Ten Contradictions That Christians Can't Stop Making.

Steve Petersen · Jul 11, 2017

1. Explaining what god is or wants, then saying humans cannot understand god.

2. Claiming that god loves us all, then rationalizing human suffering.

3. Pretending that free will and a divine plan are not mutually exclusive.

4. Behaving hatefully, then saying “god bless.”

5. Declaring god as the source of objective morality, then interpreting scripture.

6. Labeling god as omnipotent, then blaming evil on the devil.

7. Seizing upon minuscule inconsistencies in highly specialized scientific disciplines as a failure of science to explain the universe while accepting supernatural explanations for which there is no evidence.

8. Subscribing to religion, then labeling the religious beliefs of others as “crazy.”

9. Accusing atheists of cherry-picking scripture to make it look bad.

10. Claiming membership in one of thousands of sects of religion as authority for telling non-believers why our interpretation of religion is wrong.

Ten Contradictions Theists Just Can’t Stop Making

Foxfyre · Jul 11, 2017

Not a bad list though I think you left out half of the observation in Number 9.

But the most interesting contradiction to me is why would a non-believer start such a thread? What attracts them to a forum like this or prompts them to spend so much time in one?

Halbhh · Jul 11, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
1. Explaining what god is or wants, then saying humans cannot understand god.

2. Claiming that god loves us all, then rationalizing human suffering.

3. Pretending that free will and a divine plan are not mutually exclusive.

4. Behaving hatefully, then saying “god bless.”

5. Declaring god as the source of objective morality, then interpreting scripture.

6. Labeling god as omnipotent, then blaming evil on the devil.

7. Seizing upon minuscule inconsistencies in highly specialized scientific disciplines as a failure of science to explain the universe while accepting supernatural explanations for which there is no evidence.

8. Subscribing to religion, then labeling the religious beliefs of others as “crazy.”

9. Accusing atheists of cherry-picking scripture to make it look bad.

10. Claiming membership in one of thousands of sects of religion as authority for telling non-believers why our interpretation of religion is wrong.

Ten Contradictions Theists Just Can’t Stop Making

Hmmmm.....

About #1, I want a few certain things at the moment, and I can tell you. For instance, I'd really like a nice sweet apple.

If I tell you things I want, will you then "understand" me in all ways?

Well, no.

You'd definitely know some things I said and want, and would not "understand" me in all ways.

Often contradictions get unraveled with a bit of closer looking.

A wise man might reasonably admit he does not even understand his own wife in every way....much less God, who has existed vastly longer than you or me. Yet we know for sure that God wants us to "love your neighbor as yourself".

2. is somewhat prejudicially worded. I explain why there is suffering -- because we are in mortal bodies in nature, and have true free will -- I don't "rationalize" suffering. heh heh Big difference there.

Is there one in particular though that is really important to you?

Steve Petersen · Jul 11, 2017

Halbhh said:
Is there one in particular though that is really important to you?

Nope.

Rajni · Jul 11, 2017

Foxfyre said:
But the most interesting contradiction to me is why would a non-believer start such a thread? What attracts them to a forum like this or prompts them to spend so much time in one?

Unless I'm missing something, he's Non-Denominational, not non-believing.

Ygrene Imref · Jul 11, 2017

Foxfyre said:
Not a bad list though I think you left out half of the observation in Number 9.

But the most interesting contradiction to me is why would a non-believer start such a thread? What attracts them to a forum like this or prompts them to spend so much time in one?

The OP is non-denominational, but I can as a former atheist/later agnostic is that these forums provide insight and different perspectives on the very questions in the OP.

A lot of atheists want to be proven wrong, and look for arguments that can slowly bring them toward a theistic view.

Halbhh · Jul 11, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
1. Explaining what god is or wants, then saying humans cannot understand god.

2. Claiming that god loves us all, then rationalizing human suffering.

3. Pretending that free will and a divine plan are not mutually exclusive.

4. Behaving hatefully, then saying “god bless.”

5. Declaring god as the source of objective morality, then interpreting scripture.

6. Labeling god as omnipotent, then blaming evil on the devil.

7. Seizing upon minuscule inconsistencies in highly specialized scientific disciplines as a failure of science to explain the universe while accepting supernatural explanations for which there is no evidence.

8. Subscribing to religion, then labeling the religious beliefs of others as “crazy.”

9. Accusing atheists of cherry-picking scripture to make it look bad.

10. Claiming membership in one of thousands of sects of religion as authority for telling non-believers why our interpretation of religion is wrong.

Ten Contradictions Theists Just Can’t Stop Making

6 is always of interest, the old question -- Why is there evil?

Evil is simply the opposite of the golden rule done with understanding = intentionally doing to others what you would not want them to do to you.

If there is freedom of action and intelligence and numerous people, then 'evil' can happen, and eventually would just by natural competition.

To prevent evil, either there must be no freedom of action, or no intelligence, or no interaction between persons.

We've have to be in a jail or forcibly constrained or be puppets or robots or be isolated, to prevent evil.

The most interesting question isn't even why is there evil -- animals kill and eat each other, it's merely nature.

The most interesting question is a more subtle one -- Why is there any good?

Foxfyre · Jul 11, 2017

RayJeena said:
Unless I'm missing something, he's Non-Denominational, not non-believing.

From #10 on this list:
"10. Claiming membership in one of thousands of sects of religion as authority for telling non-believers why our interpretation of religion is wrong.

Foxfyre · Jul 11, 2017

RayJeena said:
Unless I'm missing something, he's Non-Denominational, not non-believing.

I could have misread that other than what he intended. But he hasn't corrected me.

Rajni · Jul 11, 2017

Foxfyre said:
From #10 on this list:
"10. Claiming membership in one of thousands of sects of religion as authority for telling non-believers why our interpretation of religion is wrong.

He's listed as non-denominational. Not non-believing.
It's against forum rules to suggest that someone isn't a Christian if they indicate that they are.

Foxfyre · Jul 11, 2017

Ygrene Imref said:
The OP is non-denominational, but I can as a former atheist/later agnostic is that these forums provide insight and different perspectives on the very questions in the OP.

A lot of atheists want to be proven wrong, and look for arguments that can slowly bring them toward a theistic view.

You may be right. I believe God is always nudging folks and that could explain why agnostics and self proclaimed Atheists flock to these kinds of forums and threads in droves.

Foxfyre · Jul 11, 2017

RayJeena said:
He's listed as non-denominational. Not non-believing.
It's against forum rules to suggest that someone isn't a Christian if they indicate that they are.

I honestly thought that is what he was claiming but I wasn't suggesting he wasn't Christian in my comment. I was just asking a question.

Cute Tink · Jul 11, 2017

Foxfyre said:
From #10 on this list:
"10. Claiming membership in one of thousands of sects of religion as authority for telling non-believers why our interpretation of religion is wrong.

Unless he's the author of the article, he didn't write that statement. He's merely sharing it.

Foxfyre · Jul 11, 2017

Cute Tink said:
Unless he's the author of the article, he didn't write that statement. He's merely sharing it.

Good point. My apologies to @Steve Peterson for misconstruing the list as his. I see now that it was not intended as such and thanks to @RayJeena and Cute Tink for correcting me on that.

My question is therefore amended and redirected to the author of the list, i.e. "But the most interesting contradiction to me is why would a non-believer make such a list? What attracts them to the topic or prompts them to spend so much time in one?

Evenso the list itself does raise some provocative questions that I think it is good for Christians to think about.

Halbhh · Jul 11, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
1. Explaining what god is or wants, then saying humans cannot understand god.

2. Claiming that god loves us all, then rationalizing human suffering.

3. Pretending that free will and a divine plan are not mutually exclusive.

4. Behaving hatefully, then saying “god bless.”

5. Declaring god as the source of objective morality, then interpreting scripture.

6. Labeling god as omnipotent, then blaming evil on the devil.

7. Seizing upon minuscule inconsistencies in highly specialized scientific disciplines as a failure of science to explain the universe while accepting supernatural explanations for which there is no evidence.

8. Subscribing to religion, then labeling the religious beliefs of others as “crazy.”

9. Accusing atheists of cherry-picking scripture to make it look bad.

10. Claiming membership in one of thousands of sects of religion as authority for telling non-believers why our interpretation of religion is wrong.

Ten Contradictions Theists Just Can’t Stop Making

#7 is a practice of a tiny sliver of people. And there are good counterexamples of those who talk about physics and cosmology and God together as all fitting hand in glove, and some I've met that do so with knowledge (my degree is in physics, and cosmology has been an interest for decades).

Halbhh · Jul 11, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
1. Explaining what god is or wants, then saying humans cannot understand god.

2. Claiming that god loves us all, then rationalizing human suffering.

3. Pretending that free will and a divine plan are not mutually exclusive.

4. Behaving hatefully, then saying “god bless.”

5. Declaring god as the source of objective morality, then interpreting scripture.

6. Labeling god as omnipotent, then blaming evil on the devil.

7. Seizing upon minuscule inconsistencies in highly specialized scientific disciplines as a failure of science to explain the universe while accepting supernatural explanations for which there is no evidence.

8. Subscribing to religion, then labeling the religious beliefs of others as “crazy.”

9. Accusing atheists of cherry-picking scripture to make it look bad.

10. Claiming membership in one of thousands of sects of religion as authority for telling non-believers why our interpretation of religion is wrong.

Ten Contradictions Theists Just Can’t Stop Making

About #9, while I haven't made a blanket statement on it, that's simply repeatedly observed as factual, as I myself have answered over 400 such slanted atheist questions relying on misrepresenting or failing to have any context.

KWCrazy · Jul 11, 2017

RayJeena said:
Unless I'm missing something, he's Non-Denominational, not non-believing.

If you talk about Christians as people other than yourself then you are saying you're not Christian. If I complain about Jews it's clear I'm not a Jew. If I talk about misconceptions Muslims have it's clear I'm not a Muslim. Why would we identify anyone as a Christian who doesn't identify themselves as Christian? If he wants to stand with the Christians, let him stand with us. If he wishes to remain apart, let him remain apart from us.

Rajni · Jul 11, 2017

KWCrazy said:
If you talk about Christians as people other than yourself then you are saying you're not Christian. If I complain about Jews it's clear I'm not a Jew. If I talk about misconceptions Muslims have it's clear I'm not a Muslim.

Not necessarily.

com7fy8 · Jul 11, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
1. Explaining what god is or wants, then saying humans cannot understand god.

I can tell you what you want, but this does not guarantee you understand me

The Bible does say God's ways are "past finding out", in Romans 11:33. Well, if you have someone in a deep love relationship, can you figure out everything; don't you keep discovering more about a person, especially a loving person, since God's love keeps taking us to more and better? Even if you can't figure out His love or one of His people, you can enjoy one another and enjoy how things grow and go.

You can't figure out how a plant grows, but there are things we can do to help the plant to grow.

And in God's love we are in His ways which we can not figure out. But these ways succeed in us so we do well with God and in sharing with one another as His family. You can enjoy all which is good, even if you can't figure it all out

I would say I have gotten into better and deeper love with my lady friend, but I did not produce this. I can't figure it out or know how to make it happen, but just thank God

But the Bible does tell us some things which can help us to do well with God and with one another . . . though we can't explain it all.

com7fy8 · Jul 11, 2017

Steve Petersen said:
2. Claiming that god loves us all, then rationalizing human suffering.

Who is contradicting . . . God who loves us, or the humans who are being contrary to how He loves us?

Jesus is very plain how He loves any and all people. And Jesus on the cross suffered like He did and died with hope for any evil person, at all. But our own sin cancels us out from how we could benefit from God's love for us.

Also . . . as part of this > we say God so loves us "unconditionally", but then we keep on sinning so we miss out on how we could benefit from His love. Plus, God loving us unconditionally is our example which is required of us!!!

"Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:1-2)

So, if we do not live in God's love, we are in Satan's realm where the death and suffering are controlling people. And then we blame God; blaming is what is happening in Satan's kingdom, of his "spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2)

If God were to remove all the physical suffering, still humans would have their own nature. And we might consider how Satan has been right in the presence of Jesus, yet Satan did not appreciate Jesus and love and honor Jesus. So, in order to benefit from how God loves us, we need first how He changes us so we can benefit > Hebrews 12:4-11 < what a number of people are doing is to make up ways to make themselves the judges of God, and so they decoy their attention away from seeking our Father for His correction which makes us able to share with God and one another in His own love.

He is loving wrong people, by resisting them so they do not get into much worse trouble >

"God resists the proud,
.But gives grace to the humble."
. . . . . . (in James 4:6 and in 1 Peter 5:5)

So, it is wise to answer to God, rather than try to make God answer to us! Thank Him for the good He is doing, and trust Him to have us doing the good which He will honor.

But, of course, this does not really answer the issue which people have given. So, I will try. God is so greatly good, but evil does exist and this is simply a reality. But God is doing so much good. And He does personally love and care for each and every person. Jesus suffered and died like He did, on the cross, with hope for any person, at all. Plus, Jesus calls to "all" >

"'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.'" (Matthew 11:28-30)

So - - - in spite of all the evil and people's issues . . . this is what Jesus has done and said. So, Jesus is not conceited, only looking down on us and feeling so superior!!!!!!! So, it is not wise to think we are too good or too smart for Jesus

So, God is the One who is good; so I need to trust Him about the evil. And He is able to make us succeed in doing good which will have a lasting result.

He does have control of the evil. It is going somewhere away from where His children will be. But we are now finding out how His love makes us strong so evil now can't get the better of us. So, evil has the problem, not us

It is going to the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone. So, do not be a sewer bucket of the nasty and toxic filth of Satan's unforgiveness and negativity and worry and arguing and complaining and bitterness and nasty anger and bad mouthing and malice and dominating and dictatorial lusts for pleasure and revenge and control. Because we can go where the stuff in us will be going. So, get rid of that nasty stuff and become a vessel of the refreshing and love of Jesus and how He is pleasing to our Father. And as much as we are so pleasing, in us we will enjoy this, too :prayer: