There has to be some problems in Heaven, right?

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NothingIsImpossible

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Actually its pretty easy. We can't be robots in heaven because if that is how things are then it means the devil never would have fallen since he should have been a robot and unable to do anything bad.

Now I do realize that by saying we won't have, lets say the ability to swear, it means "freedom" is being taken away. But is that really freedom? Thats what we call it on earth. But earth is not heaven, at least as it was meant to be.

Swearing never existed, inappropriate content never existed, greed never existed before earth (per say). So we aren't losing anything really, just evil sinful things that came into being because the devil got Eve to bite the apple. I don't really see it as being a robot or having less freedom. I'm still free to make choices in heaven. I just won't have to worry about making bad choices because its a different place.

Or we can think of it like earth and lets say Mars. We know everything about how earth works, how gravity works, how weather works...etc. And we also know (to some degree) how that stuff on Mars works. So if we went to Mars would we say its not right how it works there because it worked differently on earth? What about after civilization has been there thousands of years and has developed maybe entirely different rules and views.

Of course we can't say "It wasn't like that on earth!" because they are two different places.

In the end I don't worry about what might or might not be anymore in heaven. The bible gives me enough info that I realize I will have my memories from earth, I will know people (though they will be in perfect bodies), I will have my ability to think for myself...etc. So I just see it as what earth would have been. Though technically speaking when God recreates earth it will be how things should have been.... like an earth 2.0. Side note, the mars thing I know is crazy of course since He will return WAYYYYYYYYY before we even get there anyways.
 
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Cassidy Bennett

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Let's look at the world, in any government corruption is the norm not the exception, governments are actually evil to the core! Disease. Physical injuries/accidents, etc. Starvation. The entire world is a profit based system that actually builds things to fail to maximize profit. Corporations buy patents for things that are TOO good in order to hide them from the light of day, etc. Anyway, I believe Heaven has to be the best possible world WHERE FREE WILL EXISTS.

I always shake my head at the argument that 'God did not want to make robots so he gave us free will, but unfortunately that means there will be sin and evil.' The same person will also claim that there is no sin in Heaven. So we WILL be robots in Heaven?? Can't have it both ways! I believe Heaven will be the best possible world, no disease, no hunger, a GOOD to the core world government (Jesus will be the king of the world in the new Earth), people will heal instantly from injury (we'll be a bunch of Wolverines without the claws). But, unless we are non-free will robots your lover can still cheat on you, people can decide to steal, etc. Can anyone tell me how you can have a perfect sinless Heaven without free will? Or do you agree with me?

So in heaven we will have the complete knowledge of God and will not have any outside influence to cause sin. For example, every day you have the voice of God talking to you, your thoughts, and the voice of the devil I'm assuming. Something that does not belong there in either case. Even Jesus had this voice in the wilderness when the devil spoke to him. However we listen to it and he did not. This voice is gone in heaven though. That's why in the garden God asked who told Adam and Eve they were naked bc this voice did not come from him.

The devil is no longer in heaven and walks back and forth on the earth...apparently. lol according to job and it makes sense. When the new earth is created there will be no devil so therefore no sin. I doubt there will even be a tree of the knowledge of good and evil bc it won't be necessary at that point. I use to always think about those kids born into the new earth and how they would be taught in school for the love of God don't touch the tree of good and evil!!! Lol It already served its purpose though.

I guess in a sense it turns us into "robots" like angels. I think that's a man made idea though. We would do the will of God bc we really love God like the angels do. God is the source of love. So why wouldn't we love him? It's just natural.

Though we're prone to sin here, we wouldn't be prone to it in heaven bc we already chose to be with God and approve his ways. We are not tempted in heaven therefore can not sin.
 
