God's Sabbath rest is not a weekly seventh day rest

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Actually, He did.
God commanded Israel only to observe the seventh-day rest, but God commanded all people everywhere to find true rest in Christ:

“Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest…and you will find rest for your souls.” -- (Matthew 11:28-29).
Yes, Christ died to bring true rest to the entire world, a rest which the Israelites rejected.
God didn't rest one day a week is what I was talking about. Otherwise we agree.
 
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How long does it take to understand some here have no desire to learn and only try an force others to take their opinion. It's very clear to me the OP isn't open to discussion or the fact they could be wrong.
Perhaps I mixed the OP up with someone else in my haste due to time constraints. I extend my apologies to the OP.
 
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The 'rest' is used in more than one sense. It is the rest we have in Christ, and it is the rest the world will have during the Messianic age.
Isn't the rest people will have in the Messianic age a physical rest as in peace?
 
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How did you arrive at that conclusion? :scratch:

The OP has been in open discussion in this thread throughout its entire five pages.
My sincerest apologies. I got you mixed up with someone else maybe because I was responding to the quoted in your post.
 
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Paul is referring to observing special days to the Lord in general. God does not require us to observe special days, including Sabbath days. But He does appreciate us setting aside time for Him. This is why Paul said:

He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. -- (Romans 14:4-6).
The first two verses of Romans 14 explains the context of what Paul is talking about, and it’s not a day of fasting:

“Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.” -- (Romans 14:1-2).

Paul is addressing a dispute over whether or not to eat meat, a dispute over which foods should be eaten, and not a dispute over fasting, which is the complete opposite.

Paul in Romans 14 is addressing controversial issues regarding the Jewish law, issues concerning unclean foods and observing special days.
Just because something was sanctified as holy does not mean it is required forever:

The tabernacle shall be sanctified by My glory. And I will sanctify the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar: I will sanctify also both Aaron and his sons, to minister to Me in the priest's office. -- (Exodus 29:43-44).

The tabernacle was sanctified, the alter was sanctified, Aron and his sons were sanctified, the seventh day was sanctified, but sanctification does not mean forever. Even the nation of Israel was sanctified as God's holy people, but not any more.
The idea Paul is presenting for me is disputable matters and not the illustration he uses. So many people get hung up on an illustration as being the subject. They're blinded so to speak. That's why Jesus spoke in parables (illustrations). Words are pictures.
 
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I considered this. But what I see is the whole issue seems to have to do with eating, not sabbath days.

Paul appears to be addressing those who argue that people should only eat certain kinds of foods (v.v. 2-3), while also addressing those who think fasting should be designated for certain days (v.v. 4-6). That's what I see here.

I don't see any proof that Paul is saying the Sabbath is no longer applicable to Christians.
Days aren't food. Days are included in Paul's discussion. Paul is addressing the issues of Acts 15.
 
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woobadooba

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Paul says keeping holy days doesn't matter. So indeed it is Paul who says it doesn't matter and not a 3d party. Since both Paul and some pastor say the same thing, who is the liar? The premise of keeping the sabbath is required is necessary to make some pastor a liar.
Show me one text in the writings of Paul where he specifically says that keeping the Sabbath day holy doesn't matter anymore, and I will change my position. The word, "Sabbath," does not appear in Romans 14:5-6. Therefore, you cannot use this as a proof text to validate your belief that Paul was saying keeping the Sabbath day holy didn't matter anymore.

Based on the context, it is more reasonable to conclude that Paul was referring to days people designated for fasting, not sabbaths.

The problem with you and people who think like you is you don't know how to do proper exegesis. And if you do, you certainly aren't showing it. Instead, you read meaning into the Bible that isn't there in order to support your beliefs.

Peter spoke of people like you: 2 Peter 3:16 (NKJV) "as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures."
 
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Show me one text in the writings of Paul where he specifically says that keeping the Sabbath day holy doesn't matter anymore, and I will change my position. The word, "Sabbath," does not appear in Romans 14:4-6. Therefore, you cannot use this as a proof text to validate your belief that Paul was saying keeping the Sabbath day holy didn't matter anymore.

Based on the context, it is more reasonable to conclude that Paul was referring to days people designated for fasting, not sabbaths.

The problem with you and people who think like you is you don't know how to do proper exegesis. And if you do, you certainly aren't showing it. Instead, you read meaning into the Bible that isn't there in order to support your beliefs.

Peter spoke of people like you: 2 Peter 3:16 (NKJV) "as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures."
You're hung up on a specific word. Do you give more importance to a certain day? If so what would that day be? Does Paul mean something else?

