Can You Create Faith?

com7fy8 · Jul 13, 2017

com7fy8 said:
There is "faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6). If we are believing in Jesus, in a worldly way, we are not in the soil of God's love. But if God changes the soil to love, then we see God very differently, because of how love has us seeing

Can we get ourselves, then, to have faith which works through God's own love? God changes how we are rooted.

jimmyjimmy said:
Thanks. Now where does it say that in the parable of the Sower?

It doesn't say this in the parable. But I think the imagery fits.

Hammster said:
I'm still not seeing where God changes the soil.

If you have soil which is not growing something, you treat the soil so it becomes productive. Also, we might consider the parable about the unfruitful tree > Luke 13:6-8 > the gardener tells the owner that he can put manure around the tree and see if this helps.

Also, I would say our character has to do with how we handle God's word. Our character could be our soil, then. We need how God changes our nature so we become able to receive His word and understand Him correctly. And our Apostle Paul says,

"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9)

We need how God changes our character, in any case, so we become able to believe and live the way God's word means. And if we are not by nature obedient, we can not change ourselves to become obedient >

"But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." (Romans 6:17)

We need to be the right way, the way His love has us becoming (1 John 4:17), so we can believe in the right way.

James talks about how even demonic beings can believe, but it does not do them any good > James 2:19. He says we need to believe and do works of faith > and the works he gives as examples in James chapter two, I see, are works of personal love for God and love for people.

So, for me, this all fits with our needing how God's love changes the soil . . . of our nature . . . so we do His word the way His love has us doing what He means.

jimmyjimmy · Jul 13, 2017

com7fy8 said:
It doesn't say this in the parable. But I think the imagery fits.

If you have soil which is not growing something, you treat the soil so it becomes productive. Also, we might consider the parable about the unfruitful tree > Luke 13:6-8 > the gardener tells the owner that he can put manure around the tree and see if this helps.

Also, I would say our character has to do with how we handle God's word. Our character could be our soil, then. We need how God changes our nature so we become able to receive His word and understand Him correctly. And our Apostle Paul says,

"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9)

We need how God changes our character, in any case, so we become able to believe and live the way God's word means. And if we are not by nature obedient, we can not change ourselves to become obedient >

"But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." (Romans 6:17)

We need to be the right way, the way His love has us becoming (1 John 4:17), so we can believe in the right way.

James talks about how even demonic beings can believe, but it does not do them any good > James 2:19. He says we need to believe and do works of faith > and the works he gives as examples in James chapter two, I see, are works of personal love for God and love for people.

So, for me, this all fits with our needing how God's love changes the soil . . . of our nature . . . so we do His word the way His love has us doing what He means.

Nothing above deals with the biblical text of the parable or the questions posed about it.

com7fy8 · Jul 13, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Nothing above deals with the biblical text of the parable or the questions posed about it.

But, Jimmy Jimmy, our Apostle Paul does say we need to be "rooted and grounded in love", in Ephesians 3:17 >

"that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love," (Ephesians 3:17)

So, for me, this fits with my offering that our soil needs to be God's love where we are "rooted and grounded". A person with a stony heart is not a person with the soil of God's love, for example. A person in thorny ground is "choked with cares, riches, and pleasures life," (Luke 8:14) which choke the person so he or she does not love.

So, I think it is relevant. If I understand correctly, one question is if God changes the soil. We need for Him to change us from our selfish soil to His love. So, yes we do need for God to change our soil, and He does this.

Also, you ask if we can create our own faith. Paul says we need "faith working through love," in Galatians 4:19. We can not create such faith; God does, in us. Plus, Jesus is "the author and finisher of our faith", we have in Hebrews 12:2. So, this also would support that we can not create our own faith which God desires.

Hammster · Jul 13, 2017

Wordkeeper said:
Quote
Historically this verse has been a minefield for people arguing over the definiton of faithfulness. A huge amount of stuff has been written trying to nail down precisely what each of the words in the sentence meant in an effort to get a precise definition of "faith" out of it. (Unfortunately this didn't work too well as a few of the words in the sentence have a variety of translation possibilities) But as a result of these efforts a lot of people are convinced that the Bible here defines faith as belief in things we can't see. As a result of theologians' sterling efforts over the centuries in mining the bible for sentences such as this one they have had great fun in formulating exactly what it means to have "faith". "Faith" had become an almost-magical word, set apart from everyday life.

