The Double Message of Eternal Security.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Did you even read Matthew 23? The smallest thing they did was sin. They were in their hearts wicked, purposely making themselves and putting themselves in a high place because of position and nothing to do with God.

They put very heavy conditions on the people and acted holy themselves and were hypocrites as they did not follow those laws themselves. Being a Pharisee was a good job with status and money. It is equivelant to a religious politician.

Read Mat 23 again. You totally missed everything I was saying.

But you are not getting to the root cause as to WHY the Pharisees were wicked. The answer is in John 8.

Jesus says,
"I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you."
(John 8:37).

See, the reason why the Pharisees were seeking to kill Jesus (i.e. to sin) was because God's Word was not in them (i.e. they did not obey God's Word).

Jesus also said to the Pharisees,
"...If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." (John 8:39).

Jesus said to them,
"He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:47).

Jesus said to them,
""Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin." (John 8:34) (NIV).

Yet, Jesus said unto the Jews that believed on him,
"...If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (John 8:31).


...
 
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stuart lawrence

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But you are not getting to the root cause as to WHY the Pharisees were wicked. The answer is in John 8.

Jesus says,
"I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you."
(John 8:37).

See, the reason why the Pharisees were seeking to kill Jesus (i.e. to sin) was because God's Word was not in them (i.e. they did not obey God's Word).

Jesus also said to the Pharisees,
"...If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." (John 8:39).

Jesus said to them,
"He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:47).

Jesus said to them,
""Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin." (John 8:34) (NIV).

Yet, Jesus said unto the Jews that believed on him,
"...If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (John 8:31).


...
How can you believe if you accept( or seek) praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God
John5:44

The teachers of the law and Pharisees sit in Moses seat, so you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, yet they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them
Matt23:2-4

Once again. The above CANNOT refer to their man made rules. For those man made rules the Pharisees did faultlessly practice:

Can you imagine those Pharisees. Reeling off the letter that kills and demanding nigh on perfect observance of it, whilst they themselves did not practice what they preached.
They showed no love, mercy or compassion to their neighbour by doing so, and they had neglected the love of God also.( Luke11:42)
They were therefore hypocrites, who failed to obey the two greatest comnandments on which the entire law hung.
They wanted the praise of men, rather than of God, for they gave the impression they were super holy people who practised what they preached. But as Jesus tells us, they didn't, it was just a sham, pure hypocrisy
Jesus reserved his harshest words for such people
 
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JLB777

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The question is what is "death" in this verse? It is not loss of salvation, it is the spiritual death that comes from reoccuring sin. The brother brings back a brother and corrects them as to the sin issue and brings them back from the spiritual death of sin. Not loss of salvation.

Notice the reward is to the one bringing back the sinner to righteous and correct standing with God.

Saving their soul from death is clear. Eternal death is what all mankind will face without a Savior.

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

The principle is clearly illustrated by Jesus.

A sheep who wanders and becomes lost, is just that; lost

Lost = a sinner in need of repentance, or otherwise face eternal death.

The sheep belongs to the Sheppard, but then becomes lost.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


Lost = sinner in need of repentance,. Dead to God

Found = reconciled to the Sheppard. Alive from being dead to God.



JLB
 
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JLB777

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My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand
John10:27&28


Yes the condition for eternal life is to believe.

Those who are Sheep, show that the believe by following Him.

What about those who believe for a while, then no longer believe?

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

Believe = Saved
  • lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe for a while = Saved for a while
  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, have returned to unbelieving.

  • Believers are promised eternal life.
  • The unbelieving are promised eternal death.

Both promises are true and from the Lord who can not lie.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:8



JLB
 
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JLB777

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I have given much scripture in this thread. However, if you just want to woodenly reel off the letter:

My sheep listen to my voice. I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish. No one can snatch them out of my hand
John10:27&28

I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned. He has crossed over from death to life
John5:24

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in accordance with his will
Eph1:11

I will have mercy on whom I have met y
And I will have compassion on whom I have compassion
It does not therefore depend on Nan's desire or effort, but on Gods mercy
Rom9:16

If we disown him
He must disown us
If we are faithless
He remains faithful
For he cannot disown himself
2tim2:12&13

For by one sacrifice he made FOREVER PERFECT, those who are BEING made Holy
Heb10:14.
If you are BEING made Holy you are not perfect in your flesh are you!

