Can You Create Faith?

RisenInJesus · Jul 14, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
If you have no faith in Christ, can you somehow work up faith in Him?

I think this is a nonsensical question to begin with since Paul repeatedly taught that faith and works are mutually exclusive. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. If I drop something I have faith it will fall to the ground, rather than go up. No effort on my part causes or helps these things to occur and I didn't have to work up any faith to believe these realities.
The scriptures are replete with examples of those who heard from God either directly, through others, or through the preaching of the gospel. When confronted with the reality of God and His Word and conviction of the Holy Spirit they either believed and expressed faith in Him or rejected, continuing to exalt self.

RisenInJesus · Jul 14, 2017

Hammster said:
If you're convinced, then there's no need for faith.

But what would make someone even want to believe the gospel?

Maybe...
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death.
Proverbs 14:27

Hammster · Jul 14, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
Maybe...
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death.
Proverbs 14:27

To fear the Lord you have to believe He is real.

RisenInJesus · Jul 14, 2017

Hammster said:
To fear the Lord you have to believe He is real.

According to Romans 1 everyone does know God is real.

Hammster · Jul 14, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
According to Romans 1 everyone does know God is real.

Oksy, so trying to plug your scripture references into the discussion of faith, how do you feel they address my post?

RisenInJesus · Jul 14, 2017

Hammster said:
Oksy, so trying to plug your scripture references into the discussion of faith, how do you feel they address my post?

The fact that human beings know there is a Creator God, One to whom they are accountable in this life or the One they will face after death can cause a person to seek God, find out what He expects, and prepare them to believe the gospel when convicted of its truthfulness by the Holy Spirit.

Hammster · Jul 14, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
The fact that human beings know there is a Creator God, One to whom they are accountable in this life or the One they will face after death can cause a person to seek God, find out what He expects, and prepare them to believe the gospel when convicted of its truthfulness by the Holy Spirit.

That can't be true since there's multitudes that don't believe the gospel.

RisenInJesus · Jul 14, 2017

Hammster said:
That can't be true since there's multitudes that don't believe the gospel.

So why can't it be true of those who do believe the gospel because there are multitudes who don't believe?
The scriptures say that... although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God. And the scriptures also say that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. God's Word appears to clearly reveal that there are those who refuse to believe and rather than fear God they become fools. Are the scriptures not true?

Hammster · Jul 14, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
So why can't it be true of those who do believe the gospel because there are multitudes who don't believe?
The scriptures say that... although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God. And the scriptures also say that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. God's Word appears to clearly reveal that there are those who refuse to believe and rather than fear God they become fools. Are the scriptures not true?

The scriptures are true. But we aren't talking about wisdom. We are discussing faith.

RisenInJesus · Jul 14, 2017

Hammster said:
The scriptures are true. But we aren't talking about wisdom. We are discussing faith.

So are you saying that faith in God is unwise? Or that faith is unrelated to wisdom? It seems that throughout the OT and NT God stresses the importance of wisdom as an integral part of acknowledging and expressing faith in Him. The NT clearly reveals that in Christ ... are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col. 2:3

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 16:16-17

Hammster · Jul 14, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
So are you saying that faith in God is unwise? Or that faith is unrelated to wisdom? It seems that throughout the OT and NT God stresses the importance of wisdom as an integral part of acknowledging and expressing faith in Him. The NT clearly reveals that in Christ ... are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Col. 2:3

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, To turn one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 16:16-17

Well, I guess if you squint just right you can say that having faith and having wisdom are the same thing, essentially. But I don't think it will pass the smell test.

RisenInJesus · Jul 14, 2017

Hammster said:
Well, I guess if you squint just right you can say that having faith and having wisdom are the same thing, essentially. But I don't think it will pass the smell test.

I've not said they are the same thing. I am pointing out a connection, that the fear and/or reverence of God leads to seeking God's wisdom and this wisdom opens one to receptiveness to faith in the gospel.

Hammster · Jul 14, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
I've not said they are the same thing. I am pointing out a connection, that the fear and/or reverence of God leads to seeking God's wisdom and this wisdom opens one to receptiveness to faith in the gospel.

Okay, for the sake of argument, I'll assume you are correct. Why would someone go from suppressing the knowledge of truth, to fearing and revering God?

RisenInJesus · Jul 14, 2017

Hammster said:
Okay, for the sake of argument, I'll assume you are correct. Why would someone go from suppressing the knowledge of truth, to fearing and revering God?

I'm sure there are too many possible reasons that someone may do so to even begin answering that question. I knew someone who placed faith in Christ after the death of their son. I know someone right now who has suppressed and rejected the truth of the gospel for years. He has just been diagnosed with a very serious cancer. Maybe this will cause him to realize he is finite, not in control, and see his need for a Savior. People often begin fearing God and seeking Him when confronted with death or difficult things beyond themselves. I believe God is continuously at work in everyone's life and their circumstances to call their attention to spiritual, eternal reality and their need for Him.

jimmyjimmy · Jul 14, 2017

ChristianFromKazakhstan said:
If one has no faith, they need to start beleiving. And then they will have faith.

What are you even talking about???

jimmyjimmy · Jul 14, 2017

Hammster said:
Okay, for the sake of argument, I'll assume you are correct. Why would someone go from suppressing the knowledge of truth, to fearing and revering God?

Why and how.

Hammster · Jul 14, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
I'm sure there are too many possible reasons that someone may do so to even begin answering that question. I knew someone who placed faith in Christ after the death of their son. I know someone right now who has suppressed and rejected the truth of the gospel for years. He has just been diagnosed with a very serious cancer. Maybe this will cause him to realize he is finite, not in control, and see his need for a Savior. People often begin fearing God and seeking Him when confronted with death or difficult things beyond themselves. I believe God is continuously at work in everyone's life and their circumstances to call their attention to spiritual, eternal reality and their need for Him.

This is, essentially, Pelagianism. You should probably rethink your understanding.

jimmyjimmy · Jul 15, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
I'm sure there are too many possible reasons that someone may do so to even begin answering that question. I knew someone who placed faith in Christ after the death of their son. I know someone right now who has suppressed and rejected the truth of the gospel for years. He has just been diagnosed with a very serious cancer. Maybe this will cause him to realize he is finite, not in control, and see his need for a Savior. People often begin fearing God and seeking Him when confronted with death or difficult things beyond themselves. I believe God is continuously at work in everyone's life and their circumstances to call their attention to spiritual, eternal reality and their need for Him.

This should mean that most people in war-torn third world counties should be Christians.

RisenInJesus · Jul 15, 2017

Hammster said:
This is, essentially, Pelagianism. You should probably rethink your understanding.

No, it is not. Pelagianism or at least what has become known as Pelagianism includes the idea that man is basically good, the denial of original sin, and that man can choose God or to do good without divine aid. I believe all people are born with a sinful nature, are incapable of pleasing God or saving themselves apart from Christ. And I have said I believe God is at work in each person's life calling them to realize their fallen state and need of a Savior. Call me a traditionalist or fundamentalist if you must use labels, but I'm not a Pelagianist or Arminian for that matter.

Pelagianism: The Calvinist's Boogie Man

RisenInJesus · Jul 15, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
This should mean that most people in war-torn third world counties should Christians.

No, it doesn't. Besides, you have no way of knowing what people in third world war-torn countries have called out to God and He has answered and led them to Himself. Along with that the scriptures are pretty clear that everywhere wherever people are the truth of God and/or the gospel is often rejected.

Can You Create Faith?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Pardoned Rebel

Pardoned Rebel

Psalm 144:1

Pardoned Rebel

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads