Scholars on BOTH sides agree - Saturday is the seventh day - the Sabbath of Exodus 20

BobRyan

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Not just "The Sabbath of Exodus 20" - but also the "Sabbath" as kept by Christ in the Gospels? Did He know if He was obeying the 4th Commandment? Was Saturday really right - or was it "Tuesday" as the 7th day?

Was Jesus raised on "Wednesday" or on the "First day of the week - Sunday" as both Jews and Christians affirm Sunday as "week day 1" in the Bible and therefore Saturday as "the 7th day".

==============================
Individuals may post opinions and accept or ignore this or that set of texts. choosing one over the other and injecting extreme inference into that one - or having some emotional argument etc.

But actual Bible scholars who are subject to peer review cannot afford to use any sort of sloppy method because in review they will then not be taken seriously by their peers. The result is that even though all scholars do not agree on every point of doctrine - they also cannot afford to rely on short-live very flawed arguments that do not hold up to review -- at least for a short while.

So what are they saying on this subject?

================== a discussion leading to this topic ....
Keep holly the Sabbath is what matters, and to further translate that, simply keep a day of rest, and keep it holly.

true - "IF" the scripture had said 'keep one day in 7 holy -- pick any day of the week you want as long as it is a 7 day cycle of your choosing" or something of that sort.

Exodus 16:23 God says "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath"
not - pick your day... one day in 7.
In fact if you pick the wrong day for that 40 years in the wilderness then you do not eat on Sabbath because no manna fell on Sabbath. Only on the 6 days. A 40-year hard-wired "reminder" for God's people.

Ex 20:11 "11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

In any event, feel free to tell me the day we should all be keeping as the Sabbath, for I need to present my pastor with this valuable information, so we can all do what is right in the eyes of God.

Start with this "pastor I believe Jesus was raised on the first day of the week - is that why we go to church on Sunday? Was Jesus resurrected on Sunday?".

Let me know if he says "No he was not".

I am very interested to know that.

Or you could try this "suppose some happens to 'just feel' that Saturday is the FIRST day of the week - the day Jesus was raised, goes to church every week on Saturday instead -- because if that is true - then all of Christendom is wrong about this and so also all of Judaism -- is that correct?" Or does the Bible really say "pick one day in 7 as you wish - and not 'THE seventh day IS The Sabbath" - but rather "A seventh day IS the Sabbath"

And also explain to me how we deal with the Seven day format, as this will change the days around, and ultimately require us getting a new calendar.

The 7th day of the week has been Saturday for both Jews and Christians - on our calendars -- for many many centuries.

Week - Wikipedia

It is no "accident" that Jews observe the Sabbath on Saturday and many Christians observe Sunday as "week day 1" - the first day of the week - in memory of Christ's resurrection.

Why change now?

I have worked for a number of companies and when you report your time - they never include work done on Sunday - as applying to the previous week. Not because they are "Jews", in fact they have no religious interest invested in that payroll system at all. It is simply the fact of the week.

===================== pro-sunday scholars agree Saturday is the 7th day

As great many pro-Sunday groups confirm this. Including

1. Baptist Confession of Faith.
2. Westminster Confession of Faith
3. D.L. Moody
4. Catholic church - Catechism.
5. R.C. Sproul

Many others.

======================
in search of someone who would differ with this OP that the Sabbath is Saturday -- I find this video. Very nice people if you ask me. Even if they do differ with my position here.

 
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Winken

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Scholars?

How do Christians honor His resurrection? How do they worship?

There is a difference. Don't expect the Body of Christ to suddenly alter it. Maybe over time the various assemblies will just drop it altogether. Likely, if we continue our plunge into secularism absent Jesus.

G'Nite...............
 
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1stcenturylady

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Not just "The Sabbath of Exodus 20" - but also the "Sabbath" as kept by Christ in the Gospels? Did He know if He was obeying the 4th Commandment? Was Saturday really right - or was it "Tuesday" as the 7th day?

Was Jesus raised on "Wednesday" or on the "First day of the week - Sunday" as both Jews and Christians affirm Sunday as "week day 1" in the Bible and therefore Saturday as "the 7th day".

==============================
Individuals may post opinions and accept or ignore this or that set of texts. choosing one over the other and injecting extreme inference into that one - or having some emotional argument etc.

