Missing the Point

dreadnought said:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

I think most people miss the point of what Jesus is saying here. I believe he’s telling us that heaven comes to us the moment we repent of our sin.

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Perhaps... but if he was speaking Hebrew which is possible (or at least Aramaic) then the word for repent would have been teshuvah which is less "turning away from" and more a call to "return." Since he said, "I have not been sent but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel" (those historically who had been scattered into the nations) then his call to return is in line with this.

Haipule said:

No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9 NASB
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It is impossible for someone born of God to "sin" because hamartia translated "sin" means: to miss, be errant, go the wrong way, off-course, wayward etc.

The English word "sin" comes from the Latin sinistra which means: left-hand. It is also where we get the English word "sinister".

The word "sin" is Latinized and ecclesiastic and has completely masked the truth about are walk. Until we all figure this out, we will continue to argue about, "What is a sin?"

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So, you never covet, lie, get wrongfully angry, curse, look at a member of the opposite sex due to their attractiveness?

Seriously.... everyone sins.......every day........we cannot help it.

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:

That's what I'm saying repentance doesn't enable someone to conquer those sins and resist them but the HOly Spirit does. Repentance gives someone he mindset and will to turn away (Jesus said in scripture how he didn't give the Holy Ghost to a group of people because they didn't believe or something like that). Repentance gives someone the mind for reception and the determination and mind to strive to not sin, the Spirit gives them the full power itself to do so

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I agree that it is not our strength but the Holy Spirit.... The desire is there, the ability is not....

In the end.... I sin everyday even with the strength of the Holy Spirit in me and my heart fully determined not to sin.... yet, I do.

JacksBratt said:

I agree that it is not our strength but the Holy Spirit.... The desire is there, the ability is not....

In the end.... I sin everyday even with the strength of the Holy Spirit in me and my heart fully determined not to sin.... yet, I do.

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Well about that there's a verse in john 2:1 about how it says to sin not (KJV version) because some get saved and just turn away from lying and adultry and all that stuff straight up my pastor did for example. And it's usually people like him that had near death experiences that make such a radical change . But as I mentioned earlier sometimes you end up being the person that had advocates with the father, I was that person who... I can't say I was sinning every day.. but it was more so once a week I was committing adultery and would tell a white lie once a week. I prayed about it and kept fighting and the gap between me committing that sin continued to grow and grow and now it's been months. Keep praying and seeking and you'll be able to resist that sin or if it's more then one,sins that are holding you back. Also make sure you have The Holy Spirit inside... its unusual for someone to sin everyday upon reception. I'm not calling you unfilled I'm just saying to make sure you truly have received and if you received you still have. It does happen sometimes it's just not common. Also one change I did that helped me was fast, I wasn't fasting so now I fast A whole day or more straight up once a week, and then I fast until after church which ends around 2 PM on Sunday. Denying the flesh helped me fight adultery. With lying it's more so just a will to accept what someone may feel about the truth... or not be tempted to say a white lie to make a shortcut in a way.

JacksBratt said:

I agree that it is not our strength but the Holy Spirit.... The desire is there, the ability is not....

In the end.... I sin everyday even with the strength of the Holy Spirit in me and my heart fully determined not to sin.... yet, I do.

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If your sin is more fleshly like mine was (been at least 6 months since I commuted adultry) fasting is key

JESUS=G.O.A.T said:

If your sin is more fleshly like mine was (been at least 6 months since I commuted adultry) fasting is key

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No, I'm talking about day to day things that Christ would not do that every person does. Not committing adultery in the physical sense as much as the looking at a woman "that way" to simple things like impatience, rudeness, pride, covetousness...... the list goes on.

Anyone who thinks they live sinless is kidding themselves.

JacksBratt said:

So, you never covet, lie, get wrongfully angry, curse, look at a member of the opposite sex due to their attractiveness?

Seriously.... everyone sins.......every day........we cannot help it.

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[sigh]

Seriously!

If a am God's begotten Son from-above then I live above in high places with Him! He is the one shepherding me and I shall lack NOTHING! He makes me to lie down in green pastures. I cannot get lost! And if I do something stupid, I have His rod and staff to comfort me in the comfort that I can't get lost!

hamartia does NOT mean "sin"! It means: errant, wayward, off course, "missing the point".

"Sin" means what ever anyone says it means and to as many whom are dumb enough to listen to them! It is a silly, silly word!

dreadnought said:

We can spend a lifetime making excuses why we haven't stopped sinning, or we can, with the Lord's help, stop sinning now. Two paths to choose from.

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Good luck.. but it's a good goal to shoot for.

Side by Side: (2)[ ]John [the]Baptist(baptizOn--one-always-submerging) (1)appeared (3-)in the wilderness preaching(heralding) [a]baptism(baptisma) of repentance(with-mindedness) for(into) [the]forgiveness (release from bondage) of-sins(misses). Mark 1:4 NASB (look at all that manipulation)

The -ma ending of baptismos refers to the resultant state, or effect, of submergence.

Now let’s remove the manipulated forensic/legal interpretation and give it a hyper-literal societal interpretation for our everyday life by being academically honest with God’s pure breath!

Hyper-Literal(same verse): He-becomes(appears in history--middle-passive)* [ ]John, one-always-submerging in thee wilderness and-also, one-always-heralding [ ]submersion-effect(baptisma) of-with(loose association)-mind(i.e., with or, like-mindedness of many people) into [ ](separate)from-release(as a captive) of-misses. Mark 1:4

In the phrase, “a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins”: “a” was added by the translators; “baptism” is transliterated into nothingness; the word “repentance” is completely stupid; “for” is a mistranslation of a primary preposition; “the” was added by the translators; “forgiveness” is far too forensic and completely misleading; and “sin” is a silly word! The only word they got right was “OF”--twice!

John’s baptism was not “a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins”. Rather, he was heralding a well-message of unity using submergence in water as a teaching tool! The “into” represents that this baptisma or, result of baptismos, which represents first unity, also represents the fact that now being united, we are released as captives of missing which harms each other. This is why they acknowledged their misses to one another(Mark 1:5).

If you think erroneously that “Jesus died for your sins”; and that John’s pre Jesus baptism was; “a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins”. Then, why did Jesus have to die on the cross: why not just be baptized? If Jesus had the power to forgive sins while alive on this earth(Luke 5:20), and He did, then why did He have to die on the cross for our sins? If our pre Jesus hero, king David, acknowledged his sins to God and 1 John 1:9 tells us to acknowledge our sins for forgiveness: then why did Jesus have to die on the cross for our sins?

Jesus DID NOT die on the cross for the forgiveness of our sin, or sins! Sins(missing the mark, off course) are YOUR kuleana(Hawaiian: responsibility) because you are harming yourself and/or others or, just lost going the wrong way! The cross represents that God Himself did something about the state of stepping beyond(paraptOma) of mankind introduced by the parabasis(violation of a set point or standard) of Adam. “In Adam all die”:

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 1 Cor 15:22 NASB

Propitiation is a college word which means: appeasement. The humanity of Jesus is the appeaser; God is appeased; and the work of Jesus on that cross was an appeasement. Propitiation is the God-ward side of the cross in which I have far more questions than answers(teach me). Because God is appeased, we are then reconciled, which is another college word, which means: to exchange like money. Therefore, we have been exchanged death for life! Say thank you! Therefore, stop harming yourself, stop harming each other; do not miss your anointing which is your destiny; answer Gods call for your life; engage with us in agapE-love--we need you! DON’T MISS! How? As a sheep, take Jesus, the Great Sheppard, by the hand and hang on tight. If you do, YOU CANNOT MISS! HELLO!

By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 1 John 4:9 NASB

“But Bill(here go’s), Jesus did die for the sins of the whole world!” Really, what book, what chapter, what verse of the God-breathed Scripture? “2 Corinthians 5:21.” How come I knew you were going to say that? Ok, let’s present it in the NASB form:

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Cor 5:21 NASB

The note in the margin of your bible says that the second appearance of the word “sin” means: “sin offering”. But, does it actually say “sin offering”? “No.” “A sin offering” is a post-denominational teaching of this verse taught by the doctrine/teaching of men who wear doctrinal prescription eyeglasses and are therefore, blind! Now, let’s all look at this verse in the hyper-literal so that we can all have a pre-denominational look at this verse. Now, kiss Paul’s mouth and therefore, kiss the very mouth of the living God and breathe in what God is breathing out!