You won't change your position.

Yes 2 Peter 3:16 is important. Who is twisting what Paul said? Do you give more importance to a certain day?
 
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woobadooba

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You're hung up on a specific word.
Yes, because the same word used in the Bible can have different applications depending on the context, and thus it doesn't always mean the same thing throughout. You should know the importance of identifying and defining keywords before drawing a conclusion from a biblical text.
 
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I considered this. But what I see is the whole issue seems to have to do with eating, not sabbath days.

Paul appears to be addressing those who argue that people should only eat certain kinds of foods (v.v. 2-3), while also addressing those who think fasting should be designated for certain days (v.v. 4-6). That's what I see here.
Where do you see fasting in those verses? Fasting is never mentioned.

Like I said, Paul is addressing a dispute over what foods can be eaten, and not a dispute over fasting, which is the complete opposite:

“Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.”
-- (Romans 14:1-2).

It's a dispute about eating, and not about fasting.
I don't see any proof that Paul is saying the Sabbath is no longer applicable to Christians.
The proof is in the entirety of Paul's writings, not just one verse.

The story goes something like this:

God established a covenant, or agreement, with the nation of Israel. This covenant was based on the rules of the Ten Commandments: "Then the LORD said to Moses, 'Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.' Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant — the Ten Commandments." -- (Exodus 34:28).

This Ten Commandment covenant, which included the Sabbath day rule, was the standard by which the righteousness of Israel was judged, a righteousness that was based on the works of the Ten Commandment law.

Judgement by this old covenant law was a very strict judgement, any failure to obey any of these ten rules resulted in instant death: "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death." -- (Exodus 31:15).

Since this Ten Commandment covenant was impossible for Israel to obey and it produced instant death, God made this old covenant obsolete by introducing a new covenant: "For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said: 'The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt'…By calling this covenant 'new,' He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear." -- (Hebrews 8:7-13).

The Ten Commandment covenant which was originally intended to bring righteousness and life, actually brought suffering and death because of Israel's inability to obey it. This is why Paul said: "Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death." -- (Romans 7:9-11).

Since the letter of the old covenant was impossible to obey and only resulted in sin and death, for this reason, God abolished this old covenant letter and introduced the new covenant of the Spirit: "But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the letter." -- ( Romans 7:6).

Christians are called to minister according to the new covenant, according to the new way of the Spirit, and not according to the old way of the letter which was engraved on stone tablets: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory...will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?" -- (2 Corinthians 3:6-8).

The ministry that brought death was established on the Ten Commandments which was engraved in letters on stone tablets. It brought death because it was impossible to obey and only resulted in sin and death. But the ministry of the Spirit, which brings righteousness and life, is established on faith alone in Christ alone, who alone is our righteousness:

"But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe." -- (Romans 3:21-22).

"Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified...For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God...I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, then Christ died for nothing!" -- (Galatians 2:16-21).


"Yet indeed I count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith." -- (Philippians 3:8-9).
 
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woobadooba

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Where do you see fasting in those verses? Fasting is never mentioned.

Like I said, Paul is addressing a dispute over what foods can be eaten, and not a dispute over fasting, which is the complete opposite:

“Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.”
-- (Romans 14:1-2).

It's a dispute about eating, and not about fasting.
A careful reading of Romans 14 shows an emphasis on food, not sabbath days.

It does not make sense that Paul, in speaking of the observance of a day in connection to eating (v. 6), would suddenly imply that the Sabbath is irrelevant to believers. The Sabbath is not the subject; food is.

Romans 14:6 (NKJV) “He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.”

In verse 6 we see what appears to be a parallel, showing a link between the observance of days and eating. What I see Paul saying here is people are free to eat or not to eat on certain days, and that none should judge the other by these things. Whether you choose to eat or not to eat, it does not add to or take anything away from your salvation in Christ.

We find evidence elsewhere in the Scriptures of a belief in fasting on certain days:

Isaiah 58:5 (NKJV) “Is it a fast that I have chosen, A day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush, And to spread out sackcloth and ashes? Would you call this a fast, And an acceptable day to the LORD?”

Luke 18:12 (NKJV) “I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.”

Matthew 9:14 (NKJV) “Then the disciples of John came to Him, saying, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?"

Facts:
1. The emphasis of Romans 14 is on food.
2. There is no mention of the Sabbath in the chapter.
3. Other Scriptures show that certain days were designated for fasting.

Based on these facts, it makes sense to conclude that Romans 14:6 has nothing to do with the Sabbath, but is referring to days of fasting. People were free to eat or not to eat. It was their choice; they were not to be judged by these things, nor judge others by them.
 
