rjs330

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SO I am the bride of Christ? I'm a man. Jesus was a man. Your view is messed up.

I’m deeply concerned about you with the same concern that God has. As your father, I promised you in marriage to one husband. I promised to present you as an innocent virgin to Christ himself. - 2 Corinthians 11:2 Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 11:2 - Common English Bible

Jesus referred to himself as the bridegroom. That's a husband and wife thing.

We need to conform our theology to scripture not the other way around.
 
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rjs330

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What passage is that from? Becasue my cousin
has two kids and they feel both their parents are
relevant. So the kids appreciate both parents but
God does not? That view sounds messed up.

It comes from the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. It can't be messed up if it's their teachings. It comes from scripture including the Old Testament. The Bible calls homosexuality a sin. It ALWAYS refers to marriage as husband and wife. God created male and female and refers to them as married. Because of that he NEVER mentions marriage or recognizes marriage as man and man or woman and woman. It's a sinful relationship.

I’m deeply concerned about you with the same concern that God has. As your father, I promised you in marriage to one husband. I promised to present you as an innocent virgin to Christ himself. - 2 Corinthians 11:2 Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 11:2 - Common English Bible
Jesus answered, “Haven’t you read that at the beginning the creator made them male and female?And God said, ‘Because of this a man should leave his father and mother and be joined together with his wife, and the two will be one flesh.’So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore, humans must not pull apart what God has put together.” - Matthew 19:4-6 Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 19:4-6 - Common English Bible

I’m passing on the Lord’s command to those who are married: A wife shouldn’t leave her husband,but if she does leave him, then she should stay single or be reconciled to her husband. And a man shouldn’t divorce his wife. - 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 - Common English Bible

Drink water from your own cistern, gushing water from your own well.Should your fountains flood outside, streams of water in the public squares?They are yours alone, not for you as well as strangers.May your spring be blessed. Rejoice in the wife of your youth.She is a lovely deer, a graceful doe. Let her breasts intoxicate you all the time; always be drunk on her love. - Proverbs 5:15-19 Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 5:15-19 - Common English Bible

It's a man and woman marriage that God created and recognizes. Not same sex.

So divorce among same sex partners is not sinful because their marriage is not recognized as legitimate by God. Their relationship is sinful.
 
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rjs330

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Some children's sex is determined by the parents becasue the babies
have ambiguous sex DNA and or Sex organs.

So which sex is the one God approves of for marriage purposes?

If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births.
How common is intersex?

Only around 2% of the population is homosexual. So apparently all these intersex people have managed to be okay. Unless of course you are claiming the homosexual population were all intersex and the parents and doctors got it wrong. Only a man and woman's marriage is recognized by Scripture.

We need to conform our theology to what God says and not the other way around.
 
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SkyWriting

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Only around 2% of the population is homosexual. So apparently all these intersex people have managed to be okay. Unless of course you are claiming the homosexual population were all intersex and the parents and doctors got it wrong. Only a man and woman's marriage is recognized by Scripture.

Again, what passages have you gotten these facts from?
But I agree, of my close 50 family members, only one is confirmed gay.
So how does God not recognise the marriage, but the family and her kids do?
 
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Because of that he NEVER mentions marriage or recognizes marriage as man and man or woman and woman. It's a sinful relationship.

Unless you are gay, you have no idea what "sins" are committed.
Sins are against God, not against you.

I'm not confident that you can imagine being gay in a hetrosexual marriage
but it would feel just like you having sex with a gay man. Perhaps you
might get used to that becuase other people, I said it was the scriptural
thing to do?
 
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SkyWriting

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Jesus referred to himself as the bridegroom. That's a husband and wife thing.

So if I'm a man, and the bride, then that is a homosexual relationship?
You said that was not approved right?
Jesus considers me his bride?
 
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SkyWriting

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We are the bride of Christ. He is the bridegroom. We are the church and are referred to as "her".

A husband is the head of his wife like Christ is head of the church, that is, the savior of the body.So wives submit to their husbands in everything like the church submits to Christ.As for husbands, love your wives just like Christ loved the church and gave himself for her.He did this to make her holy by washing her in a bath of water with the word.He did this to present himself with a splendid church, one without any sort of stain or wrinkle on her clothes, but rather one that is holy and blameless. - Ephesians 5:23-27 Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 5:23-27 - Common English Bible

So it seems that gender is not even an issue in marriages, is what you are saying.
That's pretty basic stuff! I hadn't really considered that.
 
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rjs330

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Unless you are gay, you have no idea what "sins" are committed.
Sins are against God, not against you.

I'm not confident that you can imagine being gay in a hetrosexual marriage
but it would feel just like you having sex with a gay man. Perhaps you
might get used to that becuase other people, I said it was the scriptural
thing to do?
No I can't imagine that, but that doesn't change that practicing homosexuality is sin. It doesn't change the fact that marriage is scriptural as between man and woman. You can continue to ignore that if you wish, but that doesn't change what God says. It fits with your theology which is based upon what you wish to believe rather than on what scripture says.

Now we know that the Law is good if used appropriately.We understand this: the Law isn’t established for a righteous person but for people who live without laws and without obeying any authority. They are the ungodly and the sinners. They are people who are not spiritual, and nothing is sacred to them. They kill their fathers and mothers, and murder others.They are people who are sexually unfaithful, and people who have intercourse with the same sex. They are kidnappers, liars, individuals who give false testimonies in court, and those who do anything else that is opposed to sound teaching.Sound teaching agrees with the glorious gospel of the blessed God that has been trusted to me. - 1 Timothy 1:8-11 Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 1:8-11 - Common English Bible

Don’t you know that people who are unjust won’t inherit God’s kingdom? Don’t be deceived. Those who are sexually immoral, those who worship false gods, adulterers, both participants in same-sex intercourse,thieves, the greedy, drunks, abusive people, and swindlers won’t inherit God’s kingdom.That is what some of you used to be! But you were washed clean, you were made holy to God, and you were made right with God in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. - 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 - Common English Bible
Conform your theology to what the Bible says.
 
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rjs330

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So if I'm a man, and the bride, then that is a homosexual relationship?
You said that was not approved right?
Jesus considers me his bride?
Wow did you ever fall off the rails on this one. We are not individually the bride of Christ. The church as a whole is referred to as a "she" not a he. Christ is the bridegroom and the church is the bride. It's not about you or I as individual persons. This doctrine since it refers to she it's a confirmation that marriage is between male and female which confirms to what Christ said about the creation of male and female and about marriage being between them.
 
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rjs330

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Again, what passages have you gotten these facts from?
But I agree, of my close 50 family members, only one is confirmed gay.
So how does God not recognise the marriage, but the family and her kids do?

God doesn't because it's a sinful relationship. God approves of a marriage between a man and woman. Do you actually consider that God approves of a sinful relationship?

Just because the family does doesn't mean God does. The family may not consider divorce a sin either, but that doesn't mean God goes along. It's not a sin against me it's a sin against God. Since this topic was about divorce and homosexuals and sin it is appropriate to talk about what God recognizes not man.
 
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SkyWriting

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God approves of a marriage between a man and woman. Do you actually consider that God approves of a sinful relationship?

Did I say she was a Christian? I did not. There is that log in your eye again
keeping you from seeing clearly.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do
and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Romans 2:1
You therefore have no excuse, you who pass judgment on another. For on whatever grounds you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

It says you do.

Romans 14:10
Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

It says you do.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the proper time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

It says you're not waiting.

2 Peter 2:21
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them.

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

John 9:41
"If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
Sin is only between God and the individual. It is invisible to you.
 
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SkyWriting

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Wow did you ever fall off the rails on this one. We are not individually the bride of Christ. The church as a whole is referred to as a "she" not a he. Christ is the bridegroom and the church is the bride. It's not about you or I as individual persons. This doctrine since it refers to she it's a confirmation that marriage is between male and female which confirms to what Christ said about the creation of male and female and about marriage being between them.

Still, the relationship is gender neutral. Me being a guy and all.
You brought it up and I see from your example that marriage
is gender neutral. It's about relationships. Paul even suggests
that leaders not have spouses. That is a very gender neutral of a life.

He suggests that the work and all the people be the spouse. Also very neutral.
 
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SkyWriting

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It doesn't change the fact that marriage is scriptural as between man and woman.

And between Jesus and His bride, the church.
Which is not gender related at all, as you point out.
I'm sure you've read that "Love Wins" such imagined conflicts.
 
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SkyWriting

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No I can't imagine that, but that doesn't change that practicing homosexuality is sin. It doesn't change the fact that marriage is scriptural as between man and woman.

The issue was that Gay marriage was a sin and offensive to God and I asked for the passage on that.

I build up my neighbors, by the way. Gay or not.

I treat them as I like them to treat me.

Mathew 7: 12
In everything then, do unto others as you would have them
do unto you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
 
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rjs330

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Did I say she was a Christian? I did not. There is that log in your eye again
keeping you from seeing clearly.

James 4:17
So whoever knows the right thing to do
and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Luke 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Romans 2:1
You therefore have no excuse, you who pass judgment on another. For on whatever grounds you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

It says you do.

Romans 14:10
Why, then, do you judge your brother? Or why do you belittle your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.

It says you do.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the proper time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

It says you're not waiting.

2 Peter 2:21
It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and turned away from the holy commandment passed on to them.

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

John 9:41
"If you were blind," Jesus replied, "you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains."