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1gh2g3f4

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Let's look at the world, in any government corruption is the norm not the exception, governments are actually evil to the core! Disease. Physical injuries/accidents, etc. Starvation. The entire world is a profit based system that actually builds things to fail to maximize profit. Corporations buy patents for things that are TOO good in order to hide them from the light of day, etc. Anyway, I believe Heaven has to be the best possible world WHERE FREE WILL EXISTS.

I always shake my head at the argument that 'God did not want to make robots so he gave us free will, but unfortunately that means there will be sin and evil.' The same person will also claim that there is no sin in Heaven. So we WILL be robots in Heaven?? Can't have it both ways! I believe Heaven will be the best possible world, no disease, no hunger, a GOOD to the core world government (Jesus will be the king of the world in the new Earth), people will heal instantly from injury (we'll be a bunch of Wolverines without the claws). But, unless we are non-free will robots your lover can still cheat on you, people can decide to steal, etc. Can anyone tell me how you can have a perfect sinless Heaven without free will? Or do you agree with me?




no because all of the testing and measuring and judgement will be done... and it would be the will of those that are there to live in under his glory.. there is no sex in heaven the only marriage is the marriage of the lamb.. soo no "lovers" as you say.. how can you have the perfect sinless heaven??
you bind the great deceiver, the father of lies, lucifer, satan whatever you wanna call him... then you release him for a short time to test the people and if they are true to their heart for jesus until death...
they are accepted... everyone else is judge.... "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."
 
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JohnKing67

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Let's look at the world, in any government corruption is the norm not the exception, governments are actually evil to the core! Disease. Physical injuries/accidents, etc. Starvation. The entire world is a profit based system that actually builds things to fail to maximize profit. Corporations buy patents for things that are TOO good in order to hide them from the light of day, etc. Anyway, I believe Heaven has to be the best possible world WHERE FREE WILL EXISTS.

I always shake my head at the argument that 'God did not want to make robots so he gave us free will, but unfortunately that means there will be sin and evil.' The same person will also claim that there is no sin in Heaven. So we WILL be robots in Heaven?? Can't have it both ways! I believe Heaven will be the best possible world, no disease, no hunger, a GOOD to the core world government (Jesus will be the king of the world in the new Earth), people will heal instantly from injury (we'll be a bunch of Wolverines without the claws). But, unless we are non-free will robots your lover can still cheat on you, people can decide to steal, etc. Can anyone tell me how you can have a perfect sinless Heaven without free will? Or do you agree with me?

I believe it won't be possible to sin in Heaven. Is that freewill? I don't know but I assume if you're in heaven you're not going to want to sin anyway.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Can anyone tell me how you can have a perfect sinless Heaven without free will?
No, wrong question.
Everyone who gets to see heaven has a pure heart.
They each and every one
choose in this life (on earth, now, before dying)
who they will serve.
They must be born from above, by the Will of The Father in Heaven -
not by the will of the flesh, nor of the world, nor of man.
Thus,
they each have life from the Father, AFTER He grants them life, AFTER He is satisfied (justice, redemption, atonement, sanctification, ... ... ...)
perfectly.
Every detail, need, requirement, aspect must be perfectly satisfied -
realize most people never satisfy even one: a pure heart is required.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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there must be something going on up there as the bible talks a lot of armies up there. why the need for warriors when all is perfect.

Heavenly Guards Security Questionaire:
What is your rank and clearance level please ?
(required for classified and confidential requests for information)

:)
 
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Apex

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Evil does not exist because of free will. Evil exists because human nature has been deformed by sin.

What caused Satan to rebel?

Sinless beings can sin. A sinless Adam and Eve did and so did many sinless angels. I believe we "freely" allow God limited control over our free will on the New Earth. God will prevent us from sinning there.
 
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Dirk1540

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There's a lot of replies that are interesting food for thought, yes I do know first hand that that 'Inclination' to sin is watered down when I am living more close to a Godly life. It's also interesting to consider that there will no longer be temptation strings tugging at you all day long. But man, I hate to sound vulger here, but sex is one of my favorite pleasures in life. I understand how there are great innocent pleasures, but they are by far a different kind of pleasure. Isn't sex a gift given to people who are in love?