Hyper-literal(same verse): For(assigning a reason) thee-One(He) no One-knowing* miss, over our-all miss(a position of covering), He-makes* that(purpose) we-all we-might-be-appearing(middle-passive) [ ]righteousness of-God in Him-same. 2 Cor 5:21

Now, isn’t that pretty? Ain’t it good, ain’t it good!?

Covering: like the cover of the ark with a mercy seat(bema: raised platform) where the priests sprinkled the animal blood covering the miss of man inside. Now that's a simple mind picture!

dreadnought said:

We can spend a lifetime making excuses why we haven't stopped sinning, or we can, with the Lord's help, stop sinning now. Two paths to choose from.

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I have no idea what you are talking about nor am I making an excuse to sin. I am simply pointing out that teshuvah means to return... and part of that return is to live by God's instructions, i.e., don't sin!

Because I am getting off point with this thread I started another thread title: "God's Short-Term Memory" I think you all will enjoy it!

dreadnought said:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

I think most people miss the point of what Jesus is saying here. I believe he’s telling us that heaven comes to us the moment we repent of our sin.

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Chap. Bell

In Matt. 4:17 JESUS ministry paralleled John ministry: "Repent for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand." The general public must repent from their sin, and turn to HIM for our salvation. Because God's Kingdom "is at hand" "in the person and ministry of JESUS."

dreadnought said in post #1:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

I think most people miss the point of what Jesus is saying here. I believe he’s telling us that heaven comes to us the moment we repent of our sin.

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Regarding "the kingdom of heaven" in Matthew 4:17, note that it's called "the kingdom of God" in a similar verse:

Mark 1:15 . . . the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Presently the Kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 12:22-24) and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Romans 14:17, Luke 17:21). But in the future the Kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Matthew 6:10). It will also be physically (Luke 22:30, Matthew 19:28) on the earth (Revelation 5:10), first during the future Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:3-21) and then on the New Earth (Revelation 21:1-8).

Jesus Christ's Kingdom is Israel (John 1:49, John 12:13-15, John 19:19, Luke 22:30). And at His future, Second Coming, He will sit on the earthly throne of David (Luke 1:32-33, Isaiah 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, Acts 3:20-21). Jesus is, in His humanity, the son of David (Matthew 1:1, Matthew 21:15-16, Romans 1:3), of the house of David (Luke 1:69). So at Jesus' Second Coming, He will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isaiah 16:5, Amos 9:11) to its royal glory (2 Samuel 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kings 17:21a). And Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Samuel 7:16-29. And He will bring salvation to all the still-living, non-Christian elect Jews of the house of David. For they (along with all other still-living, non-Christian elect Jews) will become Christians when they see Jesus at His Second Coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Zechariah 13:1,6, Romans 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the Church at that time. For there are no Christians outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

After Jesus Christ's Second Coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, Zechariah 14:3-5) will occur the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Zechariah 14:8-21), during which time the Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zechariah 8:22, Zechariah 14:9, Psalms 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isaiah 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-19). And the physically resurrected Church will reign on the earth with Jesus during the Millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). For the Church is Israel (Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10).

RC1970 said in post #2:

Actually, heaven's coming to you is the reason you repent.

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Good point.

For the elect are those individuals, whether Jews or Gentiles, who were chosen (elected) and predestinated by God before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4-11; 2 Thessalonians 2:13), before they were born (Romans 9:11-24), to become initially saved by faith in Jesus Christ and His Gospel at some point during their lifetime (Acts 13:48b; 2 Timothy 2:10; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). This initial salvation is possible only because of Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross for our sins (Romans 3:25-26), which was also foreordained by God before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8; 1 Peter 1:19-20).

Everyone on his own is wholly corrupt (Romans 3:9-12). So it's impossible for people on their own to ever believe in Jesus Christ and His Gospel and be initially saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 20:31; 1 John 5:13) through their own will (Romans 9:16, John 1:13, John 6:65) or their own intellect (1 Corinthians 1:18 to 2:16). Unsaved people can't understand the Gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 Corinthians 1:18) because only initially saved people, who have received the miraculous gift of some measure of God's own Spirit, can understand it (1 Corinthians 2:11-16).

