Jesus is returning to reign on earth according to the OT prophets and His disciples

BABerean2

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Not if Moses was resurrected and translated into immortality by God after the 30 days and taken to Heaven...

We cannot use "if" to interpret the Bible.

Do you have any scripture that says Moses has already been translated to immortality by God?

Based on Revelation chapter 11 the two witnesses are killed. Therefore, they are not immortal.
What now???


.
 
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Riberra

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We cannot use "if" to interpret the Bible.

Do you have any scripture that says Moses has already been translated to immortality by God?
The Bible don't tell the reason why God have send the angel Michael to dispute the BODY of Moses upon Satan ...
Jude 9
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Here the Scriptures that prove Moses and Elijah have already been translated to immortality by God,
Do you believe what was said in
Luke 9:30-31
Suddenly there were TWO people talking with Jesus; Moses and Elijah, in THEIR glory .....

THE FACT that Moses and Elijah were in THEIR GLORY PROVE that they have been translated...
Based on Revelation chapter 11 the two witnesses are killed. Therefore, they are not immortal.
What now???


.
Jesus also died in His flesh body ,does that mean that He was not immortal ?

Do you believe that John the Baptist was Elijah [returned] send by God as a messenger in the time of Jesus [Matthew 17:9-13 ]?

We know that John the Baptist died by being beheaded ...we know also that some of the Saints came back to life when Jesus died on the Cross...
Matthew 27:50-53
50 And Jesus cried again with a loud voice, and yielded up his spirit.
51 And behold, the veil of the temple was rent in two from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake; and the rocks were rent; 52 and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.
 
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Quasar92

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Elijah will...with another witness .
Revelation 11:3-8
3 And I will give unto my TWO witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

We know that Moses have some experience during plagues times ,think it.
Revelation 11:6about
6 These have the power to shut the heaven, that it rain not during the days of their prophecy: and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they shall desire.


Right on the mark. Yes, it will be Elijah and Moses in Rev.11, who are the two witnesses, fulfilling Jesus prophecy in Mt.17:3, at His Transfiguration.


Quasar92
 
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BABerean2

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52 and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.

And what happened to these after that time.
Did they live forever or did they die like Lazarus?


The Dispensationalist agrees with you.

That should worry both of us...

.
 
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Riberra

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And what happened to these after that time.
Did they live forever or did they die like Lazarus?
The Bible don't give any details about what have happened to these resurrected Saints [Matthew 27:50-53] after that...but we know that they have not ascended to Heaven with Jesus . ..That is very unlikely that they are roaming on the earth since then ...they have probably died just like Lazarus did...and their SOULS went to Heaven...like every Christians who die.
 
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BABerean2

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The Bible don't give any details about what have happened to these resurrected Saints [Matthew 27:50-53] after that...but we know that they have not ascended to Heaven with Jesus . ..That is very unlikely that they are roaming on the earth since then ...they have probably died just like Lazarus did...and their SOULS went to Heaven...like every Christians who die.

Brother Riberra,

I greatly appreciate our discussion here.
Thank you for disagreeing with me, without the condemnation often seen on this forum.


I love you, Brother.

I have two final questions.

Did Jesus say the "candlesticks" (lampstands) are a symbol of the churches in Revelation 1:20?

Did Paul use two olive trees as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelite branches and Gentile branches in Romans 11:24 ?

.
 
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ebedmelech

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The Bible don't give any details about what have happened to these resurrected Saints [Matthew 27:50-53] after that...but we know that they have not ascended to Heaven with Jesus . ..That is very unlikely that they are roaming on the earth since then ...they have probably died just like Lazarus did...and their SOULS went to Heaven...like every Christians who die.
The bible does say what happened to those resurrected saints at Matthew 27:53:

53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.


The "holy city" is "the Jerusalem ABOVE" which the bible speaks of at these passages:

*Galatians 4:26

*Hebrews 12:22

*Revelation 21:2

That is where those saints went!!!
 
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Riberra

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The bible does say what happened to those resurrected saints at Matthew 27:53:

53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.


The "holy city" is "the Jerusalem ABOVE" which the bible speaks of at these passages:

*Galatians 4:26

*Hebrews 12:22

*Revelation 21:2

That is where those saints went!!!
Can you see the Heavenly Holy City from Earth?
They were seen by other people entering Jerusalem which is called the holy city...after that they came out of their tombs.That is what the text mean.

Matthew 27:53
and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.
 
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Riberra

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Brother Riberra,

I greatly appreciate our discussion here.
Thank you for disagreeing with me, without the condemnation often seen on this forum.


I love you, Brother.

I have two final questions.

Did Jesus say the "candlesticks" (lampstands) are a symbol of the churches in Revelation 1:20?
That is talking about the Seven Churches that were in existence in the time of John upon which a judgment was to come upon them soon ...as demonstrated by Revelation 2 and Revelation 3.

Did Paul use two olive trees as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelite branches and Gentile branches in Romans 11:24 ?
Paul use the term OLIVE TREE in Romans 11:24 .

Nothing to do with the TWO OLIVE TREES of Revelation 11:3-4 WHICH ARE IDENTIFY as being TWO WITNESSES.
Revelation 11:3-4
3 And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the Lord of the earth.
 
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BABerean2

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That is talking about the Seven Churches that were in existence in the time of John upon which a judgment was to come upon them soon ...as demonstrated by Revelation 2 and Revelation 3.


Paul use the term OLIVE TREE in Romans 11:24 .

