Sin is Lawlessness

bugkiller said:

I do not know where you attend or fellowship. Where I attend the conversations are about anything except religious matters.

bugkiller

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pescador said:

You said, "[Christians] can then repent of their sins and become justified/righteous again. They can then sin again and fall away again. They can then repent and become righteous again.

This is unscriptural nonsense. We are not playing some game with God. He has adopted us into his family for eternity; he will not throw us out because of mistakes that we, as imperfect people, are bound to make. We are dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Of course we should be watchful so that the devil cannot trick us into doing something that we are dead to: sinning. The Holy Spirit that God has given us is more powerful than the devil so we are not fooled if we listen to our guide.

Also, stop taking a couple of verses from a gospel that was written to Gentile unbelievers and applying it to Christians. We operate under an entirely different set of conditions! We are indeed waiting for the Messiah to come for us, but with joy not with fear.

It's time to put the Old Covenant to rest, isn't it?

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pescador said:

This is an extreme distortion of Scripture. Have you even read verse 7 of what you quoted? He is telling Christians not to associate with them (the sons of disobedience). Clearly Christians and the sons of disobedience are separate groups.

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Paul then follows this section with, "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)".

Stop putting burdens on God-fearing Christians that love the Lord that are clearly meant for other people. God will surely judge people by their attitudes toward others, particularly other Christians. When he told us to love our neighbor, he meant it. Scaring people is the exact opposite.

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1stcenturylady said:

There really shouldn't be such backsliding if you are filled with the Spirit. At least, not so many. It is not sin and repent, sin and repent, but don't sin in the first place, because you don't have to IF you have the Holy Spirit leading you.

1 John 1:7New King James Version (NKJV)

7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

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bugkiller said:

Is religion insane and for the insane, or what? I used to be in its trap. Thank God for full deliverance. And was I ever stubborn about the issue.

bugkiller

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bugkiller said:

This is not a reference to Christians.

bugkiller

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Jan001 said:

I agree with you.

Many Christians are filled with zeal at first and so they obey God's commandments at first, but then later when temptations come to them, they give in to the temptations and thereby they fall away from the faith through their disobedience. Many of these people do not ever repent and so they will not be approved to inherit eternal life.

Some Christians struggle with addictions to certain sins. They want to overcome these sins and so they do repent of them each time they do them. With the help of God's Grace/Holy Spirit, most of these people will eventually be able to overcome these sins if they do not despair/give up. God knows the intentions of each person's heart and all their struggles and He is both a just God and a merciful God.

1 Corinthians 10:13
No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. rsv​

Matthew 13:18-23
Hear then the parable of the sower. 19 When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart; this is what was sown along the path. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is he who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the delight in riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is he who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit, and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.” rsv
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Good Advice:

2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature. 5 For this very reason make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these things is blind and shortsighted and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; 11 so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. rsv






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Jan001 said:

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Evil Christians are the disobedient sons of God. Unrepentant evil Christians/sons are disinherited from God's family and so they will not inherit eternal life.

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Jan001 said:

The Old Covenant did not redeem any person from Adam's sin. That is why Abraham and Lazarus were not in heaven at the time of Jesus' ministry. They were in Hades awaiting the death of Jesus Christ so that they could enter into heaven to be with God.

Jesus gives each one of us just one get-out-of-hell-free card and that is when we first believe and are baptized.

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. rsv​

From then on, "We will reap whatever we have sown."

Galatians 6:7-8
Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. rsv

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed. rsv

Ephesians 5:5-8
Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not associate with them, 8 for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light rsv

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.” rsv

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. rsv

1 Corinthians 9:25-27
Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; 27 but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. rsv​

John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment. rsv

Acts 24:14-16
But this I admit to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the law or written in the prophets, 15 having a hope in God which these themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. 16 So I always take pains to have a clear conscience toward God and toward men. rsv​

Jesus Christ did not come to earth to die an excruciating death so that we can sin without any personal consequences.

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1stcenturylady said:

Do you have a scripture for this part of what you just wrote?

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pescador said:

1) Abraham was in heaven at the time of Jesus' ministry. Matthew wrote Jesus' words: "Now as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living!”

2) I have heard over and over from people who don't understand the Holy Spirit that "we can sin without any personal consequences". While this happens to be true -- Jesus died as a sacrifice for all sin -- this is also true: "I am dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus". If you're still struggling with sin you don't understand what being in Christ means. You're being tempted by Satan; "Resist the devil and he will flee from you." Pay attention to the Holy Spirit (only) that the Lord gave you.