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A careful reading of Romans 14 shows an emphasis on food, not sabbath days.

It does not make sense that Paul, in speaking of the observance of a day in connection to eating (v. 6), would suddenly imply that the Sabbath is irrelevant to believers. The Sabbath is not the subject; food is.

Romans 14:6 (NKJV) “He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.”

In verse 6 we see what appears to be a parallel, showing a link between the observance of days and eating. What I see Paul saying here is people are free to eat or not to eat on certain days, and that none should judge the other by these things. Whether you choose to eat or not to eat, it does not add to or take anything away from your salvation in Christ.

We find evidence elsewhere in the Scriptures of a belief in fasting on certain days:

Isaiah 58:5 (NKJV) “Is it a fast that I have chosen, A day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush, And to spread out sackcloth and ashes? Would you call this a fast, And an acceptable day to the LORD?”

Luke 18:12 (NKJV) “I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.”

Matthew 9:14 (NKJV) “Then the disciples of John came to Him, saying, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?"

Facts:
1. The emphasis of Romans 14 is on food.
2. There is no mention of the Sabbath in the chapter.
3. Other Scriptures show that certain days were designated for fasting.

Based on these facts, it makes sense to conclude that Romans 14:6 has nothing to do with the Sabbath, but is referring to days of fasting. People were free to eat or not to eat. It was their choice; they were not to be judged by these things, nor judge others by them.

Several years ago a friend of mine made a connection between Romans 14 and the Mishnah, Tractate Avodah Zarah (Idol Worship). I thought it was rather compelling. He may have picked up on this from Mark Nanos (The Mystery of Romans.)

Basic premise is this: Romans was written to non-Pauline congregations in Rome composed of believing Jews and believing Gentiles. These mixed congregations had problems caused by cultural differences between Jews and Gentiles, specifically in regards to food and days. These stem from Jewish custom and halakah that prohibited eating or drinking things the MAY have been offered to idols. Also part of the problem were Jewish restrictions on doing business with Gentiles at or near pagan holidays. All of these elements can be found in Romans 14 and Avodah Zarah.

Here is a pretty good treatment of the subject.

Here are citations from the Mishnah.
 
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woobadooba

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Several years ago a friend of mine made a connection between Romans 14 and the Mishnah, Tractate Avodah Zarah (Idol Worship). I thought it was rather compelling. He may have picked up on this from Mark Nanos (The Mystery of Romans.)

Basic premise is this: Romans was written to non-Pauline congregations in Rome composed of believing Jews and believing Gentiles. These mixed congregations had problems caused by cultural differences between Jews and Gentiles, specifically in regards to food and days. These stem from Jewish custom and halakah that prohibited eating or drinking things the MAY have been offered to idols. Also part of the problem were Jewish restrictions on doing business with Gentiles at or near pagan holidays. All of these elements can be found in Romans 14 and Avodah Zarah.

Here is a pretty good treatment of the subject.

Here are citations from the Mishnah.
Thank you for sharing. I will look into this.
 
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Indeed... "it remains" --- then we ask 'remains from what?" - and the text says the Sabbath rest remains as it was in the time of David - in Psalms 96.
Actually, God's Sabbath rest remains from since He finished His works of original creation, which was long before David: "For we who have believed do enter that rest...although His works were finished since the creation of the world." -- (Hebrews 4:3).
Remains is very different from "just now deleted" as I am we would all agree.
God's Sabbath rest that remains is not a 24 hour day of rest, but is a perpetual, unceasing period of rest.

God's Sabbath rest began when God permanently ceased from His works of original creation, and His Sabbath rest continued unceasingly throughout the time of David, even to this very day. When God ceased from His works of original creation, it was a permanent ceasing, or permanent rest, because God never returned to work on His original creation.

When we enter God's Sabbath rest we permanently cease from our works just as God permanently ceased from His: "for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own works, just as God did from His." -- (Hebrews 4:9-10).

The seventh-day rest is not God's permanent Sabbath rest, but was only a 24 hour reminder of God's permanent Sabbath rest. The seventh-day rest was only a temporary shadow pointing forward to the permanent reality of God's Sabbath rest that is found only in Christ:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." -- (Colossians 2:16-17).

The reality of God's Sabbath rest is found only in Christ. This is why Christ commands us: "Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest…and you will find rest for your souls." -- (Matthew 11:28-29).
 
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The reality of God's Sabbath rest is found only in Christ. This is why Christ commands us: "Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest…and you will find rest for your souls." -- (Matthew 11:28-29).


Scripture below says He will give you rest.