Nothing to do with the TWO OLIVE TREES of Revelation 11:3-4 WHICH ARE IDENTIFY as being TWO WITNESSES.
Revelation 11:3-4
3 And I will give unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks, standing before the Lord of the earth.

Are we witnesses?

Act_1:22  Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Act_4:33  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.


Act_10:43  To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Act_14:17  Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

Act_15:8  And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Act_22:5  As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.

Act_22:15  For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

Act_23:11  And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.

Act_26:16  But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

Rom_1:9  For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Rom_2:15  Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Rom_8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Rom_9:1  I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

Rom_13:9  For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1Th_2:5  For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness:

Tit_1:13  This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Heb_2:4  God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Heb_10:15  Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

Heb_11:4  By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.


1Pe_5:1  The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

1Jn_1:2  (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

1Jn_5:6  This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

1Jn_5:8  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1Jn_5:9  If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

1Jn_5:10  He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

3Jn_1:6  Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:

Rev_1:5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Rev_3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Rev_20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

.
 
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Riberra

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Are we witnesses?
We are witnesses but that does not make us -THE- TWO WITNESSES described in Revelation 11:3-4 ...

But that may makes us the witnesses described in Revelation 20:4 if we have the misfortune to be alive during the prophesied 42 months reign of the Beast.
Revelation 20:4 
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 
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BABerean2

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We are witnesses but that does not make us -THE- TWO WITNESSES described in Revelation 11:3-4 ...

Are we included in the two Olive Trees of Romans chapter 11?

Are we members of a church body, just as some of the early Christians were members of the seven church bodies found in the Book of Revelation?



.
 
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Riberra

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Are we included in the two Olive Trees of Romans chapter 11?
Paul talk about ONE olive tree into which we are grafted.
Roman 11:24
24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?

Yes !we are grafted into the GOOD olive tree.

Are we members of a church body, just as some of the early Christians were members of the seven church bodies found in the Book of Revelation?
Yes !But we are not the TWO WITNESSES mentioned in Revelation 11:3-4
 
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BABerean2

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Paul talk about ONE olive tree into which we are grafted.
Roman 11:24
24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural [branches], be grafted into their own olive tree?

Yes !we are grafted into the GOOD olive tree.


Yes !But we are not the TWO WITNESSES mentioned in Revelation 11:3-4

Are they two men made of wood and metal?

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Riberra

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Are they two men made of wood and metal?
The answer here:
Revelation 11:7-8
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that cometh up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
 
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BABerean2

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The answer here:
Revelation 11:7-8
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that cometh up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

John the Baptist was killed after his testimony.

All of the Apostles, except John, were killed for their testimony.

Are there thousands of our Brothers and Sisters in the Middle East being murdered now, for their testimony?

Are there are Israelis today who are being threatened with death by Orthodox rabbis, because of their testimony?


Because these are described as the two olive trees and lampstands do we know they are a symbol of something?

Are they resurrected from the dead and taken up into a cloud as described in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5?

Does their resurrection taken place near the time of the last trumpet in the Book of Revelation, which is in Revelation 11:15? Is there an 8th trumpet?

Does it occur near "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, which is explained by Christ in John 5:27-30?

.
 
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ebedmelech

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Can you see the Heavenly Holy City from Earth?
They were seen by other people entering Jerusalem which is called the holy city...after that they came out of their tombs.That is what the text mean.

Matthew 27:53
and coming forth out of the tombs after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many.
THERE ARE MANY IN HEAVEN!!! Also how can Jerusalem be "the holy city" with what Jesus said of them in Matthew 23:37-39.

Jerusalem is also called "Sodom and Egypt" in Revelation 11:8.

No Riberra...you can go with your idea but to even think the Holy City is anything other that "the Jerusalem above is flat wrong. Furthermore think about this passage and you may get the idea...Hebrews 11:8-10.

We look for the things that ARE NOT SEEN!!!
 
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Riberra

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THERE ARE MANY IN HEAVEN!!! Also how can Jerusalem be "the holy city" with what Jesus said of them in Matthew 23:37-39.

Jerusalem is also called "Sodom and Egypt" in Revelation 11:8.

No Riberra...you can go with your idea but to even think the Holy City is anything other that "the Jerusalem above is flat wrong. Furthermore think about this passage and you may get the idea...Hebrews 11:8-10.

We look for the things that ARE NOT SEEN!!!
There tombs where on the EARTH ....
They were seen rising from their tombs and entering the Holy City by walking.


Bible proof that the Earthly Jerusalem was called the Holy City in the time of Jesus and the apostles.
Matthew 4:5
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

Jerusalem is also called "Sodom and Egypt" in Revelation 11:8.
That describe the Jerusalem and Israel of the End Times ...
Link:
Tel Aviv declared world's best gay travel destination
 
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ebedmelech

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There tombs where on the EARTH ....
They were seen rising from their tombs and entering the Holy City by walking.
No. That's what YOU say...read what the passage says CAREFULLY...Matthew 27:52-53:
52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.


Bible proof that the Earthly Jerusalem was called the Holy City in the time of Jesus and the apostles.
Matthew 4:5
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
Yet again, after that, Jesus pronounces Jerusalem DESOLATE in Matthew 23:37-39. How can the city in which the Lord was crucified be holy? Especially after God rips the curtain in half to the "Holy of Holies" in Matthew 27:51
That describe the Jerusalem and Israel of the End Times ...
Link:
Tel Aviv declared world's best gay travel destination

No it doesn't...you think that. This is proof the Holy City is in heaven and will come to earth...Revelation 21:2:
2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
 
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