Salvation for the Dead

Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
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There's no evidence UR believers live any less of a godly life than Damnationists. Belief in God's love as it really is, rather than the milk carton expiry date type of love of Damnationists, could motivate people to want to serve Him more than those who do it for endless fire insurance & out of terror.....
You would be right if I had said that is how Unis act but alas I did not say that. I have found it most helpful to actually read a post before trying to respond to it.
 
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ClementofA

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You would be right if I had said that is how Unis act but alas I did not say that. I have found it most helpful to actually read a post before trying to respond to it.

Actually the way the post is written is rather strange & unclear as to its meaning. It could use some improvements like punctuation, better spelling, etc.

I responded as to how i thought other readers would probably take it.

Scholar's Corner: The Center for Bible studies in Christian Universalism
 
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ClementofA

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The author of Hebrews uses the word ἅπαξ/apax eight (8) times and never uses it to mean anything but "once and only once." Hebrews 6:4, Hebrews 9:7, Hebrews 9:26-28,Hebrews 10:3, Hebrews 12:26-27.

Note in Heb. 9:26-28 ἅπαξ/apax occurs once in each vs. In vss, 26 and 28 it absolutely means "once and only once." Since 7 of the occurrences mean "once and only once" it is not likely that the author would use the same word in vs. 27 with a different meaning than vss. 26 and 28.

We know Christ's death "once" for all is *once & only exactly once, no more & no less*, because Scripture explicitly says so.

The same is not said reagrding death. In fact Scripture denies the same re death spoken of in Heb.9:27. For Scripture reveals there are those who will not die even once & implies there are those who will die at least a second time.

There are those who will never die, not even once:

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 says: “For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

There are others who died, were resurrected back to mortality & died a second time. For example, Lazarus.

There is also the second death spoken of in the book of Revelation.

If almost all men see death only once, then there will be very few who experience the second death in Revelation.

BTW, Hebrews 9 verse 26 says Christ appeared once to do away with sin. Verse 28 says He will appear a second time.

It is common in languages that a word used more than once in near context often does not have the exact same meaning, or has a different nuance of meaning, or a widely different meaning, sometimes even the opposite meaning.

Paul says "once was i stoned" (2 Cor.11:25). Does that mean he could never be stoned again or stoned twice? Obviously not.

How sad it is that so many Damnationists err in claiming Hebrews 9:27 proves there is no salvation after death.

Is Lazarus the norm for all mankind?


Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
As we can see in Rom 3:23 and Heb 9:27, all, 100%, of mankind has sinned or will sin, all, 100%, of mankind will die and face judgment.


Heb.9:27 says it is appointed to men once to die. Does that deny men can die twice? No. Does it say "only" once? No. If New England is appointed to play the Buffalo Bills twice, does that deny they won't meet again in the playoffs? No. How many times did those raised before the general resurrections die?"

I think, in light of the Rapture theory, many Christians would disagree with your statement that "100%, of mankind will die and face judgment". Not only that, but Hebrews 9:27 does not say men are "only" going to die once. Lazarus, for one, is a Biblical example of one who died twice & the book of Revelation speaks of the "second death"."


http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html
 
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Terrihoop

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I can see this going down a huge spiral. There are numerous scriptures and they have been posted in this forum many times and those that state that Christ Himself said that we are saved by faith, not by works, so that nobody can brag about saving themselves.

Works is the outward proof of existing salvation..... not the acts that accomplish the salvation
Agree but Salvation is a gift. If mandatory to do works Salvation is no longer free and it is mandatory you go to hell. When would it stop could be ill so no works for two months and you die. Like Islam we will NEVER know if we did good enough works to be saved. Just thought. TTYL
 
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notforgotten

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Agree but Salvation is a gift. If mandatory to do works Salvation is no longer free and it is mandatory you go to hell. When would it stop could be ill so no works for two months and you die. Like Islam we will NEVER know if we did good enough works to be saved. Just thought. TTYL
Granted, salvation is a gift to the believer. And good works are not required of him or her in their lifetimes. But this thread is about the unfaithful dead in hell who did not believe. Who require the offering up of good works to Christ for the atonement of their sins.

Jesus holds the keys to death and Hades.

Revelations 1:18. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Jesus received these keys upon the completion of His sacrificial atonement for mankind. He descended into hell to deliver and salvage the souls of the faithful there.

John 5:25. Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Atonement for the sins of the dead goes back as far as the old testament.

2 Maccabees 12:46. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

Even today, the Catholic Church intercedes for those in purgatory and asks God to reach into the treasury of merits (good works) left by Christ and the saints for the remission of temporal punishment do to sin.

So, good works are being offered to Jesus in lieu of punishment.

There is hope in Christ in all places, for all people, at all times. The redemptive work of Christ must be complete.

We can indeed offer up our own good works to Christ as atonement for the sins of the unfaithful dead in hell. Otherwise, the redemptive work of Christ would not be complete and we would fall short of the glory of God.

1 Corinthians 15:19. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
 
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Terrihoop

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Granted, salvation is a gift to the believer. And good works are not required of him or her in their lifetimes. But this thread is about the unfaithful dead in hell who did not believe. Who require the offering up of good works to Christ for the atonement of their sins.

Jesus holds the keys to death and Hades.

Revelations 1:18. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Jesus received these keys upon the completion of His sacrificial atonement for mankind. He descended into hell to deliver and salvage the souls of the faithful there.

John 5:25. Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Atonement for the sins of the dead goes back as far as the old testament.

2 Maccabees 12:46. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.

Even today, the Catholic Church intercedes for those in purgatory and asks God to reach into the treasury of merits (good works) left by Christ and the saints for the remission of temporal punishment do to sin.

So, good works are being offered to Jesus in lieu of punishment.

There is hope in Christ in all places, for all people, at all times. The redemptive work of Christ must be complete.

We can indeed offer up our own good works to Christ as atonement for the sins of the unfaithful dead in hell. Otherwise, the redemptive work of Christ would not be complete and we would fall short of the glory of God.

1 Corinthians 15:19. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
 
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Terrihoop

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Thanks for the quick response and the clarification. Was looking at it from a Christians perspective and so many nowadays seem to think do one little thing wrong and you are condemned to hell for all eternity. Apologoze for wasting your time. Maybe next time I post it will have more validity. LOL TTYL
 
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