MATTHEW 11 [27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. [28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In order to find out what rest Jesus is speaking of simply read the very next verse. Keep in mind when this was written it was one continual writing. No chapters and verses.

MATTHEW 12 [1] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. [2] But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

MATTHEW 12 [10] And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. [11] And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? [12] How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

The Jews added over a hundred laws to the original sabbath commandment which made the 4th commandment more of a burden than a blessing. Jesus sets them straight in Matthew 12 on a couple of these added laws to His 4th commandment.

MATTHEW 23 [1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2] Saying, THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES sit in Moses' seat: [3] All therefore WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Jesus tells us to do what scribes and pharisees say to do. Ill bet one of the things they said we were to observe is Gods sabbath day.
 
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Actually, God's Sabbath rest remains from since He finished His works of original creation, which was long before David: "For we who have believed do enter that rest...although His works were finished since the creation of the world." -- (Hebrews 4:3).
God's Sabbath rest that remains is not a 24 hour day of rest, but is a perpetual, unceasing period of rest.

God's Sabbath rest began when God permanently ceased from His works of original creation, and His Sabbath rest continued unceasingly throughout the time of David, even to this very day. When God ceased from His works of original creation, it was a permanent ceasing, or permanent rest, because God never returned to work on His original creation.

When we enter God's Sabbath rest we permanently cease from our works just as God permanently ceased from His: "for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own works, just as God did from His." -- (Hebrews 4:9-10).

The seventh-day rest is not God's permanent Sabbath rest, but was only a 24 hour reminder of God's permanent Sabbath rest. The seventh-day rest was only a temporary shadow pointing forward to the permanent reality of God's Sabbath rest that is found only in Christ:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." -- (Colossians 2:16-17).

The reality of God's Sabbath rest is found only in Christ. This is why Christ commands us: "Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest…and you will find rest for your souls." -- (Matthew 11:28-29).

I think the Sabbath is also a rehearsal, as the Hebrew for 'sacred assemblies' suggests. It is a rehearsal for the Messianic banquet Jesus and the sages speak of, when people from the east and west will come and sit down with the patriarchs and celebrate sacred occasions with Jesus here on earth.
 
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Doveaman

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A careful reading of Romans 14 shows an emphasis on food, not sabbath days.

It does not make sense that Paul, in speaking of the observance of a day in connection to eating (v. 6), would suddenly imply that the Sabbath is irrelevant to believers. The Sabbath is not the subject; food is.

Romans 14:6 (NKJV) “He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.”

In verse 6 we see what appears to be a parallel, showing a link between the observance of days and eating. What I see Paul saying here is people are free to eat or not to eat on certain days, and that none should judge the other by these things. Whether you choose to eat or not to eat, it does not add to or take anything away from your salvation in Christ.

We find evidence elsewhere in the Scriptures of a belief in fasting on certain days:

Isaiah 58:5 (NKJV) “Is it a fast that I have chosen, A day for a man to afflict his soul? Is it to bow down his head like a bulrush, And to spread out sackcloth and ashes? Would you call this a fast, And an acceptable day to the LORD?”

Luke 18:12 (NKJV) “I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.”

Matthew 9:14 (NKJV) “Then the disciples of John came to Him, saying, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?"

Facts:
1. The emphasis of Romans 14 is on food.
2. There is no mention of the Sabbath in the chapter.
3. Other Scriptures show that certain days were designated for fasting.

Based on these facts, it makes sense to conclude that Romans 14:6 has nothing to do with the Sabbath, but is referring to days of fasting. People were free to eat or not to eat. It was their choice; they were not to be judged by these things, nor judge others by them.
I think you are reading your own assumptions into Romans 14.

It is clear that Romans 14 is addressing a dispute about eating 'unclean' foods:

"Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters.
One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables...I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died...Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking"


The Roman church was made of Jewish and Gentile Christians.

There were those who considered some foods unclean (likely Jews), while others ate everything (likely Gentiles).

There were those who observed special days to the Lord (likely Jews), while others observed everyday alike. (likely Gentiles).

Paul in his letter to the Roman church is addressing controversial matter regarding Jewish and Gentile customs, including Jewish law (Romans 7). Observing special days to the Lord, as in Romans 14, is a part of Paul's address.
 
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I think the Sabbath is also a rehearsal, as the Hebrew for 'sacred assemblies' suggests. It is a rehearsal for the Messianic banquet Jesus and the sages speak of, when people from the east and west will come and sit down with the patriarchs and celebrate sacred occasions with Jesus here on earth.
I think that Messianic banquet with Jesus has already begun through the Church, His sacred body. :)
 
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