***(Edit...I think I was just trying to come up with a good analogy in this post to compare Earthly pleasures vs Heaven, and I figured that sex was a good analogy, and all I really meant to do was mention that I've had it before so I know...Wow I re-read this and I worded this horribly lol, I sound like a total pig this came out the wrong way!!! I don't even sleep around I was so shocked when I re-read what I wrote, that came out the wrong way)***

Sin has purpose here on earth, but there is no purpose for sin in heaven, so we certainly do n need to sin.
You will not be a sexual being in heaven, so all the competition for sex is eliminated. Thing of how much sin is related to sex?
In heaven you have it all (God is totally unselfishly generous) so there is nothing to covet.
Yes, some people will have greater Love than you have, but think about that: it just means they Love you more than you Love them back, so is that bad for you?
You have already experienced sin on earth so you are not tempted to go through that again.

But sex between a married couple isn't sin!!

Once we experience the immediate presence of God, knowing Him directly, all desires are met; we are fully and completely satisfied and so the will is no longer swayed to desire anything else

There are different forms of pleasure, the pleasure you get with a lover is not even in the same ballpark of the type of pleasure that is of a wholesome good pleasure, like the presence of God. Again I guess I'm getting into the brain teasers here again but I wonder how an entire category of pleasure can be erased and it not be depressing news. Wow sorry everyone but I'm really not liking this no lovers in Heaven thing. It's funny that I never even thought of this until now after reading through all this. I think I hit the nail on the head with the word category! An entire category (lovers) of pleasure will no longer exist UGH. Has anyone ever had a bummed out feeling about the prospect of that?

By the way, this completely gets my mind swirling now with questions about the Nephilim in Genesis. It would totally make sense then if angels chose to inhabit human flesh to experience sex if they were never able to. Wow was sexual desire/jealousy the actual cause of the fall??? Wow that would make sense!!
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Isn't sex a gift given to people who are in love?
No, not exactly, and not at all in heaven in the life to come....
Likewise no to >>
By the way, this completely gets my mind swirling now with questions about the Nephilim in Genesis.
of which a multitude of fairy tales were made up, many in the last 75 years, many long before then....

The simple truth washes all the fairy tales away, but is not sought by most visitors to the internet. Sorry - (not really, I guess) - keep seeking for the truth, don't give up.... it may take years to find,
but it makes the difference in eternal life, and a resurrection to judgment...
 
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fhansen

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There's a lot of replies that are interesting food for thought, yes I do know first hand that that 'Inclination' to sin is watered down when I am living more close to a Godly life. It's also interesting to consider that there will no longer be temptation strings tugging at you all day long. But man, I hate to sound vulger here, but sex is one of my favorite pleasures in life. I understand how there are great innocent pleasures, but they are by far a different kind of pleasure. Isn't sex a gift given to people who are in love?



But sex between a married couple isn't sin!!



There are different forms of pleasure, the pleasure you get with a lover is not even in the same ballpark of the type of pleasure that is of a wholesome good pleasure, like the presence of God. Again I guess I'm getting into the brain teasers here again but I wonder how an entire category of pleasure can be erased and it not be depressing news. Wow sorry everyone but I'm really not liking this no lovers in Heaven thing. It's funny that I never even thought of this until now after reading through all this. I think I hit the nail on the head with the word category! An entire category (lovers) of pleasure will no longer exist UGH. Has anyone ever had a bummed out feeling about the prospect of that?

By the way, this completely gets my mind swirling now with questions about the Nephilim in Genesis. It would totally make sense then if angels chose to inhabit human flesh to experience sex if they were never able to. Wow was sexual desire/jealousy the actual cause of the fall??? Wow that would make sense!!
Well, personally I don't know that there can't be sex or some comparable pleasure in heaven. I just know that we won't idolize and become slaves to any particular pleasure or possession; all things will be enjoyed according to their order, with God held above all else simply because He's that good, that satisfying, that thirst-quenching to the bottom of our souls. And He created sex after all, and knows us better than we know ourselves; He's not going to give us something less.
 