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Jan001 said:

A person's spirit never dies and that is why God is the God of the living, including Abraham and Lazarus who were in Hades, the abode of all the dead before the death of Jesus Christ.

No human being was in the third heaven with God before Jesus died on the cross. Adam's sin prevented all people, with no exceptions, from entering into the third heaven to be with God.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man. rsv​

Ephesians 4:8-10
Therefore it is said,
“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”
9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) rsv
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After His death, Jesus Christ personally led into heaven the righteous captives who were all waiting in Hades for Him to free them.

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Jan001 said:

How does a person become a son of God? By becoming a Christian.

Galatians 3:26
for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. rsv

Hebrews 12:7
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? rsv

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How does a son of God become a disobedient son? There are many ways to become a disobedient son of God. I will quote a few of them for you.

A son becomes a disobedient son by becoming a fornicator, adulterer, or impure man or one who is covetous. He also becomes a son of disobedience by refusing to take care of his relatives, or by refusing to forgive those who harm him.

Ephesians 5:5-8
Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not associate with them, 8 for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light rsv

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. rsv

Matthew 6:15
but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. rsv

1 Corinthians 6:8-10
But you yourselves wrong and defraud, and that even your own brethren.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. rsv

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pescador said:

The Bible does not say that Jesus Christ personally led into heaven the righteous captives who were all waiting in Hades. It says (in Ephesians), “When he ascended on high he captured captives; he gave gifts to men.” (NET) Paul is quoting from Psalm 68: "You ascend on high, you have taken many captives. You receive tribute from men, including even sinful rebels."

In Paul's letter and in the psalm, it clearly says that he took captives. That sure doesn't sound like he was leading the faithful dead to heaven. It also makes more sense that the captives would pay him tribute, rather than his giving gifts to them. (Why should he?)

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1stcenturylady said:

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Thanks.

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Jan001 said:

The faithful dead (their living spirits) were captives in Hades until Jesus died on the cross. Until then, no person could approach God's throne in heaven because of Adam's sin. Adam and Eve were also forced to leave the garden of Eden because of their sin. Genesis 3:24

Jesus Christ did not ascend into heaven until after He descended into Hades and set the righteous captives free. He then escorted them into heaven and so the crown of life (eternal life in heaven) was their just reward for their being faithful to God until they died. Revelation 2:10

Ephesians 4:8-10
Therefore it is said,
“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”
9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? [Hades] 10 He who descended [into Hades] is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) rsv

Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, rsv

Revelation 5:3
And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it, rsv
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We reap what we sow. The righteous person will also receive a reward for each and every good work that he had done while he was on the earth.

1 Corinthians 3:12-14
Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. rsv

2 Corinthians 9:5-7
So I thought it necessary to urge the brethren to go on to you before me, and arrange in advance for this gift you have promised, so that it may be ready not as an exaction but as a willing gift. 6 The point is this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. rsv

Matthew 10:42
And whoever gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.” rsv

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil [rewards], according to what he has done in the body. rsv​

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Jan001 said:

The faithful dead (their living spirits) were captives in Hades until Jesus died on the cross. Until then, no person could approach God's throne in heaven because of Adam's sin. Adam and Eve were also forced to leave the garden of Eden because of their sin. Genesis 3:24

Jesus Christ did not ascend into heaven until after He descended into Hades and set the righteous captives free. He then escorted them into heaven and so the crown of life (eternal life in heaven) was their just reward for their being faithful to God until they died. Revelation 2:10

Ephesians 4:8-10
Therefore it is said,
“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”
9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? [Hades] 10 He who descended [into Hades] is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) rsv

Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, rsv

Revelation 5:3
And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it, rsv
​

We reap what we sow. The righteous person will also receive a reward for each and every good work that he had done while he was on the earth.

1 Corinthians 3:12-14
Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. rsv

2 Corinthians 9:5-7
So I thought it necessary to urge the brethren to go on to you before me, and arrange in advance for this gift you have promised, so that it may be ready not as an exaction but as a willing gift. 6 The point is this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. rsv

Matthew 10:42
And whoever gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.” rsv

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil [rewards], according to what he has done in the body. rsv​

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ToBeLoved said:

I don't think those captives Jesus went to were righteous. It says they were from the time of Noah, which makes me think they were/are the sons of mankind offspring that mated with women.

He went to preach the gospel to them.

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1stcenturylady said:

Have you ever wondered what for? It's not like they have any chance of being saved.

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