That's one of the reasons, I suspect, that theologians have been relatively slow to pick up on the findings of the social sciences. The discovery of how the word "faithfulness" was actually used in the day-to-day life of the first century AD Mediterranean world has made hundreds of years of theological discussions worthless, and a lot of people don't like to let mere facts or evidence get in the way of their ideas and traditions. [Maybe I'm being too harsh, after all, the first book on the subject of linking Social Sciences with NT exegesis was only in 1981, and it was pretty badly written]

Theo Geek: The Patron-Client system and Hebrews 11:1

I guess that means you agree with my assessment.

Hammster · Jul 13, 2017

com7fy8 said:
But, Jimmy Jimmy, our Apostle Paul does say we need to be "rooted and grounded in love", in Ephesians 3:17 >

"that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love," (Ephesians 3:17)

So, for me, this fits with my offering that our soil needs to be God's love where we are "rooted and grounded". A person with a stony heart is not a person with the soil of God's love, for example. A person in thorny ground is "choked with cares, riches, and pleasures life," (Luke 8:14) which choke the person so he or she does not love.

So, I think it is relevant. If I understand correctly, one question is if God changes the soil. We need for Him to change us from our selfish soil to His love. So, yes we do need for God to change our soil, and He does this.

Also, you ask if we can create our own faith. Paul says we need "faith working through love," in Galatians 4:19. We can not create such faith; God does, in us. Plus, Jesus is "the author and finisher of our faith", we have in Hebrews 12:2. So, this also would support that we can not create our own faith which God desires.

Ephesians was written to believers.

com7fy8 · Jul 13, 2017

Hammster said:
Ephesians was written to believers.

Yes, but . . . in case this is relevant to what you mean, here >

Ephesians shows all which non-believers can have . . . if God changes their soil so they become "rooted and grounded in love" (in Ephesians 3:17).

Hammster · Jul 13, 2017

com7fy8 said:
Yes, but . . . in case this is relevant to what you mean, here >

Ephesians shows all which non-believers can have . . . if God changes their soil so they become "rooted and grounded in love" (in Ephesians 3:17).

Ephesians was written to believers, for believers.

Wordkeeper · Jul 13, 2017

Hammster said:
So faith is just an opinion of perceived value. It's not spiritual.

So faith is just an opinion of perceived spiritual value.

TheSeabass · Jul 13, 2017

Those in Acts 2 had no faith in Christ, they crucified Christ (Acts 2:36) yet after hearing the gospel (Romans 10:17) they formed faith within their hearts (Acts 2:37)

Exodus 4:1-9 God gave signs, thru Moses, for the people to see so they "may believe" (v5). If one can have belief only if God gives it to him then why didn't God just "zap" these people with belief instead of giving them signs where they may or may not choose to believe?

John 2:11 the purpose of Christ performing miracles was to induce a belief in men. "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did." John 2:23. The verse says many believed in His name, when God 'zapped' them with belief? No, they believed in His name when they saw the miracles. Belief being something men choose to have while others choose not to develop belief within their hearts.

bling · Jul 13, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
No. I'm simply asking about the origins of faith.

All mature adults have faith (trust) in something or someone including themselves, so the faith ability has been given to them all by God.

I often say to the atheist: “You have to have more “faith” to believe there is no God than to believe there is a God.”

Does it take more “faith” for the pagan to believe in something made of wood or stone over the unseen Creator of the universe?

There is nothing: noble, glorious, worthy about having a faith in a benevolent Creator, in fact the lowliest mature adult on earth can place his faith in a benevolent Creator, so it is a lowly activity (a humbling activity). It is child’s play and we must become as little children.

God has made it extremely easy for any mature adult to place his/her faith in God and away from placing their faith in other things, since faith in God results in being showered with unbelievable gifts, but again it is a humbling activity and humans do not like to be humbled. Also humility is need to accept pure charity and this humility from believing in God is enough to accept pure charity.

The person who places his/her faith in self and does some praise worthy activities, is esteemed over those who beg for charity and trust God’s charity, but God can only work with those who surrender to Him.

4x4toy · Jul 13, 2017

A woman becomes pregnant either willingly or not but the biological contract remains .
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God .. Hearing the Word becomes a spiritual contract where faith is born .. That faith becomes yours, faith is either acted on or not , faith becomes substance .. But there are also spiritual strongholds present developed in pride that abuse your faith .. That only raise the stakes and height of damnation since faith had been kindled but suppressed .. Whole new ball game ..

rockytopva · Jul 13, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
If you have no faith in Christ, can you somehow work up faith in Him?

Sounds like Calvinistic mind tricks on the way! ^_^

Tree of Life · Jul 13, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
If you have no faith in Christ, can you somehow work up faith in Him?

Certainly not.

Faith comes by hearing the voice of Jesus himself as he speaks through the preaching of sinful men. Only hearing from Jesus will cause faith to spring up in our hearts. But Jesus is so beautiful and wise that, upon hearing him truly, who could not place all their faith in him?

We can, however, put ourselves in a position to hear the voice of Jesus by going to hear the authorized preaching of God's word.

rockytopva · Jul 13, 2017

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:17

If you want to awaken faith then preach the word the way it is supposed to be preached!

com7fy8 · Jul 13, 2017

Hammster said:
Ephesians was written to believers, for believers.

But then don't we minister to unbelievers so they can join us?

Faith comes by hearing. This is because God uses us to reach to unbelievers. So, what is for us can be for them, right?

@jimmyjimmy And then, about if we can create our own faith > I believe this is a gift of God, but He uses us to reach to unbelievers to help them gain faith. And we need to be a healthy church so we are good examples for the ones we adopt into the family of God. So, what is for us can also be for the good of unbelievers who become adopted, right?

Hammster · Jul 13, 2017

com7fy8 said:
But then don't we minister to unbelievers so they can join us?

Faith comes by hearing. This is because God uses us to reach to unbelievers. So, what is for us can be for them, right?

@jimmyjimmy And then, about if we can create our own faith > I believe this is a gift of God, but He uses us to reach to unbelievers to help them gain faith. And we need to be a healthy church so we are good examples for the ones we adopt into the family of God. So, what is for us can also be for the good of unbelievers who become adopted, right?

Changing the subject doesn't make your argument valid.

DOKS · Jul 13, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
OK. I agree.

So how does one move from unbelief to belief if they can't create faith within themselves?

am a Christian and at one time in my early days of being a Christian, I experienced a great lack of faith in God. I decided to pray about that problem with three days fasting and I experienced tremendous faith in God a short while latter. it worked for me.

Blade · Jul 13, 2017

Hey JimmyJimmy.. So.. no faith in Christ.. yet.. from what you said seems has some faith..which the word would confirm " each has been given a measure of faith" Now work up faith in him? Him being the "you"? Yes.. for faith comes by hearing hearing by the word of God.. read the bible.

And we will NEVER please God unless we have faith.For without it.. we can NEVER please God. Again yes.. as the word says.. we each have faith. Few work it.. most do not.

bbbbbbb · Jul 13, 2017

Blade said:
Hey JimmyJimmy.. So.. no faith in Christ.. yet.. from what you said seems has some faith..which the word would confirm " each has been given a measure of faith" Now work up faith in him? Him being the "you"? Yes.. for faith comes by hearing hearing by the word of God.. read the bible.

And we will NEVER please God unless we have faith.For without it.. we can NEVER please God. Again yes.. as the word says.. we each have faith. Few work it.. most do not.

I would like a web tutorial on how to work faith. Can you give me a website?

jimmyjimmy · Jul 13, 2017

bling said:
All mature adults have faith (trust) in something or someone including themselves, so the faith ability has been given to them all by God.

I often say to the atheist: “You have to have more “faith” to believe there is no God than to believe there is a God.”

Does it take more “faith” for the pagan to believe in something made of wood or stone over the unseen Creator of the universe?

Finally, I can agree with you on something!

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