To him who is able, TO KEEP YOU FROM FALLING and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy
Jude24

Therefore no one will be declared righteous/ justified in his sight be observing the law, rather through the law we become conscious of sin
Rom3:20

Sin is the transgression of( or failing to observe) the law
1john3:4

But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages, to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself
Heb9:26

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us, but their going showed that none of them belonged to us
1john2:19

Don't just reel off scripture to oppose other scripture. Seek understanding that brings all scripture together!

And just being honest. I have spent a lot of years on these kinds of websites. I quickly discovered that those who like to use the word heretic seem unable to understand or explain the true message of grace/ justification. They seem to fill their heads with much issues that have little, if any bearing on their Christian walk, in respect of living an evermore holy life according to the gospel message.


Please don't just quote a lot of scriptures that doesn't address my post, or the points I have made from the scriptures.

None of these scriptures deals with the point I made from James 5:19-20, which involves a sheep that has become lost, and is likened to a sinner in need of repentance.


The principle is clearly illustrated by Jesus.

A sheep who wanders and becomes lost, is just that; lost

Lost = a sinner in need of repentance, or otherwise face eternal death.

The sheep belongs to the Sheppard, but then becomes lost.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays iton his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


Lost = sinner in need of repentance,. Dead to God

Found = reconciled to the Sheppard. Alive from being dead to God.



JLB
 
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stuart lawrence

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Yes the condition for eternal life is to believe.

Those who are Sheep, show that the believe by following Him.

What about those who believe for a while, then no longer believe?

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

Believe = Saved
  • lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe for a while = Saved for a while
  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, have returned to unbelieving.

  • Believers are promised eternal life.
  • The unbelieving are promised eternal death.

Both promises are true and from the Lord who can not lie.

7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:8



JLB
I really haven't a clue why you wrote all that. Three times I have told you the seed that fell in shallow ground referred to those who walked away when trials came, they were lost, they didn't have OSAS
 
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stuart lawrence

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Please don't just quote a lot of scriptures that doesn't address my post, or the points I have made from the scriptures.

None of these scriptures deals with the point I made from James 5:19-20, which involves a sheep that has become lost, and is likened to a sinner in need of repentance.


The principle is clearly illustrated by Jesus.

A sheep who wanders and becomes lost, is just that; lost

Lost = a sinner in need of repentance, or otherwise face eternal death.

The sheep belongs to the Sheppard, but then becomes lost.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays iton his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


Lost = sinner in need of repentance,. Dead to God

Found = reconciled to the Sheppard. Alive from being dead to God.



JLB
Oh I've much addressed your point, you just can't see it.
Anyone who james5:19&20 refers to is being faithless, correct?

If we are faithless
He remains faithful for he cannot disown himself
2tim2:13

Until you stop just quoting random scriptures and come to an acceptance of the whole message/ reading the Bible as a cohesive whole, you will only have at best a partial, and shallow understanding
 
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ToBeLoved

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But you are not getting to the root cause as to WHY the Pharisees were wicked. The answer is in John 8.

Jesus says,
"I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you."
(John 8:37).

See, the reason why the Pharisees were seeking to kill Jesus (i.e. to sin) was because God's Word was not in them (i.e. they did not obey God's Word).

Jesus also said to the Pharisees,
"...If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." (John 8:39).

Jesus said to them,
"He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:47).

Jesus said to them,
""Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin." (John 8:34) (NIV).

Yet, Jesus said unto the Jews that believed on him,
"...If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;" (John 8:31).


...
No. No. No.

Jesus SPECIFICALLY went after the Pharisee's because they are/were the teachers of God's Word to His chosen people. They were the ones selling doves in God's house. God entrusted His chosen people to them in the care of their souls. This is not ordinary at all.

The Pharisee's were suppose to be the example to them. It is not the ordinary believer, Jesus came hard for the Pharisee's in particular.

Read Matthew 23 slower

Jesus came hard for the religious leaders who were hypocrites.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Please don't just quote a lot of scriptures that doesn't address my post, or the points I have made from the scriptures.

None of these scriptures deals with the point I made from James 5:19-20, which involves a sheep that has become lost, and is likened to a sinner in need of repentance.


The principle is clearly illustrated by Jesus.

A sheep who wanders and becomes lost, is just that; lost

Lost = a sinner in need of repentance, or otherwise face eternal death.

The sheep belongs to the Sheppard, but then becomes lost.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays iton his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


Lost = sinner in need of repentance,. Dead to God

Found = reconciled to the Sheppard. Alive from being dead to God.



JLB
I'm going to respond to this one last time then leave it. This isn't a debate anyway. You appear unable to explain or respond to scriptures placed before you. You just keep quoting one scripture mainly, and ignore what you are shown from other scriptures. I'm afraid that is a trademark of someone who only has a superficial understanding of scripture.
Many different people go to church today, as they undoubtedly did in the Apostles day. Not everyone who goes has surrendered their life to Christ from their heart.
Those who truly have would come under the fourth example of the parable of the sower.
All of them have eternal life period. No one will ever snatch them out of Christ's hands.( John10:28) They have OSAS for God can make them stand( jude24)
He knows in their hearts they have been willing to surrender their lives to his Son, and he will Keep them safe from Satan and make them stand for he knows they truly love him and desire to follow after his son.
Do you understand what I am saying or not?

And the numerous scriptures I have quoted in this thread regarding people not being under a righteousness of observing the law, including the moral law, is appicable to all those in the fourth example of the parable of the sower.
Those in the second example cannot understand it, and those in the third example get hardened from understanding it by their constantly getting caught up in worldly issues.
And if you are honest, you don't understand how anyone can have righteousness apart from observing law that includes moral law do you.
So you haven't got an entire NT have you.
 
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ToBeLoved

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19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
We are all STILL sinners brother. So, I'm not sure how you think this proves your point.

Notice the words "wander" and "anyone AMONGST you".

Those are the telling phrases. Notice also "turns back". They were already saved, but are turning back to God in repentance. They have "wandered" away into a sin that they are not repenting for or able to overcome. A brother brings them back to God. Gets them back on a holy path.

This is not about salvation, because it uses 'wanders'.
 
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ToBeLoved

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A sheep who wanders and becomes lost, is just that; lost

Lost = a sinner in need of repentance, or otherwise face eternal death.

The sheep belongs to the Sheppard, but then becomes lost.


4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays iton his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

  • ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’


Lost = sinner in need of repentance,. Dead to God

Found = reconciled to the Sheppard. Alive from being dead to God.



JLB

A sheep is always one of God's Own. They are lost, but Jesus is the good shepherd who brings them back into reconciliation with God and the other sheep. It is clearly about sin, not salvation.

God gives us all free will. Christ would not go get them unless they were His Own to begin with.
 
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ToBeLoved

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But you are not getting to the root cause as to WHY the Pharisees were wicked. The answer is in John 8.

Jesus says,
"I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you."
(John 8:37).
Why you would look to John when Matthew 23 is SPECIFIC to the Pharisee's is beyond me. If you want to talk specifically about the Pharisee's, deal with the verses that are specific to them.

The issue was that the Pharisee's liked all the stuff that came with the high position (seat) at the tables. The money. The respect. All those non spiritual things.

Then Jesus get's into their hearts. Goes downhill from there. Read the verses and the direction of the text.

Matthew 23:2

2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

5Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteriesa wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

8“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

Seven Woes on the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees

13Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14]b

15Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

16Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

23Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’c

Jesus comes hard for the teachers and Pharisee's.
 
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JLB777

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A sheep is always one of God's Own. They are lost, but Jesus is the good shepherd who brings them back into reconciliation with God and the other sheep. It is clearly about sin, not salvation.

God gives us all free will. Christ would not go get them unless they were His Own to begin with.

A sheep that is His own, but becomes lost, in no longer reconciled to the Sheppard, as they are "lost".

It's clearly about the truth, of what Jesus taught.

If a person is lost, then they will face eternal death, unless they are "found".

People, Sheep who become lost, are not still somehow "saved".


A person is either lost or they are found, not both at the same time.


Judas Iscariot, was a sheep, who became lost.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12


By definition, when you lose something, you first possess it it and it is yours, for it to become "lost".


I have found over the years, that those who believe and teach false doctrine, all have this one thing in common: The must "redefine biblical words and their meanings to promote their unbiblical doctrine.


  • Lost = without God; Dead to God: sinner in need of repentance.
  • Found = reconciled to God; Alive to God; restored to God, in Christ

  • Lost Sheep:
I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

  • Lost Coin:
Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:10


  • Prodigal Son
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:32





JLB
 
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stuart lawrence

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A sheep that is His own, but becomes lost, in no longer reconciled to the Sheppard, as they are "lost".

It's clearly about the truth, of what Jesus taught.

If a person is lost, then they will face eternal death, unless they are "found".

People, Sheep who become lost, are not still somehow "saved".


A person is either lost or they are found, not both at the same time.


Judas Iscariot, was a sheep, who became lost.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:12


By definition, when you lose something, you first possess it it and it is yours, for it to become "lost".


I have found over the years, that those who believe and teach false doctrine, all have this one thing in common: The must "redefine biblical words and their meanings to promote their unbiblical doctrine.


  • Lost = without God; Dead to God: sinner in need of repentance.
  • Found = reconciled to God; Alive to God; restored to God, in Christ

  • Lost Sheep:
I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

  • Lost Coin:
Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:10


  • Prodigal Son
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:32





JLB
Judas was once saved?
Are you Antinomian? He was a habitual thief. He constantly broke one of the TC under the OC.
 
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ToBeLoved

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A sheep that is His own, but becomes lost, in no longer reconciled to the Sheppard, as they are "lost".
That's not what God's Word says. It says the shepherd goes out and finds the one LOST SHEEP. Notice even though they are lost, they are still a sheep.

That annialate's your theory that the sheep loses their salvation. If they are not God's they are not sheep.
 
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JLB777

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That's not what God's Word says. It says the shepherd goes out and finds the one LOST SHEEP. Notice even though they are lost, they are still a sheep.

That annialate's your theory that the sheep loses their salvation. If they are not God's they are not sheep.

No that validates my position, and the scriptures I used.

If the sheep wasn't lost, the why did he go out and look.

The condition of lost shows that a sheep can become lost, which means as a sinner in need of repentance.

If Jesus didn't go out and turn the sheep back, then the sheep would be lost.


Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.


  • Lost Sheep:
I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

  • Lost Coin:
Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:10


  • Prodigal Son
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:32


Judas Iscariot was a sheep that became lost, and never returned to the Sheppard, in which he died in a lost condition.


The Principle is:

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


  • Brethren; James is writing to the Church and addressing brethren.
  • if anyone among you wanders from the truth; again anyone among you refers to Christian brothers.
  • wanders from the truth; Jesus Christ is the truth. The Gospel of the kingdom.
  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;
The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.


Jesus taught the same thing:

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.


JLB
 
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JLB777

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Judas was once saved?
Are you Antinomian? He was a habitual thief. He constantly broke one of the TC under the OC.


Judas heard His Voice, and followed Jesus Christ, as a faithful disciple for 3 1/2 years, was then promoted to an Apostle, in which he was sent out as a sheep among wolves to preach the Gospel to the lost sheep of Israel, being empowered to heal the sick, cast out devil, raise the dead and cleanse the lepers.

And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.
Matthew 10:1-8

  • But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 10:6
At this point, Judas was not yet lost.


He was also appointed to sit on one of the twelve thrones with the others and reign with Jesus in the millennium.

  • Judas was appointed to inherit eternal life.

28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
Matthew 19:28-29

  • you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

  1. Judas believed for a while, then fell by transgression, having become a traitor.
  2. A traitor, by definition belongs to a kingdom, then becomes a traitor.
  3. Someone who was never apart of a kingdom, may be an enemy, but to be a traitor they have to be a part of that kingdom, then defect and become a traitor.

12 Now it came to pass in those days that He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. 13 And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles: 14 Simon, whom He also named Peter, and Andrew his brother; James and John; Philip and Bartholomew; 15 Matthew and Thomas; James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called the Zealot; 16 Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor.
Luke 6:12-15


Saul was an enemy of the Gospel, then became Paul, an Apostle of the Lord.

Judas was an Apostle of the Lord, then became a traitor.


  • Becomes means they were the one thing, then changed and became the other.


JLB
 
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ToBeLoved

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No that validates my position, and the scriptures I used.

If the sheep wasn't lost, the why did he go out and look.

The condition of lost shows that a sheep can become lost, which means as a sinner in need of repentance.

If Jesus didn't go out and turn the sheep back, then the sheep would be lost.


Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.


  • Lost Sheep:
I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

  • Lost Coin:
Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Luke 15:10


  • Prodigal Son
It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’” Luke 15:32


Judas Iscariot was a sheep that became lost, and never returned to the Sheppard, in which he died in a lost condition.


The Principle is:

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.


19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20


  • Brethren; James is writing to the Church and addressing brethren.
  • if anyone among you wanders from the truth; again anyone among you refers to Christian brothers.
  • wanders from the truth; Jesus Christ is the truth. The Gospel of the kingdom.
  • let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death;
The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.


Jesus taught the same thing:

Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.


JLB
You said the lost sheep lost their salvation.

Not true. They would not still be a sheep if their salvation was lost.
 
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