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Dirk1540

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of which a multitude of fairy tales were made up, many in the last 75 years, many long before then....

True, there's a really technical book I have on the more difficult sections of the OT (parts that are usually intentionally skipped by preachers). Sadly I always let things get in the way and I never got a chance to really dig into the book yet. I would know so much more if I actually took more time to study all the great material I have. But Nephilim is definitely a fascinating subject!

Well, personally I don't know that there can't be sex or some comparable pleasure in heaven. I just know that we won't idolize and become slaves to any particular pleasure or possession; all things will be enjoyed according to their order, with God held above all else simply because He's that good, that satisfying, that thirst-quenching to the bottom of our souls. And He created sex after all, and knows us better than we know ourselves; He's not going to give us something less.

You do have Paul talking about us not even being able to comprehend how great Heaven will be. I just found it strange that romantic love lives wouldn't be part of it, and again it's funny that I never thought about that until now.
 
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bling

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There's a lot of replies that are interesting food for thought, yes I do know first hand that that 'Inclination' to sin is watered down when I am living more close to a Godly life. It's also interesting to consider that there will no longer be temptation strings tugging at you all day long. But man, I hate to sound vulger here, but sex is one of my favorite pleasures in life. I understand how there are great innocent pleasures, but they are by far a different kind of pleasure. Isn't sex a gift given to people who are in love?



But sex between a married couple isn't sin!!
I did not say sex itself was sin but being a sexual being does cause a lot of conflict and increases selfish desires. Sex helps married couples and is very much part of marriage.

Sexual pleasure is basic "carnal"/fleshly pleasure and can be selfish. Heaven is a place of only unselfish Love, your joy comes from helping others to be happy, which on earth you might have done with your spouse. Can you allow yourself to be turned on by helping the needy without sex?
 
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Blade

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Dirk1540, In heaven.. you are still YOU! Its not like.. HEY lets all go play that harp with the rest..haha.. you can be like.. na.. going to go get a book and read. SIN.. all the things that go in that. will be gone. Sin.. things that are NOT of God..never were....aka false. Say.. and I dont like saying it like this but for the moment I cant think of anything lol. .Say.. your in heaven and He says.. how about living in the MTN? Think your going to be just saying YES to everything? .. if you don't like living there NOW.. why would it be different there? It will look SO MUCH better.. but.. you might be..no I dont want to.. I want to live in the city.. your still YOU!

There are FEELINGS that are not from GOD.. so many times we meet someone we think things.. to our selfs based on not GOOD things. Those will be gone. TRUTH is what will be seen and heard. Pffft I am SO bad with words. But hey.. it was my biggest thing when I was younger. I wanted to still be ME..over time.. as HE became closer.. since I drew near to Him. I find the way He treats me here will be the same there. SIN cant enter heaven. Like to read books? PFFT my wife does.. you will there.

Remember this life is like looking through a mirror that is cloudy and SO dirty..cant make much of anything out. Things like ROCKS.. yeah rocks. What did Jesus say? If you make them be quite even the ROCKS will cry out. HUH? Go us.. there dead. God cant make DEAD things. EVERYTHING God makes is LIFE. So there EVERYTHING is alive. Dog still barks.. birds still TWEET. Yet..you will understand them. Remember it was nothing for Adam and Eve to hear a snake talk right? WE keep looking at HEAVEN as if its like EARTH NOW!

Put my self out there.. I have asked to see things.. and He tells me shows me. This is one .. I never asked about.. haha. Dont know why. But.. ask HIM...for YOU are no puppet. He made YOU in HIS image. God like you are.. GODS we are not. There is ONLY ONE! yet.. in His image we are made. We believe in Jesus.. we are children of God. So when you THERE talk to angels..to them GOD is not there Father. We alone can call GOD our Father.

