Can You Create Faith?
- Thread starter jimmyjimmy
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Faith comes by hearing God speak to you. He speaks to you from His Spirit into your spirit the things of God. You must be enabled to hear His word.
You can not drum up faith in Christ, you can create a faith in all sorts of things that won't save you though.
Christ must CHOOSE to reveal to you Himself and the Father, otherwise you will not believe in them.
Today God uses His Holy Spirit to draw and teach and bring you to Christ, if He does nothing for you, does not regenerate you, does not lead you and teach you, then He does not love you to save you, and you will remain dead in your sins. The reason we believe is because God had such a great love for us that He made us alive who were dead in sins, read Ephesians 2.
Back in Christ's day on earth, many saw His miracles, but they still did not believe in Him. The reason was God had not granted for them to come to Christ, they were sovereignly left to die in their sins. That just is proof people will not believe on their own in Christ, they need lots of help from God to believe.
John 6
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
You can not drum up faith in Christ, you can create a faith in all sorts of things that won't save you though.
Christ must CHOOSE to reveal to you Himself and the Father, otherwise you will not believe in them.
Today God uses His Holy Spirit to draw and teach and bring you to Christ, if He does nothing for you, does not regenerate you, does not lead you and teach you, then He does not love you to save you, and you will remain dead in your sins. The reason we believe is because God had such a great love for us that He made us alive who were dead in sins, read Ephesians 2.
Back in Christ's day on earth, many saw His miracles, but they still did not believe in Him. The reason was God had not granted for them to come to Christ, they were sovereignly left to die in their sins. That just is proof people will not believe on their own in Christ, they need lots of help from God to believe.
John 6
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
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ChristianFromKazakhstan
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Being convinced is the only way to faith. It's definition of "to believe" = to be convinced smth is true.
Thomas touched the wounds of Jesus Christ. So he believed Jesus was risen from the dead and was alive. He had faith. He was convinced enough in that fact. He could have believed in something else. For example, that Jesus had a twin brother who inflicted crucifixion-type injuries. Or that someone used strong power of hypnosis and made himself appear like Jesus etc.
A million possible reasons. It's very personal.
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Thomas was also afforded the opportunity to be with Christ and see His glory in his flesh, not all get such a privilege. Thomas was chosen by God to have Christ revealed to him in a special way.
Luke 10
21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
23 Then He turned to His disciples and said privately, “Blessed are the eyes which see the things you see;
24 for I tell you that many prophets and kings have desired to see what you see, and have not seen it, and to hear what you hear, and have not heard it.”
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ChristianFromKazakhstan
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However, this did not help Thomas to believe in Jesus's resurrection simply from hearing the accounts of witnesses. Thomas wanted visual and tactile proof for himself.
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ChristianFromKazakhstan
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Very much so. Definitely, one can be strongly "programmed" for the unbelief. This happens every day. People's eyes are closed to the truth about Jesus so much, that they will see everything in the light against the gospel. It's like they have an "anti-Jesus" filter built-in their mind. Therefore, they have to "turn off" this prejudice first of all. At least to try and become neutral, objective towards the gospel. And this unbelief certainly comes from the devil, who has been opposing God for millennia and fights His saving truth like nothing else.
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And Christ gave that to Thomas. The whole point is Christ reveals Himself to whom He chooses and then they have faith in Christ, and it works out fine, for all persons that God has chosen to give to Christ. All those that God grants to come to Christ do come to Christ.
The only way we can know for sure that what we are saying is the truth about these things, it must agree-align with the scripture regarding the same. For those who have obtained faith, then we must believe Christ's words in John 6 for example of the reason why we get that faith. If what you say does not agree with what Christ says, then your a false teacher. And we also have a warning that there will be false teachers in the church.
It is the work of God that you believe in Christ whom He has sent. Read john 6.
It is not your work, not of yourself that you believe in Christ.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
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RisenInJesus
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Is this some kind of doublespeak???
"I didn't say you were a Pelagian." "In other words, what you posted was basically Pelagianism."
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Not doublespeak. Most synergists I come across use similar reasoning. It's all Pelagian, but then it's denied and they throw the Holy Spirit in for good measure. You didn't even do that. It was all naturalistic.
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RisenInJesus
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How does one drum up or create faith in all sorts of things? Did you need to drum up the faith to believe the sun will rise each morning? Or do you simply have faith the sun will rise because it is a reality of the universe? According to the scriptures, faith is not a work (Romans 4). People either believe God because He is true or they choose to reject His reality (Romans 1).
"Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18
The Bible says that God loves the world (John 3:16), desires that none should perish (2 Peter 3), that Christ came into the world to save sinners (everyone is a sinner, right?) (1 Tim. 1:15) if He is lifted up from the earth He draws all people to Himself (John 12:32), and that the Holy Spirit will come to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement (John 16:7-9)
Jesus speaking to the people of Jerusalem also points out that while He wanted to gather them they were not willing (Matthew 23:37; Luke 13:34), just as some who search the scriptures are not willing to come to Him (John 5:39-40).
So the scriptures show that God/Jesus calls all people and the Holy Spirit is at work in the world to convict of sin and reveal God's righteousness to everyone. God has and does offer the help, drawing, conviction to each person. No where does the Bible teach that God only grants some the help needed or possibility of faith or salvation.
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ChristianFromKazakhstan
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Excellent explanation - and yes, faith must absolutely align with Jesus. Otherwise it's the wrong kind of faith or not faith at all. Too bad most churches and Christians don't do it but rather follow the traditions of men.
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RisenInJesus
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You seem to really enjoy using labels. I think doing so can often get in the way of simply reading the scriptures and taking them for what they say.
synergism- is the position of those who hold that salvation involves some form of cooperation between divine grace and human freedom.
If God's grace and salvation is a gift from God, as the scriptures plainly state, how then is receiving that gift by faith ...a form of cooperation or a work? I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. Does my faith involve some form of cooperation with the sun to make it rise? Does my faith play any part whatsoever in getting the sun to rise?
Explain to me what is "all naturalistic".
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There are 'Calvinistic' responses to all those verses.
For example, the 2 Peter 3, the not wishing that you perish, to whom is Peter writing? Not the world, Peter is writing to the beloved elect, read it in context, why would God patiently wait for those to repent whom He has not granted them to do so? Those whom He knows will never repent? See this idea is very Pelagian.
John 3:16 only says that those who believe will not perish, but says nothing about why anyone believes in Christ.
John 12:32, Christ drawing all peoples to Himself. Refer back to John 6, about God drawing. After the resurrection-glorification of Christ, Christ is doing the drawing, (He is God), so then all those He draws will come to Christ, nothing different from the earlier teaching. In Him saying I will draw all peoples to myself, does not mean every single person who is alive, just that if they are in God's list to be drawn, Christ will be doing the drawing. All peoples now includes the nations of the gentiles, not just the jews, which is EXACTLY what historically occurred, They went out to the nations of the world with the gospel.
NKJV says 'peoples' meaning types, not 'people' as in each every single person or you have a universal salvation going on.
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”
AMPC clarifies, Christ means Jew and gentile peoples.
32 And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw and attract all men [Gentiles as well as Jews] to Myself.
You betcha people are most definitely not willing to come to Christ, yet He would welcome all that do.
The gospel is an open invitation to repent and believe, YET, God says there are none that seek Him.
So then it is His choice of who to draw or not.
It is God's choice who gets to hear the gospel. For some, the Holy Spirit has forbidden that they hear the gospel. People will not hear unless they are sent. God here has determined for those people at that time to not hear, so He did not permit them to go there to preach, so they were definitely not chosen to know Christ, and that was God's decision, not the apostles decision. So by circumstance, God restricts who gets to hear the gospel thus demonstrating salvation is by election according to His grace, not the willingness of men.
Acts 16:5-7New King James Version (NKJV)
5 So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and increased in number daily.
The Macedonian Call
6 Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia. 7 After they had come to Mysia, they tried to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit did not permit them.
8 So passing by Mysia, they came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night. A man of Macedonia stood and pleaded with him, saying, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” 10 Now after he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go to Macedonia, concluding that the Lord had called us to preach the gospel to them.
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RisenInJesus
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Those verses only show that Paul and the apostles were listening to and being led by the Spirit as they traveled around preaching the gospel. Possibly it was not God's timing for them to go to certain areas or they were to go to Macedonia first. I don't think you can make a legitimate teaching out of these verses that God restricts who hears the gospel and that salvation is only by election.
From your view as a Calvinist, why do you believe God chooses to elect some to salvation and let the rest of humanity go on to eternal damnation? Since the Bible says God so loved the world that He sent His only Son so that whoever believes in Him would not perish, but have eternal life...do you believe God could choose to save everyone? Why do you think God's love does not extend to electing everyone?
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RisenInJesus
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Actually, the the book of John and surrounding passages and verses to John 3:16 do say why people believe or don't believe in Christ....
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God. ( John 3:19-21)
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (John 1:6-13)
And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word.42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.” John 4:39-42
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