Monogamy/Non-Monogamy/Divorce

JRichard68

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Martin Luther once wrote:
"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter."

Article said:
As Grisar explained, the situation which provoked the letter was the sickness of a wife preventing "matrimonial intercourse." One must not immediately place this situation in a 21st century context. Offspring in the sixtennth century were of vital importance. Luther's response was not an all out anything goes. Rather, the comment was directed to an exception (For more on the "exception," see my earlier blog article). It is true Luther allowed for polygamy, but only in a very narrow sense. Luther scholar Heinrich Boehmer points out that it was only to be in cases of

"...severe necessity, for instance, if the wife develops leprosy or becomes otherwise unfit to live with her husband… But this permission is always to be restricted to such cases as severe necessity. The idea of legalizing general polygamy was far from the reformers mind. Monogamy was always to him the regular form of matrimony…" (Luther And The Reformation in Light of Modern Research, 213-214, emphasis mine).
Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Luther: "I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture"
 
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JRichard68

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... and whats the issue? lol

All I said was that polygamy isn't denounced as a sin in the Bible... and it's not. Don't really know what that has to do with CF's TOS.
If I were the OP, I'd certainly take that and run with it, especially if I knew I had Luther's 'o.k.' (which I don't...) And it has to do with the TOS as something that can't be promoted.
 
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Tetra

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If I were the OP, I'd certainly take that and run with it. And it has to do with the TOS as something that can't be promoted.
I'm not promoting anything other than stating what is (or isn't in this case) in the Bible. If you can show that the Bible explicitly denounces polygamy as a sin... send me the chapter and verse.
 
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PloverWing

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I want to look at a couple of items in the original post from a human point of view. That is, God gives us grace, but we also exercise self-discipline in our daily lives, and I want to look at self-discipline possibilities.

I‘ve had accountability partners

Is it possible to take this idea one step farther? Confide in a few friends that you're trying to be monogamous, and then make sure you're never, ever alone with a woman who's not your wife, employing these friends as chaperones if needed.

I want other partners and she doesn’t.

Deep down, what do you mean by this? Do you truly want other partners? or, alternatively, do other women catch your eye, and you don't really want them but it's hard to resist? If you actually do want other partners -- if you'd prefer to be polygamous if your wife was okay with that -- then that's a deeper issue than just resisting the occasional fleeting temptation. What do you really want?
 
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Tetra

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If I were the OP, I'd certainly take that and run with it, especially if I knew I had Luther's 'o.k.' (which I don't...) And it has to do with the TOS as something that can't be promoted.
Just so we're clear, my comment was to someone else... not the OP. This person stated there was a contradiction when there wasn't, I was clearing that up.

I've never once said it isn't God's original plan that one man be married to one woman, it clearly is, as it's stated in the Bible.

However, I will also add it was also God's original plan we would be nudest homeless (Genesis 2:25) vegans (Genesis 1:29-30).

Once again, not "promoting" anything, just stating what is / isn't in Scripture.
 
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You do not understand. I have given God the power over my situation, but I keep on sinning the same sins. Surrender is not the key.Surrender brings more pain, pain to my inner being. No joy in obedience. No peace in surrendering to God. No strength in my weakness. That's just it. I've tried it all, and done it all.

I know his role is not to do what I want him to do, but how can I do what he tells me to do if it is joyless, painful, and agonizing? The joy of the Lord is supposed to be my strength, but there is no joy in serving God. There is only work. NO rest. Ever. And no salvation. All of these things are products of Gods grace and salvation, but I receive none of them. God is indeed a liar.
Oh well if you want to give up and call God a LIAR and keep on feeling sorry for yourself then none of us can help you, stop feeling sorry for yourself and pick up your balls and YOU MAKE the change, stop going on and on about GOD being the LIAR. No Sir you are the LIAR! You are the one that lies to himself! Pick yourself up and move forward, god can only do so much if you are not willing to HELP HIM OUT within yourself you are BLOCKING HIM! God bless and pick yourself up!
 