But actual Bible scholars who are subject to peer review cannot afford to use any sort of sloppy method because in review they will then not be taken seriously by their peers. The result is that even though all scholars do not agree on every point of doctrine - they also cannot afford to rely on short-live very flawed arguments that do not hold up to review -- at least for a short while.

So what are they saying on this subject?

================== a discussion leading to this topic ....


true - "IF" the scripture had said 'keep one day in 7 holy -- pick any day of the week you want as long as it is a 7 day cycle of your choosing" or something of that sort.

Exodus 16:23 God says "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath"
not - pick your day... one day in 7.
In fact if you pick the wrong day for that 40 years in the wilderness then you do not eat on Sabbath because no manna fell on Sabbath. Only on the 6 days. A 40-year hard-wired "reminder" for God's people.

Ex 20:11 "11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."



Start with this "pastor I believe Jesus was raised on the first day of the week - is that why we go to church on Sunday? Was Jesus resurrected on Sunday?".

Let me know if he says "No he was not".

I am very interested to know that.

Or you could try this "suppose some happens to 'just feel' that Saturday is the FIRST day of the week - the day Jesus was raised, goes to church every week on Saturday instead -- because if that is true - then all of Christendom is wrong about this and so also all of Judaism -- is that correct?" Or does the Bible really say "pick one day in 7 as you wish - and not 'THE seventh day IS The Sabbath" - but rather "A seventh day IS the Sabbath"



The 7th day of the week has been Saturday for both Jews and Christians - on our calendars -- for many many centuries.

Week - Wikipedia

It is no "accident" that Jews observe the Sabbath on Saturday and many Christians observe Sunday as "week day 1" - the first day of the week - in memory of Christ's resurrection.

Why change now?

I have worked for a number of companies and when you report your time - they never include work done on Sunday - as applying to the previous week. Not because they are "Jews", in fact they have no religious interest invested in that payroll system at all. It is simply the fact of the week.

===================== pro-sunday scholars agree Saturday is the 7th day

As great many pro-Sunday groups confirm this. Including

1. Baptist Confession of Faith.
2. Westminster Confession of Faith
3. D.L. Moody
4. Catholic church - Catechism.
5. R.C. Sproul

Many others.

Over the years, how many people are surprised that Sunday is the 1st day of the week, and Saturday is the 7th?

What does the sign of the Old Covenant have to do with the New Covenant and the new sign?
 
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BobRyan

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Over the years, how many people are surprised that Sunday is the 1st day of the week, and Saturday is the 7th?

I "guess" this is your way of "Agreeing" with the OP statement that the 7th day of the week as the Bible defines it - is our Saturday and that makes the first day of the week - what we today call Sunday.

Thanks... I guess.

What does the sign of the Old Covenant have to do with the New Covenant and the new sign?

The same LAW on tables of stone - is written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
Hebrews 8:6-10

And that same Ten Commandment unit is the reference in Ephesians 6:2 where Paul tells us that the first commandment "with a promise" is the 5th commandment - because that statement is only true in "the Unit of Ten". It is not the first commandment of God in Genesis or Exodus with a promise - but the first one in the UNIT of TEN.

As I think we both already know. Hence all mankind for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth will have this said about them "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23
 
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BobRyan

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How do Christians honor His resurrection? How do they worship?

There is a difference. Don't expect the Body of Christ to suddenly alter it. Maybe over time the various assemblies will just drop it altogether. Likely, if we continue our plunge into secularism absent Jesus.

G'Nite...............

Seems like you are agreeing that week-day-1 of the Bible is our "Sunday" and the 7th day Sabbath of the Bible is our Saturday.

Question -- we have Bible statements such as in Acts 18:4 saying that "every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered for gospel preaching in the Synagogue.

So then - do we have (some place in the Bible) "every week-day-1 both Jews and gentiles gathered in the churches for Gospel preaching, or as a memorial to Christ's resurrection"?

(Not asking if there is some way to rationalize this or that preferred outcome - just whether the actual text is there.)

Also - in the Bible we have "the seventh day is the Sabbath" speaking of every week -- do we also have "the first day is the Sabbath" speaking of every week, or do we have "the first day is the Lord's Day" in the Bible (also speaking of every week).

If not - is this a church tradition that arose - but was not included in the Bible?
 
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1stcenturylady

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I "guess" this is your way of "Agreeing" with the OP statement that the 7th day of the week as the Bible defines it - is our Saturday and that makes the first day of the week - what we today call Sunday.

Thanks... I guess.



