adamant in his convictions.

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[font=Greek,Symbol,BSTGreek]autou gar esmen poihma ... ktisqentes en cristo ihsou ... epi ergois agaqois ... oiv prohtoimasen o qeos ... ina en autoiv peripathswmen[/font]
For we are His workmanship - We are of God's crafting
Created in Christ Jesus - created by means of Christ Jesus (assumption - Christ's atoning sacrifice)
unto good works - We are made with the intention that we produce good works
which God has preordained - God has previously made a choice
that we should walk in them - that we should circulate in them (walk is strengthened by the prefix "peri" to form "walk about," (or more technically - walk around.)

Which God has pre-ordained is a subordinate clause that splits a main clause - adding important information.
The main clause is "unto good works in which we should circulate" - there are only two possibly valid interpretations. Either we are created with the intention that we produce good works, or we are created with pre-defined good works that we are expected to produce.

and in both "interpretations" it seems we are producing good works.

I think that the Book of James give us a very good picture of "works".

I wholeheartedly agree with Ephod, Endure and Follower of Christ.  One of the problems here is that the OSAS doctrine is one of the five points of Calvinism and cannot truly be separated from it.  There are some Christians who don't believe all of what Calvin teaches, but try to hold on to OSAS.  This makes for a very confusing understanding of the gospel.  I do not accept Calvin's teachings, but the only way to truly accept OSAS with any real hope of making some sense out of it, is to accept all five points of Calvinism.  The idea behind the Calvinistic view is that you weren't responsible for your salvation to begin with.  You had no choice in the matter so how could you possibly have a choice in rejecting it later?  However, to me, it still doesn't make any sense.

The phrase that we use 'losing ones salvation' doesn't really hold merit and is part of the problem with many accepting our viewpoint.  When we use the word 'lose' it can bring to mind the idea of losing other things like a set of car keys.  No one ever has or will ever accidentally lose their salvation.  That is why so many hang on so tightly to things like Jesus saying that no one can snatch us out of the Father's hand.  No one can!  Not Satan, not the world, NO ONE!  But we certainly can choose to walk away.  We give it away just as we accepted it.  Our mistakes or unintentional sins will not cause us to fall away.  Those who claim such are from the other side of the spectrum, called legalism.  I believe that we are talking about an individual who makes a conscious, willing, deliberate decision to reject Christ after having had a full knowledge and accpetance of the truth.  I'm not sure how anyone who believes that we willingly choose to accept the gospel upon faith (of course, this is not Calvinists) can honestly believe that what was mentioned above is not possible.  Let's be careful to not give people a false hope.

 

Quote: That is why so many hang on so tightly to things like Jesus saying that no one can snatch us out of the Father's hand.

While at the same time, neglecting to note that the ones who cannot be snatched are those who are continuing in love for God. It is very easy to demonstrate that while those who cease from loving God are still (nominally) in his hands, there is not any way to demonstrate that they cannot or will not be snatched.

and in both "interpretations" it seems we are producing good works.
"are" doesn't meet with the sense of the passage, created for the purpose of producing doesn't mean that the purpose will be undertaken.

I think that the Book of James give us a very good picture of "works".
James does indeed do that very well, Follower.

Oh well - on to a proper examination of Ephesians:
He - declares who undertook an action - He
chose - tells us what that action was - choosing
us - tells us who the action affects - "us"
in him - tells us with more precision just who was affected - "us in him"
before the foundation of the world - shows when the choosing was done
that we should be holy - shows what was chosen
(He) - unstated - therefore the person who did the prior choosing.
having predestinated - takes a new action
us - affecting the same people
to adoption of sons - describes what is predestinated
in Christ - declares where that action is taken.

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2Peter 1:10 "Therefore, brothers, rather be diligent to make sure of your calling and election; for doing these things, you will not ever fall. "