The nonelect can't ever believe in Jesus Christ and His Gospel and be initially saved, even when they're shown the truth (John 8:42-47, John 10:26, Matthew 13:38-42). For the ability to believe in Jesus and His Gospel comes only to the elect (Acts 13:48b) wholly by God's grace as a miraculous gift from God (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65; 1 Corinthians 3:5b, Romans 12:3b, Hebrews 12:2) as the elect read (or hear) God's Word the Holy Bible (Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, Acts 26:22-23), just as the ability to repent comes only as a miraculous gift from God (2 Timothy 2:25, Acts 11:18). Satan blinds the minds of non-Christians so on their own they can't repent and acknowledge the truth of God's Word (2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:25-26).

dreadnought said in post #36:

The Lord, over a period of time, will show us what changes we need to make in our lives.

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That's right.

For the ability of Christians (although not their choosing) to repent from and confess to God every sin they commit is assured. For if they do commit a sin, even if they're unaware of it, Jesus Christ will send them warning and chastening to make sure they know they've sinned and need to repent (Revelation 3:19, Hebrews 12:6-7, cf. Jeremiah 31:18-19). And He will give them time to repent (Revelation 2:21a). It's only if they wrongly employ their free will to waste the time they're given, and ignore the warning and chastening, and refuse to repent (Revelation 2:21-23, cf. Deuteronomy 21:18-21) until death (1 John 5:16b) or Jesus' future, Second Coming (Luke 12:45-46), that they will ultimately lose their salvation due to unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:19-21).

If Christians become unsure whether or not they've ignored Jesus' warning, and refused to repent from a sin, they need to pray and ask Him to reveal to them if there's any unrepentant sin in their heart (Psalms 139:23-24). And they need to be reading the Bible, every word of it (Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:16), over and over again. For it will expose to them any unrepentant sin which still exists in their heart (Hebrews 4:12; 2 Timothy 3:16), so they can repent from it and confess it to God, and be forgiven and perfect before God (2 Timothy 3:17; 1 John 1:9; 2 Corinthians 7:1).

Bible2+ said:

That's right.

For the ability of Christians (although not their choosing) to repent from and confess to God every sin they commit is assured. For if they do commit a sin, even if they're unaware of it, Jesus Christ will send them warning and chastening to make sure they know they've sinned and need to repent (Revelation 3:19, Hebrews 12:6-7, cf. Jeremiah 31:18-19). And He will give them time to repent (Revelation 2:21a). It's only if they wrongly employ their free will to waste the time they're given, and ignore the warning and chastening, and refuse to repent (Revelation 2:21-23, cf. Deuteronomy 21:18-21) until death (1 John 5:16b) or Jesus' future, Second Coming (Luke 12:45-46), that they will ultimately lose their salvation due to unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27, Galatians 5:19-21).

If Christians become unsure whether or not they've ignored Jesus' warning, and refused to repent from a sin, they need to pray and ask Him to reveal to them if there's any unrepentant sin in their heart (Psalms 139:23-24). And they need to be reading the Bible, every word of it (Matthew 4:4; 2 Timothy 3:16), over and over again. For it will expose to them any unrepentant sin which still exists in their heart (Hebrews 4:12; 2 Timothy 3:16), so they can repent from it and confess it to God, and be forgiven and perfect before God (2 Timothy 3:17; 1 John 1:9; 2 Corinthians 7:1).

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It's funny: I can refute EVERYTHING you just said in your 3 posts using the very Scriptures you quoted! "A little leaven leaves the whole lump" Neither one of us has the time or the interest. However, you can read the Kindle eBook Wake Up Call: William McCoy if you wish--it addresses every point and I often quote it--by permission!

dreadnought said:

I'm just saying that when we stop sinning, our lives become transformed into something indescribably beautiful.

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Thanks for clarifying. We don't know each other so I didn't catch the tone properly, my apologies. I agree although until we have been perfected, "not sinning" is a challenge... one that can be met, but one that is often fallen short of. Not making excuses for anything, just being real... if we haven't been perfected, by definition we are imperfect until that day comes.

Blessings.
Ken