The same LAW on tables of stone - is written on the heart under the NEW Covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
Hebrews 8:6-10

And that same Ten Commandment unit is the reference in Ephesians 6:2 where Paul tells us that the first commandment "with a promise" is the 5th commandment - because that statement is only true in "the Unit of Ten". It is not the first commandment of God in Genesis or Exodus with a promise - but the first one in the UNIT of TEN.

As I think we both already know. Hence all mankind for all eternity after the cross in the new Earth will have this said about them "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

Yes, I've heard all this from you before, again and again. It doesn't change the fact that Hebrews 8:6-10 indicates that the 1st Covenant was not faultless. That's what that scripture says.

Exodus 34:28 says "So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

What the New Covenant does is actually saves us, because it is more firmly in line with the original eternal law of God which is of the heart, to love God with all your strength, mind and body, and your neighbor as yourself. The Old Covenant only dealt with outward actions, and doesn't even contain the word, love. But the New Covenant has the eternal law of God on our heart, and is all about love. 1 John 3:23 And this is His Commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another.

That is the difference between law and grace, between the law of sin and death and the law of the Spirit of life in Christ, between getting to the promised land and getting all the way to eternal life.

And, Bob, I don't think you understand grace, the power of God, which is God in us.



 
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Not just "The Sabbath of Exodus 20" - but also the "Sabbath" as kept by Christ in the Gospels? Did He know if He was obeying the 4th Commandment? Was Saturday really right - or was it "Tuesday" as the 7th day?

Was Jesus raised on "Wednesday" or on the "First day of the week - Sunday" as both Jews and Christians affirm Sunday as "week day 1" in the Bible and therefore Saturday as "the 7th day".

==============================
Individuals may post opinions and accept or ignore this or that set of texts. choosing one over the other and injecting extreme inference into that one - or having some emotional argument etc.

But actual Bible scholars who are subject to peer review cannot afford to use any sort of sloppy method because in review they will then not be taken seriously by their peers. The result is that even though all scholars do not agree on every point of doctrine - they also cannot afford to rely on short-live very flawed arguments that do not hold up to review -- at least for a short while.
Religion is an interesting thing. Some here don't understand the obvious protectionism in the ranks of the professional religious person. Anytime a person hears a professional they should question what they say. A deceased neighbor related to me his doctor told him to stay out of the sun and come to him for light treatments. You know he stayed indoors. The sun is vital to our life.
So what are they saying on this subject?

================== a discussion leading to this topic ....


true - "IF" the scripture had said 'keep one day in 7 holy -- pick any day of the week you want as long as it is a 7 day cycle of your choosing" or something of that sort.

Exodus 16:23 God says "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath"
not - pick your day... one day in 7.
In fact if you pick the wrong day for that 40 years in the wilderness then you do not eat on Sabbath because no manna fell on Sabbath. Only on the 6 days. A 40-year hard-wired "reminder" for God's people.

Ex 20:11 "11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."



Start with this "pastor I believe Jesus was raised on the first day of the week - is that why we go to church on Sunday? Was Jesus resurrected on Sunday?".

Let me know if he says "No he was not".

I am very interested to know that.

Or you could try this "suppose some happens to 'just feel' that Saturday is the FIRST day of the week - the day Jesus was raised, goes to church every week on Saturday instead -- because if that is true - then all of Christendom is wrong about this and so also all of Judaism -- is that correct?" Or does the Bible really say "pick one day in 7 as you wish - and not 'THE seventh day IS The Sabbath" - but rather "A seventh day IS the Sabbath"



The 7th day of the week has been Saturday for both Jews and Christians - on our calendars -- for many many centuries.

Week - Wikipedia

It is no "accident" that Jews observe the Sabbath on Saturday and many Christians observe Sunday as "week day 1" - the first day of the week - in memory of Christ's resurrection.

Why change now?

I have worked for a number of companies and when you report your time - they never include work done on Sunday - as applying to the previous week. Not because they are "Jews", in fact they have no religious interest invested in that payroll system at all. It is simply the fact of the week.

===================== pro-sunday scholars agree Saturday is the 7th day

As great many pro-Sunday groups confirm this. Including

1. Baptist Confession of Faith.
2. Westminster Confession of Faith
3. D.L. Moody
4. Catholic church - Catechism.
5. R.C. Sproul

Many others.
 
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Seems like you are agreeing that week-day-1 of the Bible is our "Sunday" and the 7th day Sabbath of the Bible is our Saturday.

Question -- we have Bible statements such as in Acts 18:4 saying that "every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered for gospel preaching in the Synagogue.

So then - do we have (some place in the Bible) "every week-day-1 both Jews and gentiles gathered in the churches for Gospel preaching, or as a memorial to Christ's resurrection"?

(Not asking if there is some way to rationalize this or that preferred outcome - just whether the actual text is there.)

Also - in the Bible we have "the seventh day is the Sabbath" speaking of every week -- do we also have "the first day is the Sabbath" speaking of every week, or do we have "the first day is the Lord's Day" in the Bible (also speaking of every week).

If not - is this a church tradition that arose - but was not included in the Bible?
No Saturday is just the 7th day of the week. Nothing more.
 
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Ronald

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Not just "The Sabbath of Exodus 20" - but also the "Sabbath" as kept by Christ in the Gospels? Did He know if He was obeying the 4th Commandment? Was Saturday really right - or was it "Tuesday" as the 7th day?

Was Jesus raised on "Wednesday" or on the "First day of the week - Sunday" as both Jews and Christians affirm Sunday as "week day 1" in the Bible and therefore Saturday as "the 7th day".

==============================
Individuals may post opinions and accept or ignore this or that set of texts. choosing one over the other and injecting extreme inference into that one - or having some emotional argument etc.

But actual Bible scholars who are subject to peer review cannot afford to use any sort of sloppy method because in review they will then not be taken seriously by their peers. The result is that even though all scholars do not agree on every point of doctrine - they also cannot afford to rely on short-live very flawed arguments that do not hold up to review -- at least for a short while.

So what are they saying on this subject?

================== a discussion leading to this topic ....


true - "IF" the scripture had said 'keep one day in 7 holy -- pick any day of the week you want as long as it is a 7 day cycle of your choosing" or something of that sort.

Exodus 16:23 God says "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath"
not - pick your day... one day in 7.
In fact if you pick the wrong day for that 40 years in the wilderness then you do not eat on Sabbath because no manna fell on Sabbath. Only on the 6 days. A 40-year hard-wired "reminder" for God's people.

Ex 20:11 "11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."



Start with this "pastor I believe Jesus was raised on the first day of the week - is that why we go to church on Sunday? Was Jesus resurrected on Sunday?".

Let me know if he says "No he was not".

I am very interested to know that.

Or you could try this "suppose some happens to 'just feel' that Saturday is the FIRST day of the week - the day Jesus was raised, goes to church every week on Saturday instead -- because if that is true - then all of Christendom is wrong about this and so also all of Judaism -- is that correct?" Or does the Bible really say "pick one day in 7 as you wish - and not 'THE seventh day IS The Sabbath" - but rather "A seventh day IS the Sabbath"



The 7th day of the week has been Saturday for both Jews and Christians - on our calendars -- for many many centuries.

Week - Wikipedia

It is no "accident" that Jews observe the Sabbath on Saturday and many Christians observe Sunday as "week day 1" - the first day of the week - in memory of Christ's resurrection.

Why change now?

I have worked for a number of companies and when you report your time - they never include work done on Sunday - as applying to the previous week. Not because they are "Jews", in fact they have no religious interest invested in that payroll system at all. It is simply the fact of the week.

===================== pro-sunday scholars agree Saturday is the 7th day

As great many pro-Sunday groups confirm this. Including

1. Baptist Confession of Faith.
2. Westminster Confession of Faith
3. D.L. Moody
4. Catholic church - Catechism.
5. R.C. Sproul

Many others.

Very simply, we are NOT UNDER THE LAW, the Jews were. We are under Grace. Jesus did not make any requirements/laws to keep in order to be saved. He fulfilled the Laws for us. He left us with two commandments, love God, and love one another.
The Jews were given the Ten Commandments/Law so that we can know what sin is and also it was a test for them. They were the example to the world to prove that no one could keep the Law and therefore needed a Savior.
Do you really think you can keep the Sabbath laws (some 250 laws) even if we were commanded to do so? You would fail. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees when the Apostles broke their Sabbath rules and when He himself healed on the Sabbath. He is the Lord of the Sabbath. He is our rest and in essence our Sabbath.
Btw, have you lied, stolen, coveted, etc? Do you keep the rest of the commandments? Let's face it, you fail to do so.
Remember, "If you live by the LAW, you will be judged by the Law." Those who even read the Law, a veil comes over them. When they read Grace, the veil is lifted.
You may worship on Saturday or the Lord's Day. If you had to work on the weekends, you could choose your day of worship and in essence we should worship everyday, pray everyday unto God.

In addition to that, the Ten commandments leave out much of the full spectrum of sin, Jesus also rebuked the Pharisees for forgetting the weightier laws of mercy and forgiveness. Think of it, if you kept the Ten Commandments for a given period of time, you would not have to help anybody or show mercy to anyone. There isn't much love required towards our neighbor there. We're showing respect for their property but we could completely ignore them by restricting our obedience to the Laws, to avoid sinning against God and man. Keeping the Sabbath holy does not amount to much love toward our neighbor, for the essence of love is the extension of ourselves, the actions, laboring towards helping and bettering our neighbors lives is put on hold for that day, isn't it.
And Jesus said wouldn't you save your calf if it fell in a hole, which was an act of work?
The more churches focus on the LAW, the more legalistic they become and that veil tends to cover their eyes.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Very simply, we are NOT UNDER THE LAW, the Jews were. We are under Grace. Jesus did not make any requirements/laws to keep in order to be saved. He fulfilled the Laws for us. He left us with two commandments, love God, and love one another.
The Jews were given the Ten Commandments/Law so that we can know what sin is and also it was a test for them. They were the example to the world to prove that no one could keep the Law and therefore needed a Savior.
Do you really think you can keep the Sabbath laws (some 250 laws) even if we were commanded to do so? You would fail. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees when the Apostles broke their Sabbath rules and when He himself healed on the Sabbath. He is the Lord of the Sabbath. He is our rest and in essence our Sabbath.
Btw, have you lied, stolen, coveted, etc? Do you keep the rest of the commandments? Let's face it, you fail to do so.
Remember, "If you live by the LAW, you will be judged by the Law." Those who even read the Law, a veil comes over them. When they read Grace, the veil is lifted.
You may worship on Saturday or the Lord's Day. If you had to work on the weekends, you could choose your day of worship and in essence we should worship everyday, pray everyday unto God.

In addition to that, the Ten commandments leave out much of the full spectrum of sin, Jesus also rebuked the Pharisees for forgetting the weightier laws of mercy and forgiveness. Think of it, if you kept the Ten Commandments for a given period of time, you would not have to help anybody or show mercy to anyone. There isn't much love required towards our neighbor there. We're showing respect for their property but we could completely ignore them by restricting our obedience to the Laws, to avoid sinning against God and man. Keeping the Sabbath holy does not amount to much love toward our neighbor, for the essence of love is the extension of ourselves, the actions, laboring towards helping and bettering our neighbors lives is put on hold for that day, isn't it.
And Jesus said wouldn't you save your calf if it fell in a hole, which was an act of work?
The more churches focus on the LAW, the more legalistic they become and that veil tends to cover their eyes.

Though we are on the same side, we may not be on the same page. I'd like to see. So, what does grace mean to you? We know it doesn't mean we are now allowed to sin, so how would you describe grace?

Romans 6:15 "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?"
 
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BobRyan

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Very simply, we are NOT UNDER THE LAW,

well we have the LAW written on the heart Jeremiah 31:31-33 -- the one Jeremiah knew about.
Unchanged in the NT - Hebrews 8:6-10 verbatim quote of Jeremiah.

This means -- it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain" etc.



Btw, have you lied, stolen, coveted, etc? Do you keep the rest of the commandments? Let's face it, you fail to do so.
Remember, "If you live by the LAW, you will be judged by the Law."

Interesting but none of it is an argument for stealing or killing or coveting. I think we all agree on that.

I 'assume' you are in agreement with the title and OP that the Bible Sabbath a we see in Exodus 20:11 and as kept in the days of Christ - is our "Saturday" while the "first day of the week" -- the day on which Jesus was resurrected - is our "Sunday".
 
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BobRyan

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No Saturday is just the 7th day of the week. Nothing more.

"the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD Thy God" - Ex 20:10 and that day is what we today call "Saturday". You seem to be agreeing - though criptically.
 
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BobRyan

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Over the years, how many people are surprised that Sunday is the 1st day of the week, and Saturday is the 7th?

I "guess" this is your way of "Agreeing" with the OP statement that the 7th day of the week as the Bible defines it - is our Saturday and that makes the first day of the week - what we today call Sunday.

Thanks... I guess.

Yes, I've heard all this from you before,

Fine -- I take that as a "yes".

This particular thread topic is not all that complicated. Just defining a few well-known "givens".
 
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Seems like you are agreeing that week-day-1 of the Bible is our "Sunday" and the 7th day Sabbath of the Bible is our Saturday.

Question -- we have Bible statements such as in Acts 18:4 saying that "every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered for gospel preaching in the Synagogue.

So then - do we have (some place in the Bible) "every week-day-1 both Jews and gentiles gathered in the churches for Gospel preaching, or as a memorial to Christ's resurrection"?

(Not asking if there is some way to rationalize this or that preferred outcome - just whether the actual text is there.)

Also - in the Bible we have "the seventh day is the Sabbath" speaking of every week -- do we also have "the first day is the Sabbath" speaking of every week, or do we have "the first day is the Lord's Day" in the Bible (also speaking of every week).

If not - is this a church tradition that arose - but was not included in the Bible?

The early Christian Church was originally no more than another branch of Judaism. They worshipped in temple and synagogue with their Jewish brothers and sisters. In some rare cases, they constituted the majority and were able to control the order of service, readings and such. However, in most cases they were a minority and could not insist on their own readings or rituals. The custom arose that these Jewish-Christians would meet again on the day (our Sunday) following the Sabbath for a service on their own. Tensions rose within the Jewish community until about AD90 when the rabbinical council of Jamniah decided upon the scriptures that would be permissible for use in synagogue services. This effectively ended Christian participation in Sabbath synagogue worship. They did however in most cases continue the tradition of the Sunday service which became known as "the Lords's Day". This eventually became the norm and was in fact made law by Constantine. In due course theology was invented to justify the change.
 
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BobRyan

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Exodus 34:28 says "So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

What the New Covenant does is actually saves us,

Indeed. SAME LAW of God - different relationship to it.

Which means that it is still sin "to take God's name in vain". Ex 20:6. A point that almost everyone seems to agree on.


As for the saints walking in obedience to God's LAW while by contrast the lost war and rebellion against it - and as Paul says "they do not and indeed CAN not be in subjection to God's Law" Romans 8:4-9 is a great topic -- We have that on some other threads.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Indeed. SAME LAW of God - different relationship to it.

Which means that it is still sin "to take God's name in vain". Ex 20:6. I a point that almost everyone seems to agree on.


As for the saints walking in obedience to God's LAW while by contrast the lost war and rebellion against it - and as Paul says "they do not and indeed CAN not be in subjection to God's Law" Romans 8:4-9 is a great topic -- We have that on some other threads.

What you don't understand is everyone who doesn't have the Holy Spirit and walks in the Spirit is UNDER the law. So you are right there.

However, if you walk in the Spirit you are NOT UNDER the law. Why? Can you answer that? If you get that right, maybe we can get somewhere.
 
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BobRyan

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Seems like you are agreeing that week-day-1 of the Bible is our "Sunday" and the 7th day Sabbath of the Bible is our Saturday.

Question -- we have Bible statements such as in Acts 18:4 saying that "every Sabbath" both Jews and gentiles gathered for gospel preaching in the Synagogue.

So then - do we have (some place in the Bible) "every week-day-1 both Jews and gentiles gathered in the churches for Gospel preaching, or as a memorial to Christ's resurrection"?

(Not asking if there is some way to rationalize this or that preferred outcome - just whether the actual text is there.)

Also - in the Bible we have "the seventh day is the Sabbath" speaking of every week -- do we also have "the first day is the Sabbath" speaking of every week, or do we have "the first day is the Lord's Day" in the Bible (also speaking of every week).

If not - is this a church tradition that arose - but was not included in the Bible?

The early Christian Church was originally no more than another branch of Judaism. They worshipped in temple and synagogue with their Jewish brothers and sisters.

True. Also with gentiles as we see in Acts 13, Acts 17:1-4

And in Acts 18:4 "Every Sabbath" hearing Gospel preaching.

The custom arose that these Jewish-Christians would meet again on the day (our Sunday) following the Sabbath for a service on their own. .

Agreed. At some point that custom did arise.

In any case the "Sabbath" that the Bible speaks of -- is what we today call "Saturday" as you have already affirmed. And thank you for your posts! :)
 
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BobRyan

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What you don't understand is everyone who doesn't have the Holy Spirit and walks in the Spirit is UNDER the law. .

Appears to be a self-conficted statement. Did you make a typo???

Or are you seriously trying out a new doctrine idea that you have?
 
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