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
Sin is only between God and the individual. It is invisible to you.

I've already posted we are not to judge this outside the church. Its irrelevant whether your family member is gay and married. He is lost because he is lost not because he is gay. As long as he has not accepted Christ as his Lord and savior he's lost. Homosexuality is only a part of his being lost. He can be married or whatever. It does not matter. He could be straight and still be just as lost. This topic was about those in the church and those who have accepted Christ. What do they do? Can they get divorced. The answer is what the Bible says. Marriage is between a man and woman therefore they can get divorced and not sin. Because being together as a gay couple is sinful. In the church we can see that.

Judging the world is useless. They are judge's already. They just need to know the gospel. Individual sins they commit and the type they are doesn't matter.

So no there is no log in my eye. I was not judging the family member who is an unbeliever.

And you can continue to quote scriptures out of context all you want. I've already shown you what the scriptures say in context.

Confine your beliefs to what the Bible actually says. What you are doing is twisting scripture because you ignore context.
 
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rjs330

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The issue was that Gay marriage was a sin and offensive to God and I asked for the passage on that.

I build up my neighbors, by the way. Gay or not.

I treat them as I like them to treat me.

Mathew 7: 12
In everything then, do unto others as you would have them
do unto you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
I gave you scriptures that declair homosexual relationships are sinful. Did you ignore those or are you making the claim that homosexual marriage is a celibate one?
Again to that kind of relationship involving unbelievers doesn't matter. They are lost anyway. Once you become a believer you must leave your sin behind as I have shown in scripture.

And I agree we should treat the lost like Jesus did. I'm not for rejecting the lost. How else are we supposed to reach them if we reject them? How are we supposed to share the good news of the gospel if we treat them as if they have some sort contagious disease? I would welcome unbelievers of all kinds into my church. I wouldn't sugar coat the gospel, but I wouldn't single people out either. I don't support the not selling cakes or flowers to gay people because I don't think it's loving or kind.
 
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SkyWriting

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I gave you scriptures that declair homosexual relationships are sinful.

The word "Homosexual" is not in scripture.
Homosexual partnerships are not in scripture.
There are a number of passages regarding
love, commitment, monogamy, and treating others
with honor which God has a strong commitment
to promoting and these override your vital concerns.

Mathew 7: 12
In everything then, do unto others as you would have them
do unto you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets

Do you see how your personal sexual preferences are left out of
the above passage? I don't see how you can squeeze them in either.
No mention of scolding either brothers or outsiders.
It seems that one must stick to their own preferences in choosing a partner.
"as you would have them do unto you."

Mat 22:37 Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’d
38This is the first and greatest commandment.
39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’e

Matthew 22:40
All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commandments."

Luke 6:31
Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Romans 13:8
Be indebted to no one, except to one another in love, for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the Law.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the Law.

Galatians 5:14
The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

James 2:8
If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.
 
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rjs330

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Homosexual is a modern word that we use to describe same sex partnerships. Alcoholic isn't a word used in scripture either, neither is the word canibalism or the word hilarious. We could go on and on with modern words that are not used in the scriptures that are used to describe behaviors What IS in scripture are the scriptural words used to describe certain behaviors as bad, sinful or shameful. You are grasping at straws. I have already posted scriptures that say homosexual behavior is sinful and those that practice it are not going to inherit the kingdom of God.

Feel free to not like that. God doesn't care if we don't like his ways, he just expects us to follow them.

And those live verses you posted have nothing to do with whether practicing homosexuality is sinful. Just like they have nothing to do with whether or not adultery or thievery or lying is sinful. They do have to do with the fact that we need to.love on another. Doing unto others is important. Worldly people need to be treated with kindness. I don't want to March around with "God hates...." Signs. How is that love? Don't attack the sinner, just share with them the gospel of the Good News of Christ.

Remember it is those INSIDE the church we are to help to live a godly life because that IS love. But even in that we are to do so with love and grace and humility and without hypocrisy. I don't need to quote the passages again so I won't.

Conform your theology to scripture rather than the other way around.
 
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I have already posted scriptures that say homosexual behavior is sinful and those that practice it are not going to inherit the kingdom of God.

The behavior mentioned is infidelity to ones partner and loose morality.
This is why using a term about sexual orientation cannot be substituted.
In context, the issue is loose sexual morality. You have changed the
Bible to read sexual preferences, which is incorrect.

How do I know this? Becasue the handful of gay people in my neighbor
are not going to Hell. I know their morality and their behaviors from living
with them as my neighbors for over a decade. Who they choose to live with
does not offend God or neighbors, or children and even a priest.
They only offend those who misapply the scriptures and apply bible tracts
to life like they are handing out parking tickets.

It's very simple. You have added "Homosexual" to scripture.
In the original language strange flesh means infidelity with ones neighbor.
 
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