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Oh well if you want to give up and call God a LIAR and keep on feeling sorry for yourself then none of us can help you, stop feeling sorry for yourself and pick up your balls and YOU MAKE the change, stop going on and on about GOD being the LIAR. No Sir you are the LIAR! You are the one that lies to himself! Pick yourself up and move forward, god can only do so much if you are not willing to HELP HIM OUT within yourself you are BLOCKING HIM! God bless and pick yourself up!
I've gone through a fr darker place than that, I felt all these things you felt, I tried it all, went in to isolation, lost all the people I loved ALL AROUND ME I gave up for YEARS and YEARS a very dark dark dark place to be very dark. I prayed, nothing, I woke up one day and said "F It! I am making that change TODAY and I WILL OVERCOME!!" I did! I started picking MYSELF up and being DETERMINED and nothing was going to stop me!! I mean NOTHING! YOU CAN DO IT!! GO FORWARD AND NEVER STEP BACK EVER!
 
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JRichard68

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I'm not promoting anything other than stating what is (or isn't in this case) in the Bible. If you can show that the Bible explicitly denounces polygamy as a sin... send me the chapter and verse.
I'd love to, but you know the answer. However, Sola-Scriptura to absurd levels doesn't do anyone any favors, either.
But I get your point :)
 
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aiki

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... and whats the issue? lol

All I said was that polygamy isn't denounced as a sin in the Bible... and it's not. Don't really know what that has to do with CF's TOS.

It isn't approved by Scripture, either. A description of polygamous behaviour is not necessarily a prescription for it. In fact, the general tenor of Scripture is against polygamy. From the very beginning God made Adam and Eve, not Adam, and Eve, and Sally, and Beth, and Sarah and...you get the idea. You will not find a single instance in the New Testament where polygamy is even obliquely commended. But you will find Paul writing that bishops and deacons are to be husbands of one wife, not many.
 
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MournfulWatcher

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There are a lot of good responses and a few iffy ones. I will concur with those that say to stop with the self-pity and start taking responsibility and control of your actions.

You can absolutely be forgiven. But you can't get anywhere by just praying for God to help you but then WILLINGLY going to have sex with other women. You said in your original post that you want multiple partners but also your marriage. You cannot have both.

Sex is not made for just yourself--you need to concern yourself with pleasing your wife. You seek other women to bring selfish pleasure--you do not care about pleasing your wife until after the fact.

Your flesh and your spirit are in conflict, but you're letting the flesh win. God gave you free will, you can make your own decisions. He can help you with managing temptation, but only if you make an effort to flee from it (stop watching inappropriate content, stop going to bars alone, just stop sleeping with other women.)

I believe you care for your wife, but only when you feel convicted after sleeping with other women. Only when you see the look on her face when she realizes.

Having multiple partners brings you sinful pleasure, not joy. It is meaningless and empty and will not give you what your spirit desires, which is God. If you truly seek happiness, then seek to obey God, for that is what human beings are made for; if we try to find happiness outside of God, we will never find it, because it is literally impossible for us to find joy and peace outside of Him. We are made for Him. Is a paintbrush fulfilling its purpose when being used as a hammer?

You choose what side you're on-- Good or evil. Jesus or Satan. Because that is what it comes down to. Choice.

Have faith--pray for God to give you faith, and He will give it to you because it is His will. It is His will for you to be free from sin, but you have to make the effort and tell yourself "No."
 
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Alithis

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Xavier Cane.... 1st.. I am not against this site.. but questions like this.. should not be asked here. Well you will get MANY different answers. ALL of us are out side the loop. Yet you asked..

I have been married over 30y. Never been with any other woman. Now.. by GODS rules/law.. just in my mind..I have. In His eyes its the same. Just putting that out there.. what so many dont understand is John 8:36 So if the Son frees you, you will really be free! Rom 6:14 For sin will not have authority over you; because you are not under legalism but under grace. 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new.

I can keep going. You need to SEE through Christ. Meaning.. its DONE..its OVER! Though the flesh has not been changed and we ALL EVERYONE that is in Christ battles something. Yet.. see through HIS eyes.. your being LIED TO! Yes.. a lie. This SIN has no hold on you. Are you in Christ? Then old things have passed off and ALL THINGS have become new. See we walk by FAITH..this FAITH comes by HIS WORD! Read it. Find what the word says and speak it. Like... NO.. whom the son sets free is free indeed! That sin no longer has a hold on me.. like fear? God has not given me the spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind <-----you speak HIS word.. you resist the devil and he HAS to flee.

Faith.. you walk NOT by what you see feel or hear. You walk by FAITH! My dear brother.. you have been set free. IT that SIN lies.. it does NOT want to go.. it has no choice. As long as that sin or any sin can get us to believe in which ALL things are possible to them that believe.. so for GOOD or BAD faith WORKS!

Speak TRUTH! You have been set free. Heart.. desires? Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. <----speak this.. I do all the time.

For you Isa 41:10... I mean FOR YOU.. HE SAID IT..for YOU! Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Speak His word.. KNOW that you know.. not by how you FEEL..but HE CANT LIE.. HE is faithful and true. No matter what it looks like sounds like feels like.. walk by faith by HIS WORD! Its HIM you serve. And HE does not judge you nor condemn you. He has NEVER EVER EVER EVER given up on you. There is no sin that controls you...haha.. yeah.. all a lie. THINK.. I have been set free.. I am really FREE..there are no more chains that bind me.. they dont want to let go.. THEY HAVE TO! yet as long as you confess you are still? What ever it is.. see if the WORD OF GOD says YOUR ARE FREE! THEN BELIEVE IT! I dont care if 7 BILLION people tell me something else..can PROOF what ever.. if GOD says different.. I am with HIM! For up to this very day HE has never ever ever ever failed me...nor you.

You are free my brother in Jesus name. The Jewish word says it like this "Then God’s shalom (peace), passing all understanding, will keep your hearts and minds safe in union with the Messiah Yeshua. So He gave you HIS peace.. not like the world....this SIN does NOT have any right to you.. unless you FREELY give it. I know of what speak. And I can only steak on what I know.
The Op has not for 30 years taken Any of this kind of advice.
The op loves his sin .and will perish in it if he does not repent .
We always follow what We Love the most and become a slave to the one we serve.
 
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Easy813

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@Xavier Cane
Commandments are there to know what God want us to banish from your life. I think the simple fact of knowing that what you do doesn't please Him should be a sufficient source of motivation for you to stop. I know you can do it, just believe in yourself.
God bless you!
 
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JacksBratt

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As for polygamy, it's not supported by CF rules regarding Christian marriage:
It's also illegal in Canada and the US and as Christians we are to abide by the laws of the land as long as it does not cause us to sin.

Abstaining from polygamy would fall into this category.
 
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SkyWriting

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If you can show that the Bible explicitly denounces polygamy as a sin... send me the chapter and verse.

There is nothing explicitly about raping your grandmother or having sex with your grandkids, so is that a good plan?
 
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ChristianFromKazakhstan

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I need some advice.

My wife and I have been married for almost 14 years, and I have not been faithful to her for a single 12 month period. We have 3 children together between ages 6 and 11. She knows of all the times I have cheated, and chose to remain for any number of reasons. I love this woman, and she loves me, but the problem is that I never been able to gain victory over sins of the flesh. I’ve done all I know to do, gave my life to Jesus (before we got married actually) I‘ve had accountability partners, counseling, confession, prayer, fasting, yielding to the Sprit, and none of it seems to work. I told my wife that she should divorce me, because I’m pretty confident that a person like me cannot be saved by God. The problem is that she has very few options, and that makes me sad because I did this to her. At any rate, I know she is not willing to be in a non-monogamous relationship, and I told her that I would never lie to her again. I want to stay married, and one day I will make a really good husband, and that will be the day I get some self-control, because I have none. I tried to kill self at the Cross of Jesus, but that didn’t help either. Self-denial is not a strong point.

