Speak in Tongues - essential :

1stcenturylady · Jul 17, 2017

swordsman1 said:
The latter rain teaching is a false interpretation of scripture. Charismatics latched onto the term to try give legitimacy to the charismatic movement which they regard as a new outpouring of the Holy Spirit. But that term has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. It was only used as a metaphor for people to wait patiently for the Return of Christ just as farmers were said to wait patiently for the Autumn rains. Rain had never been used as a metaphor for the Holy Spirit. Wind perhaps, but never rain.

Peter used Joel 2 in his first sermon on the Day of Pentecost to explain to the people what was going on. Joel 2 is where the early and latter rain is mentioned. You can except it or reject it. I and others accept it and recognize these two outpourings of rain to what happened on the DoP and what is happening now ushering in the return of Christ. You are correct on the timings having to do with Jesus.

ToBeLoved · Jul 17, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Peter used Joel 2 in his first sermon on the Day of Pentecost to explain to the people what was going on. Joel 2 is where the early and latter rain is mentioned. You can except it or reject it. I and others accept it and recognize these two outpourings of rain to what happened on the DoP and what is happening now ushering in the return of Christ. You are correct on the timings having to do with Jesus.

There is a lot more that goes along with latter rain teachings than a few Bible verses. It's interesting how phrases can mean 100 things to different people.

1stcenturylady · Jul 17, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
There is a lot more that goes along with latter rain teachings than a few Bible verses. It's interesting how phrases can mean 100 things to different people.

Yes, I've only heard there is a sect of Pentecostals that teach on it, but I've never heard the teaching, and don't care to. I just go by my understanding of the Bible alone.

swordsman1 · Jul 17, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Strongs 3973 a prim. verb ("pause"); to stop (trans, or intrans), i.e., restrain, quit, desist, come to an end; cease, leave, refrain.

Biblicist will be the first to tell you that the antiquated Strongs lexicon has long been superseded by modern lexicons of which the gold standard is the BDAG from which I quoted earlier.

The LSJ is another up to date lexicon that uses other ancient Greek literature, asides scripture, as examples:

LSJ Lexicon
παύω , Il.19.67, etc. : Ion. impf.
A.“παύεσκον” Od.22.315, S.Ant.963 (lyr.): fut. “παύσω” Il.1.207, etc.; Ep. inf. παυσέμεν （κατα-) 7.36 : aor. “ἔπαυσα” 15.15, etc., Ep. “παῦσα” 17.602 : pf. “πέπαυκα” D. 20.70, Antisth. Od. 10 :—Med. and Pass., Ion. impf. “παυέσκετο” Il.24.17 : fut. “παύσομαι” Od. 2.198, Hdt.1.56, S.OC1040, Ph.1424, E.Med.93, etc. ; πεπαύσομαι only S.Ant.91, Tr.587 (though held to be the true Att. form by Moer.p.293 P.); παυσθήσομαι (v.l. παυθ-) Th.1.81 ; later παήσομαι （ἀνα-) Apoc.14.13 : aor. “ἐπαυσάμην” Il. 14.260 ; ἐπαύθην, Ep. παύθην, Hes. Th.533, Th.5.91 (v.l. παυσθῇ), etc. ; “ἐπαύσθην” Hdt.5.94, etc. ; later “ἐπάην” Choerob. in Theod. 2.141 H. : pf. “πέπαυμαι” Il.18.125, A.Pr.615, Hdt.1.84, Ar.Pax 29, etc. (πεπάσθαι is f.l. in Vett. Val.359.31):
I. causal, make to end,

1. c. acc. only, bring to an end, check, sts. of persons, “ἵνα παύσομεν ἄγριον ἄνδρα” Il.21.314, cf. S.Ant.963 (lyr.), Ar.Eq. 330 ; stop or silence by death, Od. 20.274, S.OT397 :—Pass. and Med., take one's rest, “ἐνὶ κλισίῃ” Il.24.17, cf. Hdt.9.52, etc.; cease, have done, Il.8.295, Od.4.103, etc. ; of one singing or speaking, 17.359, Hdt.7.8.δ́ : generally, Med. denotes willing, Pass. forced, cessation.
b. mostly of things, make an end of, stop, abate, χόλον, μένος, νεῖκος πολέμοιο, ῥόον, ὀδύνας, etc., Il.19.67, 1.282, Od.24.543, 5.451, Il.16.528, etc. ; “μέριμναν” Pi.I.8(7).13 (s. v.l.) ; λύπας ᾠδαῖς π. E.Med.197 (anap.), etc. ; π. τόξον let the bow rest, Od.21.279 ; “π. τοὺς γάμους” S. Ant.575 ; “πόντου σάλον” E.El.1242 ; π. τὸν νόμον annul it, Id.Or.571 ; π. τὸν λόγον close it, X.Cyr.8.6.7 ; “τυραννίδα καταλύσαντα πεπαυκέναι” D.20.70; π. τείχη raze them, D.C.69.9 :—Pass., Th.5.91, etc.

2. c. acc. pers. et gen. rei, hinder, keep back, or give one rest, from a thing, π. Ἕκτορα μάχης, πόνοιο Ἀχιλῆα, Θάμυριν ἀοιδῆς, Πηνελόπειαν κλαυθμοῖο, Il.15.15, 21.137, 2.595, Od.4.801 ; π. τινὰ ἀλκῆς, ἄλης, καμάτοιο, ὀδυνάων, Il. 15.250, Od. 15.342, 5.492, Il.4.191 ; so “π. χεῖρας πολέμοιο” 21.294 ; “ὀρχηθμοῖο πόδας” Od. 23.298 ; “π. τινὰ τῆς βοῆς” S.El.798 ; “τῆς ὕβρεως” Ar.Av.1259 ; “τῆς λυγγός” Pl.Smp.185d ; τῆς ἁμαρτίας καὶ ἀμα “θίας” Id.Lg.784c ; “τῶν ἐπιθυμιῶν” X.Mem.1.2.5 ; [τῆς νόσου] IG42(1).121.71 (Epid., iv B. C.) ; π. τινὰ τῆς βασιληΐης depose one from being king, Hdt.1.123 ; τινὰ τῆς ἀρχῆς, τῆς στρατηγίας, X.Cyr.8.6.3, HG6.2.13 ; “τῆς ἔξω ξυμμαχίας τινάς” Th.3.65 ; also “π. τινὰ ἐκ κακῶν” S.El.987 ; “τινὰ ἀπὸ παιδαγωγῶν” X.Lac.3.1 ; with acc. unexpressed, “αἴ κέ ποθι Ζεὺς . . παύσῃ ὀϊζύος” Od.4.35 ; “φάρμαχ᾽ ἅ κεν παύσῃσι . . ὀδυνάων” Il.4.191 :—Pass. and Med., rest or cease from a thing, πολέμοιο, μάχης, ἔργων, πόνου, γόοιο, κλαυθμοῦ, ὀδυνάων, κλαγγῆς, etc., 21.432,467, Od.4.683, 24.384, 9.540, 17.7, 4.812, Il.2.100, etc. ; τῆς μάχης, τοῦ δρόμου, Hdt.1.74, 4.124 ; “γόων” E.Med. 1211 ; “τῆς ὀργῆς” Lys.19.6 ; “φιλανθρώπου τρόπου” A.Pr.11 ; παύεσθαι ἀρχῆς to be deposed from, or reach the term of, office, Hdt.1.56, cf. 6.66, IG12.114.46 ; “ἐκ μεγάλων ἀχέων παυσαίμεθ᾽ ἄν” Ar.Ra.1531 (lyr.); “ἐκ τρόχων πεπαυμένοι” E.Med.46, cf. El.1108.

3. c. pres. part., stop a person from . . , π. τινὰ ἀριστεύοντα stop him from doing bravely, Il. 11.506 ; “τὸν ἄνδρα παῦσον ταῦτα ποιεῦντα” Hdt.5.23 ; γελῶντας ἐχθροὺς π. S.El.1295 ; “παύσω δέ σ᾽ ὄντ᾽ ἄπαιδα” E.Med.717 :—Pass. and Med., leave off doing . . , ὅθ᾽ ὕπνος ἕλοι, παύσαιτό τε νηπιαχεύων when he stopped playing, Il.22.502, cf. A.Pr.615, Ag.1047, Hdt.1.133, etc.; of things, “ἄνεμος μὲν ἐπαύσατο . . θύων” Od.12.400 : the part. is freq. to be supplied, αἷμα, φλόξ, ἄνεμος ἐπαύσατο, the blood stopped [flowing], the fire [burning], the wind [blowing], Il.11.267, 23.228, Od.12.168, etc. ; so Ῥοδώπιος πέρι πέπαυμαι (sc. λέγων) Hdt.2.135, cf. 7.10.

4. less freq. c. inf., stop a person from . . , “ἔμ᾽ ἔπαυσας ἐπὶ Τρώεσσι μάχεσθαι” Il.11.442 ; “ῥαψῳδοὺς ἔπαυσε ἀγωνίζεσθαι” Hdt.5.67, cf. 7.54 : sts. with μή inserted, “θνητούς γ᾽ ἔπαυσα μὴ προδέρκεσθαι μόρον” A.Pr.250 ; “παύσας ὑμᾶς μὴ λίαν ἐξαπατᾶσθαι” Ar. Ach.634 ; also “π. τὸ μὴ προσελθεῖν . . τὴν ὁλκάδα” Th.7.53 ; “π. τοῦ . . εἶναι” Pl.R.416c.
b. Med. c. inf., Batr.193, AP6.21.8, and later Prose, as Plu.2.216d.

5. Med., yield, give, of timber, opp. ἵστασθαι, Thphr.HP5.6.3.
II. intr. in imper. παῦε, cease, leave off (παύου is rare, S.Ichn.359, Ephipp.5.20, Luc.Im.2), “παῦε μάχης” Hes.Sc.449 codd., cf.h.Cer.351 ; “παῦε γόοιο” Epigr.Gr.320.5 (Thyatira) : mostly abs., παῦε stop! have done! be quiet! “παῦε, μὴ λέξῃς πέρα” S.Ph.1275, cf. Ar.V.1208, Ra.122, 269, Pl.Phdr.228e ; “παῦε, παῦε, μὴ βόα” Ar.Av.1504, cf. V.1194 ; also “παῦε, παῦε τοῦ λόγου” Id.Ra.580 ; “παῦε, παῦ᾽ ὀρχούμενος” Id.Pax326 ; “παῦ᾽ ἐς κόρακας” Id.Ach.864, where the other Verbs are pl. ; παῦ, apoc. for “παῦε, παῦ, μηδὲν ὄμνυ᾽” Men.Sam.96, cf. Ael.Dion.Fr.275, etc.: also imper. Med., “παῦσαι λέγουσα” E.Hipp.706 ; “παῦσαι φαρμακοπωλῶν” Ar.Fr.28 ; “π. μελῳδοῦσ᾽” Com.Adesp.601 ; “π. δυσωνῶν” Pl.Com.224, cf. Theopomp.Com.62, Philetaer.6, Philem.213.1 ; παύσασθε νοῦν ἔχοντες (leg. λέγοντες) Men.482.1.

Again no mention of pausing.

If παύω means pause then why do all translations say 'cease' or 'stop' in 1 Cor 13:8. None of them say 'pause'. Or are you another one who says that all the bible versions have got their translations wrong?

1stcenturylady · Jul 17, 2017

swordsman1 said:
Biblicist will be the first to tell you that the antiquated Strongs lexicon has long been superseded by modern lexicons of which the gold standard is the BDAG from which I quoted earlier.

The LSJ is another up to date lexicon that uses other ancient Greek literature, asides scripture, as examples:

LSJ Lexicon
παύω , Il.19.67, etc. : Ion. impf.
A.“παύεσκον” Od.22.315, S.Ant.963 (lyr.): fut. “παύσω” Il.1.207, etc.; Ep. inf. παυσέμεν （κατα-) 7.36 : aor. “ἔπαυσα” 15.15, etc., Ep. “παῦσα” 17.602 : pf. “πέπαυκα” D. 20.70, Antisth. Od. 10 :—Med. and Pass., Ion. impf. “παυέσκετο” Il.24.17 : fut. “παύσομαι” Od. 2.198, Hdt.1.56, S.OC1040, Ph.1424, E.Med.93, etc. ; πεπαύσομαι only S.Ant.91, Tr.587 (though held to be the true Att. form by Moer.p.293 P.); παυσθήσομαι (v.l. παυθ-) Th.1.81 ; later παήσομαι （ἀνα-) Apoc.14.13 : aor. “ἐπαυσάμην” Il. 14.260 ; ἐπαύθην, Ep. παύθην, Hes. Th.533, Th.5.91 (v.l. παυσθῇ), etc. ; “ἐπαύσθην” Hdt.5.94, etc. ; later “ἐπάην” Choerob. in Theod. 2.141 H. : pf. “πέπαυμαι” Il.18.125, A.Pr.615, Hdt.1.84, Ar.Pax 29, etc. (πεπάσθαι is f.l. in Vett. Val.359.31):
I. causal, make to end,

1. c. acc. only, bring to an end, check, sts. of persons, “ἵνα παύσομεν ἄγριον ἄνδρα” Il.21.314, cf. S.Ant.963 (lyr.), Ar.Eq. 330 ; stop or silence by death, Od. 20.274, S.OT397 :—Pass. and Med., take one's rest, “ἐνὶ κλισίῃ” Il.24.17, cf. Hdt.9.52, etc.; cease, have done, Il.8.295, Od.4.103, etc. ; of one singing or speaking, 17.359, Hdt.7.8.δ́ : generally, Med. denotes willing, Pass. forced, cessation.
b. mostly of things, make an end of, stop, abate, χόλον, μένος, νεῖκος πολέμοιο, ῥόον, ὀδύνας, etc., Il.19.67, 1.282, Od.24.543, 5.451, Il.16.528, etc. ; “μέριμναν” Pi.I.8(7).13 (s. v.l.) ; λύπας ᾠδαῖς π. E.Med.197 (anap.), etc. ; π. τόξον let the bow rest, Od.21.279 ; “π. τοὺς γάμους” S. Ant.575 ; “πόντου σάλον” E.El.1242 ; π. τὸν νόμον annul it, Id.Or.571 ; π. τὸν λόγον close it, X.Cyr.8.6.7 ; “τυραννίδα καταλύσαντα πεπαυκέναι” D.20.70; π. τείχη raze them, D.C.69.9 :—Pass., Th.5.91, etc.

2. c. acc. pers. et gen. rei, hinder, keep back, or give one rest, from a thing, π. Ἕκτορα μάχης, πόνοιο Ἀχιλῆα, Θάμυριν ἀοιδῆς, Πηνελόπειαν κλαυθμοῖο, Il.15.15, 21.137, 2.595, Od.4.801 ; π. τινὰ ἀλκῆς, ἄλης, καμάτοιο, ὀδυνάων, Il. 15.250, Od. 15.342, 5.492, Il.4.191 ; so “π. χεῖρας πολέμοιο” 21.294 ; “ὀρχηθμοῖο πόδας” Od. 23.298 ; “π. τινὰ τῆς βοῆς” S.El.798 ; “τῆς ὕβρεως” Ar.Av.1259 ; “τῆς λυγγός” Pl.Smp.185d ; τῆς ἁμαρτίας καὶ ἀμα “θίας” Id.Lg.784c ; “τῶν ἐπιθυμιῶν” X.Mem.1.2.5 ; [τῆς νόσου] IG42(1).121.71 (Epid., iv B. C.) ; π. τινὰ τῆς βασιληΐης depose one from being king, Hdt.1.123 ; τινὰ τῆς ἀρχῆς, τῆς στρατηγίας, X.Cyr.8.6.3, HG6.2.13 ; “τῆς ἔξω ξυμμαχίας τινάς” Th.3.65 ; also “π. τινὰ ἐκ κακῶν” S.El.987 ; “τινὰ ἀπὸ παιδαγωγῶν” X.Lac.3.1 ; with acc. unexpressed, “αἴ κέ ποθι Ζεὺς . . παύσῃ ὀϊζύος” Od.4.35 ; “φάρμαχ᾽ ἅ κεν παύσῃσι . . ὀδυνάων” Il.4.191 :—Pass. and Med., rest or cease from a thing, πολέμοιο, μάχης, ἔργων, πόνου, γόοιο, κλαυθμοῦ, ὀδυνάων, κλαγγῆς, etc., 21.432,467, Od.4.683, 24.384, 9.540, 17.7, 4.812, Il.2.100, etc. ; τῆς μάχης, τοῦ δρόμου, Hdt.1.74, 4.124 ; “γόων” E.Med. 1211 ; “τῆς ὀργῆς” Lys.19.6 ; “φιλανθρώπου τρόπου” A.Pr.11 ; παύεσθαι ἀρχῆς to be deposed from, or reach the term of, office, Hdt.1.56, cf. 6.66, IG12.114.46 ; “ἐκ μεγάλων ἀχέων παυσαίμεθ᾽ ἄν” Ar.Ra.1531 (lyr.); “ἐκ τρόχων πεπαυμένοι” E.Med.46, cf. El.1108.

3. c. pres. part., stop a person from . . , π. τινὰ ἀριστεύοντα stop him from doing bravely, Il. 11.506 ; “τὸν ἄνδρα παῦσον ταῦτα ποιεῦντα” Hdt.5.23 ; γελῶντας ἐχθροὺς π. S.El.1295 ; “παύσω δέ σ᾽ ὄντ᾽ ἄπαιδα” E.Med.717 :—Pass. and Med., leave off doing . . , ὅθ᾽ ὕπνος ἕλοι, παύσαιτό τε νηπιαχεύων when he stopped playing, Il.22.502, cf. A.Pr.615, Ag.1047, Hdt.1.133, etc.; of things, “ἄνεμος μὲν ἐπαύσατο . . θύων” Od.12.400 : the part. is freq. to be supplied, αἷμα, φλόξ, ἄνεμος ἐπαύσατο, the blood stopped [flowing], the fire [burning], the wind [blowing], Il.11.267, 23.228, Od.12.168, etc. ; so Ῥοδώπιος πέρι πέπαυμαι (sc. λέγων) Hdt.2.135, cf. 7.10.

4. less freq. c. inf., stop a person from . . , “ἔμ᾽ ἔπαυσας ἐπὶ Τρώεσσι μάχεσθαι” Il.11.442 ; “ῥαψῳδοὺς ἔπαυσε ἀγωνίζεσθαι” Hdt.5.67, cf. 7.54 : sts. with μή inserted, “θνητούς γ᾽ ἔπαυσα μὴ προδέρκεσθαι μόρον” A.Pr.250 ; “παύσας ὑμᾶς μὴ λίαν ἐξαπατᾶσθαι” Ar. Ach.634 ; also “π. τὸ μὴ προσελθεῖν . . τὴν ὁλκάδα” Th.7.53 ; “π. τοῦ . . εἶναι” Pl.R.416c.
b. Med. c. inf., Batr.193, AP6.21.8, and later Prose, as Plu.2.216d.

5. Med., yield, give, of timber, opp. ἵστασθαι, Thphr.HP5.6.3.
II. intr. in imper. παῦε, cease, leave off (παύου is rare, S.Ichn.359, Ephipp.5.20, Luc.Im.2), “παῦε μάχης” Hes.Sc.449 codd., cf.h.Cer.351 ; “παῦε γόοιο” Epigr.Gr.320.5 (Thyatira) : mostly abs., παῦε stop! have done! be quiet! “παῦε, μὴ λέξῃς πέρα” S.Ph.1275, cf. Ar.V.1208, Ra.122, 269, Pl.Phdr.228e ; “παῦε, παῦε, μὴ βόα” Ar.Av.1504, cf. V.1194 ; also “παῦε, παῦε τοῦ λόγου” Id.Ra.580 ; “παῦε, παῦ᾽ ὀρχούμενος” Id.Pax326 ; “παῦ᾽ ἐς κόρακας” Id.Ach.864, where the other Verbs are pl. ; παῦ, apoc. for “παῦε, παῦ, μηδὲν ὄμνυ᾽” Men.Sam.96, cf. Ael.Dion.Fr.275, etc.: also imper. Med., “παῦσαι λέγουσα” E.Hipp.706 ; “παῦσαι φαρμακοπωλῶν” Ar.Fr.28 ; “π. μελῳδοῦσ᾽” Com.Adesp.601 ; “π. δυσωνῶν” Pl.Com.224, cf. Theopomp.Com.62, Philetaer.6, Philem.213.1 ; παύσασθε νοῦν ἔχοντες (leg. λέγοντες) Men.482.1.

Again no mention of pausing.

If παύω means pause then why do all translations say 'cease' or 'stop' in 1 Cor 13:8. None of them say 'pause'. Or are you another one who says that all the bible versions have got their translations wrong?

I do have questions about Strongs, and thank you for the tip on the new one. But the one thing for certain is that tongues have not ceased forever yet. They will, just as prophecy and knowledge will, but Jesus' second coming hasn't happened yet, unless the rapture happened today and I missed it. But I doubt it for every eye shall see Him.

swordsman1 · Jul 17, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Peter used Joel 2 in his first sermon on the Day of Pentecost to explain to the people what was going on. Joel 2 is where the early and latter rain is mentioned. You can except it or reject it. I and others accept it and recognize these two outpourings of rain to what happened on the DoP and what is happening now ushering in the return of Christ. You are correct on the timings having to do with Jesus.

If 'latter rain' appeared in Joel 2:28, the prophecy regarding the coming of the Holy Spirit, or immediately subsequent that then I might believe you. But in Joel 2:21-23 there is no indication that Joel was referring to anything other than God blessing the physical land of Israel as the context dictates. If you are symbolizing the rain, then you have to symbolize everything else in that passage. What does the "beasts of the field" symbolize? The "pastures of the wilderness", the "tree has borne its fruit", the "fig tree and the vine" etc? You can't symbolize the rain with symbolizing those too. It is simply a case of finding something, anything that kind of fits, to try and symbolize the charismatic movement and so justify it. If you look hard enough you can find something in scripture to symbolize absolutely anything you care to think of.

1stcenturylady · Jul 17, 2017

swordsman1 said:
Biblicist will be the first to tell you that the antiquated Strongs lexicon has long been superseded by modern lexicons of which the gold standard is the BDAG from which I quoted earlier.

The LSJ is another up to date lexicon that uses other ancient Greek literature, asides scripture, as examples:

LSJ Lexicon
παύω , Il.19.67, etc. : Ion. impf.
A.“παύεσκον” Od.22.315, S.Ant.963 (lyr.): fut. “παύσω” Il.1.207, etc.; Ep. inf. παυσέμεν （κατα-) 7.36 : aor. “ἔπαυσα” 15.15, etc., Ep. “παῦσα” 17.602 : pf. “πέπαυκα” D. 20.70, Antisth. Od. 10 :—Med. and Pass., Ion. impf. “παυέσκετο” Il.24.17 : fut. “παύσομαι” Od. 2.198, Hdt.1.56, S.OC1040, Ph.1424, E.Med.93, etc. ; πεπαύσομαι only S.Ant.91, Tr.587 (though held to be the true Att. form by Moer.p.293 P.); παυσθήσομαι (v.l. παυθ-) Th.1.81 ; later παήσομαι （ἀνα-) Apoc.14.13 : aor. “ἐπαυσάμην” Il. 14.260 ; ἐπαύθην, Ep. παύθην, Hes. Th.533, Th.5.91 (v.l. παυσθῇ), etc. ; “ἐπαύσθην” Hdt.5.94, etc. ; later “ἐπάην” Choerob. in Theod. 2.141 H. : pf. “πέπαυμαι” Il.18.125, A.Pr.615, Hdt.1.84, Ar.Pax 29, etc. (πεπάσθαι is f.l. in Vett. Val.359.31):
I. causal, make to end,

1. c. acc. only, bring to an end, check, sts. of persons, “ἵνα παύσομεν ἄγριον ἄνδρα” Il.21.314, cf. S.Ant.963 (lyr.), Ar.Eq. 330 ; stop or silence by death, Od. 20.274, S.OT397 :—Pass. and Med., take one's rest, “ἐνὶ κλισίῃ” Il.24.17, cf. Hdt.9.52, etc.; cease, have done, Il.8.295, Od.4.103, etc. ; of one singing or speaking, 17.359, Hdt.7.8.δ́ : generally, Med. denotes willing, Pass. forced, cessation.
b. mostly of things, make an end of, stop, abate, χόλον, μένος, νεῖκος πολέμοιο, ῥόον, ὀδύνας, etc., Il.19.67, 1.282, Od.24.543, 5.451, Il.16.528, etc. ; “μέριμναν” Pi.I.8(7).13 (s. v.l.) ; λύπας ᾠδαῖς π. E.Med.197 (anap.), etc. ; π. τόξον let the bow rest, Od.21.279 ; “π. τοὺς γάμους” S. Ant.575 ; “πόντου σάλον” E.El.1242 ; π. τὸν νόμον annul it, Id.Or.571 ; π. τὸν λόγον close it, X.Cyr.8.6.7 ; “τυραννίδα καταλύσαντα πεπαυκέναι” D.20.70; π. τείχη raze them, D.C.69.9 :—Pass., Th.5.91, etc.

2. c. acc. pers. et gen. rei, hinder, keep back, or give one rest, from a thing, π. Ἕκτορα μάχης, πόνοιο Ἀχιλῆα, Θάμυριν ἀοιδῆς, Πηνελόπειαν κλαυθμοῖο, Il.15.15, 21.137, 2.595, Od.4.801 ; π. τινὰ ἀλκῆς, ἄλης, καμάτοιο, ὀδυνάων, Il. 15.250, Od. 15.342, 5.492, Il.4.191 ; so “π. χεῖρας πολέμοιο” 21.294 ; “ὀρχηθμοῖο πόδας” Od. 23.298 ; “π. τινὰ τῆς βοῆς” S.El.798 ; “τῆς ὕβρεως” Ar.Av.1259 ; “τῆς λυγγός” Pl.Smp.185d ; τῆς ἁμαρτίας καὶ ἀμα “θίας” Id.Lg.784c ; “τῶν ἐπιθυμιῶν” X.Mem.1.2.5 ; [τῆς νόσου] IG42(1).121.71 (Epid., iv B. C.) ; π. τινὰ τῆς βασιληΐης depose one from being king, Hdt.1.123 ; τινὰ τῆς ἀρχῆς, τῆς στρατηγίας, X.Cyr.8.6.3, HG6.2.13 ; “τῆς ἔξω ξυμμαχίας τινάς” Th.3.65 ; also “π. τινὰ ἐκ κακῶν” S.El.987 ; “τινὰ ἀπὸ παιδαγωγῶν” X.Lac.3.1 ; with acc. unexpressed, “αἴ κέ ποθι Ζεὺς . . παύσῃ ὀϊζύος” Od.4.35 ; “φάρμαχ᾽ ἅ κεν παύσῃσι . . ὀδυνάων” Il.4.191 :—Pass. and Med., rest or cease from a thing, πολέμοιο, μάχης, ἔργων, πόνου, γόοιο, κλαυθμοῦ, ὀδυνάων, κλαγγῆς, etc., 21.432,467, Od.4.683, 24.384, 9.540, 17.7, 4.812, Il.2.100, etc. ; τῆς μάχης, τοῦ δρόμου, Hdt.1.74, 4.124 ; “γόων” E.Med. 1211 ; “τῆς ὀργῆς” Lys.19.6 ; “φιλανθρώπου τρόπου” A.Pr.11 ; παύεσθαι ἀρχῆς to be deposed from, or reach the term of, office, Hdt.1.56, cf. 6.66, IG12.114.46 ; “ἐκ μεγάλων ἀχέων παυσαίμεθ᾽ ἄν” Ar.Ra.1531 (lyr.); “ἐκ τρόχων πεπαυμένοι” E.Med.46, cf. El.1108.

3. c. pres. part., stop a person from . . , π. τινὰ ἀριστεύοντα stop him from doing bravely, Il. 11.506 ; “τὸν ἄνδρα παῦσον ταῦτα ποιεῦντα” Hdt.5.23 ; γελῶντας ἐχθροὺς π. S.El.1295 ; “παύσω δέ σ᾽ ὄντ᾽ ἄπαιδα” E.Med.717 :—Pass. and Med., leave off doing . . , ὅθ᾽ ὕπνος ἕλοι, παύσαιτό τε νηπιαχεύων when he stopped playing, Il.22.502, cf. A.Pr.615, Ag.1047, Hdt.1.133, etc.; of things, “ἄνεμος μὲν ἐπαύσατο . . θύων” Od.12.400 : the part. is freq. to be supplied, αἷμα, φλόξ, ἄνεμος ἐπαύσατο, the blood stopped [flowing], the fire [burning], the wind [blowing], Il.11.267, 23.228, Od.12.168, etc. ; so Ῥοδώπιος πέρι πέπαυμαι (sc. λέγων) Hdt.2.135, cf. 7.10.

