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I didn't. I said when spelled in English...Joachim not Yehoyakim
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A new heresy???
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I didn't. I said when spelled in English...Joachim not Yehoyakim
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St John of Damascus says that both genealogies are of Joseph. His two fathers are brothers with the same mother who was widowed after giving birth to her first son, then remarried and gave birth to the second, one descended from David through Solomon and the other descended from David through Nathan.
One of the brothers married but died before producing an heir, so his brother raised up seed for him with his widow in accordance with the law. So Joseph was the legal son of the dead brother but the biological son of the other.
Church Tradition does give some other details such as Clopas being the brother of Joseph, and I'm pretty sure it gives the relationship of Joachim to the others but I haven't seen it in a while so I'm very sketchy on details. Salome, the wife of Zebedee and mother of James and John, is one of Joseph's children. That much I remember clearly
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- Mar 11, 2003
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Interesting! St John Chrysostom says the opposite and says it is Mary's bloodline. I think another early Church father also said that. Do you know what the general consensus is across the Church?St John of Damascus says that both genealogies are of Joseph. His two fathers are brothers with the same mother who was widowed after giving birth to her first son, then remarried and gave birth to the second, one descended from David through Solomon and the other descended from David through Nathan.
One of the brothers married but died before producing an heir, so his brother raised up seed for him with his widow in accordance with the law. So Joseph was the legal son of the dead brother but the biological son of the other.
Church Tradition does give some other details such as Clopas being the brother of Joseph, and I'm pretty sure it gives the relationship of Joachim to the others but I haven't seen it in a while so I'm very sketchy on details. Salome, the wife of Zebedee and mother of James and John, is one of Joseph's children. That much I remember clearly
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- Jan 26, 2013
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Sounds a bit gnostic to me. The only reason they seek to eliminate Mary would be to eliminate the humanity of Jesus. This is exactly what the gnostics did so they could disavow that Christ was both man and God. But if He was not one of us then He is not the Son of Man as well as the Son of God and mankind is still dead in our sins.
From here it's not a leap to say Jesus did not die on cross, which some claimed was impossible being the Son of God - a heresy later picked up by Islam who both rejected both that Jesus was the Son of God and He but only swooned on the cross.
John had a few words to say about these kind of shenanigans which adulterate the message of the Gospel Christ gave to us and handed down via apostolic witness.
- 1John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God,
- 1John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
- 2John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
In Christ,
John 17:20
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What they are saying is that He was like Adam, no earthly father or mother. He was still human like Adam.
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buzuxi02
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My (personal) belief is that both Joseph's and Cleopas eldest sons were named Jacob. Scripture mentions a James Junior (Mark 15:40) which i believe was Clopas first son. This reference to junior to distinguish from his older first cousin James the Lords brother. This would be a common way to distinguish the two in a close knit extended family. (I admit this theory probably doesnt completely agree with the hagiography)
It is common in these regions to name the son after the grandfather. Just like John the Baptist relatives were perplexed as to why they would name him John when no past family member had this name (LUKE 1:59-61)
Sure enough the father of Joseph and Cleopas was named Jacob (Matt 1:16)
Anyhow on the original topic it was common in the ancient church to believe Mary was of royal lineage as well
It is common in these regions to name the son after the grandfather. Just like John the Baptist relatives were perplexed as to why they would name him John when no past family member had this name (LUKE 1:59-61)
Sure enough the father of Joseph and Cleopas was named Jacob (Matt 1:16)
Anyhow on the original topic it was common in the ancient church to believe Mary was of royal lineage as well
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