What should I do? I want other partners and she doesn’t. I want my marriage, but God won’t take away this evil desire for other women, and I cannot take it away myself. I know this sounds like I’m blaming God, but I’m not. I take the full blame….But God never once gave me the strength to overcome when I asked him to….Not one time, and that is supposed to be one of the benefits of Salvation, freedom from the power of sin. I’m so messed up.

She can’t afford to move and neither can I. I told her that I would move into the attic if she wanted to leave me. I still advise her to leave, but it seems like she wants to stick around. She can see the effort I put in to try and make myself a good husband. I do all the things a husband should do except for one. The only thing I cannot do is be monogamous.

Jesus Help Me please.

The OT established polygamy. So being with many many women is OK
 
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writewords

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I need some advice.

My wife and I have been married for almost 14 years, and I have not been faithful to her for a single 12 month period. We have 3 children together between ages 6 and 11. She knows of all the times I have cheated, and chose to remain for any number of reasons. I love this woman, and she loves me, but the problem is that I never been able to gain victory over sins of the flesh. I’ve done all I know to do, gave my life to Jesus (before we got married actually) I‘ve had accountability partners, counseling, confession, prayer, fasting, yielding to the Sprit, and none of it seems to work. I told my wife that she should divorce me, because I’m pretty confident that a person like me cannot be saved by God. The problem is that she has very few options, and that makes me sad because I did this to her. At any rate, I know she is not willing to be in a non-monogamous relationship, and I told her that I would never lie to her again. I want to stay married, and one day I will make a really good husband, and that will be the day I get some self-control, because I have none. I tried to kill self at the Cross of Jesus, but that didn’t help either. Self-denial is not a strong point.

What should I do? I want other partners and she doesn’t. I want my marriage, but God won’t take away this evil desire for other women, and I cannot take it away myself. I know this sounds like I’m blaming God, but I’m not. I take the full blame….But God never once gave me the strength to overcome when I asked him to….Not one time, and that is supposed to be one of the benefits of Salvation, freedom from the power of sin. I’m so messed up.

She can’t afford to move and neither can I. I told her that I would move into the attic if she wanted to leave me. I still advise her to leave, but it seems like she wants to stick around. She can see the effort I put in to try and make myself a good husband. I do all the things a husband should do except for one. The only thing I cannot do is be monogamous.

Jesus Help Me please.

If you do not believe it will work, then it will not. "Without faith it is impossible to please Him," Hebrews 11:7. Do you not know that faith is the agent by which grace is given? If you have no faith, then Grace will not arrive.
 
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Tetra

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There is nothing explicitly about raping your grandmother or having sex with your grandkids, so is that a good plan?
Argument from false analogy. God permitted polygamy in the Bible, God never permits rape or incest. Nice try though. lol
 
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redstang281

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There is nothing explicitly about raping your grandmother or having sex with your grandkids, so is that a good plan?

There is.

Leviticus 18:10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.
 
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redstang281

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I need some advice.

My wife and I have been married for almost 14 years, and I have not been faithful to her for a single 12 month period. ....

I was just curious to ask because I didn't see where anyone else had already done so, but does your wife meet your sexual needs?

Often times society and christian communities put all the blame on men, but your wife has a duty to you to provide all your sexual needs. That's the only way monogamy can work.

God is not against polygamy. In the Bible he makes allowances for it, he never outlaws it. He even told David he would have given him more wives had he asked. Maybe that's why even though you are a Christian you can't have victory over this. You're not fighting against God's rules you are fighting against man's rules on polygamy. If you live in a country that polygamy is illegal you could consider moving.
 
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