If a Protestant Gives You a Bible

GingerBeer

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I am pleased that you acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of Catholics, especially throughout Europe, do not attend mass regularly and therefore are living in a state of mortal sin.

I would not know if any specific person was in mortal sin or not. It really isn't my business. So You are mistaken when you assert "I am pleased that you acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of Catholics, ... are living in a state of mortal sin". Catholics say that "For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent." " It would be very hard to know if not attending mass on Sundays was happening under the conditions mentioned. But if you are privy to such information for the "vast majority of Catholics" then you apparently have nearly obtained omniscience for yourself. That is not likely to be true so I suspect that what you say is a "fact" is really only an opinion that is not well founded.

For those who do attend mass regularly my assertion still applies. Not long ago I wanted to upload copies of the questionable books to my computer and went to a popular Catholic website to do so. To my great surprise none of them were available although the other 66 were.

The Vatican web site has a link to a bible in English. I think that of all the Catholic web sites in the world the Vatican one is the most widely known. Did you check it? Here's a link for the bible that they recommend.
Books of the Bible

I called the people who were responsible for the site and they had never heard of these books. I had to explain to them what they were.
How curious. The Catechism of the Catholic Church lists all the books of the bible. If the people running the site you contacted do not know what books are in the bible then maybe they are not Catholics. Would you tell us which site it was, please?
 
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GingerBeer

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They are clearly uninspired. (it doesn't take long reading them to find out)
Catholics say that they are inspired and you say that they are not inspired. Looks like the kind of religious dispute that continues to separate Catholics from Anabaptists.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Catholics say that they are inspired and you say that they are not inspired. Looks like the kind of religious dispute that continues to separate Catholics from Anabaptists.
Good.
Very observant.
(or at least a little)

Seek what YHWH says, and keep seeking, and He Promises you will know. (His Word, not man's, guarantees this).....
 
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bbbbbbb

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I would not know if any specific person was in mortal sin or not. It really isn't my business. So You are mistaken when you assert "I am pleased that you acknowledge the fact that the vast majority of Catholics, ... are living in a state of mortal sin". Catholics say that "For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent." " It would be very hard to know if not attending mass on Sundays was happening under the conditions mentioned. But if you are privy to such information for the "vast majority of Catholics" then you apparently have nearly obtained omniscience for yourself. That is not likely to be true so I suspect that what you say is a "fact" is really only an opinion that is not well founded.



The Vatican web site has a link to a bible in English. I think that of all the Catholic web sites in the world the Vatican one is the most widely known. Did you check it? Here's a link for the bible that they recommend.
Books of the Bible


How curious. The Catechism of the Catholic Church lists all the books of the bible. If the people running the site you contacted do not know what books are in the bible then maybe they are not Catholics. Would you tell us which site it was, please?

How about this site? Home | Catholic Answers
 
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GingerBeer

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bbbbbbb

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Is that the site that you got your "catholic bible" from? I could not find a bible on it. But I did not spend much time looking. Just a few minutes.

Exactly. There is no Bible there at all. Why is that? Could it be that the Bible is completely irrelevant to the vast majority of Catholics? You will note, of course, that the site contains enormous amounts of Catholic information which has little or not direct relationship with the Bible.

Here is another Catholic website. The Mission of Dynamic Catholic - The Dynamic Catholic Institute It has a book program which includes all manner of books - except the Bible, of course. Why is that?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Why is that?
I heard and read a few years ago, that
there were laws passed in the last 50 years, by some law makers /leaders/ in some country or in some religion,

that FORBIDS the Name of God - it cannot be printed, spoken, or published, or seen, or brought into the building, onto the premises, by anyone .....
 
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GingerBeer

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Exactly. There is no Bible there at all. Why is that? Could it be that the Bible is completely irrelevant to the vast majority of Catholics?
How would I know. Did you phone Catholic Answers and ask them why they do not have a bible on the site? I think it is likely that since bibles are available from the USCCB site and numerous other Catholic web sites they'd say "Just open a new tab in your browser and go to Books of the Bible and you have your bible"
 
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GingerBeer

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FORBIDS the Name of God - it cannot be printed, spoken, or published, or seen, or brought into the building, onto the premises, by anyone .....
The Jerusalem Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible both use Yahweh for every use of the tetragrammaton in the old testament. Since both of those bibles are Catholic bibles produced by a Catholic religious order your claim seems to be incorrect.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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your claim seems to be incorrect.
2 corrections: it is not my claim, it is what I heard and saw reported; (and is in character with the beast government that is growing daily),
and
"seems to be" (no worries there); if and when you learn the truth, if you love the truth,
then you will know it is truth, according to what is written in God's Word,
and the truth will set you free.
 
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GingerBeer

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2 corrections: it is not my claim, it is what I heard and saw reported; (and is in character with the beast government that is growing daily),
and
"seems to be" (no worries there); if and when you learn the truth, if you love the truth,
then you will know it is truth, according to what is written in God's Word,
and the truth will set you free.
Your claim is incorrect. Have you read any old testament passages from the Jerusalem bible or the New Jerusalem bible?
1 Moses called all Israel together and said to them, 'Listen, Israel, to the laws and customs that I proclaim to you today. Learn them and take care to observe them.

God made a covenant with us at Horeb.

3 Yahweh made this covenant not with our ancestors, but with us, with all of us alive here today.

Yahweh spoke to you face to face,

Yahweh to let you know what Yahweh was saying, since you were afraid of the fire and had not gone up the mountain. He said:

Yahweh your God who brought you out of Egypt, out of the place of slave-labour.

will have no gods other than me.

heaven above or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth;

Yahweh your God, am a jealous God and I punish the parents' fault in the children, the grandchildren and the great-grandchildren, among those who hate me;

10 but I show faithful love to thousands, to those who love me and keep my commandments.

Yahweh your God, for Yahweh will not leave unpunished anyone who uses his name for what is false.

Sabbath day and keep it holy, as Yahweh your God has commanded you.

13 Labour for six days, doing all your work,

Sabbath for Yahweh your God. You must not do any work that day, neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your servants -- male or female -- nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your animals, nor the foreigner who has made his home with you;

Yahweh your God brought you out of there with mighty hand and outstretched arm; this is why Yahweh your God has commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Yahweh your God has commanded you, so that you may have long life and may prosper in the country which Yahweh your God is giving you.

17 ' "You must not kill.

18 ' "You must not commit adultery.

19 ' "You must not steal.

20 ' "You must not give false evidence against your fellow.

21 ' "You must not set your heart on your neighbour's spouse, you must not set your heart on your neighbour's house, or field, or servant-man or woman -- or ox, or donkey or any of your neighbour's possessions."​
Deuteronomy 5:1-21 from the New Jerusalem Bible.
 
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bbbbbbb

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How would I know. Did you phone Catholic Answers and ask them why they do not have a bible on the site? I think it is likely that since bibles are available from the USCCB site and numerous other Catholic web sites they'd say "Just open a new tab in your browser and go to Books of the Bible and you have your bible"

The organization I first contacted was catholic.org. They now have an on-line Bible on their website. That said, of the various Catholic websites which are evangelistic in nature virtually all of them promote Catholic books, but none even mention the Bible, much less promote it. I suggest that is because the Catholic Church is, at best, indifferent about the idea of people reading the Bible on their own,
 
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GingerBeer

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of the various Catholic websites which are evangelistic in nature virtually all of them promote Catholic books, but none even mention the Bible, much less promote it. I suggest that is because the Catholic Church is, at best, indifferent about the idea of people reading the Bible on their own,
Did you read the quote from Dei Verbum that I posted earlier in this thread? I'll post it here again so you can see it easily.
CHAPTER III

SACRED SCRIPTURE, ITS INSPIRATION AND DIVINE INTERPRETATION


11. Those divinely revealed realities which are contained and presented in Sacred Scripture have been committed to writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. For holy mother Church, relying on the belief of the Apostles (see John 20:31; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:19-20, 3:15-16), holds that the books of both the Old and New Testaments in their entirety, with all their parts, are sacred and canonical because written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author and have been handed on as such to the Church herself.(1) In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by Him (2) they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with Him acting in them and through them, (3) they, as true authors, consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted. (4)

Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings (5) for the sake of salvation. Therefore "all Scripture is divinely inspired and has its use for teaching the truth and refuting error, for reformation of manners and discipline in right living, so that the man who belongs to God may be efficient and equipped for good work of every kind" (2 Tim. 3:16-17, Greek text).​
taken from Dei Verbum available online at Dei verbum
 
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bbbbbbb

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Did you read the quote from Dei Verbum that I posted earlier in this thread? I'll post it here again so you can see it easily.
CHAPTER III

SACRED SCRIPTURE, ITS INSPIRATION AND DIVINE INTERPRETATION


11. Those divinely revealed realities which are contained and presented in Sacred Scripture have been committed to writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. For holy mother Church, relying on the belief of the Apostles (see John 20:31; 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Peter 1:19-20, 3:15-16), holds that the books of both the Old and New Testaments in their entirety, with all their parts, are sacred and canonical because written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they have God as their author and have been handed on as such to the Church herself.(1) In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by Him (2) they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with Him acting in them and through them, (3) they, as true authors, consigned to writing everything and only those things which He wanted. (4)

Therefore, since everything asserted by the inspired authors or sacred writers must be held to be asserted by the Holy Spirit, it follows that the books of Scripture must be acknowledged as teaching solidly, faithfully and without error that truth which God wanted put into sacred writings (5) for the sake of salvation. Therefore "all Scripture is divinely inspired and has its use for teaching the truth and refuting error, for reformation of manners and discipline in right living, so that the man who belongs to God may be efficient and equipped for good work of every kind" (2 Tim. 3:16-17, Greek text).​
taken from Dei Verbum available online at Dei verbum

So? Do have any idea as to how many Catholic websites reference this passage? Or how many Catholics are remotely aware of it? When was the last time your priest mentioned it during mass?

The indisputable fact remains that the Bible is generally ignored by the vast majority of Catholics.
 
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GingerBeer

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So? Do have any idea as to how many Catholic websites reference this passage? Or how many Catholics are remotely aware of it? When was the last time your priest mentioned it during mass?

The indisputable fact remains that the Bible is generally ignored by the vast majority of Catholics.
Yes, most Western Catholics and probably a good many in non-western nations are both aware of the teaching of the second Vatican Council and of the text of Dei Verbum since nearly every modern Catholic translation of the bible includes the text of Dei Verbum.

PS: I do not have a priest. You appear to be labouring under the misconception that I am a Catholic.
 
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concretecamper

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What should a Roman Catholic do if a Protestant gives them a Bible?

I found one answer from a blog called Eponymousflower. This is a blog by traditionalist Catholics, deeply suspicious of post-Vatican II Popes, but still within the Roman Catholic Church.

The answer: Refuse the gift of a Protestant Bible. If it comes in the mail, or you don't unwrap it until you get home, burn it. Yes, throw it into a fire, or light a fire to burn this Protestant Bible.

Where does this bizarre attitude come from? The blog cites the Catechism of Pope Pius X, who reigned from 1903-1914, and was canonized as a saint by Pope Pius XII in 1954.

An excerpt from the Catechism of Pope Pius X under the heading The Ninth Article of the Creed and Communion of the Saints:

<< Q. What should a Christian do who has been given a Bible by a Protestant or by an agent of the Protestants?
A. A Christian to whom a Bible has been offered by a Protestant or an agent of the Protestants should reject it with disgust, because it is forbidden by the Church. If it was accepted by inadvertence, it must be burnt as soon as possible or handed in to the Parish Priest. >>

Note: "burnt as soon as possible." Why does Pius X take this position?

<< 33 Q. Why does the Church forbid Protestant Bibles?
A. The Church forbids Protestant Bibles because, either they have been altered and contain errors, or not having her approbation and footnotes explaining the obscure meanings, they may be harmful to the Faith. It is for that same reason that the Church even forbids translations of the Holy Scriptures already approved by her which have been reprinted without the footnotes approved by her. >>


In other words, the footnotes approved by the Vatican are more important than the text of the Bible, even if the translation is both accurate and approved. Even if there are no Protestant notes, it is still forbidden. It really sounds like Pius X is afraid to have Catholics read the text of the Bible.

The article where this occurs is written by Giuseppe Nardi. So far the blog might be on good ground if you respect popes more than you respect the Bible. There is one word of caution that might make sense even to a traditionalist Catholic. The Catechism of Pius X was only used in Rome and parts of Italy. It was never addressed to the whole Church or to all priests. Even Pius X wasn't foolish enough to send this Catechism to a country with lots of Protestants.

For myself, the lack of respect for Scripture here is appalling. I don't know whether to be more amazed that a Twentieth Century Pope said such a thing, that he was later elevated to sainthood, or that people are still quoting and following one of the most foolish things he ever said.


Link to Blog:
http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2015/06/pope-kisses-waldensian-bible-pope.htm

Link to Catechism of Pius X:
CATECHISM OF ST

Since I don't have a fireplace I would just throw it away. However, I agree 1,000% with the sentiments Pius X conveys.
 
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Dale

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Do you really wonder that?
Pope John Paul II...?
Pope Francis...?
You really wonder that?
Really?

Have you been living in a cave?


There is no doubt that recent popes such as Pope Francis are very different from a reactionary pope like Pius X from the early 20th century.

On the other hand, do the post-Vatican II popes really have any more respect for the Bible?
Times have changed but does that mean they are learning from the Bible and the God who inspired it?
 
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bbbbbbb

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Yes, most Western Catholics and probably a good many in non-western nations are both aware of the teaching of the second Vatican Council and of the text of Dei Verbum since nearly every modern Catholic translation of the bible includes the text of Dei Verbum.

PS: I do not have a priest. You appear to be labouring under the misconception that I am a Catholic.

I was, indeed, thinking that you are a Catholic. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I think at this point I will let the Catholic posters pick this ball up for you.
 
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GingerBeer

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I was, indeed, thinking that you are a Catholic. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I think at this point I will let the Catholic posters pick this ball up for you.
I think many Catholics will agree with what I have presented from Catholic sources and with the conclusions that I gave (from a Catholic perspective). They would not agree with the conclusions I presented from a protestant perspective. The reason I think that they will agree is that facts are facts and the facts differ from the things you claimed about Catholic views and Catholic teaching.
 
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GingerBeer

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do the post-Vatican II popes really have any more respect for the Bible?
Times have changed but does that mean they are learning from the Bible and the God who inspired it?
Have you checked what Catholics said about the scriptures in the council of Trent and in the catechism of the council of Trent? As far as I can tell their views about scripture and about its role in Catholic teaching have not changed.
Decree Concerning The Canonical Scriptures

The holy, ecumenical and general Council of Trent, lawfully assembled in the Holy Ghost, the same three legates of the Apostolic See presiding, keeps this constantly in view, namely, that the purity of the Gospel may be preserved in the Church after the errors have been removed.

This [Gospel], of old promised through the Prophets in the Holy Scriptures,[1] our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, promulgated first with His own mouth, and then commanded it to be preached by His Apostles to every creature[2] as the source at once of all saving truth and rules of conduct.

It also clearly perceives that these truths and rules are contained in the written books and in the unwritten traditions, which, received by the Apostles from the mouth of Christ Himself, or from the Apostles themselves,[3] the Holy Ghost dictating, have come down to us, transmitted as it were from hand to hand.

Following, then, the examples of the orthodox Fathers, it receives and venerates with a feeling of piety and reverence all the books both of the Old and New Testaments, since one God is the author of both; also the traditions, whether they relate to faith or to morals, as having been dictated either orally by Christ or by the Holy Ghost, and preserved in the Catholic Church in unbroken succession.

It has thought it proper, moreover, to insert in this decree a list of the sacred books, lest a doubt might arise in the mind of someone as to which are the books received by this council.[4]

They are the following:

Of the Old Testament, the five books of Moses, namely, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy; Josue, Judges, Ruth, the four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first and second of Esdras, the latter of which is called Nehemias, Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidic Psalter of 150 Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch, Ezechiel, Daniel, the twelve minor Prophets, namely, Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggeus, Zacharias, Malachias; two books of Machabees, the first and second.

Of the New Testament, the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen Epistles of Paul the Apostle, to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the Apostle, three of John the Apostle, one of James the Apostle, one of Jude the Apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the Apostle.

If anyone does not accept as sacred and canonical the aforesaid books in their entirety and with all their parts, as they have been accustomed to be read in the Catholic Church and as they are contained in the old Latin Vulgate Edition, and knowingly and deliberately rejects the aforesaid traditions, let him be anathema.

Let all understand, therefore, in what order and manner the council, after having laid the foundation of the confession of faith, will proceed, and who are the chief witnesses and supports to whom it will appeal in conforming dogmas and in restoring morals in the Church.​
From Session 4 of the council of Trent - source Paul III  Council of Trent-4
 
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