Think.. if GOD does not force anyone to speak hear do think.. anything.. and HE never changes.. whats going to be different there? Things you THOUGHT you missed Him here.. will be there. Sorry.. all knowing we will not be. There are things we will know.. yet.. still growing.. still learning. You will just be able to SEE for the 1st time. SIN will be taken away. Like the word talks about Satan. The world.. all will see him and say.. THIS? This is the one that deceived the nations? We (most) have made him out to be like a god..strange how GOD says he is the god of this world. Yeah.. just ONE that was the greatest most beautiful full of wisdom..yet sin found in him.. was just ONE fallen angel. Was nothing. It was ALL a lie. We bought it. THAT will be gone..forever

So much of this .. is what I know.. and believe.. yet.. not written. Can ONLY get better. DONT see HIM and Heaven and what is COMING through MANS eyes. You will not be happy. Try.. to see it through HIS eyes. Like see you yourself as HE sees you...in HIS eyes your what? In right standing.. aka righteousness. 100% pure holy.. because you believed in His only son. THAT is how HE sees you. But you dont see your self. You/We see our SIN all the time. most of us do I should say.

Anyway.. I am still seeing through a clouded glass.. so DONT take my word for it. All I do KNOW for fact is.. and thats 100% ..you and I will still be US. What I dont like here.. that is not based on some lie.. I wont there. I will just see the TRUTH. He KNOWS what you like and dislike.. and will give you what you LIKE.. think.. we being evil know how to give good gifts.. wow now put GOD in this.. how much MORE does HE know us.. what WE LIKE.. man HE left HEAVEN.. ALL was made for US...this GOD really really really ..did I say really? REALLY loves us! What do YOU as a parent do for your kids..or the one you love so much.. AMP that up .. GOD is so much higher..
 
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RisenInJesus

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But, unless we are non-free will robots your lover can still cheat on you, people can decide to steal, etc. Can anyone tell me how you can have a perfect sinless Heaven without free will? Or do you agree with me?
I don't agree with your view because I believe according to the scriptures those who will be in heaven are those who have already of their freewill chosen to love God in response to His love and be submitted to His will. They are therefore new creations in Christ who will be willingly and joyfully living in harmony with God's perfect will in heaven where there will be no sin.
 
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Dirk1540

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This is all just so difficult to get my head wrapped around, I'm just trying to chew on it all.

I have actually spent the hugh majority of my time studying apologetics, histories of Christianity along with histories of the surrounding nations, arguments over the validity of the Jews in Egypt, the Davidic kingdoms, etc. But mostly historical arguments for/against Jesus as a man who performed supernatural works, and if there is good proof that he fullfilled prophecies. Reading the Bible was only done in sections where it related to 'Arguments.' Oh and there has been the science arguments of course.

The only reason I've stayed around is because I find it impossible the he was just a man who pulled the wool over everyone's eyes. So I guess I'm a 'Watered down lame' Christian lol. I just recently said to myself that I'd rather put the arguments vs atheists in the backseat and actually fully dig into just the Bible. So you'll probably be hearing a lot more of me in here as far as INNER Biblical questions. Some things are bothering me lol.
 
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sdowney717

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No, wrong question.
Everyone who gets to see heaven has a pure heart.
They each and every one
choose in this life (on earth, now, before dying)
who they will serve.
They must be born from above, by the Will of The Father in Heaven -
not by the will of the flesh, nor of the world, nor of man.
Thus,
they each have life from the Father, AFTER He grants them life, AFTER He is satisfied (justice, redemption, atonement, sanctification, ... ... ...)
perfectly.
Every detail, need, requirement, aspect must be perfectly satisfied -
realize most people never satisfy even one: a pure heart is required.

