Can You Create Faith?

RisenInJesus said:

Those verses only show that Paul and the apostles were listening to and being led by the Spirit as they traveled around preaching the gospel. Possibly it was not God's timing for them to go to certain areas or they were to go to Macedonia first. I don't think you can make a legitimate teaching out of these verses that God restricts who hears the gospel and that salvation is only by election.

From your view as a Calvinist, why do you believe God chooses to elect some to salvation and let the rest of humanity go on to eternal damnation? Since the Bible says God so loved the world that He sent His only Son so that whoever believes in Him would not perish, but have eternal life...do you believe God could choose to save everyone? Why do you think God's love does not extend to electing everyone?

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My POV, is I try to stay on target with all scriptures.
God has enemies.
Satan exists.
People are not neutral, they are bound to Satan's will as his slaves because of the sin nature that is in them.
God told man that if he sins he dies. God watches over His word to perform it, God is not a liar.
God says no one seeks for Him, so then it is His choice to show mercy and compassion, and that is exactly what God told Moses, 'I will be merciful to whom I will be merciful'.
God destroys sinners, and yet God also has mercy and compassion on some and not on others, this is according to His own purposes and will. God so loved the world that He gave Christ to be slaughtered as the perfect lamb sacrifice, but people naturally do not believe it because their minds are blinded by Satan, the gospel is hid from them. so God must actively choose to whom He will shine His light into their hearts, 2 Cor 4, so simple to understand.
3 But if our Gospel be hid, it is hid to those who are lost,

4 whose unbelieving minds the god of this world hath blinded, lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

RisenInJesus said:

Actually, the the book of John and surrounding passages and verses to John 3:16 do say why people believe or don't believe in Christ....
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God. ( John 3:19-21)

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:6-13)

And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word.42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.” John 4:39-42

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Good verse in John 3 to point out something between those who do not believe and those who do and why they do believe. Christ is speaking here...note v21. Those who do the truth come to the light, Christ, the deeds they do, (ones who come to Christ) have been WROUGHT in God.

So God was responsible for them coming to Christ by demonstrating His authority and power in them to change them, while the other group are left to their evil ways. Now all men are evil in God's sight, so then the group who did come to the light, God was working in them, to them He demonstrated his mercy.

19 And this is the condemnation: that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”

After the flood, God points out the evil nature of all men, which you can call the 'total depravity' concept.

21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savor; and the Lord said in His heart, “I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake, for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

RisenInJesus said:

Actually, the the book of John and surrounding passages and verses to John 3:16 do say why people believe or don't believe in Christ....
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God. ( John 3:19-21)

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:6-13)

And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word.42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.” John 4:39-42

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Now about John 1:10-13

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not.

11 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.

12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to those who believe in His name,

13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I would flip your comprehension 180*.
v10-11, no one knew who Christ was, none received Him, see no one seeks for God, NO ONE understands, they have all turned aside, away from God.
But what happened to them in v12 -13?
The ones who did receive Him had been born of God FIRST, before they did receive Him as Lord.
Truth is No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. Since no one seeks for God, then God seeks-draws whom He will, and for them to be able to receive Christ as Lord, the Holy Spirit must first regenerate them, which translates them from the kingdom of darkness (Satan) to the the kingdom of light (God). the blindness in their minds must be shattered by God shining His light into their hearts.

It says they were not born of their will of the flesh, or the will of man, they had been born of God.
The reason they received Christ as Lord is started first with the process of being born again, Then they can be taught by the Holy Spirit and then they will believe and enter the kingdom of God. Sealed by the Holy Spirit after they believe.

Example using ESV
1 John 5 English Standard Version (ESV)

Overcoming the World
5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

So they believe because God made them born again prior to their confession of faith.

ChristianFromKazakhstan said:

Very much so. Definitely, one can be strongly "programmed" for the unbelief. This happens every day. People's eyes are closed to the truth about Jesus so much, that they will see everything in the light against the gospel. It's like they have an "anti-Jesus" filter built-in their mind. Therefore, they have to "turn off" this prejudice first of all. At least to try and become neutral, objective towards the gospel. And this unbelief certainly comes from the devil, who has been opposing God for millennia and fights His saving truth like nothing else.

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If man can develop unbelief in himself then he can develop belief within himself.

If I told you 1+1 =9 you can choose not to believe it
If I told you 1+1= 2 you can choose to believe it

Therefore believing or not believing are both equally free will choices that men are able to make with no man being preprogrammed one way or the other.

Hammster said:

Why would that make someone believe?

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It doesn't make one beleive. It just motivates to try and anticipate events following death. If you're born in the USA, you may believe in Jesus. If you're born in Israel, you may believe in G-d and future Mashiach. If you're born in Saudi Arabia, you may believe in Allah and his messenger Muhammad. Etc. Or you may decide to silence this fear for good and become an atheist.

TheSeabass said:

If man can develop unbelief in himself then he can develop belief within himself.

If I told you 1+1 =9 you can choose not to believe it
If I told you 1+1= 2 you can choose to believe it

Therefore believing or not believing are both equally free will choices that men are able to make with no man being preprogrammed one way or the other.

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Arithmetics, unlike the gospel, is within our experience. So it doesn't take faith to accept that 1+1=2. It's rather knowledge.

jimmyjimmy said:

Question: Are you a man (or woman)?

Question: Prior to becoming a Christian did you sin?

Question: Does Jesus save sinners? Does He save people who've committed evil acts - people whose deeds are evil?

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Yes, to each of your questions above. But tell me, where in any instance in the Bible is there ever a distinction make between different categories of sinners, as Calvinism creates...elect sinners and non-elect sinners?

The word sinner(s) is used around 65 times in throughout the scriptures... the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners (Gen.13:13); the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just (Prov. 13:22); Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” (Matt. 9:11) the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners (Mark 14:41); we know that this man is a sinner (John 9:34);...that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners...(1Tim. 1:9) etc.

In the NT it is always the same Greek word which is used for sinners, so do Calvinist have some kind of special license to give the word sinner a different meaning in some cases to suit their theology?
There is not one place in the Bible were the word sinners can legitimately construed to mean "elect". Yet, this is exactly what Calvinism does by redefining words, in this case "sinner" to mean "only the elect among sinners" in order to support the aberrant, man-made doctrine which limits Jesus' work of salvation and excludes multitudes from any opportunity of forgiveness.

sdowney717 said:

12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to those who believe in His name,

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Throughout the NT the language of the scriptures gives the idea of God giving His Son, offering His grace, forgiveness of sin, and the gift of eternal life. John states in 1:12-13 that it is those who receive Jesus and believe in His name who are then born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Obviously, one can only be born again, but clearly the order presented here (and elsewhere) is that one must receive God's gift and then by God's will that person is spiritually reborn. Receiving and believing in Jesus as Savior must come before God wills to make one a new creation.

Hammster said:

Did someone make a distinction between elect sinners and non-elect sinners?

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Anyone who holds to "Limited atonement" OF TULIP, saying that Christ died for only the elect and not for all sinners makes this distinction.

RisenInJesus said:

Throughout the NT the language of the scriptures gives the idea of God giving His Son, offering His grace, forgiveness of sin, and the gift of eternal life. John states in 1:12-13 that it is those who receive Jesus and believe in His name who are then born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Obviously, one can only be born again, but clearly the order presented here (and elsewhere) is that one must receive God's gift and then by God's will that person is spiritually reborn. Receiving and believing in Jesus as Savior must come before God wills to make one a new creation.

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Well, actually, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit after we believe.
No mention of being born again after we believe. This sealing is the guarantee of our inheritance.

Ephesians 1, sealing is different from being born of God.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

We are born again, according to His mercy and love, but we are sealed after we believe.
If we were begotten again according to our choice to believe, then that would not be GRACE and MERCY, but more like wages owed as a work.

1 Peter 1:2-4New King James Version (NKJV)
2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

A Heavenly Inheritance
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

Ephesians 2New King James Version (NKJV)
By Grace Through Faith
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Hammster said:

Okay. But your argument was false when you say that Calvinists give the word "sinner" a different meaning.

But we are used to straw man arguments.

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Then tell me according to the Calvinist view or your view. Did Christ die for every sinner that has ever lived or will live or only those sinners who are "elect"? The Bible uses the word sinner to mean everyone who has ever lived on earth, other than Jesus Christ.

Hammster said:

What does that have to do with your false allegation?

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I am afraid that I do not accept your charge of false allegation. The point I made is the teaching of Calvinism's limited atonement with regard to the way the word sinners in interpreted in cases were it supports the "L" of TULIP. Defining sinner to mean only elect sinners and excluding every sinner in the way the Bible uses the word is giving the word a different meaning.