4. less freq. c. inf., stop a person from . . , “ἔμ᾽ ἔπαυσας ἐπὶ Τρώεσσι μάχεσθαι” Il.11.442 ; “ῥαψῳδοὺς ἔπαυσε ἀγωνίζεσθαι” Hdt.5.67, cf. 7.54 : sts. with μή inserted, “θνητούς γ᾽ ἔπαυσα μὴ προδέρκεσθαι μόρον” A.Pr.250 ; “παύσας ὑμᾶς μὴ λίαν ἐξαπατᾶσθαι” Ar. Ach.634 ; also “π. τὸ μὴ προσελθεῖν . . τὴν ὁλκάδα” Th.7.53 ; “π. τοῦ . . εἶναι” Pl.R.416c.
b. Med. c. inf., Batr.193, AP6.21.8, and later Prose, as Plu.2.216d.

5. Med., yield, give, of timber, opp. ἵστασθαι, Thphr.HP5.6.3.
II. intr. in imper. παῦε, cease, leave off (παύου is rare, S.Ichn.359, Ephipp.5.20, Luc.Im.2), “παῦε μάχης” Hes.Sc.449 codd., cf.h.Cer.351 ; “παῦε γόοιο” Epigr.Gr.320.5 (Thyatira) : mostly abs., παῦε stop! have done! be quiet! “παῦε, μὴ λέξῃς πέρα” S.Ph.1275, cf. Ar.V.1208, Ra.122, 269, Pl.Phdr.228e ; “παῦε, παῦε, μὴ βόα” Ar.Av.1504, cf. V.1194 ; also “παῦε, παῦε τοῦ λόγου” Id.Ra.580 ; “παῦε, παῦ᾽ ὀρχούμενος” Id.Pax326 ; “παῦ᾽ ἐς κόρακας” Id.Ach.864, where the other Verbs are pl. ; παῦ, apoc. for “παῦε, παῦ, μηδὲν ὄμνυ᾽” Men.Sam.96, cf. Ael.Dion.Fr.275, etc.: also imper. Med., “παῦσαι λέγουσα” E.Hipp.706 ; “παῦσαι φαρμακοπωλῶν” Ar.Fr.28 ; “π. μελῳδοῦσ᾽” Com.Adesp.601 ; “π. δυσωνῶν” Pl.Com.224, cf. Theopomp.Com.62, Philetaer.6, Philem.213.1 ; παύσασθε νοῦν ἔχοντες (leg. λέγοντες) Men.482.1.

Again no mention of pausing.

If παύω means pause then why do all translations say 'cease' or 'stop' in 1 Cor 13:8. None of them say 'pause'. Or are you another one who says that all the bible versions have got their translations wrong?

I'm trying to find one, what does BDAG stand for. I have a couple lexicons, but does this one act as a concordance too? Lexicons are helpful if you have interlinear texts to go with it.

1stcenturylady · Jul 17, 2017

swordsman1 said:
If 'latter rain' appeared in Joel 2:28, the prophecy regarding the coming of the Holy Spirit, or immediately subsequent that then I might believe you. But in Joel 2:21-23 there is no indication that Joel was referring to anything other than God blessing the physical land of Israel as the context dictates. If you are symbolizing the rain, then you have to symbolize everything else in that passage. What does the "beasts of the field" symbolize? The "pastures of the wilderness", the "tree has borne its fruit", the "fig tree and the vine" etc? You can't symbolize the rain with symbolizing those too. It is simply a case of finding something, anything that kind of fits, to try and symbolize the charismatic movement and so justify it. If you look hard enough you can find something in scripture to symbolize absolutely anything you care to think of.

Peter preached on it and said the Day of Pentecost was referring to Joel 2. You don't have to believe it. I know John MacArthur wouldn't.

swordsman1 · Jul 17, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
I'm trying to find one, what does BDAG stand for. I have a couple lexicons, but does this one act as a concordance too? Lexicons are helpful if you have interlinear texts to go with it.

Bauer–Danker–Arndt–Gingrich

swordsman1 · Jul 17, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Peter preached on it and said the Day of Pentecost was referring to Joel 2. You don't have to believe it. I know John MacArthur wouldn't.

Peter made no mention of 'latter rain'.

1stcenturylady · Jul 17, 2017

swordsman1 said:
Peter made no mention of 'latter rain'.

No, he mentioned Joel 2, where the early and latter rain are also mentioned.

Hillsage · Jul 17, 2017

Albion said:
Ceased...and then started up again...means that they can have ceased and did so.

The argument of continuationists is that they could never have ceased, even if we know that they did.

Sure wish I could find the ANTI tongues URL that attempted to disprove, every historical incidence concerning the false doctrine of tongues (in their opinion). And they attempted to do so, with every reported incident they found in CHURCH HISTORY, from the day of Pentecost until today. They found/quoted a bunch of historical incidences you never found or even heard about. :idea:

I'll try to check the office computer tomorrow for that URL.

EDIT; But until then;

ACT 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of/from the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

The "PROMISE of/FROM the Spirit" was never 'The Spirit', it was the supernatural power from The Spirit just like they 'saw and heard' on the day of Pentecost, and it is for all who are called of God today.

Albion · Jul 17, 2017

You are referring, I take it, to showing that alleged incidents of people speaking in tongues were actually bogus. That's a subject worth exploring, but here we have not even gotten beyond the claim that tongues should be considered to have ceased for the reason that they stopped occurring!

1stcenturylady · Jul 17, 2017

Albion said:
You are referring, I take it, to showing that alleged incidents of people speaking in tongues were actually bogus. That's a subject worth exploring, but here we have not even gotten beyond the claim that tongues should be considered to have ceased for the reason that they stopped occurring!

That is like looking in the living room for a refrigerator. Just because it is not in the living room doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Hillsage · Jul 17, 2017

Albion said:
You are referring, I take it, to showing that alleged incidents of people speaking in tongues were actually bogus. That's a subject worth exploring, but here we have not even gotten beyond the claim that tongues should be considered to have ceased for the reason that they stopped occurring!

Unless I don't really understand what you just said, I think that the scriptures I provided in the EDIT proved 'the point' of continuation on the basis of a biblical promise. A promise I don't believe scripture made 'lightly'.

Albion · Jul 18, 2017

Hillsage said:
Unless I don't really understand what you just said, I think that the scriptures I provided in the EDIT proved 'the point' of continuation on the basis of a biblical promise. A promise I don't believe scripture made 'lightly'.

That was yesterday and I may not have seen the edit, Hillsage. But I don't see any proof at all of your contention in those verses.

Hillsage · Jul 18, 2017

Albion said:
That was yesterday and I may not have seen the edit, Hillsage. But I don't see any proof at all of your contention in those verses.

The EDIT was in the prior post which had 'the verses' which you don't see anything in. Maybe others here do see, and will hopefully add their input. Seems pretty clear to me, but we've been down that street before too.

Also, I'm at the office and couldn't find the URL I was talking about yesterday, either. Oh well.

ToBeLoved · Jul 18, 2017

ToBeLoved · Jul 18, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Peter preached on it and said the Day of Pentecost was referring to Joel 2. You don't have to believe it. I know John MacArthur wouldn't.

So is it still raining then?

Biblicist · Jul 18, 2017

swordsman1 said:
That is not what you said. You said that the congregations at Corinth had cessationist visitors! Changing your tune to save yourself the embarrassment of making such a basic schoolboy error perhaps?

It took me a while to work out what you were apparently on about.
Even though it would be hard to imagine that there were individuals who had been under the teaching of the Apostles and particularly with that of Paul who we would equate as what we know to be cessationists, they certainly would have existed throughout the Empire, either as a result of them missing out an Apostolic teaching or that the leader/s of their home assembly were in opposition to Paul.

As Paul wrote both First and Second Corinthians to not only the city of Corinth but to the Senatorial Province of Achaia which covered most of what we know as southern Greece, it could be possible that there were some poorly taught visitors passing through Corinth from Achaia itself but I would imagine that most such visitors would have passed through Corinth from other parts of the Empire.

And cessationists are very well versed in the things of the Spirit as described in scripture. Which is why we are keen to refute the false teachings of charismatics and pentecostals who insult the Holy Spirit by attributing to Him things which are not of Him.

Oh, thanks for the update, unfortunately I have not as yet come across such an individual.

So charisma does not means gift? Not only have all the Bible versions got their translations wrong in 1 Cor 12:31 but all the lexicons have got it wrong as well, including your favourite BDAG.

BDAG Lexicon
χάρισμα, ατος, τό (χαρίζομαι) that which is freely and graciously given, favor bestowed, gift
...
ⓑ of special gifts of a non-material sort, bestowed through God’s generosity on individual Christians 1 Pt 4:10; 1 Cl 38:1. Of the gift for carrying out special tasks, mediated by the laying on of hands 1 Ti 4:14; 2 Ti 1:6. Of the power to be continent in sexual matters 1 Cor 7:7. Of spiritual gifts in a special sense (Just., D. 82, 1 and Iren. 5, 6, 1 [Harv. II 334, 2] προφητικὰ χ.; Orig., C. Cels. 3, 46, 12; Hippol., Ref. 8, 19, 2) Ro 12:6; 1 Cor 12:4, 9, 28, 30,31.

Guess you'll be writing to messrs Bauer, Danker, Arnt and Gingrich as well then to inform them of their error, as well as all the bible translation committees? You will be busy.

I see that you are up to your old tricks of cutting out selected portions of a lexical entry and further compounding your blunder by incorrectly pasting it onto the forum with the wrong font type. When I saw the BDAG entry I realised right away that you had corrupted the lexical entry (which I have warned you about before) where you turned the entirety of para. (b) into a gloss and not an extended definition - you must stop doing this!!!!!!!!!

I have the feeling that prior to our interactions on this forum that you may never have used a Lexicon before but this is no excuse for being as sloppy as you are with these entries, by now you should know better.

Speak in Tongues - essential :

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