I agree, Jesus says,
Matthew 5:8
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

Apostle John has some revealing words about sin and those born of God..., they do not sin, and indeed can not sin. God's seed remains in the person, the Holy Spirit indwelling the person.

And since those who belong to Christ are joined as one spirit with Him, they do not sin in their born of God new spirits which He creates in righteousness and holiness. They are in fellowship with God, His Spirit to their spirit and so then those who abide in Him do not sin.

Such a fellowship proves also that such a life we have with the Father God is truly everlasting life. Those who come to Christ He does never cast away.

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Yet John says much more about sin. You must understand sin has to do with the body and the mind, but not the spirit made alive by God. Those who are dead in sins are dead spiritually.

But for those in Christ, Paul says in Romans 8, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1 John 3:4
[ Sin and the Child of God ] Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

1 John 3:5
And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

1 John 3:6
Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

People are spirit soul body, they are not just one thing. When John says those born of God do not and can not sin, John must be referring to the born again, born of God new spirit of a man that God creates inside of you. The body and the mind may still sin as it has not yet been redeemed. Some day at the resurrection our bodies will be glorified, and then there will be no more sinning done in the body or the mind. Your spirit is the real you and it is different from the mind and the body being tied to the flesh. Spirit is spirit, and flesh is flesh, you must be born again, Jesus said you shall be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
It is God's will your sanctification, it is God who perfects you, you are His workmanship.

Romans 8

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
 
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Serving Zion

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This is all just so difficult to get my head wrapped around, I'm just trying to chew on it all.

The only reason I've stayed around is because I find it impossible the he was just a man who pulled the wool over everyone's eyes.
He was obviously a real and present spirit with the early church, manifesting signs and wonders from heaven behind the actions of His apostles. It's just a reality that could not be ignored, so it had a notable impact on reality that has flowed to the present day.

However, His activity in the present day appears to be more mysterious and questionable, and I will just suggest that a lot of the reason for this, is because the majority of Christians have yielded somewhat to doctrines of the antichrist (consider the impact of this, as described in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10). The corrupting of a Christian's faith by their having incorporated false doctrines, is a weakening of their ability to represent Him in an indisputable way (Matthew 5:48, Romans 12:2) and that prevents Him from acting with heavenly support to glorify those who are propagating false teaching in His name (John 15:8).

An example of this corruption and infiltration of foreign spirits, is where a lot of churches have instituted official ordinances for a chain of command so that nobody is freely able to walk into their presence and contribute to fellowship as The Holy Spirit might lead them. The church's predetermined rule to block all activity unless it has first been screened and approved, is a direct action to quench The Holy Spirit's activity in their midst through brute force without discerning in that moment whether it is of God or not.

These same systems will appoint for themselves people of their choosing to be in authority, establishing unquestionable favouritism toward those who have been awarded a certificate of trust.

Such predefined systems for establishing trust and distrust actually blinds them from discerning the spiritual condition of any person at the given moment. A person who has been approved according to their system might indeed one day come to suffer a trauma where sin is manifesting in them, and therefore their spirit is no longer holy but demonic in that moment .. yet, because they have made up their mind to believe that he has holy spirit, they are prevented from recognising this corruption and executing justice on behalf of The Holy Spirit while the imposter/counterfeit spirit is permitted to minister among them with the authority of God.

It is the spirit of the world that creates these sorts of institutions (Mark 10:42-44) so it is not The Holy Spirit that has manifested in them when they have issued these decrees. This is why God seems to act in mysterious and indirect ways these days: it is because He is largely not represented in churches, in fact largely being opposed by churches (Ezekiel 8:6), so His spirit in His people is likewise tainted by the spirits of the world that came to be in them while they yielded to worship and promote those spirits as though being the spirit of God.

This means that He is not distinctly recognisable among them as The Holy One, because they themselves are not holy nor do they recognise The Holy Spirit. Yet, He still loves them and does maintain His interest in them despite that their sin is opposing His liberation to clearly manifest among them.
 
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